How much do you blame the Republican voters personally...?

[kentuck]

...for what has happened and what is happening to our country? Do you despise each Republican as much as you despise George W Bush? Or are they simple pawns that have been used by their political Party and no different from how Democrats could be used in a reverse situation? Is each Republican responsible for the mess we are presently in and for the disaster we are about to be in? Once it hits the fan, not if, who will you personally hold responsible?

[blm]

1. They have been pulled in by the corporate media - I blame them the way I'd

blame anyone taken in by RevMoon or the Pet Rock.

[Orrex]

2. I blame them for putting Bush within a margin of cheatable victory

At the time of the election I declared that it was not possible to be intelligent, sane, and informed and still have voted for Bush.

Of course, it's possible that some very few people voted out of personal greed or malice, but these would seem to be a small minority compared to the willfully (and cheerfully) ignorant masses who would love to have a beer with Bush and who voted for him because he keeps us safe.

[Beausoir]

3. I hold each and every one of them accountable. They ALL have bloody hands

Gleefully they shoved this false war down our throats.

War is just a game to them. No Republican I personally know has EVER served NOR sacrificed one fucking thing for this country.

They take and take and kill and kill and still they want more. Blood thirsty animals. They only understand hatred and violence and fear.

[BOSSHOG]

4. They voted, and they are still crowing

They are more to blame for the condition of our country today than bush and his band of criminals because bush wouldn't be in power if those who voted for him had any concept of right and wrong. I consider those who voted for bush domestic enemies of the constitution and yes for me, its personal.

[Bake]

57. Damn right it's personal!

Well put, Boss!!

Bake

[BOSSHOG]

58. Hey Bake

There are quite a few Mississippians on DU. I live in Pearl River County, consider myself a New Orleans local.

[Bake]

71. We're bluer than people think!

Although in my part of Madison County there are still a lot of "W" stickers, I work in Jackson and still see "Kerry/Edwards" stickers too. And cars with "W" stickers partially pulled off!

The first time I saw Haley Barbour in person was on election day; he was blocking the sidewalk to our office building's parking garage, shaking hands. I smiled, shook his hand, and told him I already voted but not for him! Oh, and I was shocked to see how SHORT he was! Hehe! Dude can't be over 5'5".

Bake

[tinfoil tiaras]

172. I live in Jackson

and I must say, it has to be the most liberal part of the state. Still, I'm surprised when we travel elsewhere in the state (especially south Mississippi on the gulf coast-very very conservitive area) that people don't key our car (it has a liberal bumpersticker on it) or do something like that.

[JudyM]

157. Just saw this bumper sticker: "Thank God for the Red States."

What ignorant arrogance.

[Neecy]

5. I don't like to admit it...

Because this is a lot of people to be angry with, but yes - I blame every single person who voted for this disaster, this simpleton, this obvious idiot. They're dragging the rest of us down with them, and they must have known what a zero this man is.

[edhopper]

6. I blame them a great deal.

Any one with any common sense could see that this A-hole and his gang would lead us down long dark path. Republican voters who are also conservationist, fiscal conservatives, socially moderate and just plain believe in honesty and the Constitution closed their eyes and gave Chimpy McSmirk the power to ruin us.
They shoulder the blame. Without their vote, he would be a loser fishing year round in Texas.

[Orion The Hunter]

73. More and more with each passing day...

...especially those Republican voters who haven't let the light of common sense shine into their narrow minds!

[NoPasaran]

7. They are guilty, guilty, guilty!

Anyone who voted for the maniac in 2004 is human garbage.

[Toots]

8. The last five years have cost me several "friends"

I am learning to get over it though. We are afterall all Americans and need to figure this shit out..

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

9. I hold them all personally responsible,

and if that makes me a lesser person in some people's minds, I really don't give a shit.

I posted on DU two days after the November 2004 election, that when anyone started complaining about losing their job, higher gasoline prices, higher food prices, etc I would ask them one simple question: Who did you vote for? If the answer was Chimpy, and it has been from quite a few people, my response to them is this: you got what you voted for. Live with your decision.

[truebrit71]

69. Me too.

I love hearing rethuglicans whining about high gas prices, and the cost of groceries and the crappy job market. I tell them to go Cheney themselves...

You lie down with dogs you get up with fleas....

[BonnieJW]

10. not so much the first time

but the second time, yes. They were either the beneficiaries and wanted him to stay or they were lazy like my inlaws and did not bother learning about what was going on and voted the straight party ticket like always. A patriot has two responsibilities: to be informed and to be heard. They were neither.

[unpossibles]

11. I honestly did not blame them until 2004 election

I had little respect for them, as the information was out there earlier, but I figured people would see how horrible his administration was and at least limit him to one term, the way they did his father, another horrible president.

During the campaign, I was flabbergasted to see so many people (although I think the actual number is far less than the reported 51% - if they only needed to switch a small number of votes, why would they leave it to chance; if they switched any (which I strongly believe they did), they switched a lot. It goes with their greedy character.

Any way.. I have no respect left for any of the Bush voters. I don't respect the ones who voted against their better interest because of fear (terror alerts), misinformation (swiftboating, Iraq=9/11, etc.), bigotry (gay agenda), greed (tax cuts, anti-welfare, etc.), or any other reason. I can't. AT ALL.

Like someone said: fool me once, shame on me, fool me ... fool me twice.. won't get fooled again. Not only were they fooled again, but they let themselves be fooled by third-rate hucksters, murderers, and con-artists.



That said, I would gladly welcome back into the fold anyone who can at least admit they made a mistake in the last 5 years of elections, but have yet to meet one who can fess up. No wonder they like Bush so much....

[tnlefty]

18. Agree with you and I've come across a whopping total of 1 person who

realized her screw up. A friend of my mother's who loudly stated to me, "George Bush has turned me into a Democrat for at least the next 4 election cycles, if I live that long." She was on a tirade that day about a lot of things, but mainly that he's a lying sack of waste and the he is hellbent on destroying the country.

[ChickMagic]

68. That's me too. One person.

I blame the puke voters 100%. Particularly family and friends I tried
to talk to. I even tried to evoke family ties by saying, "Look - see
how hard I'm working on this election? Will you please vote for my
guy?" Nothing. To hell with them all.

Except. My doctor one day who kind of keeps his convictions close to
his vest, but I figured voted puke, spoke up. I had done my usual ranting
to him and he just stopped, looked at me, and told me I had been right
all along and he could never forgive himself for not seeing it. That
hurt me.

[tnlefty]

83. The thing that REALLY gets to me is when my kids ask why their

grandparents, uncles and aunts would vote to royally screw them over (they don't say it like that) but they have a hard time trying to understand and there are times that I'm truly at a loss as to what to say to them.

[lonestarnot]

12. I hate them too!

[Canuckistanian]

13. It's every citizen's duty to educate themselves

There were plenty of warnings. They only had to do some research.

There comes a point where you have to realize that the MSM is not the best source for accurate information, especially when choosing your leader.

[bdamomma]

102. that was our downfall right there

not caring or not being well educated on political matters.

[catmandu57]

14. I'm more angry at the apathetic couch potato

who couldn't turn the damn tv off or get off their ass long enough to go vote.
I don't like republicans, I've never met one that didn't rub me the wrong way, but, at least they voted.
They were wrong, dead wrong and we'll be paying for their stupidity for many years, but they got out and voted.
These people who will take whatever they get because there isn't a difference are the ones who burn me up.

