WHY is there a war on smoking?

[serryjw]

They donate millions to thugs. Since when does this gov't care about my health>....what is going on??

[Breeze54]

1. One word er...two words.

Insurance premiums.

[aquart]

27. The insurance companies are at war with the tobacco companies?

[Breeze54]

70. No, the states are at war with the tobacco companies due

to higher costs due, to people smoking and being hospitalized. As in state-funded insurance.
That's the basis that the states sued the tobacco companies, to recoup their losses.
That's what I had understood was the reasoning behind them being sued.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/04/four-more-states-sue-tobacco-companies.php

Four more states sue tobacco companies for money owed under 1998 settlement
Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, and Ohio have joined California and New Jersey 'JURIST report'
in suing tobacco companies for money they say is owed under the

1998 Master Settlement Agreement (MSA)
http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi/tobacco/summary.htm

Snip-->

What is the basis of the federal claim on state tobacco settlement funds?

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) contends that existing
Medicaid law (Section 1903(d) of the Social Security Act) compels it to recover
its share (federal Medicaid matching percentage) of third party payments,
collected by states on behalf of Medicaid clients, and argues further that state
tobacco settlement funds are third-party recoveries under the provisions of the
Medicaid statute (See Appendix F for additional details). DHHS has "recouped"
some funds from states that reached an earlier settlement agreement with the Liggett
Group, but temporarily suspended the collection of state tobacco settlement funds
pending comprehensive federal tobacco legislation. <--snip

[sandnsea]

2. Higher taxes

Denigrate and tax, that's what they do.

[TahitiNut]

3. Self-righteous nannies in both parties.

Passive-aggressive, blame-shifting cowards, too.

[Gabi Hayes]

5. hey! smoke all you want!

mind if I come over and take a dump in your living room?

[Mythsaje]

7. Feel free...

but don't say you weren't warned...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1520378&mesg_id=1520378

[Gabi Hayes]

8. same thing if you blow smoke in my face

[Mythsaje]

12. Well, as a friend of mine used to say...

"I'll quit smoking in your airspace when you quit driving in mine."

[Gabi Hayes]

sounds just like a Cato Institute republican! good one

how bout this:

you can have my cigarette when you pry it out of my cold dead lung

[Mythsaje]

21. No, he was pretty much the anti-republican...

He refused to own a car, or even have a license. He either walked or took public transportation everywhere. He took care of an unofficial section of a state park for nearly twenty years--cleaning up garbage and carrying it out for disposal.

Does that stick hurt where it is?

[formernaderite]

35. and by doing so created alot less pollution

than your avg smoker could ever produce.
I kinda hate the anti-smoking crowd, I quit a long time ago, but have never become an anti-smoking nazi. Adults should have the right to kill themselves with whatever substance they chooose. It's fine by me that they can't smoke in workplaces, but perhaps the absolute ban in bars and restaurants is going too far. They could hire smokers to work at these places.

[Rosemary2205]

90. What am I missing?

I'm surprised a guy that concerned about the world at large would demand the right to damage someone else's health by blowing smoke into someone else's lungs. No I'm not saying it's any better or worse than polluting up the world with a car but really, this isn't a contest to see who's the worst is it? I mean, as a progressive, isn't the goal to be always on the lookout for ways improve the planet regardless of what someone else does?

I just sayin.......

[Mythsaje]

96. Killing all fundies would probably improve the planet...

but I don't know any progressives who advocate that sort of thing.

[Telly Savalas]

37. Did you friend grow tobacco in her/his backyard?

Because if not, there were probably substantial vehicle emissions involved in the transportation of the cigarettes.

[Mythsaje]

47. Not to mention all the food he ingested...

that he didn't grow himself.

[Warpy]

42. You'd have to take that dump into their dinner

to make the analogy hold. Then force them to eat it. A gun might help.

I don't care what people do in their own homes. It's when they invade MY space that it becomes MY problem.

Set fire to that thing if you must, just do it outside, OK?

If the weather's that bad, use the gum.

[bbinacan]

49. Gabi

I wouldn't smoke in your living room so this comparison is a little overboard.

[TahitiNut]

101. Funny how, when the foo shits, some just can't wait to wear it.

Intellectual integrity is nowhere to be found in your post.

(1) It's not your living room, or any private space of yours at all. (2) Are you doing anything for yourself? Like wearing a filter mask to protect against contaminants that don't obey laws? Are you obsessed with everything affecting your helath, or just when it's an excuse to play control games over others? (3) Most significantly, what has *my* living room got to do with it? *I'm* not forcing you to smoke, not to smoke, or anything else. Why do you immediately make it personal? (4) Why wear the foo shit? It doesn't look good.

:shrug:

[KyuzoGator]

10. I can't stop at a red light in Orlando without getting cig smoke in my car

The problem isn't whether or not people can smoke (although I have no problem with health insurers discriminating against people who do), it's whether they have the right to do it wherever they want and force everyone around them to breathe carcinogens just because they're jonesing.

