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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:08 AM
Original message
Bev Harris and BBV.org's IRS 990 filing
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 10:13 AM by Kelvin Mace
Mods: This is a GD topic, not Election Reform, since Ms. Harris obtained MUCH money from DUers in general to support her organization and these people have a right to see some accounting of it. If the topic is moved to the Election forum, fewer DUers will see it who, I feel, have a right to see it.

Also, we would like to invite DUers with CPA/accounting backgrounds to analyze the filing.

Again, this is an accounting of how money many people on DU donated to Bev has been accounted for.

I had said I would stay out of this topic since it was causing grief to the Mods, but since Bev now has a proxy once again making claims that I have ties to Diebold, I cannot remain silent and see my reputation called into question.


Bev has FINALLY posted her IRS Form 990 (about a year late) for 2004. A few DUers have been mulling over the documents and trying to make sense of it.

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/bbv//f990bbv.pdf

(I have posted it on my web site as Bev's postings have a tendency to vanish when they prove embarrassing.)

What has been found so far has not instilled confidence in BBV's operations. The form is chock full of math errors, BASIC errors that no 1st year accountant would make. Given the fact that any reputable accountant (and Bev claimed that a top firm specializing in non-profits was working on this) would use a software package which would do the math for you, we must assume that this form was NOT done, as Bev claimed, by a professional. This is born out by the absence of a signature identifying the accounting firm.

The 990 is signed by Vickie Karp, yet directly underneath this signature where the IRS instructs you to print the name of the signature is written "Bev Harris - Director".

DUer Troubleinwinter has background on her long arduous journey in getting BBV.org to provide her with a copy of this document (as required by law) here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I would also advise folks to listen to this MP3 of Bev on Randi Rhodes "explaining" herself and her actions:

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/bev_randi.mp3

An annotated and documented transcript may be found hear (Bev claims this is a Diebold site, but provides ZERO evidence of this claim):

http://blackboxwatchdog.com/node/13

I find it ironic that a person involved in the pursuit for accurate and transparent elections can't add and has to be pushed kicking and screaming into accounting for their use of donated funds.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
:kick:
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Please *everyone* reading this post - put your $ and energy into
national organizations that are getting results!

This post is part of an important 'internal debate' among election justice advocates.

I don't want people to get 'turned off' from election justice work because of the debate. We all want to direct our $ and energy where they will do the most good.

KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE: We want all eligible voters to vote, and for the votes to be cast and counted accurately.

1. The simplest thing you can do: Donate to the excellent groups below!


2. To take further action, start here: Voter's Unite - Take Action!


3. Check for election justice groups in your state: Voter's Unite VoteTrustUSA.org

Also, search for the ACLU and People for the American Way and NAACP contacts in your state -- these groups are working to enfranchise all eligible voters. (links below)

Also, search for the Common Cause and League of Women Voters' contacts in your state -- these groups are getting started working toward getting ballots cast and counted accurately. (links below)

Also, contact your local Democratic Party to find out what they know and what they are doing. They may need educating or they may already be rolling...


What if there aren't any groups in your state already working on election justice issues?

You have to jump in and start taking action without knowing everything about the subect.

  • Read the material on the excellent websites below.
  • Print out the best material and take it to your local Democratic Party, to
  • Democratic candidates, to local progressive groups and educate them!
  • Contact election officials in your county or state by email, phone, private letter or LTTE to tell them your concerns, to tell them what you want.
  • Work with others to register eligible citizens to vote and educate them about their rights & responsibilities.
  • Work with others to learn about election laws & policies in your county & state.
  • Work with others to collaborate with/challenge election administrators in your county/state to ensure that voters are not disenfranchised, and to ensure that votes are cast and counted accurately.
  • Participate in elections as a pollworker or pollwatcher.
  • Conduct exit polls or parallel elections.
  • VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! GET EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO VOTE! We are most likely to catch cheating if there is massive, massive turnout.


Keep in mind: You cannot read everything before you begin taking action - the literature is voluminous. Also, the literature is 'general' -- you read about problems that have occurred across the nation and you read general recommendations. Then you have to educate yourself about your county/state -- and try to apply the general knowledge to your local situation. VotersUnite and VoteTrustUSA try to answer questions from people across the nation who want to be active in election justice. (If you will visit the DU Election Reform forum we will try to answer your questions, too!)


:redbox: VotersUnite.org http://www.votersunite.org /
E-VOTING 2006: The Approaching Train Wreck * Mythbreakers: Facts About Electronic Elections * Voting system failures by vendor * Vote-Switching and Ballot Definition Problems * Handouts!

:redbox: VoteTrustUSA.org http://www.votetrustusa.org /
Daily News * States: Indiana * Subscribe to the Election Integrity Weekly Newsletter * Poll Monitors and Poll Workers Guide to Electronic Voting

:redbox: VerifiedVoting.org http://www.verifiedvoting.org /
Resolution on Electronic Voting * Election Administration Project: Best Practices for Reliable Election Systems. * Election Incident Reporting System (EIRS) * Election Protection Questionnaires: Local & State Election Officials, Pre-Election Testing

:redbox: National Election Data Archive http://electionarchive.org
Democracy Will Survive If Candidates, Political Parties, and Voters Act. * For Candidates: Assure that Votes in Your Race Are Counted Accurately * For Political Parties: Synopsis: Assure Accurate Vote Counts * For Political Parties: Long: Help Ensure Vote Count Integrity * For Voters: What Voters Can Look For & Report On

:redbox: ACLU: Voting Rights http://www.aclu.org/votingrights /
Working to make registration accessible and to protect minority voting rights. Tremendous legislative work on behalf of citizens impacted by gerrymandering.

:redbox: NAACP: Project Vote http://projectvote.org/home.html
Check out the Election Administration Program and resources for Resources for Election Officals, Policy Makers, and Civic Participation Organizations

:redbox: Voter Action http://www.voteraction.org /
Provides strategic and legal support to ensure verifiable, accurate and transparent voting systems. Has supported lawsuits in Arizona, California, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania.

:redbox: Common Cause http://www.commoncause.org /
Sponsors Vote for America, a non-partisan voter education and mobilization program. Go to the Common Cause site, locate the organizers for your state and contact them!

:redbox: People for the American Way: Civic Participation http://www.pfaw.org /
Election Protection Program offers: volunteer poll monitors; civil rights lawyers and advocates who preserve access to the polls, expose and prevent voter intimidation; help working with election officials to identify and solve problems with new voting machines, technology and ballot forms.

:redbox: League of Women Voters: Election Reform http://www.lwv.org /
American Democracy at Risk: Agenda for Renewal and Repair includes recommendations for election reform and advocates nonpartisan redistricting, safeguarding civil liberties; campaign finance reform.

:redbox: Brennan Center for Justice http://www.brennancenter.org /
Excellent reports on voter registration databases & "The Machinery of Elections"

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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Good, but
I'm going to continue to warn about NEDA
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Fair enough, Febbie!
That still leaves a long list!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Febble - Please direct me to
...some good NEDA documents on how to monitor elections

Thanks! IndyOp

PS. I have had a few reservations about NEDA too -- I just wonder about the usefulness of statistical analysis, when we should be pushing much harder for VVPAR with 10% to 100% hand count audits (automatic).
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Febble is a good sport, but
that's a bit like asking someone who is being stalked to write a recommendation letter for her stalker. I mean, the Dopp/Febble situation is Seriously Weird.

But Dopp seems to specialize in seriously weird situations. Ask FogerRox. Or Fly by night, or Time for change, or Bruce O'Dell, or Lynn Landes, or others whom perhaps I shouldn't name. IMO she came by her tombstone honestly. (Actually I think at least two tombstones now.) It doesn't mean she is wrong about everything -- she isn't. But, yeesh.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Thanks for the excellent post
I would add that this problem will be solved by the voters at the state and county levels, demanding change.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. I don't see two sides here, e.g. "a debate". That grifter
ripped people off here AND she's still withholding records from the public that she's required to produce by law.

What's to debate?

This grifter isn't our movement. And every movement has its grifters -- that doesn't meean we let ourselves get sidetracked. On the contrary!

:)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
80. Thanks very much for this post IndyOp! Bookmarking!
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
170. IndyOp, if you haven't already, can you post this as its own thread?
Your post here is awesome and needs to be posted regularly so that people can see the legitimate groups that are walking the walk and talking the talk.

Love ya,

Arn
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. They'll be hearing from the IRS
Assets do not = liabilities plus fund balance on balance sheet (part 4) ( balance sheet must be in balance !!!)

