The effect of video games on violence

[Benfea]

http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/articles/violence/violence.htm

Can we please stop using this fakey "values issue"? I'm talking to you, Hillary.

[sgxnk]

1. TIPPER STARTED IT nt

[Benfea]

2. I hate her even more.

Of course, that's probably related to my being a Jello Biafra fan. Through Biafra, I know things about Tipper that most people don't, such as that Tipper has in the past claimed that rock and roll is part of a Satanic plot to corrupt the nation's youth.

[sgxnk]

3. not to name drop

but i produced a jello concert once

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. I made Jello Shots once

bad gig.








:rofl:

[sgxnk]

8. been there, done that

been there, done that, got the IV

actually, that was kamikazes i think

[Downtown Hound]

59. I ate some jello once

Cherry, pretty good stuff. :9

[Benfea]

9. That would explain the Tipper hate.

Coolness!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. She seems pretty sane

I've seen several interviews. Just doesn't strike me as the type. :shrug:

[Benfea]

7. She had a man thrown in jail for dirty album art.

She was a driving force behind the PMRC. She was the reason we had those ridiculous hearings in the Senate with people like the Twisted Sister front man.

Sure, she can seem sane when she has to, but as far as I'm concerned, she's a paranoid ultraconservative nutjob of the first order who's been putting on a front for her husband's sake.

[DanCa]

10. May I have a link to this please.

Thank you very much.

[Benfea]

12. Don't have one handy.

But when Tipper challenged Jello on this point on TV, Jello whipped out a newspaper article and put it in her face.

[DanCa]

16. If you find one could you please send it too me.

The people that I argue demand that I have confirmations sources. Thanks very much. Keep on gaming. :hug:

[Benfea]

27. Transcript of her debate with Jello on the Oprah show

http://lemming.mahost.org/library/jello_oprah.txt

The above shows not only that she took credit for having a man thrown in jail for a dirty album sleeve (and then lied about it on national TV), but shows her credentials with extreme right wing Christian conservatives in her work with the PMRC.

Of course, the simple fact that she co-founded the PMRC destroys her liberal credentials in my book. The PMRC was a right-wing Christian nut job operation from the word "go."

In case you're still not convinced, the thing that inspired Tipper to create the PMRC was her daughter listening to a song with masturbatory references. Conservative Christians are pretty much the only ones I know of who would get their panties in a wad over masturbation (the Bible's against it, don't ya know?).

[DanCa]

29. Thank you copied and saved

I like to have references when I argue with people.

[Benfea]

31. Next time google it yourself, lazypants! :P -NT

[DanCa]

32. LOL

:thumbsup:

[fujiyama]

13. Twisted Sister was a real band eh?

Shows how out of the loop I am. I saw that old flick "Flight of the Navigator" with a young Sarah Jessica Parker, and she said she went to a Twisted Sister concert.

Then again, when those hearings were going on I was probably 8 so I wasn't paying any attention and I didn't have cable TV at the time.

And I agree that Hillary is being a damn fool regarding this video game violence. In this case, it's even more ridiculous than Tipper's crusade since there were no labels at the time. Now with labels warning parents pretty clearly of objectionable content, this whole fuss seems especially crazy.

[Benfea]

17. Except that the labels aren't necessarily a good thing.

There are counties that ban the sale of any music recording that includes certain labels, so just as PMRC opponents predicted, the labeling system has resulted in a loss of First Ammendment rights.

[sgxnk]

19. twisted sister

twisted sister was an 80's metal hair band

their most recent fame was playing on ahnold's tour

he adopted twisted sister's 80's theme song "we're not gonna take it" as his and they played it at his rallies

the lead singer (and i use that term loosely) also wrote a movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124102/

[Lautremont]

33. "Movie" is the term you should use loosely in this case. (nt)

[sgxnk]

57. i never saw it

looked too stupid to rent

[DanCa]

22. You got a point I mean looks at who runs the FCC

Hell there are real good clean songs that wont get radio play because they clear channel doesn't like there contact. I.E. Political message. I do like it when they include liner notes however because it gives me a chance to learn the song better on my harp. But thats a different topic entirely.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Oh, yes it was.