[brook]

67. Roll up your window. n/t

[kiahzero]

71. Maybe we should all put on shorts to combat global warming. (n/t)

[KyuzoGator]

78. It's through the A/C vent. nt

[TahitiNut]

103. Learn how to use the A/C controls - the recirculation setting.

Check your family tree - the "Princess And The Pea" must be in there somewhere. :silly:

[WyLoochka]

122. I call baloney

I do not believe that every single time you stop at a red light you get cig smoke in your car. I've driven all over the country and this has not happened to me.

Maybe Orlando is different, but I think your claim is grossly exaggerated. There just aren't that many smokers these days for your claim to be at all plausible.

Now the noxious exhaust fumes one has to endure frequently while stopped at red lights - THAT is something to gripe about.

[bbinacan]

26. Agreed

:smoke:

[novalib]

4. Filthy. Disgusting. ADDICTION.

Smoking is a filthy, digusting addiction that endagers the lives of those who smoke and those who happen to be nearby.

[Mythsaje]

6. The key word here is "addiction."

Why are smokers the only addicts so many progressives can't scare up any sympathy for?

[otherlander]

13. I'm guessing because they do it publicly, and

it affects the people around them and their breathing.

[Mythsaje]

17. So?

It's still an addiction, and a damn rough one.

Maybe some people are just self-righteous enough to give Fundies a run for their money.

[lindisfarne]

30. It's an addiction,but I have far less sympathy if your addiction endangers

my health. I don't have any sympathy for alcoholics who drive drunk, either.

Keep your cigarette smoke out of my lungs and the lungs of any children who are in your presence and I'll suggest prescription and non-prescription alternatives (including therapy) to help you beat the addiction.

[Mythsaje]

50. Since I don't smoke around you or around any children...

I don't even smoke inside with my dogs,

I'll kindly suggest you mind your own business.

[lindisfarne]

105. If your smoke doesn't affect anyone else, then I don't have a problem

with you as long as your smoke never ever affects another non-smoker or child. But so many smokers do smoke in places where it affects others: at the bus stop, near windows/entrance/air intake of ventilation system. On their balcony, from where it wafts into my window. Or in places where it is clearly illegal (I just saw this at a cafe tonight). Or where children are present. Those are the smokers I have problems with.

[novalib]

18. WHAT????!!!!!

Just what are you saying????!!!

That we progressives should show our "sympathy" for people hooked on the filthy disgusting habit of drawing smoke into the lungs and then exhaling it out into the rest of the world by ENABLING those same addicts to continue their filthy disgusting addiction????!!!!!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

I have plenty of sympathy for smoking addicts!!! I rather resent you implication that I do not.

But I RESENT EVEN more the suggestion that we progressives should be "sympathetic" and let smokers continue in their dangerous addiction.

Every effort should be made to convince smokers to get rid of their terrible addiction! And NO steps should be allowed that enable smokers to continue! AND ABSOLUTELY NO steps should EVER be taken that permit addicted smokers to endanger in any way the health of anyone else!!

THAT IS REAL SYMPATHY!!!!

Letting addicted smokers continue in their vile, digusting, filthy, and DANGEROUS addiction is NOT being sympathetic!!!! It is leaving them to DIE!

[Mythsaje]

24. Ah, forced compliance. How progressive. n/t

[novalib]

29. If It Were Up To Me, I'd BAN Tobacco

If it were up to me, I'd ban tobacco all together.

And before you start accusing me of not being "progressive", let me point out the following:

Tobacco is a DANGEROUS substance. It is HIGHLY addictive and causes premature death from cancer, heart disease, and other diseases.

The FDA was established to PROTECT Americans from just that sort of substance!

No one argues (seriously) that asbestos or other dangerous substances should be allowed to be sold. And NO ONE (I hope!) seriously argues that it is anti-progressive to say that the Government should PROTECT us from dangerous substances -- especially dangerous things that we injest!

So just who is progressive now?

The person who wants the government to sit back and allow a dangerous, killing, cancer-causing substance to be sold so that people can become addicted to it, and thereby shorten their lives?

Or the person who demands that the government PROTECT ALL OF US -- INCLUDING ADDICTS!!!!!!

[bbinacan]

40. Let's ban every damned

thing that MAY harm us. Hell, you get more damaging fumes standing on a friggin' street corner. Better yet, let's all live in our own hermetically sealed plastic bubble. Jeez!:smoke: :eyes:

[novalib]

48. Nice Straw Man

Please.

Life has certain risks, and we all realize that there is no way the government can (or should) protect us from, as you say, "every damned thing that may harm us".

But it's a nice straw man argument.

Government should, however, protect us from those substances that are known to cause serious harm and which produce NO good effects.