Expenses do not total up in Part 1 nor in Part 2

This was not prepared by an accountant or even a bookkeeper
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. self-deleted
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 11:29 AM by Febble
replied to wrong post
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. And I wonder how much of it is even true? nt
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. That's my thought
This form raises more questions than it answers.
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
62. Not necessarily
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 07:48 PM by banana republican
the IRS tends to leave most non-profits alone unless they receive a complaint.

I have seen worse 990's than this that were not audited.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. It just never ends
Poor Andy.

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. We are nearing the anniversary of his death.
:(
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I can't think of a better present than
for Bev to be audited.

-Hoot
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Agreed.
How can we force an audit? Anybody know?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. I imagine that you can rest assured she'll be audited.
The IRS rather frowns upon not paying payroll taxes for over a year. I venture that she is well onto the IRS radar already. It is the org's initial filing (first filing). The form is a mess with errors.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
107. I wonder, has anyone seen the bbv.org's Application for Exemption?
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 02:13 AM by djmaddox1
It appears that the requirements for it are similar to those for the 990.


http://www.irs.gov/publications/p557/ch02.html#d0e1630

"An exempt organization must also make available for public inspection without charge its application for tax-exempt status. An application for tax exemption includes the application form (such as Form 1023 or 1024), all documents and statements the IRS requires the organization to file with the form, any statement or other supporting document submitted by an organization in support of its application, and any letter or other document issued by the IRS concerning the application."

I'll believe she's really a 'non-profit' when I see that one.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #107
122. Guidestar lists bbv as a 501 (c) (3) Public Charity
It is hard to believe but - at guidestar.org (reg is free)

BLACK BOX VOTING
15 S GRADY WAY STE 522
% LINDA FRANZ
RENTON , WA 98055

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GENERAL INFORMATION

This organization is a 501(c)(3) Public Charity.
This organization is required to file an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ.
Contributions are deductible, as provided by law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NTEE Code
R40Voter Education/Registration

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EIN: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
Year Founded: Information not available
Ruling Year: 2004
Fiscal Year: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Assets: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Income: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
No. of Board Members: Information not available
No. of Full-Time Employees: Information not available
No. of Part-Time Employees: Information not available
No. of Volunteers: Information not available

Back to Top

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FORM 990 AND EDOCS
None Available.

Why can't I find IRS Form 990s for this organization?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #107
130. That much, at least, is legitimate
The letter is now on her site. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/IRSletter.pdf
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #130
153. It looks like an incomplete disclosure ...
it's only the acceptance letter. I believe she's also required to put out the supporting documentation below in red.


"An exempt organization must also make available for public inspection without charge its application for tax-exempt status. An application for tax exemption includes the application form (such as Form 1023 or 1024), all documents and statements the IRS requires the organization to file with the form, any statement or other supporting document submitted by an organization in support of its application, and any letter or other document issued by the IRS concerning the application."


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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #153
155. Most interesting.
I did not file a request for the Tax Exemption forms. I didn't research it. I just took it for granted. Until yesterday, I had even assumed the exemption letter was on file with the State of WA, though I knew BBV was not registered to solicit donations in the state. GADS, what a fucking mess. It just gives me the creeps. And this is who promotes herself as the Goddess of Election Auditing. It is just nauseating.

:puke:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
69. Call the IRS
and let them know your a concerned citizen with info regarding the returns for a 501C Corp.

If they get enough complaints, I'm sure they'll be happy to investigate.

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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
84. YES !!! File IRS FORM 3949-A
Available at your friendly neighborhood
IRS Website:

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/lists/0,,id=97817,00.html

If they receive credible reports of tax fraud or personal inurement they will investigate. I have worked with several non-profits that have been audited as a result of complaints filed with the IRS.

If you want to file a complaint you might want to consider the following:

1) try and stick to "facts" e.g. inconsistencies in the 990 such as accounts that do not balance; lack of a schedule A; non-payment of employment taxes; or other items that you have personal knowledge of.

2) if you can, identify specific IRS Code section violations that you think are significant and why. For example:

2)a) Revenue Ruling 77-162 "an exempt organization that, without reasonable cause files an incomplete information return on FORM 990 by omitting material information has failed to file a return for the purposes of the penalty imposed by section 6652(d)(1) of the code....."
2)a)1) This IRS FORM has material errors which make its usefulness questionable (list errors that you are aware of...)

2)b) Proposed Regulation 301.6104(e)-1 "each annual information return shall be made available for a period of three years beginning on the date the return is required to be filed (determined with regard to any extension of time for filing) or is actually filed, which ever is later."
2)b)1) The organization has failed to comply with the public disclosure requirement since this return was filed over one year late. This filing is well beyond the allowed time as proscribed in the above regulation.

2)c) The signature box on FORM 990 indicates that the form is filed under penalties of perjury. on Page 5 PART VI LINE 83a the entity indicates that they have complied with the public disclosure requirements this may be a material misrepresentation of facts.



THESE ARE JUST SUGESTIONS AND CARRY NO WARRENTY.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #84
91. A couple of big quibbles
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 12:10 AM by troubleinwinter
2)b) If a person had physically walked into the BBV office and asked to see the filing on or after 5/15/06, it would have to be produced then and there. If submitting a request in writing (such as email), it must be sent within 30 days ORRRRR be published in PDF form on the internet.

I have not heard that anyone on DU (except me!) made a request for the document. I did receive it late, and incomplete.

2)b)1) The filing is not over one year late. The original due date was November 15, 2005 (5-1/5 months after end of fiscal year). Assuming proper extensions were filed and approved, the final filing due date was May 15, 2006.

It is not going to work well to appear to flood them with complaints. Best to just chill a few days so that a well-constructed complaint is filed. There may be some additional material related to this. NOT good to jump the gun and to flood them.



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Techno Dog Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. From the Kos link


here ya go, pal (2+ / 0-)


1. a 990 form is a part of the organization's taxes (just like that missing schedule A). To pretend that someone would get their taxes done "partially" by an accountant is ludicrous. In the quote below, Bev is discussing taxes and the form 990.

2. Bev claimed that the reason the 990 was unavailable was because her "accounting firm" had filed a tax extension (without her knowledge).

Quote where she said they had an "accounting firm" on April 13, 2006:


The first Black Box Voting 990 form will be filed on May 15. Our fiscal year is July 1-June 30. This puts the due date at Nov. 15, but because it is a nonprofit and no taxes due, there is an automatic extension to Feb. 15. We were surprised when we were notified by our accounting firm that they had filed for the six-month extension, making the due date May 15.


link (google cache is my friend):
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:ETD9-O99r_UJ:www.bb...
I have no doubt that soon we will be regaled with tales about the evil accounting firm that stole her money and didn't do her taxes and she was too stupid to do simple math and fill in those mean old forms herself.

I really want these people who can't do simple addition to be the watchdog for counting votes. I think it's amazing that a group who claims to be experts at auditing elections and results can't be bothered to check over their own tax forms before they send them out to people who are ALREADY critical of what's being done with the money.

Amazing. Also, June 30th ends another fiscal year for BBV. Wonder how until we see those bogus numbers?

by OCD is Funny on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 01:19:05 AM EDT

< Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll >


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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. I don't think it is an "automatic" extension
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 12:34 AM by Stephanie

When I called the IRS in January requesting a copy of her 990, they said that it was not available, and that possbily she had filed for an extension, and that the filing for the extension should be available shortly. He also told me she had not filed any payroll taxes. Then I lost interest. But all of these docs can be requested from the IRS directly for a small fee, including the extensions. You don't have to get them from BBV. You should be able to get them from Guidestar too.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. BOTH 3 month extensions
must be FILED for. The first 3 month extension is automatically approved. The second one must be FILED for and approval is not automatic.

Egads.... no payroll taxes until sometime after six months after the fiscal year end??!!!! Taxes going back a year and a half???!!! WHAT must IRS penalties on THAT be????!!!!! OUCH, donors!!!! What a fucking irresponsible waste.

The 990 docs can be requested from IRS. Takes about 6 weeks. Or you can request them from the org., and they are required by law to provide them in 30 days. They are not on Guidestar yet (takes them about 2 months after filing). IF Bev filed to IRS on 5/15, they should pop up on Guidestar within 'bout 2 weeks. NOTE!!! If they come up on Guidestar, LOOK for the Ogden IRS tamp in the middle of the front page of the filing. If it's not there... they were sent directly by the org, and is not proof they went to IRS.

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #97
118. She is filing an extension for Corporate Taxes not Payroll Taxes
There's no such thing, as far as I know, of getting extensions to pay payroll taxes. This is because you've already deducted the taxes from the employee's earnings for them and you are just transferring their money to the IRS. It is no longer your money.


