Back stories and apologies, of sorts...

[WilliamPitt]

...or perhaps an apologia...let's see where this goes...

Greetings!

As it has been a while since I posted, I'm going to introduce myself, so any of the new folks reading this aren't buried under an avalanche of DU-insider nonsense.

My name is Will, and I've been a DUer since 2001. I was here for the tax cut crap, the faith-based crap, and the nomination of, and eventual approval of, John Ashcroft as Attorney General.

When the US military planes got bunted out of the sky by the Chinese fighter planes, I was here. When George W. made sure the captured airmen, languishing in China, all had Bibles to keep them company, while he quietly kissed Chinese asses to keep us out of a war we'd surely lose (because China ownes a ton of our debt and can end our economy in a day if they so choose), I was here.

I was here when the US submarine, piloted by the civilian political hack donor, destroyed the Japanese fishing boat...

...and that, friends, was God displaying a sense of irony: the guy at the helm was there because he funded the establishment of the USS Missouri as a museum, and the Missouri was where the Japanese surrendered in WWII...

...so tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor...

...because as near as I can tell, He (being God) caused a US nuclear submarine to wreck a Japanese boat on the Pacific Ocean, said ocean being the largest representation of infinity on the planet...

...and the submarine that killed Japanese sailors was piloted by a rookie looking to preserve the boat where the Japanese surrendered in 1945...and so here we have a US sub piloted by a Missouri booster destroying a Japanese vessel in a body of water millions of square miles in width and breadth...and this was an accident?

Let's all give it up for God, the King of Comedians. He's here all week...try the veal!

...anyway...

I was here for all the early in-fighting, the stuff that seems quaint by comarison to what happens around here nowadays. Back then, the name "Nader" was good for 392 posts in a thread. You didn't have to put anything in the OP. You just had to write "Nader" in the subject line, maybe put a ---> :) <--- in the body, hit "post message"...and watch the fur fly. No, for those wondering, I never did that...oh hell, yes I did.

Getting published on the DU main page was as exciting, and as much of an honor, back then as it is now. The first essay I ever got published here was about the Voters Rights march in DC way way way way back in May of 2001. Remember that? Remember when stolen elections were the worst thing we had to worry about?

I wrote: "At the bottom, the Voter Rights March was about protecting the basic American right to vote, and about ensuring that all the votes which are cast are counted fairly and equally. If this seems like a reactionary and foolish platform, bear in mind that by the end of this day, May 19th, I would meet a dozen people from Florida who believed their votes had not been counted. The hurt and anger in their eyes was fresh and electric; after 157 days they had not 'gotten over it,' and were I to make a bet, I would confidently put money on the idea that they never, ever would."

Ah, the simpler days...

Do you remember the first truly kick-ass five-star stop-the-presses post you ever put up here? I do. Still got it in my back pocket. I wrote an essay titled God Sees the Freepers for American Politics Journal...and super-duper old-schooler couchpatater put up a thread to take note of it...and look how cute and tiny we were! Oh God...sffreeways, whyzayker, Johnyawl, Hamlette, zan, geniph, comsymp, JJ, enki23...*sigh*

...anyway...

I was here when James Jeffords woke up on the wrong side of the bed one fine day and flipped the Senate to the Democrats for the first time since 1994...and I was here for all the hopes that were created by that historically bold move...and I watched the Democratic leadership not know what to do with their newfound power...

...and I was here when Enron shit the bed, when everyone came to know the umbilical ties between that doomstruck corporation and George W.'s political fortunes...

...when the required Enron investigation went nowhere...

...because Joe Lieberman was chairing the controlling committee (thanks to Jeffords, Lieberman got to be a committee chairman), and since Lieberman had taken phattt (that's triple-t phatt) Enron dollars, he wasn't about to let an investigation into Enron, Congressional donations from the aforementioned, and the White House's umbilical ties to the aforementioned, get rolling for real...so there was a lot of talk...and no follow-through...and after a few calendar pages, I was here when the Democrats lost the Senate again in 2002.

Bill Grieder wrote about the wretched Enron Democrats phenomenon brilliantly for The Nation, and you can read about it all here. I suggest those who give their love, cash, respect and fealty to the Democrats, without reservation or condition, should read that article twice and then submit a book report.

