Are we being lied to on number of Iraqis/troops dead and or injured?

[shance]

We read everyday about "eleven" or "seven" or even "one" troop or Iraqi dying and I keep thinking how are the propagandists using this single digits to fuck with the American citizens' cabeza? Looks less serious and more palatable when they just 'sprinkle' deaths upon us, versus deluging us with them.

So, how much we are being lied to in every area of importance by this Administration? Perhaps the better question is, has this Administration ever once told the truth about anything? I don't think they have.

I think we are coming to realize how much we have been swindled and interestingly how much money is being spent on paying companies like the Rendon Group and other PR think tanks to figure out the best way to promote war support and the best way to lie about the atrocities this Administration is committing and making us pay for it.

Frankly, I shudder to think of the real numbers and the real truth that is continually guarded and attempted to be kept under lock and key.

The truth is being held hostage, as are the Iraqis, and as our are men and women over there.

So what are the real numbers? Is there any way to know the truth?

[htuttle]

1. They don't report the injury statistics very often

...But the last time I'd heard it was over 15,000 (and that was last year). That's about a division's worth of troops out of action. The US has ten active divisions or so, making it about a tenth (or more) of the active military that has been put out of action in Iraq.

That's the very definition of 'decimated', BTW.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. With the Iraqis, yes.

As in any war, the number of enemies killed is greatly exaggerated and the number of civilians killed greatly underestimated.

The number of our own troops killed is accurate, since people at home are accounting for them.

[Terran1212]

3. Bush outried lied when asked by that reporter

He said there were 30,000 total Iraqis who had died (and the reporter asked total "civilians, military, and insurgents"), when they KNOW more than that many Iraqi SOLDIERS themselves died in the invasion of Iraq.

So he blatantly lied.

[wtmusic]

4. The best source

is iraqbodycount.net, and even they have to rely on casualty reports in the press.

[SmokingJacket]

5. I believe the number of Americans dead is accurate, but

not so with the Iraqis.

[shance]

10. And why do you believe that? Is it because you trust the Administration

and the Pentagon/Military to tell the truth about the troops and lie about the Iraqis?

I'm asking honestly.

How can we know that they are not lying about the number of American men and women dead? I think what is clear to me is if the number were higher, Americans would be more active in trying to get these kids back home.

Perhaps Im wrong and they are just using Iraqis to fight and kill one another. Oh and of course the private forces that they are hiring with our taxpayer money.

[SmokingJacket]

11. No, the reason I believe the number of Americans is correct is

because I researched it. Like most of us here, I disbelieve everything the administration says, and for a while I was certain they were lying about the number. There was that rumor that they weren't counting soldiers who died of injuries in Germany or in the US -- but a careful look at the lists shows that those soldiers are in fact being counted. I checked obituaries and news stories around the country against the casualty lists, and I couldn't find a single soldier who was not counted.

Have you seen this site? http://icasualties.org/oif/ I believe it is as accurate a count as there can be.

If an American servicemember died in Iraq and his or her name never appeared on the casualty lists, that soldier's family, friends, and fellow soldiers would make a HUGE deal of it. I have a couple of cousins over there, and I can tell you that if they died, I would make sure the world knew about it. Is it possible there are "secret" deaths, soldiers whose families/friends have been sworn to secrecy? I suppose! But I haven't seen evidence of that.

The number of contractors who have died is another thing altogether. Icasualties has a list, but they admit it's incomplete.

[shance]

12. Thanks for the info SJ*

Much appreciated.

[SmokingJacket]

15. No prob!

I keep my tinfoil hat on pretty tightly, but I like to have evidence to back up my paranoia. In that case, I couldn't find any. :hi:

[Breeze54]

13. Don't you think the families would know??

:shrug:

If I hadn't heard from my son, in more than a week, when he was in Iraq (as it was sometimes and longer),
I e-mailed him and usually got a response right away.
I also could contact 'those in charge' to get a 'well check' too or request that my son call home or e-mail!

[democracyindanger]

6. No.

We're not going to raise this stinker of a theory again, are we?

Ask icasualties.org. Put simply, they said that when they post even tiny mistakes, like the spelling of a name or the wrong unit, they immediately get calls from family members and friends to correct it. If soldiers were to just 'disappear,' they'd get swamped with letters asking why Jack or Jill Soldier isn't on the list.

So, no.

Iraqi casualties, that's a different matter. As some Pentagon butthole said: "We don't do body counts." Yeah, right.

[Breeze54]

9. That would be General Tommy Franks

“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

[Breeze54]

7. They don't have totals

on the number of iraqi's deaths. Just estimates... http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq
Min----------------Max
38475-------------42889

But I think the US and coalition deaths are reported up to date at icasualties.
I check with icasualties to see the totals.

http://icasualties.org/oif/
External Links (at the bottom of the above page)
Coalition Fatalities By Location Across Time
Iraqi Body Count
The Lancet Study (PDF)
The Brookings Iraq Index

[WhiteTara]

8. here's my fav site for Iraq casuality info

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[blues90]

14. So far they have lied about everything

I have no doubt they are lying about this too . There is no way we can check the numbers and we have no way of knowing how these numbers are arrived at . All I know is that troops that die in the field are counted but even with this there is no way to know . You would need a link with the complete co-operation of each and every troops family who would be willing and able to file the particulars for each troop who died during this occupation .

This may be possible and would be very useful information and to get the full effect it would have to be made public and easy for anyone to obtain , to this I say good luck to you .

Everything is a lie and this makes me physically ill . These are not only facts that should be made public for the general public but also to make each and every troop recognized for their loss even if they will never know about it .

I have a feeling the numbers are 10 times higher than we are told . If you were to count the days since this horror began and averaged 25 troops per day you have 5 years x 365 days = 1,825 x 25 = 45,625 troops killed since this began and you can cut this to be conservative by 50% and you have 22,812 troops killed . So this is the math in general .

I say we are once again being lied to and it will continue for god knows how long .

They know we can't get the facts on this or anything so they can easily say whatever they want , but 2,500 give me a break not in 5 years . I say 5 years because troops are included in Afghanistan and troops were in Iraq well before the 9/11 lie was tossed out on the people as the reason for their attacks . Break it down anyway you want and it's not 2,500 troops bu a long shot , but of course this is a conspiracy theory as they would have everyone believe .

[zonmoy]

16. do repukes ever tell the truth.