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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. Yes, I understand that exactly. We are talking two different things here
I am just stunned to learn that evidently no payroll taxes were deposited at all for employees during the entire fiscal year, and THEN not even until AT LEAST six months after close of FY. Penalties going back at least a year and a half.

There is absolutely no excuse whatever for such behavior.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. I read that over there
This was my FAVORITE part!!!!!-

I really want these people who can't do simple addition to be the watchdog for counting votes. I think it's amazing that a group who claims to be experts at auditing elections and results can't be bothered to check over their own tax forms....


Want to know why Bev posted that excuse on April 13? Because I had sent her the filing request on April 3.
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Techno Dog Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. That's always been my number one problem
Everybody but Bev needs to be transparent.

Also from the link this laugh line...


I also reckon a good portion of the million bucks was spend buying socks.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #96
98. Yup
I tell ya, I sure appreciated that laugh... been a dreary few weeks dealing with and looking at this shit-on-paper.
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Techno Dog Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #98
103. I know this might not be
a popular opinion here (yet) but please have a look at this post and tell me if any alarm bells go off, or if it looks familiar.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. I think it does not belong in this thread.
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Techno Dog Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Not sure what you mean.
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 01:37 AM by Techno Dog
The link? If so how come, I think we have v 2.0 right here right now, but with a good reason i'll self delete both of these posts.


My actual reply is a bit further down the thread because I didn't want it deleted if/when the post I linked to gets deleted.

:toast:
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #104
151. if you scroll down the link Techno Dog gave
you will see that Techno Dog addresses the hero worship
given to some Election Evangelists may be misplaced.

I think TD pointed out that 3 of 4 "heros" mentioned also make
a huge living off of this issue.

Also there are at least one or two the well known Election Evangelists
that don't want federal laws to protect the elections in every state.

I have to give Kennedy credit -
he doesn't make his article about himself
he doesn't say he singlehandedly will save the next election
he doesn't criticize and oppose academics
he doesn't ask for donations nor does he make his living doing this
he focuses us forward
he promises that he will protect whistleblowers




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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #93
117. Why would they even need an extension
if no taxes were due?
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. I remember it so well benburch
I was out of the country at the time. I heard about it and I broke down and cried on the street in a foreign country nonetheless. Someone stopped and asked me why I was crying. I said because a good man had died in the USA and he had NO health insurance and that he had to basically rely on the generosity of people he did not know to help him during his final days.

I got a baffled look of :wtf:

It was embarrassing for Andy I believe but he was grateful for the help I know.

Great damn country alright and then we have the likes of Bev Harris. Too bad all of that money she ripped We the People off for couldn't have all gone to Andy!

We need to have an Andy Memorial Day IMO.

Any others like this idea?

:dem: :kick:

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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yes, what day do we do it
I love the idea.

He was a sweet man, and it would be a nice thing to do.

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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. We should do it the day he died
It was in early July but I cannot remember the exact date. I'm sure someone around here does.

An official "Andy Stephenson Memorial Day" on the DU!

We will not forget you Andy! We :loveya: even though you aren't here with us physically any longer. Your spirit lives on forever my departed friend!

:hug: Andy! :hug: and we miss you!!!

:kick:

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
99. Andy passed away on July 7th 2005....n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I do.
:)
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. It's a wonderful idea! How? n/t
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Here is my idea
I have a message in my in-box from Andy. It was before he found out what was wrong. I remember I told him to stay calm. He wrote me back.

Maybe we could all post excerpts of what messages we might have from Andy?

Do you like this tribute to be scheduled for the day he passed away? I do. :)

:kick:

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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #40
147. It's a splendid idea!
I only left one in my inbox, I was so certain there would be time for many more that I didn't think to keep them. The one that is left ... I just couldn't delete.

Is the date July 7th like I see downthread? Let's not let this idea get lost!

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #147
149. Andy said
that the one thing he feared was being forgotten. He was so dearly loved and admired by so many, he should never have thought it.

My sig says it every day. American Patriot.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. Rec'd -
Tip of the hat to the mods for moving this back to GD. Since she's already said that she's going for donations hard this year, DUers have every right to see just how she accounts (or NOT!) for what she does with it!

Bev Harris in her own words:
"I'm going on record now: Black Box Voting is going to be very aggressive about fund raising in 2006."
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-profile.c...

Part of that aggressiveness has already reared it's ugly head on DU - the same old tactic of trying to divert attention from questions by attempting to blame shit on Andy.

Again.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Be sure to archive any posts from BBV.org
as they tend to vanish.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. yup
first she starts out asking for used video cameras, is this true?
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. Anyone ask for her audited financial statements yet? n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
137. LOL
That would be a fun read.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
173. Audited financials
may not be required. That depends solely on the state.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ok here's something that I find interesting. I was punching through
the numbers to find the math errors. In part two,Stmt of Functional expenses, I noticed that the difference between the total line and what it should actually be are almost identical to line 29, which is payroll taxes.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Hmmm...
Curious...
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm passing on this form to bigger brains than myself to look over it.
I have someone close who files 990s every year for a major non-profit.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That will be illuminating
It is interesting that the only person willing to SIGN the thing is Vicky Karp.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
48. I suspect
the reason for that is that she DID NOT PAY payroll taxes during the entire fiscal year, though they were due to be paid monthly thru the year.

According to page 9 Addendum line 60, apparently the taxes were paid sometime after the close of the fiscal year. Does the amount shown include penalties? I don't think so... maybe penalties actually paid after FY closing would not show up until the filing for that following year (next 990).

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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. this pisses me off!
I sent Bev Harris some money. Not much money, but some nonetheless!

And then there was that man named Andy ... :grr:

Bev Harris I hope they catch you for you seem to be a crook!

:dem: :kick:

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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. Randi: " we raised all this money and then we don't hear from you"
Everyone should listen to this audio of the "meltdown".

Randi asks tough questions, and here are excerpts of the sort of answers.
It is actually painful to listen to ...


RHODES: ...maybe you need a new phone. You know I just can't understand this, you know I...

HARRIS: (laughs)

RHODES: ...we raised all this money and then we don't hear from you, and it was just really disheartening, I gotta tell you. A lot of people, apparently, are starting to say stuff about you and it kind of freaks me out. 'Cause how are we supposed to follow this story without you?

HARRIS: Well, the problem is Olbermann really did not ever contact me. I mean he really didn't...

More.......

RHODES: Well we need to help you, if you can't get a response from a Democratic legislator then let me know, because the entire congressional black caucus, Senator Kerry, Senator Edwards, they've all joined in on this. And if, if the missing piece is the source code, or if the missing piece is that you've got computers calling out to a central tabulator, or something is awry... somebody is, we need affidavits and we need them before January 6th and I, you know, I don't understand it and then I talk to Andy and Andy tells me that you two aren't working together any more? And I, I don't know what...

HARRIS: He does?

RHODES: That's, yeah!

HARRIS: I had no idea, uh, huh that's... (grows flustered) OK. (garbled)

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/bev_randi.mp3
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. wow
I don't know much about this whole Bev Harris thing but that woman is lying through her damned teeth in that interview.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. It is bad, very bad.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
171. She says that Olbermann didn't contact her
Edited on Sun Jul-02-06 07:19 PM by arnheim
Here's what he had to say:

December 1, 2004 | 11:25 p.m. ET

More than one kind of black box (Keith Olbermann)

NEW YORK - Ive been avoiding this topic for four weeks now, but given what I understand are a lot of dropped jaws around the blogosphere, I think I better spill this.

I dont think Bev Harris of Black Box Voting is doing anybody any favors.

I suggested as much tonight on Countdown and there were a lot of understandably surprised emails. Some profane, incidentally, which had previously been the exclusive province of those who notified me of their opposition to anybody covering anything about voting irregularities or especially Jesse Jacksons F-Word.

Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking Why dont you have Bev Harris on Countdown?, Why dont you run the Bev Harris videotapes?, Why dont you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?

Because she wont let us.

I have not dealt with Ms. Harris directly, but my staff has, and though we have asked her on a regular basis to let us show these tapes on national television, she has declined.

We are running in risky waters as it is, offering a platform for tapes we cant independently verify. But I have heretofore been convinced that she had credentials sufficient to make an interview segment with her both useful and reasonable.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008 /
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't Worry, I Wouldn't Donate A Penny To That Egotistical Obnoxious Pig.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. How much $$ is she claiming?
I don't want to bother with the PDF. We know how much Andy said she collected. How much is she declaring in the form?
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. $972,304 ... almost a million bucks!
And was still (according to this) sitting on $613,309 in cash at the end of the year?