Tobacco is one such substance. It provides no nutrition. It does n ot assist in transpoortation. It merely addicts and kills.

It kills in a tortuous way.

There is NO good reason to consume such a dangerous addictive substance. It should be banned.

[bbinacan]

57. Ah Jesus

anytime a valid argument is made, the response is always "the straw man". The other word I hate is "meme". Even though I smoke, I find the smell, etc. of marijuana offensive. And, by your rationale, this addictive substance should be banned as well?

[novalib]

59. If you Don't Like Hearing "Straw Man"

Might I suggest that if you don't like hearing "straw man" that you refrain from advancing straw man arguments.

I only use the term when I see someone making a straw man argument.

[bbinacan]

87. OK, I lit a match under the straw man

and then lit a smoke. I hope you don't recoil in terror.

Some of the GOOD effects are economic. I live in NC and for years, countless people have made their living farming this LEGAL product. It provided jobs, taxes, education, etc.

Oh, and the use of straw man and meme are an intellectual cop out. Don't like the argument, many scream these terms. It really becomes tiresome.

BTW, welcome to DU:hi:

[LostinVA]

118. Truly not helping the economy in NC

I lived in NC for many, many years, in the Piedmont area. Many of my friends came from tobacco families. They HATED it. They made little money on it, it was a nasty product to pick and cure (the ooze from the leaves burns and makes you sick), and they continually had to "experiment" with stuff or they wouldn't make any money. As one, all their families wanted to get out of tobacco farming, but were stuck in it. What else is a 65-year-old man without a HS diploma gonna do, especially when all the money is tied up in equipment, etc? Some of them tried soy beans, etc. The younger generations got degrees and out of the family business.

Tobacco does NOT fuel NC's economy, and hasn't for decades and decades.

And, using strawmen and memes IS a copout, I agree.

[bbinacan]

128. Where in NC did you live?

I'm originally from Sanford and now live just up the road in Raleigh. Some of the wealthiest people I knew in Sanford were tobacco farmers. One was a close friend of my family.

[LostinVA]

117. Marijuana has health benefits and, like alcohol, is not inherently

physically bad for you. Tobacco is. If you could take ALL the tar and nicotine out of pure, unprocessed tobacco, it wouldn't be completely deadly.... but that isn't happening, and never will. Nicotine is literally poison.

I smoked +two packs a day for +10 years, and completely understand having that monkey on your back. And, if someone could smoke and ONLY affect themselves, then I say go for it.... but it doesn't work that way, even with decades of education. Children, especially, are at the mercy of secondhand smoke. And yeah, it is as dramatic as that.

And, marijuana isn't addictive. Try another strawman.

[bbinacan]

131. Nicotine

It is my understanding that nicotine by itself is not harmful. It's all the other stuff in cigs. Marijuana not addictive? LMAO. You should meet some people I know and have known.

[JuniperLea]

130. Should alcohol be banned too?

Anything in excess is dangerous. Why not limit the amount of food that fat people can eat?

[JuniperLea]

133. We should sterilize all imperfect people too...

You know their lives are hellish... and the pain... my god. Not to mention all the perfect people who can't stand to look at them.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[novalib]

51. CHOMP!

Happy now??!!

Tell me, would you support lifting the government's ban on the sale of mercury so that you could enjoy it in your house??

[Generator]

84. You are funny but truly

YES, I have no problem with the government letting you die. In fact I think gallons of mercury or heroin or whatever is YOUR pleasure should be your right. I think drug prohibition of any kind is absurd. I think anybody that thinks they have a right to yes-you read this correctly-FORCE ME TO LIVE is full of crap. No. Suicide should be legal. It's being forced to live THEIR way-whatever it is that's the problem. Whether it's being forced to have nine babies, or forced to be married at age 18, or forced to go to war, or forced to be Muslim or forced to be skinny or forced to be whatever the stupid fucking society you live deems moral.My life is mine. Get it. My body. My death. Mine.My death is not your decision. It's mine. The line where it hurts others-yes-second hand smoke-of course-that's your death, but stay the hell out of my death. And naturally that means, my life. Because it's mine, not yours. Get it mine. Mine to die.

[Generator]

55. Please just don't watch Hardball, okay?

LOL-I mean someone has to draw the line.

[misternormal]

75. You go, Redstone.... n/t

[TahitiNut]

102. While I agree with what you say, I can't agree you have a right to say it

:evilgrin: ... here. (DU rulez!)

[Mythsaje]

45. Yes, and we all know how well prohibition works...

Let's add yet ANOTHER substance to the list of things WE CAN'T EVEN KEEP OUT OF OUR PRISONS!

Maybe we can ban it and arrest another several million otherwise innocent people.

Great reasoning.

[novalib]

54. I'm No Libertarian

Unlike libertarians (Cato Institute, etc), I happen to think that government has a legitimate role in keeping off the market dangerous substances that serve NO useful purpose.

