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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:32 PM
Original message
Kerry's consistent/forceful message on Bush's invasion/occupation of Iraq
Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 01:44 PM by ProSense
Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi



And the truth is that George Bush has made America weaker by overextending the armed forces of the United States, overstraining, overstraining our reserves, driving away our allies and running the most arrogant, reckless, inept and ideological foreign policy in the modern history of our country.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/03/se.13.html



If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and to train the Iraqis to provide their own security and to develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold elections next year, if all of that happened, we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring our troops home within the next four years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35515-2004Sep20?language=printer



KERRY: This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment. And judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America.

He also promised America that he would go to war as a last resort.

Those words mean something to me, as somebody who has been in combat. Last resort. You've got to be able to look in the eyes of families and say to those parents, I tried to do everything in my power to prevent the loss of your son and daughter.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040930/NEWS09/40930003



I will make a flat statement: The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq.

KERRY: And our goal in my administration would be to get all of the troops out of there with a minimal amount you need for training and logistics as we do in some other countries in the world after a war to be able to sustain the peace.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/30/politics/main646640.shtml



And Iraq is not even the center of the focus of the war on terror. The center is Afghanistan, where, incidentally, there were more Americans killed last year than the year before; where the opium production is 75 percent of the world's opium production; where 40 to 60 percent of the economy of Afghanistan is based on opium; where the elections have been postponed three times.

KERRY: The president moved the troops, so he's got 10 times the number of troops in Iraq than he has in Afghanistan, where Osama bin Laden is. Does that mean that Saddam Hussein was 10 times more important than Osama bin Laden -- than, excuse me, Saddam Hussein more important than Osama bin Laden? I don't think so.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040930/NEWS09/40930003



“Getting it right also means drawing up a detailed plan with the clear milestone of transfer of military and police responsibilities to Iraqis after the December elections. The Administration’s plan should take into account both political and security objectives, including Iraqi force structure, and be specifically tied to a defined series of tasks and accomplishments. This plan must be more than dates and numbers - it must make clear to the Iraqi government that American patience is limited.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=239696&



The president must also announce immediately that the United States will not have a permanent military presence in Iraq. Erasing suspicions that the occupation is indefinite is critical to eroding support for the insurgency.

He should also say that the United States will insist that the Iraqis establish a truly inclusive political process and meet the deadlines for finishing the Constitution and holding elections in December. We're doing our part: our huge military presence stands between the Iraqi people and chaos, and our special forces protect Iraqi leaders. The Iraqis must now do theirs.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/headlines/pdf/kerry_6_28_05_New_York_times.pdf


No RW talking points! A person responds to questions, and it's easy to take statements out of context, but what a person believes and does is more important. People like McCain, Hagel, Bush and the rest of the Repubs prove that.

Senator Kerry has been one of the most forceful critics of the invasion. He is one of less than a handful of elected officials who have never let up, and he has been at it longer than most! Senator Kerry's deadline is the primary reason withdrawal is being discussed with seriousness today!

There are a few great leaders in the Democratic Party. Scrutinize the actions of others and compare, Senator Kerry is the real deal, period!

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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes he is the real deal.
A true patriot. I am very grateful, for all our sakes, that he doesn't take the sh** they dish out to heart and that he just keeps coming back for the good fight time and time again. Not many politicians could do that... Repugs are just brutal towards him.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Agreed, a thousand times.
A true patriot. I am very grateful, for all our sakes, that he doesn't take the sh** they dish out to heart and that he just keeps coming back for the good fight time and time again. Not many politicians could do that...

This is why John Kerry is the politician I support the most. I like most of his positions too, which helps, but it's his sheer strength of character and incredible resilience of spirit that means the most to me. No matter what happens in the future, I will always be grateful to him for helping me believe in something again.


Repugs are just brutal towards him.