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. yet no health insurance for Andy
and what did she do with the money, pray tell?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. This is beyond a crime. It's a sin and she will burn for it
eventually and I believe it will be here in this life. I do believe in karma.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Apparently...
close to 600K is in the bank. What a bunch of BS.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. In a NON-interest bearing account mind you
How stupid can you get?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #67
106. First question that crossed my mind.
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 01:38 AM by fooj
Actually...one of the first things that I noticed. Yep. Real sneaky... :evilgrin:
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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. I have a question.
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 04:25 PM by Janice325
I see the form is signed by Valerie Karp on May 15, 2006. The form states that it is for the year beginning on 7-1-2004 ending 6-30-2005. On page 5 (of 9) there is a section "Part V-A, Current Officers,Directors, Trustees." Andy Stephenson is listed as Assistant Director, working 40 hours a week at $4000 a month.
My question is when was Andy fired and when did he become really, really ill?
If anyone thinks this question is opening up a can of worms, please let me know and I'll delete this. I'm just detail oriented and wonder if the info on the form about Andy is accurate.
I feel rotten that I gave a little money to Bev way back when, but I learned really quickly just by lurking and reading as to who the "good guys" were.
I did gave more for Andy when he was ill, but I wish we still had him physically with us. :cry:
I never met Andy, but wish I had.
Thanks for the post, Kelvin.
k&r
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. checked my IM's
Andy was fired around Dec. 13. He first felt very sick Feb. 2 while he was at a conference in DC. That led to tests back home, etc.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. yep on the RR show Dec 14, she acted like she didn't know
listen to the audio, she acted as if she didn't know that
she and Andy were not working together anymore.

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
136. She fired him PERSONALLY. nt
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
70. This means Bev was lying when she said she
didn't know Andy has "quit".
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. I don't know
My PM to him Dec. 14. says "they are listening to Randi Rhodes and saying you quit" and he replies "call me" - then the next day I tell him she's on WNYC and he says "I don't care to listen" I dont' remember what he said when we talked.

I know when she posted the big "why I fired Andy" thing on her site it was all over DU, so we can find those threads.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Bev fired Andy on 12/14/04
http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/blame_andy.htm

Bev claimed to Randi she didn't know Andy had "quit"
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #58
101. remember as well Randi did not take a phone call from Andy as well!
Andy was on the road in fla i believe and Randi would not take a phone call from him..

fly
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. I saw through her early on.
Didnt give her a nickel..

She was just too popular too fast and we had no idea who she was. For the record I have been conned, and Im wary now.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Don't you think Diebold's accountants are going over this...
with a fine tooth comb?

Just one problem...it they find (or have found?) something, how to make the discrepancy public with out taking a PR hit? You know, big old Diebold attacking a little non-profit. Hmmm, how could they do it... :think:
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. So there are some Bev supporters out there!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. You can always tell us "Bev supporters"...No pitchfork. n/t
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Blinders, maybe??
AMAZING! It has been not quite a whole 16 hours since the 'newly granitized one' accused DUers who question Bev of being in cahoots with Diebold.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I don't hang on every word, but I do keep tabs. And many many...
incidents portrayed here as black and white are actually quite grey on all sides.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Math isn['t grey
it is VERY black and white.

Bev's math's doesn't add up.
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
120. What grey may mean is that
while Bev is a clumsy arrogant fool, Diebold may nonetheless actually be out to get her. One does not necessarily counter the other, concurrence may be a possibility.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #120
126. And IF this is the case,
IF Diebold is "out to get her", she is giving them bucketfuls of ammunition.

However, as someone who has listened to Bev's paranoid ravings where she has interpreted simple Windows problems as evidence that her computer was "bugged", who refused to attend an event at Swarthmore for fear of "assassination", I can tell you that the only danger to Bev is Bev.

Diebold doesn't have to lift a finger to discredit her, she is discrediting herself. And as long as folks continue to support her, she will continue to discredit the movement.
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #126
146. Aye, Occam's razor is on your side here
Given how toxic her conduct has been there is no rational need for Diebold to do anything about her. Doesn't mean that Diebold hasn't actually attempted to discredit her, just that it would be unnecessary. And given Diebold's general success, I think it would be unlikely for them to behave irrationally unless mad with power. Is it enough just to be disgusted by both Bev and Diebold?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #53
68. I missed that thread -- thank goodness n/t
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. and next they will ask
why do you hate our freedom?

There is a war going on, don't ask questions!

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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
114. Fair is fair. If we are examining the Diebold folks, they have a right to
ask who is examining them. If you can't do basic math, they have a reason to be skeptical of your ability to do high level mathematical/computer analysis.

Its one of the many reasons Bev is a detriment to the Election Integrity movement; her lack of PERSONAL integrity, poor management skills, and ability to turn everything into an issue about *her* instead of the facts ("these numbers do not add up") distracts from the real issues -- the vote counting software is full of holes which keep miraculously favoring Republican candidates.

If she really cared about this issue, she'd get off the stage. Unfortunately, her narcissistic personal problems are assuring that she won't do that. Plus, she's found a way to get people to give her money, with no accountability required.

Her passion for the topic is never going to be in doubt. Her effectiveness / credibility, unfortunately, is pretty damn well close to non-existent.

In my opinion, of course.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #114
123. its the creditability factor
if/when BBV.org messes up, it can throw their body of work
into question.

That is why a Million $ organization should keep accurate records
and provide transparency, so that there is no question.

Perhaps their next tax return will provide a correction.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #114
158. Ida! Nice to hear from you
Back after the 04 election, I tried to gather information for Bev and send it to her. She only wanted money - more money.

As I recall, you were working with Nader in - New Hampshire - was it? Anyway, in the thick of things, I emailed information to you and received a response. You were very effective and had things under control.

Bev, for all of the money pouring in, did not have anything under control. She only wanted to talk conspiracy and ask for more money. The last straw was the whole Keith Olbermann fiasco. She alienated the one member of the media who was on our side.

You are nicer than I am, I guess. I question her passion for the topic. I only see a quest for money and power and fame.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
116. It is really getting to be a bit old to be constantly accused
of helping Diebold.

This is the very SAME tactic used by BushCo to try and silence its critics. Any attack on Bush is helping our enemies. And Bev's defenders claim any attack on Bev helps Diebold.

The cognitive dissonance is mind boggling.

Bev is currently on record OPPOSING the only Federal legislation which can protect us from elections. Why? Because she claims that her reading of the law shows it is dangerous.

Of course this is the same woman who tells Randi Rhodes she can't handle a simple voice mail system, who apparently can't follow simple instructions on a 990 form, and can't perform simple addition (and lacks the requisite skills to operate a calculator which could perform addition).

Are you accusing me or anyone else here of being in collusion with Diebold? How many provable lies do we have to catch Bev in before you admit that the woman is not helping this movement?

Bev said that BBV's books were being handled by an accounting firm that specialized in non-profits. A cursory examination of the 990 shows this simply is NOT true.

The proof?

No accounting firm's signature appears on the form and Bev has refused to identify the firm that handled this task. Add to that the fact that the number LITERALLY DO NOT ADD UP and the evidence is DAMNING in the extreme!

Have you EVER listened to Bev's BS explanations on Randi Rhodes? She sounds like Scott McClellan explaining the latest raping of the Constitution by his boss.

So, please spare me and the rest of the people here the veiled accusations of about OUR integrity. Many folks here are actually DOING something about the problem, rather than talking it to death while stuffing money in their pockets.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #116
128. LOL - I find it interesting that you take my comments personally...
and that you believe that I accused you of direct collusion with Diebold. I merely asked how Diebold could release the results of a hypothetical audit.

No, bad blood alone is quite sufficient to account for YOUR actions in my mind.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. You made a general statement
about how Diebold might get damaging information used against Bev. You impled that we ewre doing just that.

Please don't play coy, it insults everyone's intelligence.

Bev has posted an offical report about her organization. The form, an offical government document, is riddled with math errors, improperly signed, and raises MANY questions about her management of BBV.

Yet, somehow, this doesn't bother you.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #133
134. The few times that I've read reports in the MSM critical of DREs...
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 03:20 PM by Junkdrawer
was because of work funded by Bev.

She pays Harry Hursti's consulting bills.

Diebold is being given billions of MY tax dollars to install voting machines that I believe threatens MY democracy.

Now, guess what I worry about more...
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. Billions?
I think your numbers are a bit off. IIRC, Diebolds total sales for voting machines was in the neighborhood of $250-$300 million.

Could you point to one law Bev has gotten enacted? One election she has gotten overturned? California still has Diebold entrenched despite her lawsuit, though she walked away with $76,000. Her source wasn't so lucky, he's facing three felony counts.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
157. If Bev was so worried about Diebold trying to discredit her -
If Bev was so worried about Diebold trying to discredit her then wouldn't she try as hard as she could to be on the up-and-up? Wouldn't she try to work as honestly as she could and not give the sharks free chum?