If course their non participatipn may be speaking loudly about our platform and the policies we are advancing.

[tomp]

15. those of us in the 10% of opposition after 9/11...

...wonder about the other 90%. can people be blamed for being brain-washable? it's a difficult question. it's seems that milgram proved that challenging authority is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, taboos. i think we must direct our energies toward diminishing that taboo.

however, in the end, aren't we all responsible for our actions? it's not our job to blame bush voters but to get them to look at themselves and the consequences of their actions.

[Lost4words]

130. you cant convert sociopaths!

[tomp]

160. my father-in-law is not a sociopath

he is one of the most kind, generous, deferential men i have ever met. he is however, misled. he's not politically astute but he thinks he is. he voted reluctantly for bush because he didn't like kerry. who knows why, really? but he's not a sociopath, and i bet there are plenty like him.

[Lost4words]

165. No he probaly isnt and yes there lots and lots of folks like him.

But he sure dosent care much about the other people living in this country. How does he feel about gays, or equal education, health care. Where does he stand on the offshoring of american companies in order to avoid taxes? You dont vote for who you like you vote for the issues you support like anti abortion, prayer in schools, the 10 comandmants in public places.

I dont think he has been mislead, I think you have been. If he supports the current GOP platform, as he did with his vote, he does not support working class America.

I dont want him living next to me.

[tomp]

166. his views and mine...

...are slightly more complex than you are imagining.

i'm not going to fight you.

[Iowa]

168. Yes, the sheeple do seem to be plentiful...

"...challenging authority is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, taboos. I think we must direct our energies toward diminishing that taboo."

The founding of this country was a jab in the eye of authority. Yet so many Americans today practically grovel at the feet of authority, celebrity, and those viewed as saviors. We see gushing authority worship at work, in politics, and we even see it here on DU.

"It's not our job to blame bush voters but to get them to look at themselves and the consequences of their actions."

Nah, I don't buy that. That might be true if they lived in a vacuum, but in this situation the consequences of their actions are destructive and evil. I blame them, I view them as my enemy, and if I had the power to do so, I'd split the country in two so that every one of those assholes would be free to live among themselves in the hate-filled, cesspool of a society they'd create if left unchecked by the rest of us. And once the borders slammed shut, there'd be no turning back. I'm fed up with their hate, weary of their greed, and sick of their continual drag on progress.

[CrispyQ]

16. I blame them completely.

I blame them for capitulating to their small mindedness, their mean spiritedness, their greed, their fear.

[Touchdown]

17. I blame them most.

I'm not anything special. My IQ isn't that extraordinary. I don't have special insight that others don't. I don't consider myself smarter than the average person. It doesn't take my entire day to keep up on current events.

If I can figure this stuff out, as well as seeing that Bush is one big PHONY before the 2000 campaign, then those that didn't, either chose not to, were self centered or were so caught up in the "My team over yours" mentality that they can't be forgiven, or trusted to have a voice in anything. Sure, some are ignorant by the media's lies, but not literally half the country. They chose to be ignorant, and everybody, especially them, knows it.

I wouldn't piss on them to save them from going to Hell.:grr:

[nancyr]

19. Damn right I blame them!

Not only do I blame them....I want nothing to do with them. They're responsible for the downfall of the country and are too stupid to even realize it.

[CountAllVotes]

20. I hold each and every one of these vile awholes responsible!

THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS PIGS! ENJOY! :grr:

[sharp_stick]

21. I blame each and every one of them

And I hope each and every one of them has to live with the consequences of their actions or inactions. You know a nice little outsourcing here, a non-covered medical issue there, perhaps a foreclosure or two.

I hate republicans and I hope that will change someday but until they tell the religious wrong to FO I'm going to continue to hate them.

[Divernan]

22. They are traitors; their greed,stupidity,laziness betrayed the U.S.

Whether they voted for W's second term out of stupidity or greed; or they stayed home and didn't vote for Kerry because of their laziness; either way they gave Bush & his handlers 4 more years. At the end of the first Bush term, this country was badly damaged, but salvagable; given the increase to the national debt and the damage to our civil liberties, our govt. programs & institutions, and the loss of U.S. prestige and influence abroad in the second four years, it is unlikely the U.S. will ever recover from Bush's destructive actions. We will survive, but as a second rate power with a third world standard of living.

[kentuck]

23. In a way, I find some of these responses disturbing...

Why? Because I believe for every action, and every emotion, there is an exact opposite. And if so many people despise Bush, then is it possible that there are as many that absolutely love and worship him? That's a scary thought.

[peacetalksforall]

24. Depends. If they have been life long Republicans who are not

bigots, fundamentalists, self-blindfolded or others who fall into specialized categories of mine - I give them some of them leeway depending on how stubborn they are to face the facts and the news and the raw numbers resulting from this illegal and immoral war. I wildly blame anyone one of them who continues to contribute. They are equal to bigots and fundamentalists in blame.

[cspanlovr]

25. Every * voter should have a red "W" embroidered to all their clothes.

If they voted for him twice, they'll have two "W"'s. Then, when we're all waiting in soup and bread lines, they'll have to give up their spot to non-W wearers at all times.

[CrispyQ]

49. ...

;)

:thumbsup:

[Lost4words]

128. tatooed to their forhead works for me. n/t

[Strawman]

26. Alot.

Like it or not this administration is a reflection of a significant portion of this population. I think the American public has gotten off too easy because it's comforting to believe that it's just a few bad apples that got us into the mess we're in today. They've gained power by appealing to the worst in people and about half of the electorate has consistently endorsed them. It would be nice to believe that the voting public are actually tolerant and progressive and enlightened and not violent, but a winning plurality (or at least one that makes it close enough to cheat) aren't and that's really fucked up and really scary. They need to be led in that direction by mainstream leaders who embrace progressive values. They are being led in the opposite direction by reactionary leaders who have seized the mainstream.

Whether it's ignorance, violent tendencies, religious fanaticism or whatever, every asswipe that pulled the lever for Bush in 2000 and 2004 is at fault in my opinion. It shouldn't have even been close enough for this maniac and his cohorts to steal either election. I think there's a certain element of the population that just can't get enough of the violent power projection of this administration.

[CrispyQ]

50. That is the best & saddest summation,

of our current situation & mindset that I've heard. I know a small group of Republicans (who all know each other) & they are all of the "You mess with the bull you get the horns" mentality.

Depending on where you live, it would be interesting to see what the reaction is if you were to send your commentary to a local paper as a LTTE.

[Strawman]

53. the best gauge is the "speak out" section of the community paper

around here, and I'm fairly certain many of the responses would give me the creeps and the chills.

Maybe that's another aspect of the problem and the responsibility I bear for the current situation. I should send this to my local paper, but honestly I'm kinda afraid of these people and that's how spirals of silence happen. Cuz they're fucking nuts (in a violent and intimidating way) and I ultimately lack the courage and the willingness to pay any kind of price or take the social risk necessary to reach the people in the larger middle who are being led astray by these hard-core bullies. Making change happen requires courage and a willingness to set aside one's social pessimism and have faith that deep down people generally want to do what (I believe) is just. That's something I struggle with. So I blame myself too.

[bobbolink]

61. And, ultimately, that fear stems from not being sure in the support

you would receive if you were to speak out.

I know that where I live, anytime there has been, for example, hate expressed against either a Jewish Synagogue or a Muslim mosque, the rest of the churches speak up in support and even organize vigils in support.