Unfortunately, not just repugs. There are a few who claim to be on our side...or at least admit to being naderites or other flavors of lefter-than-thou...and they can't seem to get enough of emulating repugs when it comes to trying to undermine one of the best Democrats we have.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. John Kerry is my president.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Mine too
Edited on Fri Jun-23-06 08:40 PM by alyce douglas
my kids get excited when they see him on TV when I am watching C span, my son says hey John Kerry, and I just sigh........
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow!!! I'm speechless! Great research and well documented
and convincing argument as well!
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for these links! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. You're welcome!
Look forward to your next post!

:hi:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sorry you feel you have to keep doing this - - trolls WON'T listen to
facts no matter how many times you post them, and others working to take Kerry down from within don't care what's true or not, only if it can be SPUN under the guise of "concern" for the party.

They should have had concern for the party when the books were closed on BushInc in 1993.

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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. And how can the trolls even listen if this isn't making MSM???? nt
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. He's my President too!
Thank you for having the true president's back!
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kicked and Recommended for Big John!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thanks all! n/t
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. I betcha George W. Bush is thanking his Personal Savior that he
does not anymore have to go face-to-face with John Kerry in a debate.

Especially after Kerry squashed him like a bug in the three they held.

Those debates constituted a landslide performance by an insightful man over an intellectual runt.

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. HEY NOW GIVE THE PRESIDENT CREDIT...
He's improving... That new press guy might be able to train the chimp to stop saying, "uh" or "um" by the time he gets out of office. To date, those are his two his most commonly words, in speeches.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. True. Six years of "uh" and "um" isn't a fair contest. Ok. I'll extend
it to the full 8 years.

: )
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Also after seeing Kerry and Senator Warner in a real
debate without the phony constraints, the truth is that Kerry simplified his answers in the debates. The debate with Warner was unplanned and unscripted and Kerry expanded his points beautifully. It also showed a lot more of his personality. I am so glad that he and Warner used that half hour so well.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. We've got us a good, deep bench of blue Democrats.
I'm liking our chances in 06 and 08 both.

Hiya there.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. hiya back
I agree that there are many good Democrats
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick EOM
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. "I hate Iraq"
Baiscally what he said by voting for IWR, calling ending the occupation "cut-and-run" and berating the antiwar movement, calling the invasion a "liberation"
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Bullshit. You just hate Kerry.
Which, following logic as specious as your own, means you hate liberal Democrats. And you wanted Bush to win in 2004.

Well, it follows in the same way your conclusion does. Except, since I know nothing about you but your posts here, it may be true in your case.

:shrug:
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-23-06 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Haha
I dislike prowar Kerry so I liked Bush?


What is this?

"If you're not with (one of our candidates) you are against (all of) us?"

Or is it the Soviet Union? Either with the Party or a counterrevolutionary?

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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. Interesting choice of words.
Kerry is about as far from pro-war as you can get, but nice use of RW rhetoric.

Lemme ask you something. You think voting for the IWR (which, if you'd read the actual piece of legislation, you'd see was NOT a vote to go to war) = PRO WAR?

Does voting on an amendment that supports a woman's right to choose make you "PRO ABORTION?"

Because that's what the Pukes say about us, and by labeling anyone who voted for IWR "pro-war", you are using the same slimy, misleading tactics they do.

Are you inaccurately labeling everyone who voted for IWR (the majority of Congress) pro war? Or just singling out Kerry for attack? Just wondering.
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. I agree. It is pathetic how transparent people can be without realizing.
At least we're honest: we support Kerry and think he's a terrific leader. He's always in the front line fighting for us.

Can you imagine any Kerry supporters pulling this kind of bullshit in a pro-Clark thread, for example?
It doesn't happen, does it?

And it won't either because our leader sets a more honorable example than that.
We honor our leader by following his example.

Those who come here to support another leader by bashing Kerry do great disservice to that leader, unless of course, that leader happens to be Karl Rove.

People who jump into pro-Kerry threads to defecate either:

1. Side with or work for the Republicans and are here to spread disunity
2. Represent another Democrat and are jealous (and or threatened by) of any attention paid to Kerry
3. Are in a special category of those who tear down instead of building up: the unproductive moaners.