For instance, I think the government is perfectly justified in not allowing people to have mercury in their own homes.

And I think the goverment is perfectly justified in telling people that they may not use lead-based paint in their own homes, no matter how many people may enjoy the color that lead gives to paint.

And I think the government is perfectly justified in telling people that asbestos cannot be used to insulate their homes.

You may want to call all of that "prohibition".

I call it an enlightend government that protects people from dangerous substances.

I think the government is more than justified in banning dangerous, addictive substances.

Like tobacco.

But, then, I'm no Libertarian.

[Mythsaje]

58. If the government is capable of forcing INDUSTRY

not to manufacture certain substances, or release them to the general public, it's one thing. That seems to be possible.

But you're talking about a FUCKING PLANT. Like Cannabis. It's a little harder to grow, sure. But if you ban it, and people can then start making a profit off of it on the black market, people WILL figure out how to grow it illegally.

I can't believe I actually have to explain this.

[novalib]

61. You Mean Like The Poppy?

You mean like the poppy?

So since tobacco is a plant, we should just throw up our hands and say, "Goodness, there is nothing we can do".

But there are some poppies that can produce morphine. And coca plants produce cocaine.

Wheeeeee!!!!!

Let's all have crack, morphine, and heroin.

I think the government's ban on some plants works pretty well.

The fact that some people will choose to illegally grow tobacco does not mean that it should not be banned.

[Mythsaje]

62. Yeah, and god only knows that 70 plus years of fighting

THESE drugs has worked so well up until now. There are millions of people in prison and yet, somehow, these drugs are just as available as they ever were. Funny how that works.

And god only knows the whole alcohol experiment went as planned. Glad we did that one.

You're going to break my sarcasm lever, you know.

[Mythsaje]

63. No, wait...

These drugs are MORE available to the average teenager than they ever were.

Nice to know prohibition is worth something...

[novalib]

68. And You Think

that it's a good thing that middle-school kids can get crack, heroin, and morphine.

I suppose you think it would be a good thing if middle and elementary schools had cigarette vending machines???

[Mythsaje]

76. STRAW MAN!!!

Kids can already get crack and heroin. Morphine's a bit harder, since it's REGULATED.

And, amazingly enough, kids often find it harder to get cigarettes and alcohol than street drugs. Because they're regulated. Dealers don't ask to see ID, believe it or not.

[novalib]

66. YOU are the one who is actually defending

Sorry if I break your little sarcasm lever.

But you seem to be the one here who is actually suggesting that it would be a good thing to legalize the sale of dangerous and addictive substances.

You seem to be the one who is suggesting that we should legalize crack.

You seem to be the one who is suggesting that the sale of heroin in 7-11's and in grocery stores would be a good thing.

You seem to be the one suggesting that it ought to be possible to walk into a convenience store and pick up a vial or two of morphine.

You seem to suggest that the government ought to throw up its hands and just let anyone buy anything -- even dnagerous, addictive substances like crack, morphine, and heroin.

You seem to suggest that our society would be a better place to live if government just got out of the way and stopped protecting us from dangerous and addictive substances.

And then you say that you are somehow more "progressive", and that those of us who see a proper and legitimate role for government to play in protecting us from dangerous and addictive substances are "right wing hypocrits"!!!!!

You do know the difference between libertarianism and progressive thought, don't you?

[Mythsaje]

74. Does the term "straw man" have any special significance for you?

I'm arguing how impossible all this already is... For fuck's sake...drugs are rampant in our prisons...which are supposed to be some of the most secure places we have. You think that by some miracle we can keep them off the street?

I'm saying prohibition doesn't work. Duh. I'm saying that no matter WHAT your intentions are, doing something that doesn't work is just stupid. It wastes time, money, lives, and energy. Bet to regulate and attempt some sort of control of them rather than trying to fight an unwinnable "war" which turns out just to be another way to persecute minorities and destroy our civil rights.

I don't trust authority to make decisions for me. Not them, not you, not the Freepers. Sometimes I'm hard pressed to tell the difference, to tell you the truth.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

77. Geez, now who's guilty of the straw man?

Not to mention absurd slippery slope, reducto ad infinitum, etc...

If we don't invade Vietnam, soon we'll have Soviet tanks rolling down Main Street USA is how I believe that argument went.

The War on Drugs is a FAILURE. The war on smoking is somewhat more successful, I think, because there hasn't been outright prohibition.

Do you really want to send people to JAIL for smoking?

[Puglover]

110. I think the thought you are advocating here

is (as someone in another thread coined) "neo-puritanical" thought.

[misternormal]

80. Poppies produce Opium...

Papaver Somniferum to be exact...

Morphine and Heroine are derivatives of Opium.

