If we lose this year's elections, there may not be an election in 2008.
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:05 AM by Cyrano
Unless we can win either the house or senate this year, I don't believe we will see a presidential election in 2008. For the past six years, the Bush/Cheney mob and their cohorts in congress have done whatever they wanted to do without any restraints on them.
Two questions: (1)Why would they give up power? (2)Who's going to make them give it up?
These pigs have used power like a kid in a candy shop, they love it, and they can't get enough of it. They can do what they want to, when they want to, and to whomever they want to do it to.
They've proved to us time and again that they have no moral boundaries in their use and abuse of that power. Gee, isn't it great to invade any country you feel like invading? Snoop into anyone's conversations and financial affairs? Being able to detain anyone at will for any reason that pops into your head? Hell, you can even disappear them to one of your undisclosed torture chambers. Want to kill them? No problem.
Enumerating a full list of their abuses of power is virtually impossible as they've been doing it one or more times a day, every single day, for five and a half years now. And those are just the ones we know about.
And let's not forget the words that King George himself uttered. "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, as long as I'm the dictator." Anyone think the sociopath didn't mean those words?
So who's going to make them give up their power? The media? The courts? Don't hold your breath. Can We The People force them to give it up? Aside from all the Audie Murphy types who have a cache of guns and other exotic weapons, I don't think so. King George, Darth Cheney and their henchmen own the police, the military, the means to eavesdrop on us anywhere, anytime, and the ability to infiltrate any group that tries to organize an armed rebellion. Small groups could cause some damage, but doing away with our dictatorship would remain a fantasy.
Everyone who thinks the above scenario isn't possible is fooling themselves. Canceling an election would be no problem for them. A MIHOP incident followed by a declaration of martial law and a "temporary" suspension of elections would be all that would be needed.
So how would they finally be removed from power? Well, the rest of the world might band together and try to overthrow them. But that would result in the launching of every nuclear weapon in our arsenal. The fundies would get their Armageddon.
The other possibility is a military coup. If this were to happen, it would be a tossup of whether the generals would retain power or reestablish the rule of law and what used to be our constitutional government.
Although I think that they will hold on to the pretext of a transition of power and have a new figurehead president, but the power behind it remains the same. But this november will be the test of your theory. If they get by with stealing another election it is all over for us.
8. Just so readers will know that not everyone here is so pessimistic
There will be elections in 2008. We also have a good chance to do well in 2006. We have had troubled times before and still had elections. We had elections during the height of the Civil War, which was the most tumultuous time in our history.
There won't be a coup either. In order for such things to happen, you have to have the will of the people. It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican, there would never be support for such a thing, be it calling off elections or a coup of some sort.
11. I'll make a bet with anyone on DU, if you are still here in 2008
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:14 AM by OKNancy
$100.00 to DU if there are no elections in 2008
--- If the Republicans have so much power, how do we know so much about what they are up to? What I intend to do is not sit around and wring my hands, but actually work the system and do what I can to elect Democrats.
13. There's a difference between pessimism and realism.
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 08:32 AM by Cyrano
Give me one iota of evidence that contradicts the scenario I've laid out above. Today's situation can't be compared to the Civil War. Back then, the North was united, as was the South. This time, it's the government itself that is the enemy of us all.
And as far as your thinking that a coup would require the will of the people, nothing has required our input, permission, or will for five and a half years now. Do you think a coup could be prevented with fairy dust or wishful thinking?
I find the scenario I've laid out above abhorrent. But why would Bush, Cheney, or any of the rest of the criminals who have stolen our country care what you or I think?
I wish you'd refute what I've laid out with something other than the power of positive thinking. Tell me why and how I'm wrong.
(P.S. I've got to get some chores done. I'll reply to your reply as soon as possible.)
How stupid would that be? Why not just steal them again?
"Back then, the North was united, as was the South"
United? What history did you learn? Not familiar with Maryland? The draft riots? The uneasy alliance of some of the union? The Copperheads? And the South also had its conflicts especially in the creation of the Confederate government.
" And as far as your thinking that a coup would require the will of the people, nothing has required our input, permission, or will for five and a half years now. "
Really things like the Iraq War which had over 70% to start? Or the Patriot Act which was grudingly supported? Or the 2002 & 2004 elections which while tainted still showed a great deal of support for these policies.
"Give me one iota of evidence that contradicts the scenario I've laid out above."
Straw man. It is your supposition and leap of faith that makes the argument in the first place.