Why do I say this? Because jumping into someone's pro-anyone thread on a Democratic site with the express intention of bashing is counterproductive unless they have something to gain.

There are plenty of other topics to pick from to post in. When people jump into a unity thread to attack, they have a reason, and it isn't unity. That they are getting something from the attack, is obvious, and it is easy to connect the dots to see that they either see Kerry as a threat or a rival. The only other explanation is that they are disruptive by nature and this is how they get their attention.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. No Repub quotes needed on this thread.
We already know how THEY see it, but they're wrong.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. That's about as clear as it gets. You Go for It John!!! K&R n/t
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. I think Gore is a stronger leader in the Democratic Party on Iraq.
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 03:00 AM by Clarkie1
I just saw the David Letterman show, and I think his statements regarding Iraq were much more presidential, thoughtful, and non-partisan than Kerry's. Here's why.

I read your whole post, and was fine with Kerry's statements up until recently, where he starts saying how it's important "we let the Iraqi government know our patience is limited" (by setting arbitrary deadlines). I think that's wrong because the Iraqi government does not want us there any longer than necessary, either. They don't want to seem tied to America politically any more than necessary, because it will weaken their image among Iraqis. Also, it tells the insurgents what our plan is, so they will inevitably ramp up the violence before the pre-announced "deadline." So, the problem is not as Kerry says to threaten the Iraqi government with a pre-announced deadline in order to get them to move more quickly; it's to work with the Iraqi government in an adult-adult kind of relationship, not a parent-child kind of relationship. We need to use the leverage we have in more thoughtful ways, and not put ourselves into a box into which a real solution may not fit as future events transpire in unknown ways.

Hope you got a chance to see the David Letterman Show.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. The Iraqis don't need to be coddled and Kerry respects their sovereignty
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Fantasy Island trivia: Who said
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent post! If only more Dems would follow suit,
and get on board with the efforts to withdraw the troops. I was absolutely dumbfounded that THIRTY FUCKING THREE Dems voted with the Pukes (for what reason, God only knows) and killed the amendment to bring our soldiers home, and end the occupation.

Kerry's the Real Deal alright, and we need more like him.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
31. Breaking on MSNBC: Iraqis offer plan for withdrawal
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 10:22 AM by ProSense
Reporter talking about Gen. Casey's plan, saying whatever the details, it would be expected to fall in line with the Iraqis.


Go figure!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Iraq's plan looks a lot like what Kerry has been proposing since October
Kerry's speech "The Path Forward"

It is true that our soldiers increasingly fight side by side with Iraqis willing to put their lives on the line for a better future. But history shows that guns alone do not end an insurgency. The real struggle in Iraq -Sunni versus Shiia - will only be settled by a political solution, and no political solution can be achieved when the antagonists can rely on the indefinite large scale presence of occupying American combat troops.


Snip...

We must move aggressively to reduce popular support for the insurgency fed by the perception of American occupation. An open-ended declaration to stay ‘as long as it takes’ lets Iraqi factions maneuver for their own political advantage by making us stay as long as they want, and it becomes an excuse for billions of American tax dollars to be sent to Iraq and siphoned off into the coffers of cronyism and corruption.


Snip...

Our strategy must achieve a political solution that deprives the Sunni-dominated insurgency of support by giving the Sunnis a stake in the future of their country. The Constitution, opposed by more than two thirds of Sunnis, has postponed and even exacerbated the fundamental crisis of Iraq. The Sunnis want a strong secular national government that fairly distributes oil revenues. Shiites want to control their own region and resources in a loosely united Islamic state. And Kurds simply want to be left alone. Until sufficient compromise is hammered out, a Sunni base can not be created that isolates the hard core Baathists and jihaadists and defuses the insurgency.


http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=247764&



I'm fairly certain the Iraqis have been listening to the American debate. I am absolutely certain Senator Kerry is not only listening to, but also acknowledging and respecting the Iraqi government's feedback!


Withdrawal: It's about saving American lives, trying to achieve peace and respecting Iraq's sovereignty.
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