I was here when there actually was an "Underground" on DemocraticUnderground. In those days - for any of you who don't know the back story - we were all scared to death. No one could quite believe what had happened in Florida...and DC, when that SCOTUS confab got done on December 12, 2000. Yeah, I remember the day. It was raining in Boston that night. I wrote an article for a webside that doesn't even exist anymore titled "Not My President" the night that decision came down. I finished it with the words, "Never forgive. Never forget."

So we were all feeling like we were on the run - and this was before 9/11, mind you - and I found this website, run by three guys brave enough to rock a DU banner along the parade route during the counter-inaugural demonstration for George W.'s first swearing-in. These three guys (Skinner, Elad, and EarlG) (!!!) busted out this forum in January of 2001, and only a few brave souls dared to speak the truth out loud here. The three guys, who have since morphed into "The Admins", had a bare-bones version of this site running, and had a special forum called "The Underground" going at the bottom of the forum stack.

It's funny, thinking about it now. There is no way - NO WAY - those three poor bastards, who had no idea what they were getting into with this thing, could ever get away with having a private "Underground" invitation-only section of this forum today. If you asked them, they'd say it was a bad idea to begin with - exclusivity, etc. - but what did they know back then?

It was all scary mayhem in the winter/spring of 2001. Given the GOP right-wing crazy-ass hammer that was about to come down on us all, it seemed wise at the time to have a password-protected nest for the warriors to talk...unencumbered by interpretations/distortions/attacks from the outside internet world...which, some may recall, was dominated by Freeper assholes, who had figured out the effectiveness of this medium way before we on the Left did.

Those asshats Freeped the screaming dog out of this place for days and weeks and months, relentlessly, and almost drove this site out of existence...but the "Underground" forum was where the resistance could be organized, and the bastards were beaten back. If you can get to the archives of "Old DU," you can read it and see it for yourselves. It was epic.

I was not here for those first few weeks of mayhem, and sadly, most of the DUers who stayed here and fought the good fight back in those days are gone now...and if any of you happen to read this, I tip my hat to you, and genuflect, and bow and scrape, because you made this place live and survive and thrive, and you know who you are.

(If you like DU, say a quiet thank-you to those fighters, who were here when posting on DU was a blood-sport...and, it bears noting, when Skinner and Elad and EarlG hung in and fought in the trenches along with the best of them...thankfully, they have the place so excellently patrolled by mods that they have been able to sheath their swords)

People here back then really, truly felt like they were working an "underground" back then. (Sidebar: after 9/11, we were all worried that the whole internet would get shut down in some draconian recinding-of-posse-commitatus lockdown, and so I organized a collection of email addresses in the event DU went down, so we could all keep in touch. Yeah, it was that important, and that scary, back then)

Nowadays - thankfully, and due in no small part to the admins, writers, and forum members here - we have no shortage of people today who feel/think/know that something has gone berzerkely wrong with this country. Back then, when the television was chanting the mantra - "This is an orderly transition of power...this is an orderly transition of power...everything is fine, all is well...this is an orderly transition of power..." - most of what you'd call the "old-schoolers" here felt like we were going insane.

Can this be happening?

Did we really just witness a broad-daylight election theft?

No one around me thinks this is worth raising hell about...oh my God...we just lost the country...

...and then we found this forum, and spoke our darkest fears, and were greeted with welcoming arms (more often than not, those arms belonged to Crewleader, who is and will always be the best of us, period and end of file), and we got to talk about how horrifically messed up things were. We felt like we weren't alone. It was a balm that is, so many terrible days hence, hard to describe. But it was real. It stood us up. It gave us courage. It fortified us. It reminded us that we had allies, and strength, and a reason to fight.

A good example of the darkness back then comes to mind...

Remember the day the anniversarry of Roe v. Wade came, not too many days after the inauguration, and the anti-choicers held their march in DC? Before 2001, their march was angry, frustrated, thwarted, pissed, and thank God (or Buddha or Yahweh or Vishnu or simple good Fate) for that. But on that rainy day in 2001, they marched on the White House with signs waving and banners flying, and they did so with soaring and shouted joy, because they knew they had an ally at 1600 Pennsylvania...