This 990 gives anyone and everyone reason to question Bev. Math does not lie, as David said.

The most important thing for Bev is the full accounting of every dime that came across her palm. By not doing that for so long and then by doing such a lousy job of it, she basically just invited 100% of the criticism that she is now getting.

It's not David's fault. It's not Andy's fault. It's not even Diebold's fault. Bev is responsible for her own company, no one else. As such, she is responsible when she screws up this badly.

Bev burned a lot of bridges here by the way that she treated David, Andy, the Admins and 99.9% of the DUers who only wanted to help her.

She has no one to blame for that but herself.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #157
192. I can't understand why people can't see this
simple point.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
41. Anybody listen to Thom Hartmann this weekend and his
interview with his "good friend" Bev Harris? What's with Thom? I mean he's a really smart guy. Hasn't he figured her out yet? I mean she can talk like she's making sense. She told Thom that they were starting a campaign for everyone to shoot videos on everything they see going on that doesn't seem right during the elections. Then she called for people to donate their old videocams for people to use.

Sure it sounds good. Bev always seems to sound good until you find out what her real agenda is. I mean she fooled me for awhile, not enough to send her money, but enough to think she was trying to do something positive, but Thom Hartmann? Doesn't anyone know him well enough to clue him in?
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. contact Thom Hartmann here:
To contact Thom Hartmann, send an e-mail to

thom followed by the @ symbol followed by thomhartmann.com

(we've had to break it up like this to foil the webcrawling robots that scoop up addresses and sell them to spammers).

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. Thanks but it's not up to me or even other DUers. His friends
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 06:20 PM by Cleita
are the ones who have to bring this to him. I'm surprised Randi Rhodes hasn't told him what Bev did to her. Or, maybe she has and he's not listening. From us it's just gossip, innuendo or even worse slander.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
49. Worth reading (link from OP)!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

There is quite a bit of info here. You may wish to particularly read starting at post 72. (Ignore the clownbots... I think they've pretty much been granitized)

There is an interesting bit at post #65.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
50. Does this look unusual:
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 05:43 PM by troubleinwinter
$45,000 in printing. For what? For a coupla cases of photocopy paper and some copier & printer ink cartridges?

Nearly 12% of Total Functional Expenses. Seems out-of-whack to me.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. This one just mystefies me.
I was office manager for a construction company at $35-45 million/year. ALL contracts were government... hospitals, prisons, schools. I KNOW PAPERwork!!!!! Gov't, architects, inspectors, subcontractors, etc., etc.

I cannot imagine we ever spent $2,000 on copypaper, ink, toner,and blueprints, and the like.

This line 38 has me amazed.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. where's the paper?
what was it for?

:kick:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. The line item is "Printing and Publications" $45,215
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. I used to publish a few alternative magazines and newspapers
$45,000 in printing costs would cover well over 325,000 16 page newspapers or 320,000 48 page newsprint magazines -- including folding, cutting and stapling costs.

For four-color sep glossy brochures -- I'd guess it would cover around 100,000 or so.

Any of those would be a large garage full of printed paper products.



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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. EGADS!!!!! "a large garage full"
:wow:
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. 5,000 used to fill the backseat of my car past the window
For a 16 page newspaper, that would cost about $700-$800 around here. They get a lot cheaper the larger the print run, too.



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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #81
162. My guess about the printing costs
...is that running the Black Box Voting.org website is included in this. This would include hosting costs, programming costs, and any costs to maintain the site. It could be possible that Black Box Voting is "leasing" the site from Bev Harris and paying her for use of it. I'd be interested in a more detailed list of the "printing and publication" expenses.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #162
166. Well, looking up the domain record...
Edited on Sun Jul-02-06 02:27 PM by benburch
it is in her name.

It comes from http://www.tigertech.net/plans.shtml whose most expensive plan is $20 per month, though of course, you can purchase additional storage and etc to add on to that.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #166
167. Uhhhh, hold on.......some FACTS
TigerTech kicked Bev Harris off their network YEARS ago. For using their servers to send out spam.

How do I know this? Because I've seen Roxanne's records.......because, you see, it was ROXANNE who registered that domain and paid for it for months FOR THE CAUSE. Not for Bev Harris and NOT so she could use it to take the .com domain from David Allen.

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #167
175. Well, the domain records don't lie, usually.
Edited on Mon Jul-03-06 12:35 AM by benburch
Let me check another source...

Internet says;

http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=blackbo...

Domain ID:D98329399-LROR
Domain Name:BLACKBOXVOTING.ORG
Created On:09-Jul-2003 15:45:32 UTC
Last Updated On:10-Mar-2006 22:03:02 UTC
Expiration Date:09-Jul-2011 15:45:32 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:tuPnczR74HLudOJk
Registrant Name:Bev Harris
Registrant Organization:Talion.com
Registrant Street1:ATTN: CALL TO GET PREFERRED ADDRESS FOR LEGAL NOTICES
Registrant Street2:c/o Tiger Technologies LLC
Registrant Street3:PO Box 7596, Dept W7940
Registrant City:Berkeley
Registrant State/Province:CA
Registrant Postal Code:94707-7596
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.5105273131
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:x.o0079400015af418@whois.tigertech.net
Admin ID:tuaDHX6crtydFmXd
Admin Name:Bev Harris
Admin Organization:Talion.com
Admin Street1:ATTN: CALL TO GET PREFERRED ADDRESS FOR LEGAL NOTICES
Admin Street2:c/o Tiger Technologies LLC
Admin Street3:PO Box 7596, Dept W7940
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:CA
Admin Postal Code:94707-7596
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.5105273131
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:x.a007940001dcb530@whois.tigertech.net
Tech ID:tubyRCUV47fjRmVL
Tech Name:Bev Harris
Tech Organization:Talion.com
Tech Street1:ATTN: CALL TO GET PREFERRED ADDRESS FOR LEGAL NOTICES
Tech Street2:c/o Tiger Technologies LLC
Tech Street3:PO Box 7596, Dept W7940
Tech City:Berkeley
Tech State/Province:CA
Tech Postal Code:94707-7596
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.5105273131
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:x.t007940001e89927@whois.tigertech.net
Name Server:NS2.RACKSPACE.COM
Name Server:NS.RACKSPACE.COM

So it is in her name.

Now, whomever talion.com is, they don't have a server at that address right now...

Now, Blackboxvoting.org resolves to 72.3.135.10

That resolves to;


72.3.135.10 = < blackboxvoting.org >

OrgName: Rackspace.com Ltd.
OrgID: RSPC
Address: 112 E. Pecan St.
Address: Suite 600
City: San Antonio
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 78205
Country: US
NetRange: 72.3.128.0 - 72.3.255.255
CIDR: 72.3.128.0/17
NetName: RSCP-NET-4
NetHandle: NET-72-3-128-0-1
Parent: NET-72-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS.RACKSPACE.COM
NameServer: NS2.RACKSPACE.COM
Comment:
RegDate: 2004-10-04
Updated: 2005-02-25
RAbuseHandle: ABUSE45-ARIN
RAbuseName: Abuse Desk
RAbusePhone: 1-210-892-4000
RAbuseEmail: abuse@rackspace.com

And Tiger Technologies, LLC is


64.71.157.135 = < zoidberg.tigertech.net >

OrgName: Hurricane Electric
OrgID: HURC
Address: 760 Mission Court
City: Fremont
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94539
Country: US
NetRange: 64.71.128.0 - 64.71.191.255
CIDR: 64.71.128.0/18
NetName: HURRICANE-2
NetHandle: NET-64-71-128-0-1
Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.HE.NET
NameServer: NS2.HE.NET
NameServer: NS3.HE.NET
Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
RegDate: 2000-04-19
Updated: 2001-04-24
RTechHandle: ZH17-ARIN
RTechName: Hurricane Electric
RTechPhone: 1-510-580-4100
RTechEmail: hostmaster@he.net

So, you are correct! Bev Harris hosts with Rackspace, or a reseller of Rackspace and Tiger re-sells Hurricane Electric.

Which means that her domain record is in violation of ICANN rules because it no longer contains valid contact information!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #175
177. Talion
was Bev's PR firm

Talion.com

COMPANY DESCRIPTION

Media contacts - personal, skilled telephone contacts to editors and producers by experienced publcists - very affordable, paid by the contact at an average of just $5 per contact. One of the largest PR firms in the USA.

That's pretty funny in light of thr Keith O fiasco.