When those of us speak out against the ignorance as individuals, we certainly are not assured of support from our fellow "progressives". In European peace organizations it's much different -- there is strong support for each other, including in their personal lives. Our rugged individualism that we unthinkingly accept in our political lives works to our disadvantage, and will continue to do so until we rethink our stance on this.

It isn't your lack of courage alone.... none of us can stand up to the intimidation alone. It's lack of support.

[Philosoraptor]

27. A great deal, especially those in my own family.

Who don't deserve mention here, other than the fact that I do blame them for being morons.

And in a sense, I blame them all for being stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Depends on which ones

some realzie what is going on

Others grew up in Republcian families and well, you know Rush could not lie

It really depends... I think right now the rank and file are getting pummeled... in some ways I have met people repeating the words of 1929... I voted republican but never again in my life.

[dpbrown]

29. I flip off anyone I see with a Bush bumper sticker

It's their fault for choosing ignorance.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. Completely

There is no excuse. No fear of terrorism, or illegal immigrants, or "dark people" or gay people, or nothing. Fear, ignorance or selfishness are the only logical reasons to have voted for these people, ESPECIALLY the second time.
The Professor

[quickesst]

31. Yeah...

I think we should kill all their leaders, and convert them to democraticacy!! Oh, wait a minute, that sounds familiar. But, the general feeling here is right. They had every opportunity to educate themselves, and chose fear and ignorance to guide them. Even my retired Air Force, Wahington U graduating "I'd crawl through broken glass to vote for President Bush" older brother. Despite his willful ignorance, I still love him though. What can you do?:shrug: Thanks.
quickesst

[Jed Dilligan]

32. I don't know any, so it's not an issue for me

But yes, I blame the educated Republicans. The uneducated ones will come over if we bash Bush hard and loud enough. The educated ones know better but they have venal reasons (usually tax cuts) to support pure evil.

[deaniac21]

33. They should all be put on trial immediately and then

sentenced to death. They have attempted to ruin the world.

[bdamomma]

104. I agree

they have caused alot of people pain and total misery.

[Cha]

34. I blame the media and I blame

ignorance and avarice.

[stop the bleeding]

35. each and everyone of them is COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE

for the 300,000 murders in Iraq
for the 2500 soldiers that have died in Iraq
for the way how are Treasury and it's coffers have been depleted by this war in Iraq
for the eroding of our civil liberties

yep they all got some splainin' to do, and if any of them still has a brain and conscience then I would hate to be them knowing that I(they) indirectly participated/gave the green light/looked the other way involving the deaths of 300,000 people all in the name of their freedom.

sounds like pro-life/christian and morally correct to me???!?!?!?!

[Tyler Durden]

36. Neocon Pig Bush supporters MORE guilty than him.

It is obvious to anyone with enough sense to wipe their ass that the Pig Bush and his minions are the worst catastrophe to befall the country since the Civil War; in fact, he may be responsible for the end of the country as we know it.

So what does it make some "Sportsmen for Bush" idiot, or some fool who thinks he actually cares about abortion or gay marriage other than as a political smokescreen?

God Damn them. They have sown the seeds of destruction, and shall reap the grapes of wrath.

[ima_sinnic]

37. I hold each & every one of them personally responsible

... I don't give them a pass for 2000 because (1) everybody saw what a scumbag Bush 1 was, how Iran-Contra was allowed to happen with nary a peep ahd how he (Bush 1) was a Big Player in that, how Central America was plagued with death squads during his cruel reign, and how the R "contract on America" was going to screw us good, (2) everybody could see his dismal record as governor of Texas, and (3) anybody who couldn't see through him then is dumber than a rock. So the dumb@$$es can reap what they sow. They wanted him and all his devastating anti-American baggage, they got it. I hold each and every one of them responsible for all the deaths and horrors of Iraq, for 9/11 (never would have happened under the conscientious and responsible leadership of a Democratic president), and for the wanton drowning and starving of U.S. citizens during and following Katrina.

[dysfunctional press]

38. entirely. they are all equally evil in my eyes.

they're all spores of the same foul fungus.

[Pathwalker]

39. I totally blame every last one of them. And I let them

know it in no uncertain terms. And yes, I despise THEM as much if not more than Bush.

[kentuck]

40. Does that mean they are "unpartriotic" ??

Since what they have done has done great harm to our country and to our democracy? Even if they have done it out of ignorance, from our point of view? They say, "I'd hate to see where our country would be today if Al Gore had won.."?? What is the punishment for ignorance? Except hardship and suffering?

[obreaslan]

41. After 2000, not so much...After 2004, COMPLETELY!!! n/t

[Lost4words]

131. then you and they were not paying proper attention!

You actually didnt know what was coming? after December 12, 2000?

[insane_cratic_gal]

42. But what if it wasn't their fault?

What if the election was truly stolen as some have speculated?


Just wondering if anyone has considered this before placing blame?

[bdamomma]

105. the elections were stolen

that is how they got their boy in power, they (PNAC) had devised this plan for a long time, all the more reason why we have to hold them responsible for taking this country down the wrong track. Damn them all.

[ileus]

43. This is the greatest thread ever....n/t

[LibDemAlways]

44. Damn right I blame them. What kind of moron

votes for a presidential candidate who can't complete a coherent sentence?

Back in 2000 it was evident Bush was a dumbshit. By 2004 it was evident he was an evil, warmongering dumbshit whose puppetmasters were Cheney and Rove.

I cut repuke voters no slack.

[bdamomma]

106. even when bush got in

his popularity was shit, he was no good from the beginning.

[EC]

45. Any of my friends that voted for **

are no longer friends - I cannot trust their judgment, so therefore they would be a bad influence on me and my family...and many of them were friends with my daughter who is gay...what hippocrites...

[DemReadingDU]

46. all of the above

It's like a cult, they've all been brainwashed

[Beelzebud]

47. I blame them the most. They KNEW what they were voting for.

[ismnotwasm]

48. A lot

I only have one "true" Republican friend. I used to bullshit or argue politics with him, no more. I remember him telling me "Kerry is an idiot" Like bush was any kind of reasonable alternative. He voted for bush, both times.
I just got an email from him making fun of bush. An old joke, about the bird flu and bombing the Canary islands.
Not funny friend. Not any more.
You know for a very bright guy, he's was slower than molasses on this one. Why? He makes very good money as a tax consultant, is intolerant of what he considers the "welfare state" (read: poor people)He believes that tax cuts for cooperations and the are good for the economy because "they pay the bulk of all taxes (along with wealthy folk)and they provide jobs" Interesting view from a guy who is very, very good at getting rich people out of paying taxes.
As well as an extremely simplistic view of economics.

I bitched at him for voting for bush not too long ago and he didn't have a damn thing to say. He knows he fucked up. I'm not in the forgiving mood.

[Thickasabrick]

51. The fault is the media, if people knew the truth Kerry would have

won by a larger margin and it would have been much more difficult to steal the election

[bdamomma]

107. oh the media has alot to do with this also

they completed the plan by feeding us Bush's poison to all of us. Alot of us did catch on to the media's game plan, but again there are many citizens who did not.

[Rainscents]

52. I blame them 100% for 2004 election...

They knew by then, Bush was no good lying shit.

[blindpig]

54. I don't.

They are fellow humans. Of course I'm upset with the way they are voting but they are having their buttons pushed by the most skillful and pervasive propaganda machine in history. To be sure, some are flaming assholes, but then so are some Democrats.