...and we here knew it, too, and we despaired. And we congregated here...and watched...and waited for the ram...

...and some of us went "Underground."

It was totally dumb, in retrospect. You posted here a while, wrote for the front page maybe (that was my in), and they'd invite you "Underground" after they decided you weren't a Freeper mole or a maniac. If you got tapped to join, your login and password would allow you into the "Underground" forum (much the way the mods get access to the moderator forum by logging in these days).

It was, for the most part, a secret place to organize a coordinated defense of the forum when the Freeps would stage an assault. People would get together to tag-team kamikaze Freeps, like that "L" guy - "Lothar" or something, I can't remember his name - who were always here looking for trouble. The "L" guy I can't remember was always in what you'd now call the "Gun Dungeon." We'd coordinate battle plans and drive them out.

(his name was lonster...I just remembered...oh lonster, you old meat puppet...)

I was actually the one who got the "Underground" shut down (who brought the cool kid, right?). Somehow, we got a Freeper infiltrator down there...someone who knew someone who knew someone who left their computer on while logged on to DU (I assume, or seem to recall, but it doesn't really matter), and a Freep clicked through and then posted on FR, "Hey look, I'm in 'The Underground,'" and posted a few copy-and-paste lines from inside there to prove it...and someone forwarded me the FR link, and I went goofy. Totally barmy.

I posted a thread in GD: "EVERYONE GET DOWNSTAIRS RIGHT NOW," because we Undergrounders called the Underground "downstairs" when we were in the regular forums, and in the Underground I posted a thread titled "There is a Freeper in the Underground," and linked to the evidence, and we were so cute and tiny, and it was so deadly serious, like someone was dirty-dicking the crown jewels or something...and the admins figured out what happened and shut the Underground down forever.

It was disappointing, back then.

It is kinda funny, looking at everything I've written so far, to remember what passed for "disappointments" back then. Bush v. Gore was a disappointment...and the fact that no Senator backed the Congressional Black Caucus to challenge that result was a disappointment...and the Dems geeking up the Enron investigation was a disappointment...and the approval of Ashcroft was a disappointment...and the passage of those tax cuts was a disappointment...

...and then...

I was here on Tuesday, September 11th, 2001. I was teaching high school back then, writing on the side, no books or nothing, and the massive, throbbing, world-eating ego I am so widely credited with enjoying today existed merely as a wee kernel, an acorn, some potential energy looking for a kinetic kick. I sat in a basement office in a small high school, getting ready to teach Journalism I, then Journalism II, then Freshman English, then I got lunch, then back to teaching Grammar, and then Sophomore English, and that was supposed to be it for the day. An easy day, for the most part. I had my first two periods free that day, and was in early, and was surfing the web for my daily dose of data before the kids came flooding in.

I remember being excited. You see, Newsweek had just previewed a kick-ass edition where they were going to blatantly and explicitly call the 2000 election results into question, and were going right to SCOTUS to do so. We got word about it on Monday the 10th. It was supposed to come out on September 11th.

We were PSYCHED. All of us. It was a DU Block Party on the 10th. We were organizing mass purchases of that edition of Newsweek, we were gaming up for a full-court-press...

I don't know how many of you remember this, but George and the crew were in deep, smelly poo as summer waned into fall back in 2001. Serious, stinky poo. The tax cuts were being ripped by spectrum-wide pundits, the faith-based nonsense was getting laughed around the block, and W. was looking every inch the hopeless rube we've known him for so long to be. They might as well have written "One-Term Dunce, Just Like Papa" on his forehead.

He was meat.

On September 3rd, 2001, I wrote an essay titled "Late to the Party," about the press and the Democrats finally having some hard public words for this bonehead, for another website that doesn't exist anymore. I said this at the end: "As for Mr. Bush, he is about to learn a lesson that Bill Clinton once eloquently described: never make enemies with people who buy ink by the barrel."

Things were looking up.