Bev Harris owns Talion.com, a publicity firm, and has been a professional writer for 10 years. She is the author of "How to Unbezzle a Fortune", a free online report with tips on how to identify accounting fraud and recover embezzled funds, a report that has become an underground hit among business owners who have been victimized. Talion.com was created in 1997 in Scottsdale, Arizona.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #177
179. The Top 10 Ways to Spot Accounting Fraud by Bev Harris (Dudley)

The Top 10 Ways to Spot Accounting Fraud

Originally Submitted on 8/20/98.

I don't know why so few people admit that they've been duped by bookkeepers. I never kept it under my hat, never saw any reason to. Once, my accountant embezzled $40,000. I eventually recovered $156,000. No one talks about their personal experiences with sticky-fingered accountants, that is, unless you mention it FIRST. Then EVERYONE tells you their own story. Embezzlement, it seems, is as widespread as chicken pox and just as embarrassing.

1. Never wants to take a vacation.

There's a reason, and it's not workaholism. Bookkeepers behaving badly like to be in a position to intercept phone calls and correspondence. And as for the boss rifling through their desk to find something when they're out of the office -- that would be unbearable, of course!

2. Always has more work to do than can possibly get finished during normal working hours

So much, in fact, that they have to stay after everyone else goes home. Or, if you'll let them, they like to take the work home. This might not be the loyalty you expect: unsupervised work lets the bookkeeper tamper with records with less chance of discovery.

3. A tattletale. Likes to point out incompetence of other employees.

Pointing fingers at others puts an alibi in place, should you discover something amiss. Dan doesn't collect all his accounts. The deposit seemed too small? (It's Dan). Sharon hangs around the office when she doesn't belong there. There is postage missing? (Could be Sharon) Linda is disorganized. Why is this letter misfiled? (Linda is sloppy) Maybe the bookkeeper deposited some of Dan's deposit in her own account, and also purloined the postage. Linda's letter might be misfiled because the bookkeeper didn't want an auditor to see it.

4. Volunteers to take care of details that should be handled by the principals


-- helping by picking up signature cards when you open a new bank account, for example.

The more details the bookkeeper handles, the more opportunity for sticky fingers, and the easier it is to cover things up.

5. Likes to pick up the mail, even if it makes more sense for a lower-level employee to take on that task.

The mail is both tempting and frightening to employees who steal. Checks come in the mail. So do unexpected notices that might tip you off to their theft.

6. Acts like bookkeeping tasks are as difficult as brain surgery, and twice as complex.

I dump any bookkeeper who can't explain things to me in terms I can understand. That goes double for accountants who respond to my nosy questions by taking offense. --She acts like she doesn't TRUST me!-- Yes. When they guilt trip you, watch your back.

7. Tells little fibs, perhaps unrelated to accounting

Little lies tell big stories about people's character.

8. Seems to feel that the company owes something; as if he has done more than could be expected of any reasonable person

In fact, most employees who take things really DO believe the company owes it to them. They may start by ...well, borrowing... then explain it turning it into a theft by deciding you don't pay them enough.

9. Prints in precise, tidy letters, but can't seem to find things when you ask; shuffles some things into messy little piles.

Aha! This is a really good tip-off. People's habits aren't usually so schizo -- they are either consistently messy or compulsively tidy. Accountants, more often than not, fall into the tidy category. If you've got one that's tidy and messy at the same time, start spot-checking everything that looks messy.

10. Volunteers to take the following things off your busy shoulders:

1) Interfacing with auditors 2) personally making the police report if an item turns up missing 3) IRS correspondence
____________________________________________

About the Submitter

This piece was originally submitted by BJ Dudley, author of HOW TO UNBEZZLE A FORTUNE, who can be reached at BJ_Dudley@bigfoot.com, or visited on the web. BJ Dudley wants you to know: You might want to check out her other reports, including HOW TO RAISE A CASH INJECTION: Lotsa Li'l Cash Cows and a Few Big Moolas, and HOW TO MARKET YOUR BOOK TO ASSOCIATIONS AND NEWSLETTERS.
Copyright 97, 98, 99, 00, 2001 CoachVille


Dudley is Bev Harris's married name.

Also authored "HOW TO RAISE A CASH INJECTION: Lotsa Li'l Cash Cows and a Few Big Moolas"

"Li'l Cash Cows" reminds me of when donations from DU members were referred to on her site as "chump change".


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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #179
186. Do you think this is really fraud?
It *could* be just unconscionably gross misfeasance by somebody too emotionally wrecked to keep up with even the minimum details of her business, much less save a nation from the perils of Electronic voting. I think we ought to go forward on that basis anyway. File the complaints needed to get all of this audited, and then let the government figure out if this *isn't* misfeasance.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #186
187. I have never said I thought it was fraud.
Edited on Mon Jul-03-06 03:48 PM by troubleinwinter
I do wonder why it seems so difficult to obtain a complete public disclosure of the documents as required by law, and wonder why there appear to be so many errors and annomalies on the parts that have been released. I wonder why a filing on nearly a million dollars evidently was not prepared by a CPA.

I have not accused her of fraud. The embezzlement points are Bev's, not mine.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #187
188. Right.
I knew that. But when somebody who styles herself an expert on fraud appears to behave in a manner that seems to violate the very points of conduct she has set forth, the question does naturally arise.

It seems VERY odd not to involve a CPA and a law firm to make sure all of the ducks are in a row, doesn't it?

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #177
185. Is Talion defunct?
If so, then her ICANN record is "illegal" as it no longer properly identifies who to contact. Yes, it has her name, but no, it does not have a valid contact address as the web hosting site that kicked her out would certainly not act as her agent any more.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #185
190. I can't find anything for Talion after 2004 except...
Apparently Talion and BBV overlapped as late as August 2004, using the same office address.

8-12-2004 Can you email me privately with contact info -- would like to take this up the line to media and authorities for further scrutiny. Bev Harris, Talion.com

Bev Harris, Talion - Red Dog Inexpensive Publicity Services,
330 SW 43rd St. PMB K-547 Renton WA 98055

Blackboxvoting.org
330 SW 43rd St. Suite K, Box 547, Renton WA 98055.


Bev Harris
March, 2000


If you have a book that's a good fit, you'll be pleasantly surprised at how accessible the weekly "alternative" newspapers are. Over 100 alternative newsweeklies are scattered through major cities, and they offer impressive circulations. For example, the mainstream Seattle Post Intelligencer, a large metro newspaper, has a circulation of about 190,000. The LA Weekly, an alternative paper, has a circulation of 220,000! The key to getting your book covered is to make sure it's a good match to this niche.

Here are some of the book review topics that alternative papers have bitten into recently: digital music, an eerie science fiction novel, a book about how to pass a drug test, a spiritual New Age book, and a travel guidebook described as "a subversive masterpiece about travel."

If your book can be described as "counterculture" or "underground," you've got a good chance. If your book is about rap, rock, alternative music, or heavy metal, they may jump at the chance to review it. If you have a book that ties into the arts, or anything that appeals to youth or singles in their twenties, you may catch their interest. Here is fresh contact information on some alternative newsweeklies. Most are quite accessible using the main telephone number. Many direct e-mails are provided too, and I also mention a few papers that you may not want to contact.


Bev Harris is with Talion - "Red Dog Publicity." You can reach the firm by phone at 425/228-7131 or e-mail via talion@ix.netcom.com . You'll find additional contact information at their Website, http://www.talion.com/red-dog.htm .

http://www.pma-online.org/scripts/shownews.cfm?id=363


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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #185
193. Supposedly
the second BBV books was published by Talion.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
61. $600,000.00++ in the bank !!!!! holy crap! n/t
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. That was as of 6/05
WHo knows how much there is now.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. All that money
and she doesn't even have it in an interest bearing account!

That's insane. Just the interest on that money, should cover most of her real expenses. And that's after she's take out $300,000 or so for herself and her sister-in-law.

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
65. Bev's claiming she paid Andy $4000/month!
Bottom of page 5.

Give me a break. Maybe someone from Andy's family would like to go after her for this claim?

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. I think this is true, however
Andy only worked 5-1/2 months in the FY before being fired. The amounts on the form are not enetered correctly on page 5, Part V-A... they should be year total amounts.

Also, there is the question of taking payroll taxes out of his checks, and not making monthly IRS deposits as shown on Addendum line 60.

Here is what Andy had to say about it when he was unemployed and quite ill in March:

Andy_Stephenson (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-08-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #11

15. Non Profits don't file taxes... Tue Mar-08-05 04:02 PM by Andy_Stephenson

Well perhaps they do. However, based on the performance of BBV not filing and paying my federal 941 and unemployment taxes. Don't hold your breath.