The hair band Twisted Sister got in consider hot water by the Blue Hairs for their video "We're Not Going to Take It" about a rebellious teenager playing his stereo to loud and his Homer Simpson-esque father demanding he "turn that racket down." The father character got a face full of pie, fell down the stairs, etc. in a lot of Three Stooges style humorous violence. The video, the Blue Hairs contended, amounted to the encouragement for children to assault their parents.

Twisted Sister can also be seen on the cult hit "Peewee's Big Adventure." They're filming a new video on Paramount Studios while they're rudely interrupted by Peewee being chased by Godzilla and Santa Claus. They always struck me as a band with a sense of humor. Something that's in a short supply.

Lieberman and Tipper go way back, and it shouldn't be forgotten. Lieberman was in that infamous PMRC panel along with Tipper, along with Elizabeth Dole and Jim Baker's wife.

[Tenseiga]

115. Quoted For Truth

She was a driving force behind the PMRC. She was the reason we had those ridiculous hearings in the Senate with people like the Twisted Sister front man.

Sure, she can seem sane when she has to, but as far as I'm concerned, she's a paranoid ultraconservative nutjob of the first order who's been putting on a front for her husband's sake.

Thank you for remembering

As to the subject of the "link" between videogame violence and real-life violence, that may be the case for a small percentage of gamers who can't tell the difference between life and a game, but for the most part gaming is just a fun way to get out some pent-up aggression.

I still fire up Unreal Tournament once in a while to blow off some steam. Flak Cannon rampages are quite fun.

[IndyOp]

36. Bull. Find the quote for this - in context....

"Tipper has in the past claimed that rock and roll is part of a Satanic plot."

It seems far more likely that Tipper claimed that music with violent lyrics was not, as some people argued, part of a Satanic plot - but can have neagtive effects.

ANY exposure to violence - through war, parental abuse, TV, movies, music, videogames - lessen our revulsion to violence and can have negative effects.

[Benfea]

50. If your reasoning is correct...

...then why are video games having the opposite effect on juvenile violence from what people like you predict?

You can call "bull" all you want, but the only bull I smell is coming from your posts.

[IndyOp]

66. You did not provide the quote from Tipper. (n/t)

[Drifter]

75. Frank Zappa ....

had the BEST response to the "Rock music influences people" argument.

I here by paraphrase (poorly)

If (rock) music actually influences people, then because 95% of songs are about love, you would think everyone would be falling in love with everyone else.

Cheers
Drifter

and Yes Tipper did start all of this non-sense.

[shadowknows69]

97. Well, that must've been when Tipper was a tripper.

Come on Al, Share some of the chronic with the wife and play her some Dead tapes.

[blues90]

18. I'm not for banning things but

I am for applying common sense . As with everything there is on earth that is money to be made . But at some point don't ya think things have gone a bit far ?

I don't think these games that promote killing really do anyone any good , it is certainly not the sort of thing i would bring home for a child to play . Just because it is offered for sale or people claim their children had these games and turned out just fine this is their opinion . There are much more usefull ways for a child to spend their time like learning something that has a end result of bringing anything of actual use in their lives and the lives of others . Same thing with the old toy guns , stupid idea , I had them and never had a real gun but I can't say that even the play time used did'nt effect me in some way in life that I am not aware of now . No I have not killed anyone but I may have been more successful in a positive manner if I used the time wisely .

It is just one more way to produce a profit for some company . not much different really than selling cigarettes on adds years ago . These games had to alter the mind some because if I came across one when I was a child I would have had nightmares as most children in my day would have experienced . Call it desensitized , yes it does do that .

[DanCa]

25. But to play devil's advocate

I don't think that the government should tell anyone how to raise a kid. I have seen my nephew play games that I think are too old and violent for him, Yet I fault his parents for not being more involved.

[blues90]

34. I wouldn't say the government should decide

I can't say it's fair for parents to have to deal with sorting through all the crap people who desire to make a profit putting out on the market these sorts of games either , Parents have enough work as it is . Make it the responsiblity of these corporations and their staff to develope a conscience . Someone has to test and inspect the food we eat and the medications so they pass then do the same thing with crap before it's allowed to be sold then there is not need to censor it . Sure parents do have the responsibility to raise their children and there are many who don't do such a good job ,it does not help to add more to the task . We have requirements to drive a car so why not for crap as these games ? Cars have to be considered safe before they hit the highway .