Once upon a time, someone here on DU posted a comprehensive list of all the headlines of all the editorials - all dated September 10, 2001 - that were attacking Bush et al, in all the newspapers across the country, for his stupid and/or reckless and/or unconstitutional and/or did-I-mention-stupid policy initiatives to date. It was a long, long, long, long list.

I'll say it again: he was meat. One-termer-train-wreck-road-kill-deer-in-headlights-oh-God-thud meat meat meat on the hood ornament. Over and done, mistake erased, do-over extraordinare. We had all worked here to get the truth and wisdom out there, even in our cute and tiny state of affairs here on DU, and that Newsweek article (plus everything else) was going to be sunshine on our faces. We felt justifiably proud to have helped move the pile towards the truth.

Things had been so hard until then (we thought). It had all gotten so bad (we thought).

...and then...

I saw the first thread posted in LBN - "A plane has hit the World Trade Center" - and tried to get on CNN.com, and couldn't. Too busy. It was early, classes had just started, and I pelted upstairs to get a TV going in the library with the words from the third poster in that LBN thread - "This looks like terrorism, folks" - floating in my eyes. You can find that one in the archives, too. Bring some Pepto Bismol.

The long and short of it: on the non-computer side, I had to deal with a building full of kids who were looking to me for answers: "My mom works in the Prudential building, will she be OK?" and "Is this World War II, Mr. Pitt?" and "My dad had a meeting at the World Trade Center today, can I be excused to use the phone in the principal's office?" and "What's that sound, Mr. Pitt?" when the incredible roar vibrated the ceiling during Journalism II, and that question I could answer, because the roar was familiar from the 1999 All Star Game at Fenway Park when the fighters blasted over the ballpark and set car alarms off in my neighborhood, and so I said, "That's the sound of F-16 fighters circling the city, remember when they did the fly-by during the All Star Game, so we're OK here, everything's fine, everything's fine, fine, fine..."

On the computer side, DU and LBN were basically the only sites that were accessible. I lost my brains. Completely. Between the kids looking for me to explain what was happening, my own fears for the girlfriend working in the tall building downtown whom I couldn't reach because the phones were jammed, the raw blow of watching those buildings fold up on the fuzzy-screened TVs in the library, the casualty guestimates flying around because tens of thousands of people worked in those buildings and if they were all on time to work that day they were all dead, the wide and varied reports of additional attacks - "Car bomb on the Washington Mall!!11" - and the blunt horror of what was unfolding, I was simply unable to cope.

I pulled that day, in fact, what may stand as my first and, arguably, most formidable Full Fuckup on DU. I posted a thread stating flatly that we all had to stand behind the President during this time. Bigass bold-lettered post. It seemed the thing to do, given what was happening. I don't know about you, but politics took a back seat to thinking about rescuing survivors and going down to the hospital to give blood...and some of the hard truths about what was really going on were still out there in the fog, and all I was thinkiing was "Gotta get through this," and so there was that post.

You can dig it out of the archives if you want a good laugh. Boy, did I get my ass kicked. The only redeeming moment for me in that one was a post by an Admin - Elad, I think, or maybe Skinner - backing me up and saying yeah, this is right, we're all Americans today, let's do what we must.

Funny. Or not.

The best man that day, for your information, was Khephra, who is no longer with us. Kheph was someone who started here kind of meekly, feeling his way, but eventually became the Main Man in LBN. He was on disability and couldn't work, and so his work was to be informed and to inform.

I got a chance to step into his information nexus out in Indiana before he died; he had three televisions set to CNN, MSNBC and C-SPAN, plus his computer with half a dozen news screens open, and he was basically the guy every cubicle rat on DU thanked God for. He posted every tidbit of everything, gave minute-by-minute breakdowns of Senate debates on C-SPAN...and on 9/11, he was the guy who gave the rest of us the information we needed to keep from eating our own heads off.

What to say since then? How do you quantify before-and-after? How do you measure the depths of the disappointments and horrors that have come since then?

And, of course, what does any of this have to do with a thread titled "An apology, of sorts..."

Simply this.