[alarimer]

81. And buying cigarettes actively supports companies that

doctored the evidence on how bad they actually are, plus hid the fact that they (the companies) made them even more addictive. Add this to the fact that those same companies were involved in advertising campaigns deliberately aimed at getting kids hooked on cigarettes. These companies are evil and by continuing their habits, smokers are contributing to the evil that these companies do.

[Mythsaje]

83. Uh...addicted! n/t

[Rosemary2205]

94. TOBACCO is NOT dangerous

only about 40% of tobacco products are tobacco. Pure tobacco has been used for a variety of reasons for eons. If the smoke has the opportunity to cool some before it hits your lungs there is no known damage and if the pure tobacco leaf is ground up as snuff or allowed to marinate in the mouth (chew) then there's no known damage either.

The cancer and health risks come from all the additives and from the tempurature of the smoke. -- BTW, modern tobacco products are to tobacco what Spam is to a pig. There's really only the barest of connections.

[Hekate]

106. Just ban the advertising. Banning the substance won't work.

I really have nothing good to say about tobacco manufacturers and their products. The Joe Camel ad campaign hooked both my kids in their very early teens -- they were the precise target audience and it worked. My son (now 28) has always seemed to be able to quit when he wants to, but my daughter (now 30) is addicted, period. She will spend her life going through the hell my mother went through -- trying and failing and trying and failing...

If there is a Hell, I hope there's a very special place in it for the corporate execs and their lackeys who market this poison and who lied for so many years about its safety.

But having said that, I would like to point out that tobacco, like alcohol, is a legal substance. Prohibition of alcohol failed utterly -- the main result of Prohibition was it spawned entire criminal empires, and when Prohibition was repealed that particular branch of crime ended.

The "war" on marijuana is another failure that has done nothing but spawn criminals -- it is a popular and relatively mild drug, but the only way you can get it is by consorting with criminals. Legalize pot, sell it in liquor stores next to the booze, license the sellers and tax the buyers -- one entire branch of crime will cease, and jail cells will empty of people whose only "crime" was possession of pot.

So, much as I hate corporate Big Tobacco, I see no point in banning it and creating a whole new class of criminals -- like my daughter.

I have a theory, though, that if tobacco advertising were banned, the number of users would go down year by year. And I would rejoice.

Hekate

[Mythsaje]

146. I don't consider advertising to be the same as free speech

and completely agree with banning tobacco advertising. Period.

[MelliMel]

107. Yeah, but my state would lose tons of tax dollars if you do that.

Right now people are pretty happy letting smokers give the state a ton of dough in the form of taxes. And the state has gotten used to it. Dry up the cash cow and they'll go looking for a new tax.

[lse7581011]

113. Don't Forget Alcohol

Let's ban that too! :sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

119. Alcohol isn't inherently a poison nor addictive (for most people)

[JuniperLea]

137. The hell it isn't!

And if a child should get ahold of a bottle they could easily be poisoned.

Alcohol kills you a sip at a time. It smells bad. And people don't know enough not to drive when they drink.

Come on.

[madmunchie]

127. How many people are forced to breathe in alcohol "fumes"

when they want to go out to dinner, or out for a walk even?

[JuniperLea]

139. Avoid drinkers and avoid smokers... easy

But you can't avoid the drunk driver... there's no smoke to warn you they are coming...

[madmunchie]

145. There needs to be stiffer penalties for drunk drivers.

[kiahzero]

72. Just like forced compliance with OSHA standards. (n/t)

[Mythsaje]

Easier to manage industrial rather than individual behavior,

don't you think?

[JuniperLea]

129. let smokers continue?

Gosh, I guess you have no problem with the government making people stop smoking then... and you won't care if they make you stop something you enjoy because someone else thinks it stinks...

[Drum]

22. bingo! nt

[Beaverhausen]

28. care to comment on the rest of that post?

and I know tons of people who have overcome that addiction.

[Mythsaje]

52. Again...So?

I can think of tons of people who've lifted themselves out of poverty without help from the government too.

Maybe everyone should be able to do it just like the Repugs think they can.

[Telly Savalas]

46. I'm totally sympathetic to the addiction.

One of the components of our universal health-care system should be an agenda for preventitive health, including help for those who want to quit smoking. Different approaches work for different people, so the system would cover them all.

[LostinVA]

120. Agreed -- I quit cold turkey and it worked for me

The patch and tapering did NOT work.

[RagAss]

93. I guess every death is a smoking related death, right?

Since everyone on the face of the earth has been exposed to second hand somke ....it must be the cause of every death....how would anyone keep a stat on that?...unless they were just making shit up....!!!!

[Robb]

124. It's quite easy

I see death certificates in my daily work.

There's a little box that says "Did tobacco use contribute?" and the county coroner, who isn't required to be a doctor, BTW, can write "probably" in there. :crazy:

On edit: Most people don't believe this. Here's one I was able to pull up in about 90 seconds:

[RagAss]

126. un-friggin believable !!!!