I am still waiting on my W4 (W-2) forms. The Board of Directors says I have the records for that...but hmmm I never wrote a single paycheck...and I have everyone of my pay stubs to show taxes were being taken out. So instead of filing my taxes early and getting the much needed tax refund...I am having to file a complaint with the IRS over BBV.orgs failure to file 941 reports.

Additionally...if BBV.org had paid my unemployment taxes I most likely could be getting unemployment right now...and not have to depend solely on donations to make ends meet. But thats ok...Bev and the org is sitting on close to a million dollars right now. Money I hope she chokes on. Sorry...I am not feeling to friendly right now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


IRS penalties for not filing such deposits is an important issue to consider- would tax penalties be responsible handling of donated funds?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Did Bev deducted payroll taxes
from his salary?

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Yes,
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:29 PM by troubleinwinter
according to Andy's comment in post #73, saying, "I have everyone of my pay stubs to show taxes were being taken out.".

Bev confirms the taxes owed for the fiscal year. They were not deposited monthly for the entire year. They were evidently paid sometime after the close of the fiscal year befor 5/15/2006 when this paper was dated.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. Good, I hope someone kept them
Also the section where she lists compensation for Officiers, Directors... Very irregular to state it has an ambiguous monthly amount. It should be an exact total of the gross that person was paid.

If a CPA prepared this return they should lose their license.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. No CPA
touched this form. That is obvious.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. If you were a CPA
would you want to work with Bev's books???? :eyes:
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #92
131. No, but I would love to AUDIT them!
At $150 an hour.
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tigersumtin Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
178. one of Andy's relatives is here
and very interestred.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #178
180. Welcome, Andy's family!
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tigersumtin Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. Thanks
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #178
182. HUGS!
How are you doing, my friend?
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tigersumtin Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. How u doing Ben
Im doing fine, Hope your doing the same. TT
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. Doing OK here.
Struggling to find funding for my radio network, but we'll manage that somehow!
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
72. And the grudge match continues.
I don't care if you don't get along with Bev Harris.

(hide thread)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. it's not about getting along - it's about soliciting donations to audit FL
and doing no such thing. She collected a MILLION DOLLARS from people like US to AUDIT FLORIDA. Then she KEPT THE MONEY. Meanwhile Andy was dying and couldn't get medicaid or unemployment because she didn't pay taxes on him.

But yeah, it's just because we don't "get along."
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. its about transparency
that shouldn't be so difficult.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
79. WOW, that is too bad.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
86. Gosh, we were all such dupes
That damn con sunk her claws into a whole lot of money.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #86
159. And threatened to sue DU in the process
and alienated Keith Olbermann, who wanted to cover the theft of the election

and threatened DUers who only wanted to help

and on and on and on ....
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #159
164. Bev said: "Olbermann really did not ever contact me."
RHODES: ...we raised all this money and then we don't hear from you, and it was just really disheartening, I gotta tell you. A lot of people, apparently, are starting to say stuff about you and it kind of freaks me out. 'Cause how are we supposed to follow this story without you?

HARRIS: Well, the problem is Olbermann really did not ever contact me. I mean he really didn't

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/bev_randi.mp3
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #164
168. Yes, he did contact her - she managed to screw it up
I'll find the link where Keith explains how unprofessional she was and downright abusive to his staff. I don't blame him for not wanting to talk to her after the way she acted.

:eyes:
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. Here is the link
Keith Olbermann's words:

What Ms. Harris has left herself open to is a charge that as much as any interest she has in the justifiable public concern over our most precious right - the right to a reliable, honest election - she may also have an interest in making her own documentary, on her own schedule, for her own purposes.

What Ms. Harris has also left herself - and by extension anybody who is advocating investigation, or merely covering the story - open to, is the charge of grandstanding, of tin-foil hatting, of being somebody who bursts in to a room and screams at public officials, videotape running all the time, artificially creating news.


Yes, Bev's BS has set off Keith's meter. Oh, no! Perhaps Diebold has gotten to Keith Olbermann!! :eyes:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008/
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #164
176. Also one of the reasons that Bev went over the deep end
And started the process resulting in Andy getting fired
is because she thought he was going behind her back to
get himself on Olbermann (When actually he was busy with his
sister's funeral)
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
87. kick
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
88. Kos
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Techno Dog Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
89. Kick n/t
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
100. Another example
of carelessness/sloppines/ineptness:

Amount is entered on the wrong line at Part III e. Should be entered at line f.

Stoooopid.
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Jazz2006 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
102. I wasn't here when all of this transpired but...
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 01:13 AM by Jazz2006
it looks like bullshit and smells like bullshit, and I have no problem with saying I'm glad I didn't step in it.

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Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
108. Some comments..
1-The 990 is sloppily prepared, with footing errors and a missing number or 2. It seems highly unlikely that a licensed accountant prepared this for that reason.

2-They are reporting $384,094 in expenses on Part 1; as someone already pointed out, the detailed expenses on Part II show a total of $384, 094 but add up to a different number. If you foot the total column (A), the expenses total $407,459. If you foot the 3 detail columns down to their subtotals, then total them up, they total $407,345. (There are various crossfooting differences in the detail expense category.)

It's impossible to know what the errors mean: the person doing it may have had no familiarity with the form or accounting or numbers for that matter.

3. Someone noted that the balance sheet on Part IV is missing a fund balance. That number would just be the difference between the total assets presented and the liabilities shown. I think it's just another example of unfamiliarity or carelessness with the form/accounting.

4. The details of functional expenses on Part III show a total of $280,675 but the details add up to $269,320. However, there is an addendum to that Part on the last page with the remaining expenses. The preparer should have included a note on the schedule referencing that.

5. The 990 doesn't include a cash flow statement as one of its schedules, so I did one based on the limited information in the filing. I am assuming that this was their first year of fiscal operation?
If this was not the first year, I would have expected opening numbers on the balance sheet, but there are none. (If there should be opening numbers, then what I show belong would not be correct.)

Cash flow equals revenues less expenses first adjusted by financial activities which impact cash, but do not appear in the P & L, and then adjusted by P&L items which do not impact cash as well as certain balance sheet changes.

From looking at the P&L, I am assuming that none of the reported line items are non-cash in nature. You cannot be sure without knowing the details.(Depreciation on equipment is an example of a non-cash expense.)

Using the reported P&L and the balance sheet, this goes as follows:

a) $588,210 (net income) - $4,000 Accounts Receivable (in revenue, but not yet collected as cash) - $30,819 Equipment (paid for out of cash but not charged as an expense) + $72,050 Accounts Payable (amounts expended but not yet paid in cash) = $625,441.

Using a P&L based on the higher expense number discussed above, and the balance sheet, this goes as follows:

b) $564,845 (net income) - $4,000 Accounts Receivable (in revenue, but not yet collected as cash) - $30,819 Equipment (paid for out of cash but not charged as an expense) + $72,050 Accounts Payable (amounts expended but not yet paid in cash) = $602,076.

Since the reported cash is $613,309, version a) comes up $12,132 over and version b) comes up $11,233 under.

5. The form is must be signed by an officer of the corporation. The person (Vickie Karp) signing it shows a 'president' title and is listed on Part V-a as a board member. I am assuming that she is listed as the organization's president in their corporate papers. That's not unusual altho I don't know why the other name is printed below hers.

As I said above, without more information it's impossible to know what gave rise to the inconsistencies noted. I did see an accounting fee listed in the expense details, which could easily just be book-keeping expenses. If I was going to opine based on pure SWAG, I would guess that the preparer of the return did not understand what they were doing in this area.(The amount shown as equipment as one example could easily be wrong from an accounting viewpoint, which would throw off my cash calculation.) Also, it's clear that no one double checked the return, since that should have caught the footing & clerical errors.

Caveat emptor (of both this post and the return.)

hth

PT (who once played a CPA in real life.)


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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. This return seems to open up at least a few cans of worms
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 04:47 AM by DoYouEverWonder
I believe 2004 was the first year of the company, so the zero opening balances would be correct.

However, it's in the Payroll that BBV might have some major problems. Andy claims that Bev did not pay the payroll taxes that she had deducted. Supposedly, she didn't deposit these funds until the next year. I don't know if the same rules apply to every business, but I pay my folks on Friday and I have to transfer the funds to the US Treasury by the following Wed. One day late and penalties are incurred. Of course, the later the deposit, the higher the penalties.

If she fooled around with paying the IRS, it makes you wonder if that even filed or paid State and Federal Unemployment Compensation. Not to mention State Tangible and Intangible Taxes. Does the state of WA have State Income Tax? That might be another problem for BBV.