What do these sorts of games promote is what needs to be asked , they certainly don't promote a good sense of judgement or respect for any lifeform .

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. What the games promote...

is nobody's business but the developer's and the player's.

[Ron Green]

64. This response has the moral clarity of a Libertarian one, but

the mental environment, which includes video games that are advertised and marketed worldwide, is partly the responsibility of other social institutions, such as governments, foundations, volunteer groups, churches, nonprofits, think tanks . . . AS WELL AS the free market.

To say that a laissez-faire agreement must exist between any marketer of psychodynamic activities and any user, without input or interference from other entities, is to abandon our mental environment, and our public health, to anyone trying make money.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Bullshit.

Governments, foundations, volunteer groups, churches, non-profits and think tanks don't have any more business with what happens in video games then they have business with what goes on in books, movies, TV shows, plays, or any other sort of creative outlet.

[Ron Green]

69. Libertarian crap.

You'd like for it to be a black-and-white censorship, First Amendment issue, but it's not. It's more complicated than that, although free-market bosses want us to think it's simple.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. I ain't no stinking Libertarian.

It's clearly a first amendment issue.

Imagine Congress setting up a panel to question the violent and sexual material in books, replete with recommendations for a book rating system, and felonies for book sellers who sell the wrong books to minors.

[Ron Green]

72. You've jumped straight to felonies.

My point is that it takes not just government, but lots of other institutions to keep a rein on the free market. What does a 12-year-old kid want? Lots of stuff that's not good for him, before he can understand how to make sense of it in the world. And the market will gladly give it to him, whether it's tobacco or video games. Only by putting the brakes on the market will people be given the chance to make better decisions about their physical and mental health. It's all about education, and we have chosen Television in this country as Curriculum #1.

I'm not advocating censorship. I'm calling for acknowledgment that public health will never be well served by the market.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. I didn't jump straight to felonies.

That's actual legislation that's been proposed.

It's good that you're not advocating censorship, so what are you actually advocating?

[Ron Green]

80. Education.

As long as people are convinced that harmful things are actually good things, we've got public health problems. The Market is never going to stop this convincing process. The Church will preach and prescribe, but has no power. Only the State has the power to make law about what is actually done, and although lots of people around here decry the influence of the Church upon the State, the real influence is the Market, especially corporations whose lifeblood is the continued pain and ignorance of a needy population of consumers.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. What sort of education?

You're going to have the state educate children as to which games are acceptable and which games are degenerate?

[Ron Green]

90. The first lesson would be that "virtual reality" is not the same

as real reality. Why are kids addicted to video games, cigarettes, brand name clothes, alcohol, crystal meth, junk food, and "bling-bling"? Because advertisers have convinced them that buying a product is an easy way to avoid the hard work of building relationships and learning who they really are.

I'm not nearly as afraid of the Government (or the churches, for that matter) as I am of the advertisers.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. Really? And you think churches are helping people distinguish shit from

shinola?

In this country?

Wow, man. I don't.

[Ron Green]

96. No, not all.

I don't trust the fundamentalist, fear-based, beady-eyed, sweaty-upper-lipped proselytizers one bit to tell the truth, or even to want to seek it out. However, there are still plenty of tolerant and scholarly churches who walk their talk in community service, and offer young people an alternative to the cynical world view of the advertisers.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. I actually agree, although I certainly don't see church as the only way.

I got it following the Grateful Dead around in my youth.

But key to all this is allowing people to grow as individuals, whatever that means, and hope that they find their way to deeper meaning. Offer alternatives, for sure.

The problem with our current strip-mallified culture isn't too many choices, per se, it's too few. Grow up wedged between a Walmart and a Target, and you're not going to have too much assosciation with the word "community", are you?

I think the answer is to build networks of community. Build organic, real alternatives to the phony, bogus parts of culture. It's hard, but weeds grow through concrete, too.

But waging war on videogames, trying to "ban" anything- I think it's counterproductive. And there may be more going on, deeper meaning in some of these videogames, than people are aware of.

I think the answer to these problems -to most problems, actually- is MORE freedom, not less- freedom for people to make different choices. Choosing between Wal-Mart and Target, or whether to eat at McDonald's or Wendy's, or to worship the Southern Baptist Jesus or the Protestant Jesus, aint a whole big range of choice, in my book.

