Psychoanalyze this.

[MoonRiver]

Killer moms Deanna Laney and Andrea Yates were both fundamentalist Christians and home schooled their kids, who were mostly boys (Yates also killed her baby girl). Laney even thought that she and Yates were ushering in the "end times" through the murders. Before the child murders, Yates had been diagnosed with schizophrenia but Laney had not been. Nor had Laney demonstrated any signs of mental illness to those who knew her. I have not heard that any psychiatric dx has been given to Laney since the murders. All I've heard is that she "snapped".

The common denominators in these cases are Christian fundamentalism and home schooling. Are these factors enough to send susceptible individuals over the edge?

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. Definitely a sign that someone's bat shit crazy

Educate Your Local Freepers!
Flaunt Your Opinions With Buttons, Stickers and Magnets from BrainButtons.com
>

[MichiganVote]

2. You forget the other denominator---children. They'll get you crazy :)

[MoonRiver]

5. Yeah, but that's not an uncommon variable in life!

Hard to isolate that one. :D

[murielm99]

12. Yep.

When all three of mine were toddlers and babies at home, I needed a break once in awhile. Not that I went psycho, but I was not always a patient parent without a breather. If * wants to see real hard work, he will be a mom of several children under six, all at home.

It is an unfair burden for these mothers to home school on top of everything else. They have no time left over for themselves. They are taught, too, that they are subservient to males. The head of the household rules, and I bet in most cases, he never changes a diaper or dries a dish. Mama takes care of kids and home schools all day, and then carries in the crown and robe for her man, who lounges in lordly splendor in the evening.

I grew used to having little time for myself when my kids were small. Now that they are grown, I appreciate having my time back. I chose to have three children. But I have a supportive husband, and I did not home school. I know I am not an inferior to any male. I can't imagine how these women get out of bed in the morning. They are brainwashed. I blame their men more than I blame them.

[MichiganVote]

24. Me too. Aren't spouses supposed to help each other?

:shrug:

[deaniac21]

19. Not to mention women.

[Llewlladdwr]

33. Indeed.

One could argue that being female was the single largest thing that both had in common.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. kind of a chicken or the egg problem...

did the psychosis come first, or did the cult cause the psychosis?

[SteppingRazor]

7. Exactly. The fundie-ism and homeschooling could just be more symptoms...

or they could be causes. Who's to say? :shrug:


On edit: Also, of course, since you only have two examples here, we have to allow for Option C -- that this is just pure conincidence. After all, I'm sure there's plenty of atheist, public-school-educated people who have killed other people.

[MoonRiver]

9. There is another factor which makes these cases unique.

Neither mom tried to cover up her crime. They both called 911 and immediately told police they were the killers. Parents kill their kids all the time, but usually it is self-serving and the parents try to avoid prosecution.

[MoonRiver]

8. That's what I've been grappling with.

Nuts may be more attracted to fundamentalism, or the practices of speaking in tongues etc. might help bring about the mental delusions.

[heidler1]

21. I have tried to promote the view that these problems stem from

genetic facts and thus are measurable tendencies. People prefer to believe that it is nurture that makes us the way we are. I realize that the inevitable factor in genetics is scary, but if it is the truth then we are stuck with it. The fact that identical twins raised separately tend to develop similar views across the board makes me believe that this is the way of it. If we are controlled by genes then in a way we are Innocent of guilt, look to religious solutions of life and who knows what all?

[MoonRiver]

23. Genetics is a huge piece of the puzzle.

But the fact that twins separated at birth do not both get schizophrenia 100% of the time, indicates that nurture plays some, albeit small, role in development of the disease. What I'm wondering is if these fundamentalist environments, possibly combined with the stress of homeschooling many children, could be the 1-3% of nurture necessary to push a vulnerable person over the edge.

[heidler1]

31. I agree that nurture plays a part in this. How much I'm not sure.

However if a test can show genetic frailties it seems prudent for people to have the test done. The real problem is that if your going to lay this on Gods and or Devils as Churches tend to do it will discourages taking the test.
IMO the tipping point of road rage or child rage is a big variable and knowing that you are susceptible might help give a person guidance as to what a person should avoid doing. Some people can't eat peanuts.

[MoonRiver]

32. I agree with you 100%!

Knowledge is power and can protect the innocent. Anyone who has a predisposition for a mental, or physical, disorder should check it out and seek intervention.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. There are plenty of Christian fundamentalist home schoolers...

who've never killed their kids.

Likewise, there are plenty of people that killed their kids who weren't Christian fundamentalists and weren't home schooled.

[Marie26]

6. Maybe that fund. are less likely

to receive psychiatric care & medication.