[jobycom]

9. Not YOUR health. The health of those who don't want to smoke,

Not to mention the freedom of those who don't want to smoke. One smoker takes away the right of everyone in the vicinity to not smoke. Those who deny the dangers of second-hand smoke are like those who deny global warming, and those who claim that other smells--car exhaust, body order, perfumes, dead skunks--are as painful to breath as cigarette smoke are in a denial deeper than any Republican over Bush and wmds. SMokers can't tell how it smells, their senses are too deadened. Either that, or they can just deny anything.

[Mythsaje]

15. I quit for two years...

I know exactly how it smells...

My wife quit for six months.

I lived with it intimately for a year and a half before finally saying 'fuck it.'

I could smell someone who'd just had a cigarette from twenty feet away. I'd rather smell like that then sleep next to it.

[Cleita]

11. It's surprising the right is getting on the bandwagon.

Did their buddies in big tobacco piss off someone important?

[cigsandcoffee]

14. People like to control behaviour they see as destructive

[Mythsaje]

25. People like to control behavior...period...n/t

[dogday]

16. I live in Houston

Some days the air is so thick, you can't see down the road...

[JuniperLea]

132. Do you ever see people jogging in that air?

It never ceases to amaze me here in Los Angeles... people are so addicted to running that they will do it in extremely polluted conditions... huff and puff... get all that in now, ya hear?

[Beaverhausen]

19. oh yes

:popcorn:

the tuesday smoking thread is here.

[dogday]

23. Smoke em if you got em

:popcorn: Sorry could not help it.... :shrug:

[bbinacan]

31. Having a smoke and

drinking a cold beer. I guess I'm evil to many of the smoke nazis on this thread. I guess alcohol is next. Maybe popcorn with salt and butter after that.:smoke: :evilgrin:

[dogday]

32. BO is next

It will be against the law to stink or some such stuff....

On edit: Maybe mandatory AIDs test for everybody....

[Rex]

33. What about halitosis?

Will they ban people with halitosis from going out in public? Then what? Warts? Exposed toe w/toejam? Booger in the nose = jail time!

[bbinacan]

43. Booger in the nose should

require the ultimate punishment. The death penalty.:evilgrin:

[Quantess]

147. Call me odd, but I'd rather sit next to a ripe armpit than a smoker

At least I can breathe without choking. And their scent won't stick to me, like secondhand smoke does.
I'll share an elevator with a sweaty person who forgot their deodorant, any day, over someone wearing strong perfume. Edited to add: I'm thankful people can't smoke in most elevators.

I can't wait until smoking is banned in all indoor public places.

[Redstone]

39. You betcha. That's next.

Redstone

[JuniperLea]

138. Oh, man!

Show off... :)

[Redstone]

41. "Them as can't smoke, go through the motions."

Redstone

[ismnotwasm]

53. Mine is trans-fat free

I know 'cause I read the label.
:popcorn:

[Rex]

20. No war, profit! Profit, profit, profit.

No war on terror, drugs, cigarettes, poverty, etc. All just catchy words for another word - profit! Someone's making big bucks of those commercials (all of which look retarded).

Profit
Profit
Profit.

[TheCowsCameHome]

34. I've never heard anyone say how wonderful smoking cigarettes was.

Why would anyone smoke them? Smoking them has no worthwhile qualities at all.

[cigsandcoffee]

38. Smoking a cigarette is wonderful, IMO

Smooth and very satisfying.

[Redstone]

36. Because it's easy.

Redstone

[seabeyond]

56. mob mentality. a nation beating up on smoker. everyone can get on board

and beat up on the smoker. they wont be protected, they wont be defended, we don't have to see them as humans, albiet imperfect humans. just a free for all on our angers and pains and hate, right at the smoker

we find the same with the fat. but not quite as much. close

it is the worst of who we are as a people. a feeling of righteous, better

the right does it with the gay

[Mythsaje]

60. You see pretty clearly Seabeyond...

Even some of the same arguments are used...Public health menace, etc...

Almost right-wing in their hypocrisy, I'd say.

[seabeyond]

65. you knwo what i ask my fellow christians in this very red area

that has religion telling htem the democrat is not christian, ect.... and these adults, church going adults that feel an anger to the liberal, i ask them, eye to eye...... i am a democrat.... can you love me anyway.

it makes them stop and think. never once have i had one say no to me. they all embrace

but it is the same with the hate of the smoker. i am a smoker can you love me anyway? i don't see it with so many anti smokers. not at all. that tells me this is beyond just the dislike of the smell of smoke.

i have watched all my non smoker friends lecture me on the evil of smoking. like so many on this board. in starting any relationship with the non smoking friend, i excuse and go smoke when i need. now those so very strong anti smoking people that sound just like so many on this board follow me when i go to have a smoke. the smoke bothered them sooooooo much prior to getting to know me. yet..... once friendship blossomed and they saw me as a human, a person of interest, the smoking just has no interest or concerns for them.

how seriously am i going to take these argument.

i see them for what they are.

people arent blowing smoke it faces, these people are experience smoke in hteir lives yet they are filled with an anger and hate.... at a smoker they don't even have to experience

[seabeyond]

69. i tell something that tickles me so. the anti smoker saying i wont

be around a smoker. you smoke and you cant be around me. i always hear that on these threads. like i want to be around that person. like it is a loss for me. lordy..... no loss, i dont WANT to be around that person anymore than they want to be around me.