[Ron Green]

105. OK, now you're getting down to brass tacks -

I like what you say about building networks of community, but who's going to pay for it? The corporations? Nope. Only foundation and grant money, some of it from the government, are going to go against the cynical world view of the advertisers.

More freedom is what gave us Wal-Mart, because people responded to low price without thinking of the consequences. We have dozens of brands of toothpaste in this country and two political parties. It ought to be the other way around, but political parties are hard and buying toothpaste is fun.

I don't want to wage war on video games, or on any products for that matter. If there's a war to be waged, it's on the idea that products bring happiness and people are to be used.

[Warren DeMontague]

107. Perhaps. But I don't see it as so black and white.

First off, I don't think more freedom gave us Wal-mart. I think a particular stripe of freedom gave us Wal-Mart. The kind where corporations have almost unlimited rights, and individuals have fewer and fewer.

I don't know about government getting in the community-building business; but I note that where I live, local governments have been successful in keeping out Wal-Mart and big box stores. I think that's a place where local decision making is legitimate- I also think our system should be geared towards making it easier for small artists and craftspeople to sell their goods, not harder.

I think what we have now is far from a level playing field, or real laissez-faire free enterprise. We have a crony capitalist system heavily weighted towards big corporations and the old boy network.

There is freedom for individuals and there is freedom for Corporations, and they are not the same thing- just like small-l or left libertarianism is not the same as big-L "Libertarianism".

And I agree with you about the limited political choices. It's an unfortunate consequence of our system, which is not designed for maximum freedom and representation (the fact that 400,000 Wyoming residents control the same 1/50th of the US Senate as do 33 Million Californians bears that out) but much of which is done because "we've always done it that way".

This may be something of the long view, but if you want to wage war on the idea that "products bring happiness and people are to be used", perhaps you should wage war on the idea that these things need "waging war" on. Not that they're not limited, even detrimental viewpoints- but in the end, they are self-defeating and by definition empty. No action on your part is really required, imho, certainly not in a "warfare" sense. Living an alternative might be the best response.

Do you know the Zen parable about the goose in the bottle?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

92. Jesus fucking Christ.

Do you really think people who play video games, even the little kids, don't understand that they aren't real?

What's next, disclaimers on Tom and Jerry cartoons that say "no actual animals were harmed for the filming of this cartoon?"

[Ron Green]

98. It's not about "understanding" that they're real or not, it's about

choosing to live real life or choosing to live a life inside a game. Lots of kids don't have much of a chance at the real thing; they're in an electronic media environment from the time they're born, 'cause that's a comfortable place to be, and 'cause the technology is just there. The hard work of being alone, or building real relationships with real people, can be avoided indefinitely.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. ...said some guy on an internet messageboard.

[Warren DeMontague]

101. Ouch!

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. Tee hee.

;)

[Warren DeMontague]

103. You cannot go against nature... 'Cuz if you do...

going against nature, is part of nature too.

This is where we are. This is what we're becoming. We can grow with it or rail against it, but it's doubtful we're going to get rid of it.

[Benfea]

116. Good gravy.

Study after study has been done on the effects of violent media on kids, and by and large they conclude that there is no correlation between violent media and violent acts. This is true for rock and roll, action movies, heavy metal, horror movies, rap, and yes, video games.

This despite the fact that people like you desperately want to link violent media to juvenile crime.

And here we have not a study by psychologists but government statistics proving precisely the same point, and you still insist on clinging to a conclusion that has been debunked. What is so alluring about this particular piece of bad logic that would cause you to fly in the face of a mountain of evidence like some creationist, geocentrist or platygaeanist?

[Ron Green]

117. Are you responding to something I wrote?

people like you desperately want to link violent media to juvenile crime.

Nowhere did I link any media to any crime. My point is simply that market-driven advertising is unhealthy for the growth of humans, being designed as it is to appeal directly to fears in a dishonest way. And that it's important that non-commercial institutions, such as governments, schools, foundations, volunteer groups and many others, counteract the bullshit that advertisers promote.