BTW: I'm not an accountant, but I run a company with 25+ employees and spend lot's of money on a good accountant to keep me honest.
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Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. taxes
I agree that it's a ill-conceived idea to not remit payroll taxes, not the least of which is that officers & directors of a company can be held personally liable were the company to go out of business with the taxes outstanding! The return does say that the taxes were paid the next fiscal year; I assume that they have been or will be assessed interest and penalties. Given the amount of cash on hand, my assumption is that the delay was due to bad business practices rather than anything more devious, but who knows.

Some of the other wage related stuff that is state controlled can be subject to a variety of practices, that likely vary by state. In NYS, you can self-insure for workers' compensation, and unemployment insurance can be pay as you go.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #109
111. WA doesn't have state income tax n/t
:kick:
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #108
112. Bev specifically stated that an accounting firm
that specialized in non-profits was working on her books. This form shows this claim to be a lie.

This begs the quesions, why lie about this?

The possible answers to this question do not bode well for Bev and BBV.org
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Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #112
115. It might be..
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 09:51 AM by Princess Turandot
(because I've seen this happen) that they paid someone to do bookkeeping, but did the 990 themselves, especially given the delay in its submission to the IRS.(There is a $4,000 expense for accounting on the expense statement.)There are tons of small accounting firms/ 1 person shops who provide bookkeeping services; for non-profits which are fairly simple, the bookkeeping work may well have been done by a clerical employee of an accountant. Having the records accurately recorded is one thing; translating the records to this type of report requires someone to understand accounting at least to some degree. So, I don't think that the report shows her to be either lying or telling the truth in that one regard.

Notwithstanding the above, one might wonder about how careful they've been with the stewardship of their resources if they can't complete a report which is arithmetically accurate! When I've made clerical errors on tax returns (my own, no one else's :))it's usually because I was drinking too much bourbon while fooling with my calculator.

Added: The lack of interest income is curious. Unless the $$ was kept in a shoebox, interest would have been earned. It is possible that the reason my cash flow exercise 'b' came up with less cash than they are showing might mean that the interest is actually in the bank or investment account but was not picked up on the revenue & expense statement.(My guess would be that the higher expense number derived by re-adding the expenditures is likely the correct one; that's the 'b' example)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. Bev claimed the books were being handled
by a firm that specialized in non-profits. She also later said she was "surprised" to learn that the accountants had requested an extension for filing the 990. This would imply they were handling it all.

To date, Bev has not named the firm.

Bev has also used a make believe CPA called "Sonja Johnson" in the past to scam me into revealing my company's books during a dispute over royalties. Bev pretended to be this person, going so far as to set up a phony email address to operate from. When called upon to explain why her CPA was not listed in the registry of accredited CPAs by Washington state and to provide a phone number I could speak with her accountant at, she clammed up.

The street address "Sonja" used was a property that belonged to Andy Stephenson (he was unaware of the scam).

Any examination of Bev's actions, the repeated lies, the scams, the irrational outbursts, all point to e person that CANNOT be trusted in ANY endeavor, never mind voting machine reform.

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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #119
154. Would this 'Johnson' be related to the 'Johnsen' that filed her ...
Exemption Application? That one is a Lisa Johnsen.

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #154
156. One is Lisa with a law firm,
Edited on Sat Jul-01-06 08:28 PM by troubleinwinter
the other is "Sonja" who !!!!claimed!!! to be with an ????"accounting"???? firm.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #119
163. Andy and termite both told me about this!! n/t
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #119
174. This 990 was NOT prepared by an accounting firm
A CPA or EA (enrolled agent) would have signed the IRS form at the bottom where it says preparers signature.

A bookkeeper would not have done so.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
113. Kick
Back up.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
121. kick n/t
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
124. The Randi Rhodes audio is embarrassing
This is a show you must listen to, so you really understand.

Warning, it is painfully embarrassing to here this...

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/bev_randi.mp3
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
127. Kick.(nt)
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
129. Mods - Thanks for moving this back to GD.
Really appreciated.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
132. K & R
This needs to be spread far and wide, and as soon as possible, thanks Kelvin!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
138. It's a GOOD THING BEV READS THESE THREADS
so that she can find out that it is required to register a nonprofit organization in her own state!

She has been soliciting funds without being registered (a violation of WA law) for two years without being registered.

Here is the origingal post about this:



Today, I got to wondering if BBV had sent the copy of 990 to WA SoS as required. I called the office to see if they'd gotten a copy. The woman said, "Oh! A day or two after I spoke to you and just as I was finishing up the letter to them about their registration compliance, Black Box Voting office called here to ask 'if they had forgotten to register' (laugh). They seemed very willing to cooperate." I said, "Well, they don't have much choice but to cooperate, do they?" She said, "No, they don't."

I thought BBV had filed their 501(c)(3) IRS tax exemption letter with the SoS, but they have not. They have not registered as a non-profit organization in the state to solicit donations. The 990 is due with the state 2 weeks after the Federal filing date. That hasn't been received either.

The woman in the office said, "If you are considering sending them a donation, I think you might want to wait 45 days to see if this is worked out." I said, "Oh, I am NOT going to send a donation." She then said, "If you'd like to file a complaint with the State Attorney General, here is his phone number...."
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. Seems that if Bev didn't read the threads here
she wouldn't know how to comply with the law at all.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. She only complies to the extent we force her to.
And I really hope to see her up on charges SOON.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #139
150. Well, she DID say that she has to go to DU for real 'critiques' ...
she should be saying 'Thanks!' instead of threatening people w/lawsuits & sending Jim March after them! If she'd keep the herd home instead of sending them here she could get more useful info! O8)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I like DU because it helps vet out arguments.
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 08:00 AM by BevHarris
I often transport info from here to the other location, after it is criticized. I get more forceful critiques from DU members than from BBV members, who tend to be mostly supportive all the time.


Ummmm, I think what she's describing are bevbots!

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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. OMG! too bad this isn't the beginning of the thread
Maybe this should be a new thread, but then, I like the caterpillar threads.

Next some dolt/puppet will come over here, make snide
comments, and demand that we explain to them ever damn thing
already posted on this thread, even though it is right here.

That is what is going on now at the 990 thread over at Election Reform.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. What is his phone number?
I think anyone who donated might have cause to complain. The money was not used for the specified purpose. She fundraised to AUDIT FLORIDA. That's why everyone donated. Search DU for tons of evidence. I personally sent out emails to my list, much to my regret.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #138
143. You know, it's a good thing we have all that experience with the WA SOS.
Edited on Sat Jul-01-06 12:39 AM by sfexpat2000
Karma, baby, karma. :toast:

/oops
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #143
144. Very nice, helpful and knowledgeable staff, eh!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #144
145.  Before this is over, they'll have a movie deal.
:rofl:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #145
148. I can see it now:
Edited on Sat Jul-01-06 08:40 AM by troubleinwinter
Bev Harris stars as Bev Harris in "Bev Harris"!!!!

Production is behind schedule because of the prima donna. Two directors have withdrawn from the project because of her abusive behavior and temper tantrums.



----------------------------------------------------
prima donna ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prm, prm)
n.
A temperamental, conceited person.
----------------------------------------------------
prima donna
n 1: a vain and temperamental person


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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #148
194. I don't know
Edited on Tue Jul-04-06 10:07 PM by Kelvin Mace
after all, Leona Helmsley us out of prison.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #138
160. You have GOT to be kidding!
This just doesn't get any better, does it?

Meanwhile, there are many great groups that are working for election reform that are struggling to make ends meet.
:banghead:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. Well...
It actually does get 'better'....WORSE, actually.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #161
169. Why am I not surprised??
Oy vey. Bev, how can we miss you if you won't go away??
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
152. Hah - lots of Tax Help & Relief Ads By Google on this page
Maybe BBV.org has been reading the Ads By Google on this page:


Fast Results 800-320-1400
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
165. NEW INFO
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tibbir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
189. Whoever prepared this return
used the Filled-in Forms Section at the IRS site and that's why numbers don't sum or carry over properly from one point to another. Any first year accountant should be able to do a better job. In addition the balance sheet was never completed and Accounts Receivable are not carried into the main column. What a mess!!

She didn't pay her payroll taxes on time either.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #189
191. Are you saying she used "demo" numbers
from an IRA web site or am I misunderstanding?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #191
195. I think she is saying
that it looks like it was done on a lame-ass online program that won't even do the math.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #195
196. OK, thanks for clarification
I was confused for a moment.

Well, I think at this point that the evidence is overwhelimng that Bev lied about having professional accountants.

The form appears to have been filled out by Bev herself. It is incorrect, and provide more evidence of mismanagement of funds.

Lying about the organization's books raises all sorts of red flags about ALL aspects of Bev's actions and claims.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #195
197. Duplicate deleted
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:41 AM by Kelvin Mace
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
198. Here: Qui Tam $68,500 donation, BBV. Not listed in tax filing.
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