[Mythsaje]

86. Yeah...Like I WANT to be around a petty, self-righteous tyrant...

Not this century.

[JuniperLea]

141. Perfect! We can smoke as a repelent to small minded people!

There. The perfect excuse to smoke. I don't need small minds in my life anyway:)

[Quantess]

148. Why?

They hurt your feelings because they don't appreciate your secondhand smoke? :eyes:

Can you even try to guess why some people get annoyed by secondhand smoke? It's nothing personal. It's not you they don't like, it's your cigarette.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

82. In some of the posts on this thread

You could substitute the word gay for smoker and you'd really see how scary some of the extreme views espoused are. Many wingnuts view homosexuality as addictive and harmful to others, don't forget.

[Mythsaje]

85. Indeed...

Not that you can make the comparison without someone getting huffy.

"But that's not the same at all!"

All in the way you see things, ain't it?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

91. But we're not comparing the people, just the rhetoric.

Certainly, the experience of smokers is not the same of that of gays or any other group. But the demonization and intolerance demonstrated towards them can be remarkably similar.

[Mythsaje]

95. Oh...most definitely the impression I get as well...n/t

[Quantess]

150. Ahem. Smoking is a choice.___EOM

[Lindacooks]

104. Oh please.

The amount of denial on the part of smokers on this thread is unbelievable.

Why can't you people understand this: your 'right' to smoke ends at MY NOSE. None of those other behaviors you are talking about are direct causes of 3,000 cases of lung cancer and 35,000 cases of heart disease EVERY YEAR. Just by breathing secondhand smoke.

Grow up.

[deaniac21]

135. Denial is a big part of addiction.

[SOS]

149. That's "premature" deaths.

If a 250-pound, diabetic, 71 year-old man, whose wife smokes, dies of a heart attack while shoveling snow, he is counted as a premature death caused by second-hand smoke.

Post #124 shows how "smoking-related" deaths are tallied. It's absurd.

[kiahzero]

73. Those bastard gays, giving people cancer.

Really, did you think that equivalence through?

[Mythsaje]

79. No, the fundies think they give people AIDS...

And all sorts of other diseases.

So they're wrong.

They're still fighting the battle THEY think is right.

[seabeyond]

97. no those bastard gays are contaminating the world with sin

making our kids gay, destroying marriages. they use the bible for the rhetoric. the same as you use the studies for your rhetoric with smokers.

if smokers are killing off all the rest of the population, why have the kids of smoking parents not dropped like flies for decades.

you use extreme argument for extreme hatred. the same as the right

[JuniperLea]

136. the right does it with the gay

Indeed. No sex without being married either... gosh, let's make a list.

This thread is reeking... and it's not of smoke either.

[MervinFerd]

64. Cultural elitism.

Smoking is bad for smokers, but treating them like lepers isn't useful or fair or good politics.

Why'd the current Surgeon General oppose smoking?

Beats me.

[ecstatic]

88. One time I was standing outside and a group of 4 smokers came

and stood right by me and lit up. They could have gone anywhere, but chose to stand right near me. I almost got nasty with them but I just walked away. It's inconsiderate acts like that that are just causing nonsmokers to become fed up.

[Mythsaje]

89. That IS inconsiderate...I wouldn't do anything like that...

But maybe they were just feeling the power of the majority... They forced YOU to go somewhere else just like what had been done to them.

Petty and juvenile, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[seabeyond]

99. i have never seen anyone behave like this. you wouldnt, i wouldnt

no smoker i know would do this. i wonder on these threads why the most outrageous behavior happens to only the select few. i just walk thru life without people doing these assinine and really unusual things as people on the boards tell me the most odd stories.

why... would four people go stand right next to a non smoker to smoke?

[Mythsaje]

100. The theory I posted is the ONLY one I could think of...

I have never seen this sort of behavior either. Most of the smokers I know try to be considerate of non-smokers. Even my wife, who's more libertarian than liberal. She doesn't tend to give a damn what anyone else thinks.

[Violet_Crumble]

125. I'm a smoker and I've seen it happen...

Some smokers are inconsiderate like that...

[JuniperLea]

143. Maybe they are drunk on that devil alcohol and don't know better

Let's ban alcohol instead... at least smokers know what they are doing...

[seabeyond]

98. were you standing next to the ashtray????