I'm not going to refer to you as "people like you," Asshole.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. I'll take Libertarian Crap over Nanny State Poop, Control Freak Ka-Ka,

or Would-be Authoritarian Doody just about any day.

[readmoreoften]

77. Well with that kind of extremist logic...

One can easily say that anyone who promotes banning the content of an art form (and game creation is an art form) has the moral clarity of an Authoritarian argument.

We all know very well that there are left-libertarians and right-libertarians. So the word libertarian is hardly a smear in my book.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Thank You!

Amazing how often the "l" word gets tossed around here like it's synonymous with "baby eater"

[Warren DeMontague]

85. If it is "libertarian" to say that the government shouldn't be involved in

monitoring the "mental environment" of consenting adults (or, to put it another way, the government shouldn't be in the thought control business)

...then mark me down as a libertarian -ooh! such an insult!- on this one.

[Ron Green]

104. So you're satisfied to let the advertisers run the "thought control"

business? That's what they want, and that's what they do. I'm simply hoping for entities other than the corporations to have a chance at dispensing information about what is good and what is harmful to us as people and as citizens.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. I agree with that. The best answer to thought control

is out of control thought.

[Benfea]

30. Look at the damn numbers in the article.

The very strongest argument you could make about video games and violence is that video games have no identifiable effect on juvenile violence in the overall population. On the flip side, there is a strong argument that could be made that video games have quite the opposite effect from what you claim. Perhaps they allow children to vent aggressive tendencies in a safely fake environment.

If you would like to go back to the days when crime rates amoung children were higher, then by all means, let's pass laws to restrict video game violence. After all, we have to protect children from... uh... not going to jail? Not committing crimes? The evidence simply does not back your flawed world view.

[blues90]

47. what artical ?

[Benfea]

49. The one I linked in the original post.

Yeesh.

[blues90]

63. that artical is only a promotion

Look , play your killing game videos , just do people a favor who don't like cig smoke blown in their face or any other activity that is determined to be a problem . Why not instead of playing games that promote violence insist that someone with a progessive brain create a game that promotes peace and solutions that don't include violent acts maybe that would sell and end this madness for a change .

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. The article was a legitimate one.

With all this talk of "progressive brains" why are you dismissing it because you don't like what it has to say?

Oh, and it's spelled "article."

[YOY]

38. You don't game, do you?

Just curious.

[DanCa]

6. smoking bans

It's all part of the vicious cycle that happens when you start banning things that people say aren't good for you. Is soda pop next? I mean it has no nutritional value. That's why I hate bans of any kind.

[fujiyama]

15. Difference is

smoking can actually affect other people's health through second hand smoke.

Video game violence has no proven effect on either the player or others.

[DanCa]

20. hmm ......

point taken. I think the point is that I don't like government telling people what to do. My analogy cocked up my point. No harm no fowl?

[sgxnk]

21. the problem

with smoking bans is that they are too restrictive on the rights of private businesses

i FULLY support smoking bans in PUBLIC buildings . 100%

bans, like the state of WA, that bans all smoking in all PRIVATE businesses is exactly the sort of nannystate authoritarian rubbish that drives me nuts

private businesses should be free to allow or disallow smoking as they please

private customers are free to patronize or not, businesses

this is a classic example of my principles being AGAINST my self interest. but i don't think politics should be about self interest

i detest cigarette smoke with every fibre of my soul. i HATE it

but i would never want govt. to tell any private business that they cannot allow smoking within that business

WA's ban extends even 25 ft AROUND these businesses

it is so patently nannystate absurd

and SO waashington big mommy govt.

[DanCa]

23. Thats my problem

I also don't want to put someone thru the pain of withdrawl.

[femrap]

42. I read a LTTE once from a man who

thought all of these governmental safety laws were bad...his logic? Stupid people deserve to die.

Corporations make lots of money selling violence and death....and stupid people will buy it.

[KyuzoGator]

11. I grew up on Doom and Duke Nukem...

...I think I turned out pretty normal. I even own firearms and haven't shot anyone yet.

[DanCa]

14. My dungeon and dragons gaming never turned me against the church

It was the fundie morality policie who did that. :hug: JK kidding.
Hmm one of these days I got to dust off my hero click collection.

[YOY]

41. But, but, but...Jack Chick says

It's teh preferred rekruwtment fer teh satanists!