To me there are four kinds of Republican voters:

1)Those who have a true stake in the regime agenda, the rich and hate mongers of the Fred Phelps ilk. A distinct minority of the human race in general.

2)The middle class wanna-be rich. They are fools who identify with the rich and hold themselves above the great unwashed. If the agenda is fulfilled they will find themselves betrayed.

3)"yellow dog" Republicans. They vote the way their family's always voted, that's that. Not much of that going on anymore.

4) The rest, many could be called Reagan democrats.THey are swayed by superficial and emotional issues skillfully presented by the descendants of Goebbels. These are the blue collar folks whom we bemoan for voting against their own interests. But what has the Democratic Party offered them for decades? Nada, zilch, nichts. The Democratic Party connived with the repubs to take their jobs under the bogus pretense of the inevitability of globalization. The Democratic Party has done nothing to continue the fine tradition of the New Deal by seriously pushing Universal Health Care. So I guess fluff and fairy tales beats nothing.

Just my 2 cent.

[Vinca]

55. I blame each and every Republican who based their vote

solely on embryo worship, gay hatred or other so-called "Christian" issues. They are usually so stupid they vote against their own self interests. Want health care? Fuhgeddabowdit. Education? No money here. Raise the minimum wage so the sheeple can get ahead? Can't do that. What to do? What to do? Sign Junior up for the Marines so he can die in an illegal war . . . I mean fund his education. They follow Shrub like lemmings going off a cliff and into the sea. I blame them 100%. They've destroyed my country.

[tallahasseedem]

56. I blame each and every one of them.

I could possibly give them a pass on the 2000 election but NOT 2004.

[bobbolink]

59. Every one of them. Voting carries a HUGE responsibility.

I've heard an immigrant, who ran from Communism in what is now the Czech Republic, say he voted for Reagan because he and his wife asked people they worked with who to vote for, and were told to vote for Reagan, and he figured Reagan would be good for his business.

So, it was all about him, and even being a new citizen, he didn't take it seriously enough to do his own research, he took the word of others.

Funny thing is, now he sees what it lead to, but can't bring himself to admit he was wrong, and shares responsibility for what has come about.

It's interesting that those on the bottom rung of this society are constantly told to "take responsibility for their situation", but those who vote in ignorance don't seem to have any responsibility for what they cause.

Ignorance is no excuse!

[Time for change]

60. Yes, I blame them

Voting and citizenship is not just a right, it is also a responsibility. If you vote you should take some time to learn about who you are voting for.

[bdamomma]

110. they voted for sound bites.

[HughBeaumont]

62. Every damned idiot who still sports that filthy sWastika '04 on their car

. . . and there are PLENTY still in Ohio, as if that's something to still brag about, gets pointed and laughed at. Long and loud. Followed by a headshake. They deserve every BIT of ridicule. Let's paraphrase Pauline Kael: part of being an educated individual means having a bullshit detector. If these fucking idiots can't see the forest for the trees with this Chimp, if they can't see everything wrong that he's doing to this country, it's economy, it's environment, it's middle class, it's military . . . they deserve all the blame in the world when they're no longer able to afford health care, when SS is dried up, when there are no more social services to speak of.

WHY was this vote even close to begin with? Do people have no bullshit detectors any more? Is Kelso no longer The King?

[AngryAmish]

63. They are subhuman and will be held to account

The day of cleansing our nation will come.

[DocSavage]

100. Cleansing?

And what would you mean by that? I, personally would not care to cleanse my parents or brother that are repubs, nor would I do it to by co-workers and boss. Are you advocating cleansing like a certain fuher did in the 40's?

Could it also be that maybe, just maybe, the democratic nominee was too far left for moderate voters to vote for?

[Lost4words]

133. TOO FAR LEFT?

anyone who is "Moderate" now or in 2004 is in my opinion a Traitor to the constitution and is no friend of mine.
:puke:

[blues90]

64. I blame them entirely

If anyone who voted for bush had not known about his past or even thought about how he just came out of nowhere being the none elected Governor of texas which was just another rove inspired setup . If they voted for bush strictly out of ignorance of some false christian faith then they would have been better off not voting at all .

So ALL the blood is on their hands and 2004 just enforces this fact for me . People are so ridiculous and insanely stupid to vote for bush based on the simpleton ideals he has . He said he was a war president and does not know where Bin is and does not think about him much at all , this was before the 2004 stolen election .

i can't stand the fact that i have to share this country with such a bunch of freaks who support any form of killing or torture and death let alone the complete destruction of Iraq simply because they harbor so much hate for anyone darker than themselves .

[Asgaya Dihi]

65. Depends on the voter

There are some who are just hostile assholes with no care for anyone but themselves, there are others though who honestly thought they were doing the right thing. If we treat both the same we'll never win over the voters we need to change things.

Like with most things I can compare this to the drug war. The Democrats drove through eight years of it recently with record numbers of marijuana arrests and a growing prison system and most I'm sure did think they were doing the right thing. There's lots of reasons in the world to resent people but that's normally not the way toward a solution, dealing with people is.

The ones who are just hostile jerks, ignore them. The rest talk with them and see if you can't share a point of view or a bit of knowledge that could change things. There's lots of things out there we should have known about but many of us didn't, that wasn't always through bad intent or our own fault so much as it was to being betrayed ourselves and trusting our leaders to tell us the truth about where we stand. Change the leaders, don't blame the followers.

[FlippyDoo]

66. It's sort of yes and no for me.

Some surely do know what they are doing and should be held accountable. But some are just folks from the woods and bijou that don't really follow the issues. They are apt to vote for whoever their friends vote for. They don't really know what they're doing.

[leftofthedial]

67. anyone who ever voted for reagan, george the first or george the lesser

is an accomplic to crimes against humanity

treason

and multi-trillion-dollar thefts

period

[Ladyhawk]

70. How much do you blame ME?

I reluctantly voted for the chimp in 2000. I had a lot of personal issues to deal with, so I really hadn't been paying attention to politics for many years. Mind you, these were serious issues: life-threatening issues. I didn't have the time or presence of mind to wade through the media bullshit to figure out what was going on.

I finally started thinking, "Fuck...something's wrong!" when the drumbeat for war in Iraq started. I figured it out and switched party affiliations. I stopped voting for Republicans and became very concerned about what was happening in our country.

When my family voted for the chimp in 2004, I was very angry with them, but in hindsight, blaming them is pretty hypocritical of me. I could point out that I haven't been on the same page as the Republicans in many, many years and that my family really is greedy. They really don't care as long as they get theirs. When I brought up the massive debt the weed has incurred, I asked, "Who is going to pay it." My mother said she didn't care as long as it wasn't her. Very selfish. Very greedy. My whole family is the same way. They will never change.

Yet, I still care about many of them, despite the wedge driven between us. The pain of loving someone with morality issues is very difficult to deal with. At this point, I'm thinking we're all human and prone to the same mistakes. Had I not attended college, I'd still be toeing the Republican Party line. I'd still be lost in dogmatic fundamentalism. Even as a fundy Republican, I had the best of intentions and would never have invoked greed to support my position as has my family. Yet my voting patterns would have been the same.

How much do you blame me, now?

How much would you blame a Ladyhawk who never had the chance to be exposed to ideas outside the fundy Republican bubble?