:shrug:

[adwon]

108. Thank you

That slayed me. :P

[seabeyond]

123. i slay myself just all the time

hubby says it is a good thing i can make myself laugh so much. the thing, others just don't see the funny. but i sure do enjoy it;)

[NC_Nurse]

111. Smoke all you want in you own home

Not anywhere near me.

Smoking causes problems for those around you too. At the very least, it stinks. For some, it intiates allergic reactions or asthma attacks. It's very bad for children with asthma or respiratory problems.

Smokers should be allowed to smoke in their own homes. If they want to poison themselves and their own families, fine.

[NC_Nurse]

112. Oops!

I meant to reply to the main post. :dunce:

[LostinVA]

121. I don';t agree with their own families

Not for minors who HAVE to be around the smokers.

Just imo. My sister and I both have problems that stem from that.

[blues90]

92. I smoke but I don't ignore others

To me there is no difference in smoking to foul up the air people need to breath or driving a car everyday . People accept the car , they need to car but smoking has not contributed to global warming to the extent that most all other industries . To make on car and drive it for a year considering all the maintainence and chemicals used and emmited would allow for a hell of a lot of smokers . A forest fire probably does more harm than years of cigarette smoke .

People do all sorts of things that rub others the wrong way . Some walk into work smelling like they tried on every scent on hand to the point where your eyes burn or your lunch takes on an entire new flavor . Others get their car equipped with some exceptionally loud irritating and startling alarm system that is triggered by bird droppings and not one activation was a theft attempt and honestly who rushes out to ward off a car thief , no one .

People like to bitch about everything and it's always some else's fault .

Some people chew with their mouths open and ruin your meal or they use every public space for their personal cell phone booth . They have the most annoying ring set on their cell phone and it's up as loud as possible or they lay it on a desk on vibrate and walk away .

How about the people who eat at your desk and slime your computer with McD's . Or they use your desk phone and just applied hand lotion and tranfered ear wax .

Think about all the times you handle change and all the places it must have been and if you eat at a fast food drive through offering and did not wash your hands , think about it .


Many of these things bother me ,just like the work place radio tuned into rap if rap is not your thing . But i have given up bitching , what's the point ? For everything there is around us you cannot avoid most of it and just about everyone joins in on the madness .

[Jeanette in FL]

109. To divide and conquer and keep us distracted

Just reading this thread you can see how well TPTB plan is working. When they can get us (We the People) arguing about smoking, flag burning, gay rights or abortion, they can keep us distracted about the real problems that they are creating. Works all the time.

[RebelOne]

114. I smoke, so I am not going to get involved in this flame war. n/t

[LynneSin]

115. I know how you feel and I don't smoke

:pals:

I'm hiding the thread - how about you

[MadJohnShaft]

116. I'm trying to quit now and Big Tabacco is winning

[devilgrrl]

134. Because a war against Industrial Pollution is too much for most...

go after the small stuff... it feels like progress.

[Spider Jerusalem]

140. Self-righteous twits are out in force, I see...

lots of whining about 'my air space'...'I have to breathe this smoke'...etc...hey, morons. How harmful do you think automobile exhaust is? Worse than secondhand smoke, I'll tell you that. And if you're a NON-smoker, you aren't going to be exposed to other peoples' cigarette smoke in almost any public place where you don't want to be, anyway. You can no longer smoke in restaurants, bars, office buildings, airports, et cetera in most US states I've been to recently. However, especially if you live in or near a large metropolitan area, breathing in the exhaust fumes of automobiles is inevitable. So quit fucking whining. Christ. One of the reasons I don't quit smoking is because I'm afraid I'll turn into one of you obnoxious fuckers.

(Note that the above is directed at the snide, self-righteous, irritating nonsmokers who feel the need to carp about how terribly offended they are when someone has the temerity to smoke a cigarette in a designated smoking area or outdoors in their vicinity, and not at the OP.)

[Raine]

142. It's not just "your" health

but also the health of those who have chosen not to take up the cancer stick habit.

[KT2000]

144. lets other industries off the hook

lots of money is flowing into the anti-smoking coffers for research and PR.
Other industries are piling on because it keeps the attention off of them.
bush admin has annihilated research concerning health and exposure to chemicals and the project to study children's health and environmental causes of illness and injury.
Smoking and smokers are OK enemies with the current admin. Hands off the oil/chemical industry though. The head of CDC would be spending lots more time with the family if they were singled out.

The mood is ripe in this country to wage war with other citizens - keep the attention away from the big issues like flag burning.

Did you know that an herbicide touted as being safe and used everywhere was finally tested correctly and found to be dangerous. They finally tested ALL the ingredients in the herbicide - not just one component of it.

Two common food dyes, when tested separately were found to be safe. Someone had the bright idea to test them together since people eat these dyes in combination. it was found that the two dyes mixed together form a neurotoxin.

But shhhhh - lets wage war on our smoking neighbors instead!