(Parody and not the original hateful BS)

http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/

[walldude]

24. Irresponsible parents looking for someone to do

their job for them. Been going on forever. Comics, dime novels, TV, Movies, Rock & Roll, anything these people can find to blame for the shitty job they do raising their kids. My kids are 12 and 10 and they play many "M" rated games, I check them out first and let the kids have at it. Crooks and Liars had an old video of Zappa on Crossfire up yesterday, you should watch him kick ass on the PMRC.

[jerry611]

26. The internet is next

There is already a growing movement to restict and censor the internet in the name of protecting the children and encouraging family values.

[walldude]

60. Yeah only this time the government stepped into the wrong realm

The net is the realm of geeks and hackers. Only in the last few years has it become mainstream. No matter what they do there will always be a way for people in the know to get around it. It's kind of like the whole Napster thing. Pirates and hackers have been swapping shit for years, before the net we used BBS's. Once someone came up with a way to dumb down file swapping the mainstream got ahold of it and the government stepped in. But the true pirates and hackers never used Napster, they don't use Bit Torrent and no matter what the government does the hackers and pirates will always be one step ahead of them. I'm not to worried about the net.

[rman]

37. Our proto-fascist leaders looking for ways to oppress us,

citing reasons for it that will undoubtedly be supported by some segments of the population.
It's like the prohibition, and the over-the-top smoking bans.

[populistdriven]

28. K&R by a gamer

[mykpart]

35. I wonder what video games Al Capone and John Dillinger played.

Oh, well, maybe it was the hip hop or gangsta rap or hard rock music that made them go bad.

[readmoreoften]

78. I remember reading that Vlad the Impaler

was really into Pole Position. Go figure.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. Post of the day.

:rofl:

[semillama]

95. heck, post of the WEEK

and one of the best puns I've seen in a while!

[Chiyo-chichi]

94. LOL. I woulda guessed it was Castlevania.

[YOY]

39. and the Freeps think she's a 'liberal'

Dumbasses...

So , Video games cause violence in kids and not poverty and lack of education...

[RedStateShame]

40. Still not as big a violent influence as a war-mongering president.

[Javaman]

43. There you go! Video games are the root of all evil....

(I wrote this a while back)

You know I was just saying to a friend while I was playing grand theft auto, "you know, I have this crazy urge to go out to kill and main people souly for my own enjoyment, what do you think, bob?"

Bob thought for a moment and said, "well, dave, I have had this unquenchable thirst for blood lately, as well, and I believe that a little mayhem and destruction are in order."

So bob and I walked out to the car, pumped up with excitement from our afternoon playing grand theft auto and filled with delusions of grandeur, we hit the road with a mission.

As bob and I casually mowed down one pedestrian after another, I turned to him, mid killing spree, and said, "you know bob, I have been thinking, do you think it's the failure of society that has turned us to this life of mayhem? Or do you think it's the failure of strong parental images, guidelines and lack boundaries set for us that has lead us down this road?"

We both momentarily chuckled at my pun, but bob thought for a moment, looking but not really "seeing" as one innocent person flew over our hood after another, then turned to me thoughtfully and said, "you know dave, you might just have a point there, I feel that if my parents were more like parents and not wanting to be my "best friend" (bob loves doing that finger thing for parentheses), I would have had the structure in my life that I so desperately crave on a deeper emotional level".

I really enjoyed bobs introspective moments that allow me to explore the deeper issues of life. "I concur", I stated and slammed the breaks on the car, just short of a family of 5 in the middle of shopping mall.

We exited our vehicle and turned ourselves in. We both felt better at taking responsibility for our actions.

Now as bob and I sit in our maximum security cell here in texas awaiting our death in the gas chamber, I look back and think of all the errors I have made. But also at the irony. bob and I killed people and now we are being killed to show that killing is wrong. Life is just so kooky, ain't it?

[BoneDaddy]

44. Absolutely

Video games do not cause violence, nor does Dungeons and Dragons and any other form of child hood expression.

When Columbine occurred, I remember Clinton saying "we must teach our children to handle conflict without violence". At that time we were bombing both Bosnia and Iraq.... GW has made this so much worse with his pre-emptive war strategy.

Folks, it ain't the video games... it is our violent culture.