These questions are hard for me because I lived it and no longer belong. For awhile I bet I was angrier than any of you because I had been conned, because I'd finally seen through it and no longer had anything in common with my family. I wasn't "angry." I became anger, itself. I loathed myself for ever believing that crap and loathed my family for continuing to believe that crap. I wanted--and still want--to stay as far away from my family as possible...yet part of me understand why they believe the things they do.

So, go ahead and congratulate yourselves for seeing through the bullshit. I did...and at the same time I hated myself for not seeing through the bullshit even sooner.

The human race...either all of us make it or we don't deserve to make it. I say this as someone still thoroughly conflicted with herself. I don't know the answer, but hypocritically congratulating myself isn't going to help.

[deaniac21]

75. Leftofthedial thinks you are an accomplic....

:shrug:

[leftofthedial]

77. and should be held accountable

just like a member of a bank robbing gang who later turns himself in and helps to convict the rest of the gagn would

there is, and has been, a plethora of evidence that the neocon movement has always been a criminal enterprise that anyone who claims they were duped is being intellectually dishonest.

[deaniac21]

78. Oh, accomplice.......nevermind.

[Ladyhawk]

80. Thanks...I think. :|

Leftofthedial is welcome to that opinion. Only I know what I was going through at the time and the series of events that made me regret my decision.

[deaniac21]

121. People are people. We are all human which means, with the

exception of some DU'ers, we all make mistakes in our lives.

[Ladyhawk]

79. Sorry, but I wasn't being intellectually dishonest.

I really had no idea what I was doing. You can either believe that or continue to hate anyone who ever voted "incorrectly." I'm sure it will win you a lot of hearts and minds, eh?

[leftofthedial]

84. winning "hearts and minds" is not the issue

survival of the species is

survival of democracy is

respect for truth is

respect for justice is

just as with a criminal defendant, many extenuating and exculpatory factors come into play in each case.

my opinion is that having enabled the neocon takeover of America is an act for which each person should be held accountable

[Ladyhawk]

81. So, despite the fact I was raised fundy in a fundy school, a fundy church

and a fundy family and allowed no outside contacts with other points of view, you blame me even though I eventually figured it out? It looks like you're as much a victim of fundamentalist thought as I was. I'm sorry. I know it's easy to backslide once you're taught an all-or-nothing point of view.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. Well Two Things Hawk

First, you didn't vote for him in 2004 after it was patently obvious he was a buffoon acting as a mouthpiece for a gang of criminals. That's a plus.

Secondly, you admit you were wrong.

I couldn't care less about winning the hearts and minds of people who still won't admit they were wrong by supporting this idiot with their vote. If they can't see the mistake by now, they're irretrievable. If they're insulted by my attitude; GOOD!

As you your 2000 thing. My dad was dying that year. My wife had a breakdown. The stress of those two things caused a severe exacerbation of my MS. Yet somehow i knew that Silverspoon was a fraud, a liar, an idiot, and a frontman for some really bad folks.

I think personal situation can go only so far as an excuse.
The Professor

[Ladyhawk]

116. I don't think I can completely understand what you were going through.

Nor can you understand what I was going through. I had just had electricity applied to my brain seven times within a two-week period. I had gone through a bout of amnesia, just like you see on those stupid soap operas, only mine was real. I was a vegetable for a few months and couldn't remember basic things like how to turn on the TV with the remote or how to log on to IRC.

I had mostly recovered by the time of the election, but unless I was specifically reminded of things, sometimes I couldn't remember them. Obviously my mind wasn't on the election. Even if it had been on the election, there's a good chance I wouldn't have remembered some important things. My brain had been literally scrambled. And yes, prior to this I had suffered an emotional collapse that had lasted for years. I mostly slept and did nothing else during the preceding years. My mind couldn't function. Should I have voted? Maybe not. Was I in a position to decide whether or not I should vote. No. Should there be a law against allowing people who have undergone ECT in the previous year to vote? I don't fucking know.

So, in order to show that your statement is judgmental, I have to air my dirty laundry. You're not the only one who has gone through shit, ProfessorCAG. Nor can you speak for everyone who has gone through shit because each person's experience is different. I would expect you to be less judgmental as a result of your trials, but sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Blanket statements condemning everyone are for freepers. Apparently, this site isn't any better.

[ProfessorGAC]

120. What The Hell Are You Talking About?

I aired my personal information, and merely stated that you weren't the ONLY one who had things to distract them. And yet, the plurality still voted against the criminals.

And, if you were less self-centered, you would know that MY POINT was that YOU are not the only one who has gone through shit. You used your first 3 posts to excuse your decision by implying that nobody else could have understood. Well, quit being such a martyr. Lots of other people have had tough times too, and i would think you would be more sympathetic to that fact. But, instead you jumped right into insulting others and putting words into my mouth (i judged NOTHING about you, except that you were thinking you were the only one who ever had tough times).

Please get a grip on yourself. For your own good.
The Professor

[bluestateguy]

93. I would have been very angry with you 3 or 4 years ago

But the 2004 was the chance for Nader voters, Bush voters and non-voters to redeeem themselves, and you did.

[PassingFair]

99. "yet part of me understand why they believe the things they do. "

I'm not flaming you here, Ladyhawk, but can
you explain what "part" you "understand".

Is it the religious control?
Is is fear of their own mortality?
Both?

And what can we do to bring a true sense of
reality and consequence to people like your
family?

I come from a long line of freethinkers,
and always value your insights and
experience with "faith".

:hi:

[NewJeffCT]

112. I guess I'm in the minority here...

But, I am glad that you have woken up to reality. I realize that probably 70-80% of America is not nearly as passionate about politics as folks on DU, DailyKos, etc (and FR on the other side).

Personally, I think a lot of moderate, middle-of-the-road types will listen more to a former Republican than somebody like me, who is a lifelong liberal.

So, somebody like a David Brock at MediaMatters or Arianna Huffington, I think are more effective than some on our side.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

137. I don't blame you at all. You live in California. Bush got his ass kicked

here twice :D

[Lost4words]

143. Inside that bubble I am sure you learned to dislike

those damed soft hearted liberals. You voted against ME LadyHawk and you didnt even know what I stand for.

I believe in an America for ALL Americans, quality education, affordable health care, laws to protect the consumer from profit hungry corporations. The ability to sue corporations who sell defective products that injure or kill "we the people". The ability for a family to receive assistance in the event of a catastrophic illness or financial hardships.
To be protected from gouging energy companies, just to name a few.

That is what you voted against when you voted republican. You voted for my Job to go to India.

Rational drug laws with the penalties the same for Juan Garcia as for Rush Limbaugh.

Why do you hate ME? Do you still dislike or distrust liberals?

Clinton under COPS "community oriented policing" put more police on the streets for our protection, under bush the number of police and local police budgets have dropped, is that what you wanted?

Are you wealthy and you wanted to keep more of your cash, perhaps you are young, that would be a valid reason.
I really dont get it.

For me the GOP is the party of "I've got mine to hell with you" and its taken me 52 years to know that is the truth.

If I have an enemy in the world, that wants to hurt me or my family, its the GOP and the Democrats in name only.
:puke:

[bonemachine]

148. My problem is that

While the Republicans may be the enemy, the Democratic party has been little more than the enemy of my enemy. Sure there are differences, and yes, I prefer the Dems over the Reps, but if I had a real set of choices, not the false two, I would never pick either.

[Lost4words]

152. True, the establishment Dems have done little or nothing.

and in effect we have become a 1 party system that has two separate but similar branches.
I dont have any faith that the Democratic party has the where with all to make much of a change. We have become the Soviet Union. We are listened to, watched, profiled, and if we present much of impairment to the new US government we will be targeted as an enemy of the state and dealt with accordingly.