[MoonRiver]

10. Yates had been under a psychiatrist's care, but I believe her husband

convinced her to stop taking the anti-psychotic meds. Have NO idea why. What a fool.

[Pathwalker]

14. Then why was he almost charged with assault

against the doctor who refused to admit her to the hospital just a few short days before she killed them? This is what Andrea Yates' mother said.
Also: today on CNN headline news, they were saying that the anti-depressants she was on is the one that caused "homicidal ideations" in clinical trials.
I have no idea who the second woman is, but I watched Andrea Yates' mother on Larry the Lizard's show, and she said that Andrea's husband had been trying FOR DAYS to get his wife admitted to the hospital for psychiatric observation because he was so worried about "what she might do", but that he was more concerned that she would kill herself.

Saying that this is because of fundy upbringings is WAY too simplistic - this is mental illness,period. To say otherwise trivializes mental illness.

[EFerrari]

29. Not exactly. Her doctor withdrew the medication because it

wasn't working for her.

And then, he sent them home.

That was two days before the babies died.

I think that doctor should have been charged.

[Ringo84]

11. No

I think that Yates and Laney are mentally ill. I don't like fundies and think they're stupid, but I don't think they're necessarily mentally ill. And in fact, by trying to draw a line from home schooling to murder like this is a lot like the fundies who try to say that the country's so crime-ridden today because of prayer and Bible being "taken out" (in their opinion) of public school.
Ringo

[MoonRiver]

13. I'm not making a value judgment.

What I wonder is if the pressures of home schooling, and/or encouragement for delusional thinking in fundie churches might affect SOME susceptible individuals. It's just a tentative hypothesis.

Of course not all fundamentalist home schoolers kill their kids.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. I don't think there's causation.

Could be a correlation.

[Ringo84]

16. OK. I understand you. (nt)

[brentspeak]

20. Answer to your hypothesis: No.

[China_cat]

17. Andrea Yates was diagnosed

with post-partum depression after her first child and after her second her doctor recommended that they not have any more. She was put on medication which her husband would not let her take.

For most of her time, they were living in a school bus while her husband kept telling her he couldn't understand why she couldn't keep up with another church member who was homeschooling 7 children and keeping a perfect house on top of that.

Neighbors reported seeing her on a ladder washing windows during her last trimester with the baby girl (they now lived in a house), mowing the lawn and taking care of her terminally ill father in addition to the children.

Not only her husband, but his family KNEW that she was in a very fragile state and was not supposed to be left alone with the children. They did it anyway.

How that jury found her anything but batshit crazy is beyond me.

Religion stops a thinking mind.

[MoonRiver]

18. Very good points.

I don't want to stereotype or generalize, but my impression is that men who belong to fundamentalist religions tend to be very authoritarian and rigid about sex roles. That could definitely add to the inner pressure a vulnerable wife would feel, increasing the possibility of her "snapping".

[seabeyond]

22. well yaaaaaa.... lol lol. it is a god send getting kids out of house

and having the opportunity to "miss" them. lol. now that part just a joke. but.... she had babies, all close in age and trying to teach. no way i could do it and i am good. on top of that all the other expectation she puts on self, without complaint to be good mom and wife and please the lord.... geez.

laney, i am not remembering any specifics.

not saying all that homeschool are susceptable to murder, but really, i couldnt do it.

[slackmaster]

25. I think your curiosity stems from a deep conflict within your family

Tell us about your mother.

Did she force you to go to church as a small child?

[MoonRiver]

26. Lol, no!

She took us a few times a year to Sunday School. Never once got my dad in church. We were definitely an a-religious family. :D

My curiosity comes from a lifelong fascination with aberrant human behavior. Sick, I know.

[blm]

27. It's going to get WORSE, MyPet - think of all those kids born on June 6,

this year and what their fundie parents will believe after the baby keeps them awake for the fourth night in a row.

[MoonRiver]

28. YIKES!

I hadn't thought about that one! But I guess it's what we have to expect when the patients are running the asylum.

[Kansas Wyatt]

30. The question that needs to be asked is....

Where were their Christian Fundy Churches and fellow congregation when the powder keg was erupting into a Rapture on these women's children?

Don't these Christian Fundy Churches give a damn about their members Rapturing their children?

Did these Fundies see something wrong and ignore it, or was it masked by their own Christian fundamentalism behavior?

[AntiFascist]

34. There's a lot to be said for the koolaid analogy...

why would members of a cult suddenly decide to commit suicide? Many of them may have a tendency toward delusional thinking, but the cult itself reinforces much of that thinking and a strong belief in the rapture would place them in an altered state of mind. If the rapture never occurs, then they may decide to create a condition where it does occur. Look at what's happening in our foreign policy.