[donsu]

45. it's not a fakey issue - violent games teach violence

nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Absolutely. They're disgraceful.

If you think that's bad, consider this horrible thing called "imagination."

Why, back when I was a kid, we "imagined" to be fascistic law enforcement officers and purposefully went around "pretending" to commit genocide against the indigenous Native American problem.

I blame "Cowboys and Indians" for WWII.

[Benfea]

51. Violent games teach violence? Really?

If that is the case, then why has juvenile crime gone down with the increase in video game play by teens and youngsters? If your premise were true, shouldn't we see the exact opposite thing happening in the data?

Your twisted logic doesn't fit the facts. Congratulations, you are now qualified to go work for Kent Hovind.

[donsu]

53. show the stats that say juvenile crime is down please

nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. It's in the OP.

Geez. And they say the people who play games don't know how to read.

:eyes:

[donsu]

61. seeing where the article came from I didn't read all of it - but now I

have and - like I'd believe anything that came out of the neo con's govt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Ah ha.

So you asked for statistics, and now you don't believe them because they come from the Department of Justice.

And since that's the government, you don't believe it because the conservatives are in charge of the government.

Funny that you don't trust that, but you believe the rather loony conservative idea that video games promote violence.

[GirlinContempt]

113. It's a catch 22

if the statistics came from an entertainment company, they'd be biased. If they come from the government, it's a neocon ploy (despite them dating back to before this admin), and good luck finding anyone outside of that who cares enough to do their own polls accurately.

[NoodleyAppendage]

56. Or, they could be an outlet for agressive behavior...

The argument against videogames is the same one used against pornography. Europeans have the lowest crime rates in the world, yet they have access to the same videogames and more access to pornography. Why would it be different than the US? You need to remember that these anti-videogame studies are limited in their generalizability and there is something special about US problems relative to the rest of the world.

J

[CabalPowered]

71. Maybe at a younger age but as 30 yr old gamer

I've shot enough bots to fill a ocean liner and I still have a hard time killing spiders.

[Solon]

114. Dude, you are absolutely right...

I remember as a kid I had the irresistable urge to stomp on Mushrooms, an influence from Super Mario Bros. I'm sure. Hell, it got really bad when I wanted to destroy the legions from Hell, in Doom, I mean, I would NEVER have gotten that idea from anything in real life(the Bible) now would I? :biting sarcasm:

To take the position that violent games actually teach us violence is to stretch credibility to the breaking point. People love conflict, no matter what type it is, its a natural impulse, to overcome said conflict is the basis for damn near ALL art since the beginning of human creativity.

[Guy Fawkes]

48. One more reason I don't like Joe Lieberman...

He was a major force behind all this anti-videogame bullshit. I can understand having the ESRB as a way of letting parents monitor the games their kids play without having to play through them first, but beyond that...

[Craig3410]

58. Hey, I play MLB 06 all the time;

following conservativelogic, I should be able to hit a Randy Johnson fastball! :crazy:

[Zodiak]

65. And I caught an 11 lb 12 oz Largemouth bass yesterday

I wonder if that will qualify me to get on the Jimmy Houston show? You know, since reality and my playstation are so similar.

And I do not care how much I like Al Gore. His wife is an nanny-state jack-booted thug with a serious nose in other people's business problem. Her actions ALMOST tricked me into not looking at her husband objectively.

I'm STILL pissed about the PMRC.

[readmoreoften]

79. Me too.

Anyone who grew up in the punk/hardcore/rap scenes in the 80s doesn't need "links" for confirmation. Tipper was off her cake. She was a household name. I also almost overlooked Gore because of her.

[Xithras]

67. Basic psychology.

Exposure to violence increases violent tendencies for the short term. It doesn't matter what the media is. The thing that many anti-gamers miss is that it's a very short-term tendency and it's not cumulative. Smack a guy in the face while he's in the middle of a hardcore deathmatch and it is far more likely to turn into a fight. Smack him while he's reading a book, and the odds of a fight are much lower. It has to do with body adrenaline levels. Violent games indisputably do increase the odds of very short term violent behavior, but have no effect on long term or permanent violent tendencies.