[butterfly77]

72. YES,YES ,YES.YES.YES, YES.

[Obamarama]

74. Absolutely, including my dumb-ass Resmuglican sister.

They are ALL responsible.

[VelmaD]

76. I have blamed them from the very beginning

One only had to look at his record as a "bidnessman" or his record as governor of Texas to know he was completely unqulaified to run a quick-e-mart...much less the country.

Anyone who voted for him is a moron. End of discussion.

[Ladyhawk]

82. Kicking. Please go on. I want to hear more people blame me. n/t

[guinivere]

85. Sorry. You won't hear me blame you.

I do not personally blame every single person that voted for the shrub. At the end of the day, the shrub is responsible for the mess/his actions. I know of quite a few Republicans that are very, very disgusted. Besides if the election was stolen, you can't blame the voters.

[Ladyhawk]

87. But, but, but Leftofthedial says I'm a traitor.

He/she/it says I'm an accomplice. He/she/it says I should be held responsible. Don't you believe in personal responsibility?

Why do you hate America?

[ProfessorGAC]

111. Gee. I'm Thinking Of A Word

H-y-p-e-r-s-e-n-s-i-t-i-v-i-t-y. Yeah, that's it.
The Professor

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProfessorGAC]

119. How Original

Are you always this boring? If you noticed in the other post to you i said there's a huge difference here in that you admitted you made a mistake, prior to 2004. Apparently, you would rather be hypersensitive than to really discuss any of this.

And no, i won't alert the mods for your personal insult. I am not the hypersensitive one.
The Professor

[Lost4words]

135. Dont you think you bear some responsibility, what were you thinking?

[Lost4words]

164. I dont blame you personally., I am gratefull you are here now!

and thats the truth.

[Caretha]

86. I think that everyone

in every town, city or berg should get their phone book out and make at least one hour of calls each evening......starting with the "A's"

Hi, I'm so and so and I'm calling to find out if you voted in the last Presidential election". If they did ask them...."do you mind telling me who you voted for?"

If they voted for Bush.......yell into the phone.....you Fucking Idiot Traitor! The country is going down the tubes and it's all your fault for being stupid. You should never be allowed within 200 yards of a ballot booth again in life."

Then hang up :)

Sometimes I have these little fantasies

[flyarm]

88. 100%...if we could know the truth ..they could to..they just chose not to!

[Ladyhawk]

89. I'm not wanted here if this is the general consensus.

Many of you are leaving no room for someone to say, "I made a mistake" and move on. Mike Malloy said something akin to this one night several months ago. That was the night I stopped listening to him. Here you are congratulating yourselves on being so much smarter than everyone else, yet you fail to realize that taking such a hard line position puts you on moral parity with fundamentalists. I've been there and done that, too, and it isn't helpful.

To leftofthedial and others: thank you so much for making me feel like a piece of shit. After switching to the Democratic Party, I was more politically active than I'd ever been in my life, but for some of you, that simply isn't enough. My past life has to be pure as the driven snow. This place really is the antithesis of Free Republic and getting nastier all the time.

[marions ghost]

125. understand where the negativity is coming from Ladyhawk

When your political group has been abused for years and you have watched everything you care about in life being trampled, stolen, and otherwise messed up--there is NOT a lot of generosity left. It's unrealistic to expect it, although I agree with you that people who admit their mistakes are certainly a cut above those who won't face their complicity. Those who publicly admit it, as you did, deserve credit for that at least--it can give others who got caught up in the mass delusion the courage to look at exactly what happened to them. How can so many people allow their brains to be hijacked? For everyone who is a diehard Repuglican out of narrow-mindedness and greed there is another one who just fell for the spin. As we all know, scare tactics and well-executed character assassination played a large part in the last selection (along with plain old theft). Can you blame people for being so susceptible? Not without acknowledging the part of the media. The mass media is every bit as guilty of bringing the curse of the House of B/Usher down on us as the average voter is.

Admitting mistakes does not make up for the serious crimes that have been done against us all, but it is a positive step. However you are looking for forgiveness in the wrong place IMO. You can't expect those who have been fighting this juggernaut under duress for so long to give you much support. However you are in a unique position to speak to those who are ex-Repuglicans because of this regime. You can influence them, help them comes to terms with it. I could imagine emerging EX-Booshites might actually need a support group to get over it and get on with it. (Get on where?--I imagine some don't have anywhere to go after the brainwashing they underwent).

But understand that our democratic wing of the Democratic Party is really just too burned at this point to care about the feelings of those who actively supported the BFEE. We can try to understand how it happened, rationalize it somehow--but it's up to you guys to fix.

[kentuck]

126. Ladyhawk is to be commended...

for recognizing the direction we were going and having the common sense to change course. I admire that quality. Unfortunately, she seems to be a very unique and rare individual, compared to most of the kool-aid drinkers that are still supporting this disaster called the Bush Administration.

[marions ghost]

129. yes agreed

it is commendable to have waked up whenever it occurred, and to admit a mistake publicly takes courage.
It can have a positive effect, esp on those like LH who are now questioning why they ever supported the BFEE in the first place. It also helps the rest of us to hear the stories of new ex-Booshies. But at the same time LH should not become miffed when not given big strokes for her personal epiphany, from hardcore Dems/liberals. The cuts are too deep, the hurts too deep. "Moving on" for any of us may not be that easy. Right now sane people of whatever party need to come together to categorically reject the agenda of the criminals posing as our 'leaders.' It's a time for action now. Right, the people who still drink the kool-aid are obviously the truly lost. We do not yet know how many of them remain, but I'm sure it's still significant. That's some really powerful kool-aid they ladle out.

[Brigid]

90. Of course I blame them.

How could they have been so blind. And after years of being mocked by them, in the words of a certain musical group, I'm not ready to make nice. That doesn't mean that some haven't seen the truth. If they have then welcome. If they're still so willfully blind, then they're part of the problem.

[bluestateguy]

91. I kind of have an "I told you so" attitude about the whole thing

Got soaked at the gas pump? Here's quarter. Call someone who cares.

Your son was killed in Iraq? Hm. Maybe you should be more careful when voting next time.

Got nailed with the AMT tax this year? Ha Ha! Bye bye Bush tax cut! Giggle...

My attitude towards non-voters is almost as cruel. I once refused to give money to a bum on the street because he said that he did not bother to vote in 2004.

[Raine]

92. I blame them...

the election was stolen by the party but the rethug voters made it easy and possible to do. :mad:

[cynatnite]

94. I think many are easily duped...

they pay little attention to news, even corporate news, spend too much time with their noses in the bibles and if a politician says 'I'm a born again christian' with their literalist bible views, they buy it hook, line and sinker. These people I blame somewhat. Some of them do regret their vote.

For a smaller portion, bush would have to sacrifice babies, children and virgins on live TV in order for them to think twice. They're programmed by Coulter, O'Lielly, and Limpballs.

For the richest of them...it's all about lining their own pockets.

The bottom two, I place a hell of a lot of blame on them. They're either greedy beyond belief or their hatred of liberals trumps any christian love they're supposed to have for others.

[rucky]

95. Nope. It wasn't the voters that put him in power. n/t

[KyuzoGator]

96. I blame them personally and I take it as a personal insult. nt

[tlsmith1963]

97. I Blame Them 100%

They don't use their brains. It will be a long time before I forgive them, if ever.