There will be no cancelled elections. It doesn't even make sense when looked through the frame you have provided. Why eliminate the semblance of consent of the people? Why would an election that one can control represent any serious obstacle to complete domination?
41. Well, I guess I can breath more easily now that you've informed me that
there will be no canceled elections.
What I laid out in the original post was a possible scenario, not a prediction of what will be.
As far as your take on a united North and a united South during the Civil War, of course there were exceptions which is to be expected.
And I stand by the statement that a coup would not require the will of the people. The reference to a coup meant a military coup to take the Bushies out of office. And if they decided to pull one off, who's to stop them?
I do, however, agree with you that they could go on just stealing future elections as they have with past ones. This would be the rational thing to do. The problem is, we're not talking about rational people. We're talking about thugs who want it all and if they can't have it, they'll take it by any means necessary.
None of us wants to see that original scenario come about. But I've learned to expect the worst from the sociopaths who are holding all the levers of power.
look , i don't have any faith in elections anymore . We have had 5 years to try to do something to make certain elections were fair . In 2004 the black boxes gave bush the votes and since then more states have these damn things . RFK jr has the artical in rolling stone and as of right now this is about the only thing out there that may bring awarness and this will only help the dems or progressives the reugs like stealing elections .
I have never seen so much going on daily in politics in my entire 57 years , this seems to have no end with all the wrong doings and all the horrors that continue on .
Whether or not there are 08 elections if we don't fix the voting system we then have no control over the outcome , we need to prevent this from happening again not try to fix it after . You know we won in 2000 and 04 and look where we are now . How much proof does one need to know where the problem lies .
If you are still young and in november and 08 the dems are win and are true to their people then you may have some hope for a reasonable future . If not and you are past 40 you will never see a change before you die . look at all the damage done to the middle class and blue collar worker and the poor are just out of the picture more than ever . Where the hell are all the new jobs going to come from to replace all the ones lost and still many more will go before bush is gone .
So if the midterms are stolen and no one protests in great numbers the we are sunk and will continue toward a full dictatorship and be doomed .
I hope I'm wrong but logic based on what has and is happening tell me I'm not . We let them go too far and now what ? An election is just that , you still have to find ways to fix this mess and it's a big one folks , real big .
A couple of days ago, there was an article in LBN about the financial records spying. There was an administration quote that Bush was 'exercising his emergency economic powers'. Huh?
Now, it's possible that they think the PA gives them the legal means to do this (I doubt it) but when has this administration ever used the term 'emergency powers'? This is a term that dictatorships use when they're seizing power. We should be very concerned that this term is being introduced - it's like they're getting us used to the idea of 'emergency powers'...and notice they've substituted this for 'war powers'. Alarm bells should be going off about this. They can declare anything an 'emergency' and do anything, like cancel elections and whatnot.
27. I hope you're right, but given the backbone we've seen in congress to
date, I'm skeptical about their doing anything.
If the thugs in power had tried to pull off everything they've done within a period of a month or two, you would have heard congress, the media and everyone else screaming their heads off. But their much smarter than that and have been using the "boiling frog" approach.
19. In the movie The Trails of Henry Kissinger Alexander Haig said
In the movie The Trails of Henry Kissinger Alexander Haig said, should we have just sat back and watched as communism took hold in our hemisphere just because the Chilean people were irresponsible enough to elect a Communist president. If they try it here they will justify it by saying the American people are not responsible enough to choose their leadership. They will than say we will do it for you. I wonder who they will pick?
He said that the four martyred churchwomen ran a roadblock in El Salvador when they were kidnapped, brutally beaten, raped, murdered, and left in a ditch to rot. He basically said that they deserved it, and our government did nothing.
44. Sorry. I thought you were referring to a different thread. I responded
to your post a little while ago and while I don't agree with all of it, you're right that they don't have to go to the extreme lengths that I posed. However, I believe that given the choice between finesse and violence, the Bushies will always choose violence. They have a need to prove how macho they are (as long as it's someone else's blood being spilled).
37. Military coup? The regime has spent 5 years purging the military
The way they have strategically concentrated unchecked power throughout the federal government and filled critical positions with (usually unqualified) loyalists is enough evidence for me to believe "they" do not intend to give up control of this country. What are they going to do- just hand over the monster they've created to someone outside the family??
39. I agree with everything you've said except.......
why are we fooling ourselves to think that there will be a real election this year? We're not going to "win" house or senate......and if we do it's only because it's planned that way. Not because we won. Why rig 2 or more elections and then quit rigging them? Shit, they've gotten away with worse, why stop now?
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