I have been here for a long time. I started here exactly like just about everyone else: I staggered in the front door, found a roomful of like-minded people, and said "Oh thank God." I used this place to vent, to unwind, to get unhinged, to get informed, to inform where and when I could, to sharpen my debating skills, to void my bladder on the occasional invading Freep...but at the beginning and the end, I posted here to be with and to plan with and to commiserate with people who saw the same writing on the wall I did.

That was the whole purpose of the place from the get-go.

Somewhere in the last couple of years, I became a name. I worked very hard to make that happen, to be sure. 18 hours a day, 350,000 miles across to and from pretty much every state in the nation...hell, we all started here wanting to do something about what was happening, and I did my small part to take up that call, and in the process managed to become a writer and a speaker that others looked to. I wouldn't be doing *any* of this, probably, if it wasn't for DU. I decided to try to do something, and managed to work myself into a position where I could.

While I was here, I did a few other things. I posted a lot, and not always well. I can spin the written word sharply enough, and sometimes used that ability to throw unnecessary and ill-advised beat-downs on people I disgreed with. I got involved in the 2004-election-primaries brawls with a will - pardon the pun - and was too often rude and obnoxious and short-tempered and foolish. I made a fair number of enemies, many of whom had (and have) a legitimate beef.

The sticky part came when I forgot that I could no longer be "just another DUer" and couldn't let fly whenever I chose. You know what I mean, because if you've spent any time here, you've done this. Yes, you have. You get angry about the news, the state of things, some Democratic failure to act, and maybe you get a glass of wine into you, and you flame away on the keyboard...and then come back the next day hoping nobody remembers or gives a damn that you were throwing haymakers and acting the fool.

Once upon a time, I could do that. I did. Nowadays, though, I flip out here and it becomes a thing. I can't come here and vent and be an asshole, as is a standard DUer-in-GD-don't-deny-it-you-know-it's-true-you-ve-done-it-a-dozen-times practice. I miss being able to do that...but so much for that noise. As the Good Doctor said, buy the ticket, take the ride.

The stickier wicket, aw hell, let's be honest and call it the stickiest wicket, came when I posted the truthout story that Karl Rove had been indicted. Another thread in big block letters.

For clarity: Truthout stands by this story, today as yesterday, as described on the blog page. Period, end of file. I am not speaking for them in any official capacity, because this is a personal thread, but I can read the TO blog as clearly as you can. If you want more than that, consult an astrologist, or talk to someone besides me. Read the first sentence of this paragraph again if further clarity is required on the basic premise.

I am not going to engage in any back-and-forth about how TO handled and/or reported the story, and if you're looking for that brawl, look elsewhere. TO stands by the story, and that's where it's at, period. The truth will out when Fitz is ready to share.

I am writing this to address my own behavior on this forum when the story first came out, because my behavior deserves both an explanation and some apologies.

One thing, before I get into this, about my silence regarding this issue and my absence here over the last weeks. The Rove story is the biggest story Truthout has ever handled, and there was a lot of attention on us. A lot lot lot. I learned, from hard experience, that really basic comments here would wind up on 200 blogs in 0.000004 seconds.

The choice: a) Keep posting on DU and excruciatingly measure every word, syllable and letter to make sure I'm not saying anything that can be taken out of context, twisted, manipulated, or simply misunderstood...or b) Keep my mouth shut and not complicate an already-complicated situation.

I chose "B," which, for those of you who have spent a lot of electrons posting about how appalling it is that your questions didn't get answered, is the answer you get. I owe an apology to the DUers who have been forced to slog past all the threads along this particular line. I wish it could have been different, but that would have been irresponsible. I hope you understand.

Moving on...

I wrote this long history of my own involvement on DU because it has to do with the night I flipped out here several weeks ago. Like I've said, and as evidenced by the stories above, I've been here a while. I wish I could say that every moment I've spent here, and every post I've made, has been good and clear and solid and righteous...but I can't say that, because it isn't true. I've made plenty of messes, and more than a few enemies.

...and all of that came out in technicolor after I posted the Rove story.

Here's the thing, and you can winkle out these threads yourself: On the day I posted the story, and several times afterwards, I said it was good and fine and appropriate for people to reserve judgment. To wait for further proof. To wait for backup. I knew what I knew, and had (and continue to have) 100% confidence in the veracity of the report, but for reasons of source confidentiality etc., I could only say "Here's the story" and wait.