Tammy

[bdamomma]

101. after seeing what this country has become

I hold each Republican responsible, for taking us on the wrong track.

[BlooInBloo]

103. You don't blame a snake for biting you do you?

That's what snakes DO.

You blame the jackass who put the snake in your bed.

For the metaphorically-challenged: snake = republican politician.

[Ganja Ninja]

108. They deserve all the blame for being hateful dumb asses.

These are people that refuse to wake up. Take Rush Limbaugh for example. He admits he's a drug addict and yet all they do is wish him well and hope he hurries back to spoon feed them more lies.

The rest of the RW blowhards and christian money grubbers are no better. They've all at one time or another been discredited and made fools of themselves. And don't get me started on FOX news watchers. The faithful morons keep tuning in like clockwork. They nod along even when they know it's a lie because it's the right wing thing to do.

They have no other choice but to buy and keep buying because the alternative is liberalism. Brown people, gays, environmentalists, non-christians, anybody and everybody they hate are liberals.

So hate and stubborn stupidity are what they base their decisions on and I blame them for that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

109. Two Categories: The Ignorant and the Greedy. My mother-in-law

ONLY listens to Fox and Rush - ONLY. That is all she knows and takes it all for Gospel. She is a nice to me and others, but I think of her as intellectually lazy and ignorant.

The other category is those repigs who KNOW what's going on and chose the repig party because they don't give a shit about anyone less fortunate and all they care about is money and possessions.

I don't hate either. But I respect neither. Ignorance and greed.

[bdamomma]

117. also arrogance should be included

that smug/arrogant attitude that many Republicans have.

[atommom]

113. That's a hard question to answer, because most of my family

has been taken in by the Republicans. They fell for it because of religion, because they thought that the Republicans were more godly. I'm not religious myself, and I can't believe they could be so gullible, but I can see how it would happen. They belong to different denominations, but all go to conservative churches where they're told to accept things on faith, and put faith in their leaders. Then they go home and turn the TVs to a channel that won't conflict with what they were just told in church (which usually means Fox), and get fed RW nonsense that they believe is news. It's a self-perpetuating cycle ... they get to the point where they can't bear to think that what they're being told is wrong. It would shake up their worldview too much.

And no, these are not unintelligent people, if you ask them about anything non-political.

[NoSheep]

114. I blame them greatly. They are willing accomplices to his crimes.

[newportdadde]

115. Like the Scorpion voting Republican is in their nature.

It breaks down to the following:

Abortion is wrong - vote Republican

I pay too much in taxes and of course all my taxes go to support lazy fat minorities - vote Republican

My husband is in the military and is a career officer(Major) and I don't want him to get cut I like my healthcare, free housing etc - vote Republican(ow but don't actually send him to Iraq please).

I'm greedy and want every sent to stay mine and I don't want to pay for anything I just want to get to use it for free - vote Republican.

Nothing will ever change their mind. Its like the Scorpion riding on the back of the Fox. "Why did you sting me Scorpion now we both will drown?" "I can't help it." said the Scorpion. "Its in my nature.".

So do I blame them? Yes they should no better, if a Democrat behaves like this and I voted to reelect them then same on me too.

[K8-EEE]

122. I Have 2 Ex-Friends After The Last Election

I'll give people a pass for 2000 cuz maybe they BELIEVED the schtick...but after Iraq, and the filthy swiftboating campaign in 2004? Anybody who voted for him last time is either so stupid or so mean or SOMETHING...I only know 2 people that did, but I really avoid them like the plague now. Just can't even look at them without thinking, THANKS A LOT MORON!

[Hobarticus]

123. Citizenship has some responsibility...and not being a moron is one of them

I'd say they were suckered the first term....the second term, they were volunteers. I hope they remember that when they open their paper this morning to see that Congress denied a minimum-wage hike, after they just gave themselves a raise. They'll reap what they sow.

[OnionPatch]

124. I do blame them to an extent

No, I don't hate them like I do Bush. (Well...maybe a few of them :evilgrin: ) but I damn sure blame most of them for one reason: They didn't do any fact-checking. Sure the media lies to them all the time and that's a pretty good excuse for being un-informed. But I think they needed to look around and try to understand why so many people in the US and the freaking WORLD for that matter, hated their man and his policies. If some of them had just thought a little deeper, maybe even read their precious Bibles, they may have found that Jesus' teachings contradicted a whole hell of a lot of Republican policy. So yes, I blame them. It's their responsibility as citizens to be informed and to be on the alert for propaganda.

[Lost4words]

127. I blame every repuke and any democrat that wasnt OUTRAGED 12/12/2000!

Frankly, for those who didnt see this coming, I really have to question your intelligence.

What the crap were you all thinking?

It was nothing less than a junta with the supreme court in their pocket.

Anyone who truly thought the pukes could be beaten in 2004, you were dreaming.

I'll be surprised if they dont do it again in the mid term election and in 2008. They have too much to lose.

Why would anybody support the idiot son of an idiot son of a NAZI?

I blame anybody who gave this junta any credibility what so ever.

[BlueIris]

132. I blame the lazy and apathetic (not to mention SELFISH) voters on the Left

more. So, you voted. And...? Oh, nothing else? Too busy at "work" maintaining your precious status? 'Cause that seems to be a lot of complaining you're doing there. And blaming the Party for "allowing the Republicans to control the discussion," "not leading effectively" and "selling us out." To take action against this you did...what, exactly? Started a blog?

[ProfessorGAC]

134. Huh?

It's the fault of people who agreed with us about the wholly unqualified Silverspoon? That doesn't make sense at all. How can you blame the people who agreed with you?
The Professor

[kentuck]

136. My thoughts exactly..

Huh?? :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

139. I think she is referencing the ones that sat on their hands the past

two elections as well as about 10,000 in Fla in 2000.

[ProfessorGAC]

140. Still Don't Get It, NSMA

No matter what, i don't get how you can blame anyone who agreed with you and voted the same way.

I'm not getting how they can be blamed for any of this. They got it. They did the right thing. Where's the line? If they haven't engaged in armed insurrection yet, are they still to blame?

Just doesn't make sense to me to blame those who agreed with us.
The Professor

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

142. Again, what about those who agreed and didn't vote at all

or voted for Nader in FLA. Remember there were two states where Nader votes made the difference in 00. Fla by a 600 vote margin and IIRC, Vermont (? too lazy to look it up and can't recall)

[ProfessorGAC]

144. That I Get

OK now i get it. I interpreted the first post as complaining about those who voted against the silverspoon, for Gore (or Kerry) and didn't take to the streets when the election went south.

If it's about those who didn't vote and let it be close enough to be stolen, then i get it. Thanks
The Professor

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

145. Exactly. I am not sure what the statistics are now, but we know there

were actually more liberal and left leaning voters in America at the time of the 00 elections. George Bush made it no secret during the elections in 00 that he had his eye on Iraq.

It's like the recall in California for Governor Davis. The Republicans would have NEVER had enough signatures were it not for Peter Camejo geting GREENS to carry recall petitions around college campuses.

