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Surface-to-Air Missile Downed U.S. Chopper in Iraq

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:13 AM
Original message
Surface-to-Air Missile Downed U.S. Chopper in Iraq
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/International/story?id=1515168

Attack Has Ominous Implications, Marking First Time Insurgents Shoot Down U.S. Aircraft With Missile
Jan. 17, 2006 Pentagon officials tell ABC News they believe Iraqi insurgents used a Russian-made SA-7 surface-to-air missile to shoot down a U.S. military helicopter on Monday.

The AH-64 Apache crashed north of Baghdad, killing the two crew members. It was the third American chopper to go down in 10 days.

It's a troubling new development because there are hundreds and by some estimates thousands of SA-7 missiles that are unaccounted for in Iraq.

The weapons had been part of Saddam Hussein's arsenal, much of which was looted after the invasion. But until now, insurgents had never successfully used them against an American aircraft.

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tmooses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Funny how the "looting" story just kind of disapperared just before the
election.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Could just as easilly got supplied from Syria or Iran
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Or some of the tons of weapons the USA supplied to the Afghan Mujahideen
The list of possibilities is endless.

Don
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. OH shit... they have SAMs now?
Every other chopper downed in Iraq has been felled by small arms fire or, in a few cases, RPG's.

This ain't good...:(
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I wouldn't exactly call it a SAM, but it's still dangerous
As I recall, those are basically long range RPG's with some crude tracking ability.

And they did a hell of a lot of damage to Russian helicopters during the Russian Afghan wars.

I heard Osama was quite a marksman with one.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. can you say
packing tubes of mass destruction?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. PTMD, yes, I knew there was an acronym for that
Thanks! :hi:
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. The CIA provided Afghanis with US Stingers, not Soviet Grails
The SA-7 Grail is old equipment. The Russians have since come out with Gremlins, Grouses, Gimlets, and probably some others since then.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. can you say....
...soviet Afghanistan?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. To the Afghans..
Same shit, different assholes.
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. They have had them the whole time...
Remember, the U.S. basically paid off Iraqi generals to get their troops not to fight (same as they did in Afghanistan). Those soldiers just went home. So who was gonna collect all those troops' weapons?

And Bush & Co. left who knows how many arms caches unsecured due to a lack of sufficient ground troops in the invasion of Iraq.

The messed up part about this is that the SA-7 is a heat-seeker. The AH-64 Apache is supposed to have countermeasures for this kind of missile. Damn.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. They've had 'em
I'm convinced that all these helicopter "accidents" are covering shoot-downs. The real news here is that the truth was, presumably, reported.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. It has a 1.15 Kg HE warhead
a 5,500 meter range, and can supposedly take out fighter aircraft as well. These things are also now being made in Egypt, China and Pakistan.

I would really hate to be a helicopter pilot in Iraq now. Let's hope this was the only working missle they had, though I doubt it.

snip

The SA-7 GRAIL (Strela-2) man-portable, shoulder-fired, low-altitude SAM system is similar to the US Army REDEYE, with a high explsive warhead and passive infrared homing guidance. The HN-5 ( Hong Nu = Red Cherry ) is an improved Chinese version with upgraded capabilities. The SA-7 was the first generation of Soviet man portable surface-to-air missiles. Although classed as "fire and forget" types, the missiles were easily overcome by solar heat and, when used in hilly terrain, by heat from the ground.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting,
I read another article here about the helicopters being attacked by improvised explosives which I found hard to believe. This makes alot more sense
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. At this juncture.....
I would like to know how many US Black Hawk heli's we've lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. The number is staggering.

We've currently lost 80 Abrams tanks in those 2 countries. I almost fell out of my chair. We've lost a few Bradley fighting vehicles. These are no McDonald toys. They're massive, I think $7 million dollars apiece.

Just imagine the cost of this equipment. It hasn't even been calculated into the cost of the war.

Here's what Stan Goff said about our military: "Dollar for dollar and man for man, the US military is the most inefficient in the world".
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. 3rd chopper to go down in 10 days? where the hell was i?
this is happening all so fast! i don't even remember the other two! is it being hidden by the media? am i becoming inured to the loss of life? why can't i remember the other two? where was i? i was reading, i was watching, i was on DU and elsewhere keeping an eye out... has my mind got to the point that it now just edits this as everyday news? ... death is becoming nothing but a number in my head? ... that prospect scares me!
:scared:
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f-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Guess where they got them from
most likely the US or a second broker for some US defense industry who routed it throught a third country.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Do you really think this is the first time?
I have a hard time sitting with that idea.
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