I was a violent gamer for years, and played Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake I&II, and other shooters almost religiously. I've mellowed with age and am now more of a World of Warcraft type gamer, but can still circle strafe with the best of them. When someone tells me that video games make people violent, I just laugh, punch them a few times, and walk away calmly :silly:

[readmoreoften]

81. So are shows like the Sopranos.

After a Sopranos marathon, my girlfriend's first instinct is always to "wreck the joint" when we go out to dinner after if someone looks at her funny. But that's hardly a reason to ban art.

[Xithras]

106. Exactly.

Exposure to violence does lead to short term increases in violent tendencies. The important keyword there is tendencies however. Playing GTA for a dozen hours might make the average person more likely to joke about shooting prostitutes for a little while, but it isn't going to turn anyone into a killer who wasn't already on that path. It might also make someone joke about wrecking a restaraunt, but won't lead to that unless the person already had that type of personality. The effect is very short term, and is simply the result of increased adrenaline. Adrenaline levels normalize within a very, very short period of ending the stimulating content.

[Solon]

109. Couldn't it also lead to the opposite?

For example, on the way home from work, I get cut off, and fume for a little bit. As soon as I get home, I turn on GTA, and trash the SHIT out of as many cars as I can, I think its better to do that than to do the same in REAL life. Video games, just like books and movies, are an escape. I remember my Dad talking about how he and his friends, as kids in the 60s, got into fights ALL the time. This lead to bruises, cuts, scrapes, etc. When I was a kid, of the late 80s, early 90s, my friends and I settled our difference playing Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter II. The worst injuries we suffered from were blisters on the palms, I would say that was less destructive than what my parents did.

[Xithras]

111. Not really.

Video games as stress relief has pretty much been debunked, because that would require the games to have a long term mental impact on their users. No study has found any such link. The effects of action gaming tend to be short lived, and are the result of adrenaline releases, not of the content of the game itself. A really, really intense game of Pong can generate the same aggressive tendencies as a game of GTA. It's all in how "into it" you get, and the only real difference is that games like Halo or GTA are designed to be immersive and keep you "into it" as long as possible. The effect vanishes once you stop playing and give your body adrenaline levels a few minutes to normalize.

[Solon]

112. Adreneline levels while playing a video game increases?

That makes no sense to me, video games are a release to me, if I want to chill out, I play a game, and its relaxing, to say the least, then again, so is swimming, another activity I love. Also, I guess it would depend on the type of game also, a good puzzler, like Brain Age for the DS can be somewhat stressing, but playing Super Mario Bros. is relaxing to me. Then again, I'm not easily "excitable" I guess is the term, so to me, most activities are relaxing, I rarely stress over small stuff, I get pissed off sometimes, so playing a "mindless" game of GTA, with no goal in mind, is great stress relief, sort of like those "stress balls" that you can abuse when you get pissed.

Then again, there are other possibilities, me and my childhood friends always settled our differences with a good fighting game on the SNES or Genesis, we get into arguments or something, and we fight, virtually, that to me seems much healthier than fighting for real.

[MoseyWalker]

76. I once pulled a video game out of the player

and bonked my son on the head with it.

I've never been the same. Violence of this kind never solves anything.

Oh, the shame, and the horror.

(can you tell I'm kidding?)

[Odin2005]

83. This is bad parents trying to blam thier failings on games.

They are too lazy to actually be parents so they expect the government to be the nanny. The dangers of violent video games are exaggerated anyway, it's all M$M sensationalist crap. Columbine just made things worse, it scared people into turning schools into prisons. If a video game made you go out and shoot someone you already have issues regarding your mental health urelated to video games (the Columbine shooters were bullied, for instance).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Agreed.

[TrogL]

87. I suppose I should point out the logical fallacy

In all fairness, he is doing "undivided middle" but he is pointing out that teh freepers are doing "big lie".

[Initech]

93. Ha! Been saying that since I was 16.

And I've been playing violent games since I was 8. I tend to think of them as a "stress reliever". Never killed anyone, never robbed anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house... hell, I've never even spent any time in jail!

[Solon]

110. Stress reliever is what they are...

I grew up in the 1980s, everything I learned came from video games, but they don't possess me dammit, if Pac-Man really influenced me, I would have been munching pills in a dark room while seeing ghosts. Wait a damn minute, that IS what I did! ;)