Over the first 48 hours after the report was posted, there were three different kinds of posts: the people who said "Wheeee, right on!", the people who were going to wait for further proof...and the people who set about making the whole thing personal.

Personal. Ugly. Awful.

I put all the stuff above about my time here into this post so I could maybe give folks a basic idea of how awful it was when the attack dogs were loosed on me. I couldn't believe it. These were not people who wanted the story to be true and were angry when confirmation didn't come. These were people who started, right out of the gate, attacking me and Leopold and truthout as liars and bullshit artists. It was immediate, and extreme, and very personal.

I have a lot of those threads and posts bookmarked, but I'm not going to hang them up here, because I do not want this thread to get tagged as a "call out." Let's just be clear about this: a lot of the people throwing that wretched stuff around disguised themseves as "just asking questions" when they got challenged for their attacks.

Bullshit. They know it was (and remains) bullshit, and so do I, and so do any discerning readers. That whole carnival was about nothing more or less than settling old scores. It was a bloodletting, plain and simple. Sadly, the best (meaning the worst) posts were deleted by the mods.

Sure, I earned this to a large degree, and admit that to my own shame...but I'll freely admit my own shock at how it all rolled out. This is what happened: A couple of days after the story was posted, I logged on again and read yet another barrage of incredibly vile attacks...

...and I lost my temper.

I lost my temper and posted a bunch of incredibly stupid crap, subsequently deleted or locked, all of which I regret putting up here.

I lost my temper. There's no way to sugar-coat it. I couldn't believe this place I had spent so much time in could turn on a dime and dole out so many hurtful, personally hurtful, deeply hurtful, statements. I flipped out. I can't take it back, erase it, smooth it over. I blew my stack and vented my spleen. Once upon a time I could do that safely...but then again, once upon a time I could log on to DU and not see 15 GD threads attacking my character, so...selah.

In my subsequent lurking, I've read a bunch of comments from people who seem to think they are owed an apology. Here we come to the nub.

First and foremost, I apologize to the community in general for doing something that generated a whole blizzard of threads which detracted from the main mission. It was, simply, stupid.

I have already apologized to Skinner, and he accepted my apology, so that's that.

Getting to some specifics: I put up a post on my flip-out night that got locked, in which I made a variety of declarations about "moles" and "cretins" and "fuckwits." Subsequent interpretations of this thread apparently augered towards the idea that I was attacking people who doubted the story, attacking people who were waiting for further confirmation.

Not true.

As I stated many times in many threads on this matter, doubt is good and sane and totally understandable, especially under those circumstances. Those of you who thought and/or think that those insults were aimed at you, because you doubted and wanted further confirmation, are the ones to whom an apology is owed.

I am sorry. I did not intend to single you out, I did not want to single you out, I was not attacking you, and those of you who doubted and wanted further confirmation were not not not the intended targets of that post. I cannot emphasize enough my full belief that no one should ever, under any circumstances, dog you out for doubting and waiting for official word on that story. Least of all me.

I accept the full responsibility for this, because clearly, I did not write my intent and meaning in a way that was clear. I apologize for any sense you may have gotten from me that doubt, waiting for confirmation, or anything else along these lines, was anything other than totally appropriate.

Now...as for the "cretins" and "fuckwits" who made this whole experience brutally personal, who inspired the thread that has been much ballyhooed, you know who you are, you know that you were the intended target of that post, and you get absolutely, positively no apologies from me in this or any other life. Hammerhead sharks could take feeding-frenzy lessons from you...which makes me wonder to what degree you need hobbies beyond this online life. Seriously.

I felt bad about that specific post for a while...and then I was angry for a while...and then I got out and did some activism, and tried to make a difference in the real world, and I felt better. I got some distance. I have not always been at my best on this board, and I have made some enemies, but no one deserves the kind of poison that got hurled my way, and that sucks...but you know what?

You know what?