[ProfessorGAC]

146. Yep. Same Page

I mistinerpreted the earlier post. I thought she was talking about those folks who actually voted the same way we did, but didn't become revolutionaries, or something.
The Professor

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

149. Actually I just reread her post and think *I* may have misinterpreted

Although she does have a bit of a point which is that voting isn't enough in an emergency...it's like spitting real hard when the house is on fire...either way...always nice to exchange thoughts with you, Prof. ;)

[datasuspect]

169. *SOME* on the left are complicit

in a way . . .

those of us who JUST voted could not have anticipated what was to come. i personally thought g.w. cockmunch was a joke and would be soundly drummed out if elected, which, at the time seemed like a very BIG if.

but when the coup was taking place, it should have been incumbent for more voices to chime in; when the selection occurred, people should have RIOTED.

but hindsight is 20/20 and if i had known what was to happen, i would have tried to do more.

but that's the problem: coulda shoulda woulda.

the above-mentioned does not in any way disparage the efforts of those who DID do all they could to prevent president assfuck from taking over.

[slackmaster]

138. Emphatically NO!

I don't blame Republican citizens for casting votes that they believe (rightly or wrongly or both) are in their best interests or the interests of the country.

I DO blame all the people who whine about the way things are, and who didn't bother to register or vote.

ETA Our system is inherently adversarial at all levels. Without contrary positions, the value of any point of view is diminished. Without a robust opposition, any party that is in power will become lazy and corrupt.

[Lost4words]

150. Do you blame GOP ers that ran registration drives and trashed Dem forms?

Like Sporril and Associates, and many more gop operatives that did much the same thing?

those are stolen votes, fraud for the GOP. If you steel my vote you might as well as turn off the lie of USA Democracy.

I dont blame them for voting their conscience any more than I would blame the devil for voting for the Holocaust.

But I would like the Earth to be free of the devil and every repukelikan.

The GOP has no problem lying cheating and ripping off their fellow countrymen and women all for the holly dollar.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

151. Well yeah, except that Ralph Nader used that same company last

election in about 6 states including Arizona and other swing states

[Lost4words]

153. So your point is? What registrations did they destroy for Nader?

Nader used them so their crimes mean nothing?

To me it puts Nader in a bad light. Hire the ones that cheat the best????????

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

154. Nader used Nathan Sproul and associates...the same firm

And I think you misinterpreted my point. My point was that Nader was as demonic as Rpublicans in using this tactic and unfortunately using it quite liberally in swing states

[Lost4words]

163. Got it! And yes I did misinterpret your point. Sorry (-:

I have a hard time that most USA citizens are more concerned with accurate voting on American Idol than the general elections.

I would have thought that Nader was above this sort of thing. But he must be learning from the GOP.

[slackmaster]

159. Of course I don't support criminal activity or fraud

By anyone, be they Democrat or Republican or whatever.

Why do you ask?

:shrug:

[Blaukraut]

141. I blame them completely, and here is why...

We were all subjected to the same media. Most of us had access to alternative news sources, not just Fox,CNN,MSNBC, and their ilk. I'm not talking about just the internet.
There is no excuse for those who were either unable, or unwilling, to weed out the truth through the propaganda. If we could do it, they could have done it. They chose not to, so the blame can be laid fully at their feet.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

147. I have a hard time with this question.

What is happening to our country didn't happen over 4 or 5 years. It happened over several decades but really ramped up during the Clinton administration.
The greed vote was actually enabled by Clinton with his trade policies and the line between Democrats and Republicans began to blur by 00. The working class vote has been up for grabs for years.

Even when the Dems controlled the house, the senate and the presidency, minimum wage was not raised in a meaningful way.

Over the late 80's and 90's Right to Work laws diluted the impact and power of unions (along with the sheer loss of union jobs thanks to NAFTA) Therefore, one of the biggest democratic party allies was muted by 2000.

Clinton also had 8 years to raise the status of women in the country ( a huge voting block) and but for a few bones really didn't. Instead he demeaned it with his obvious persona as a womanizer.

I can blame the party as a block but I can't blame anyone who really thought they were voting in their best interest. After all, that's what we all do depending on what we interpret our best interest to be.

I blame the GRAND WURLITZER more than I blame the people that listened to it.

[Yollam]

155. Not as much as Bush, but I dislike them.

Ignorance is not a good excuse for immoral behavior. It's incumbent on each citizen to stay well-informed, and that does not mean watching 15 minutes of infotainment on Fox after work. You gotta do a bit of homework - OR DON'T VOTE AT ALL.

[shance]

156. It's not Republicans. Its people who are obsessed with taking everything

consuming everything and owning everything and ultimately destroying everything. These people aren't Republicans. They aren't Democrats. They don't have a moral compass really. They are often dangerous people who are like children who have not been told the word "no".

Its the people who are driven by fear and control and are obsessed with having everything that others have. It's never enough even after they've killed, pillaged and harmed many. Its never enough, unless they finally are faced with feeling pain which they have pawned off on everyone else to experience for them all their lives.

[Lost4words]

158. LadyHawk, I have liked you for some time, you are an important member

of this crazy group. I have made many mistakes in my life, I was a 100% product of my enviornment.
I have many things I have done that I am ashamed of, it has taken me years to understand myself and how my enviornment effected my outlook on life and other people. It wasnt until after years of living my own life away from family that I found myself. I was so blind that until I walked in someones elses shoes I had no Idea how they felt. Until I experienced true predgidious I couldnt know how it hurt.

Anyone on this board who admits voting for *, has strength of character IMO. Please dont confuse * frustration with hostility toward you personally.

All I want is ligetimate voting and representation. And fair accurate coverage in the media.
I live in a dream world I guess.

PS I voted for Bush in 1999 in the Virginia Primary hoping he would get the GOP nomination thinking that nobody would vote for him in the general election.

We would be poorer without your presence here.

We all make mistakes but few actually admit to them, you did and I respect you for it.

God Bless You LadyHawk!

jim

[Joey Liberal]

161. I despise all republicans

They have willingly ruined this country.

[Joey Liberal]

162. I wont even let a republican on my property n/t

[Lumily]

167. Me either.

Sometimes my neighbors across the street (that still have their "W" stickers on their cars) have to talk to my husband because of Home Owners Association crap. I won't even let him or his wife stand our driveway. They can talk on his porch or in the street in they have to talk to him.

Yeah, I blame them all.

[Joey Liberal]

173. I live in a right winger neighborhood too

I'm sure my DU bumper sticker makes them madder than hell! But, my 80 pound pit bull (a proud Democrat) makes them think twice before entering my yard. During the last elections, Democrat yard signs were vandalized -but not mine.

[FiveGoodMen]

170. White hot flame of hate.

Citizens' shouldn't just to hear a couple of sound bites and decide the world's fate accordingly. Being informed is a duty in a democracy. Especially one with nukes.

Plenty of times you can tell BushCo is lying just by listening. Such as when Bush was ramping up to attack Iraq and the reasons kept changing (and being debunked) but the goal never wavered.

Also, the divisive anti-gay, anti-immigrant, etc. etc. stuff should put decent people off no matter who says it or in what context.

They may be fooled about specific events by the media, but the general tone and nature of this administration is right out in the open. I don't believe there are any excuses to side with Bush.

[godhatesrepublicans]

171. Anyone voting Repub in '04 is as culpable as any Nazi Party member.

I'll let them slide for falling for *'s BS in '00, since Gore did such a piss-poor job of accentuating the differences between him and *.

But in '04, anyone who didn't know * and company were evil were deliberately sticking their heads in the sand. Not only should the entire White House staff stand for trial charged with war crimes, so should everyone who voted for them.

I admit this sounds extreme, but extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.

[laylah]

174. A LOT! n/t

[dave123williams]

175. 100%. I hold them 100% accountable.