I forgive you. You can't help it. For whatever myriad reasons I don't ever want to know about, you are how you are, and that's how it is...and yeah, you're going to be a drag-anchor on the movement every second you're involved, because like the hammerhead shark, you cannot resist the scent of blood, even if it is the blood of your own kind, and that sucks...but a) it is what it is, and b) we will prevail even with you trying to drag the rest of us down into the wacky behavioral sink God saw fit to drop you into, because we are collectively better than that...

...so it's cool. You're the kind of online people that give online people a bad name, and you've always been here, and you'll always be here, and bravery is cheap when there's only a keyboard and a monitor to confront, and you don't have to look someone in the eye when you write the kind of vile stuff you'd never have the guts to say face to face, and sometimes I have sadly tap-danced near the edge of whatever abyss you float in, to my shame...

...but I am not like you. Above and beyond all the other differences between you and me, there is this: The first day I signed on here, before I was anything more than an anonymous high school teacher, when I had the chance to be another anonymous screen-name and nothing more, I had to decide what to call myself here. It was 2001, and the deal had gone down, and we had a lot of work to do, and I had decided that come hell or high water, I was going to do my part.

I signed up as WilliamPitt, the name my parents gave me on my first day on the planet.

I can certainly be a bastard, an asshole, a jerk, name the perjorative and at some point I have qualified for it, but I sign my real name to everything I do, for good or ill. I have it in the back of my mind that this kind of self-generated accountability is worth something in this wild-west online hoohah. When I do good, I do so under my real name. When I blow it, I do so under my real name. The swings are pretty wide and wild, and maybe if I were another anonymous "BushSux2008" name out there, it wouldn't be so nuts.

But that doesn't feel right to me. If I attack you, if I insult you, if I make a fool of myself, my real name will be right there. My name will be there when I apologize for it. My name, my real name, will always be there. I'm never going to do this whole mess the right way all the time, or even half the time, but the least I can do is sign my name to what I do. I always have. I always will.

So enough of all that.

I hope those of you who deserve an apology will accept what I've offered. I meant it sincerely. I hope those of you who don't deserve an apology but somehow expect one can maybe someday escape whatever lonesome shabby reality you currently writhe in...and as for the rest of you, I simply hope all this made sense.

I've been here a long time, and have been here pretty much through everything this place has seen and endured...and now, I can say I know what it is like when the attention of this place becomes fixed and personal. Pretty much the full experience.

I hope it makes sense when I say I sometimes forget that I can't just pop off and take comfort from the venting. That used to be a great balm. I'm going to be flying a little bit more under the radar from this point on, not out of any hard feelings, but because beyond anything else, I've simply learned that I can't just be a DUer anymore.

I have, frankly, lost the thread on this post about seventeen times so far, so I am going to post it and see what happens. Resist the temptation to read into this too deeply...or at least, please try not to be insulted by whatever portions I failed to nail down or make clear or whatever. There is a small group I am disgusted by (as, hopefully, are you), but the majority of you deserve my apologies and my thanks. I hope I got that part right.

Jesus. I've been here a while.

I'll be lurking.

[babylonsister]

1. I'm resisting the temptation to read this at all now, because I have

to go. All I can say is, I welcome you back with open arms, Mr. Pitt. Point me in the direction of one flawless human being because I have yet to meet one.

[MercutioATC]

2. Welcome back, Will!

:hi:

(I don't know that any more needs to be said. Good to have you back)

:)

[liberal N proud]

3. You have been here a while just writing this post

Have not been here as long as you, only since before the 04 election, but your post have always received a lot of attention in the past, most of it positive.

[liberalnurse]

4. That is a nice summary....

You bring back such fine memories. O8)

I'm so glad to see that you have come Home. You are loved so much more than you realize. True friends embrace most aspects of ones characteristics, even the shortcomings....Jeepers, that's how friendships evolve and grow. I told everyone that you just needed to " process" things, climb out from behind your firewall.


Here is Will.....:hide: :hug:

[oxbow]

113. ohhh... I thought that was a chimney!

Why a smiley would be hiding in a chimney I don't know. But then again, I've always had a screwy imagination.

Oh yea, Welcome back Will! This is a wonderful story, and as someone who has only been here a year, it's great to get to know you (and by extension, the site itself) through this essay.

I have always been impressed by your authenticity. That includes everything from using your real name, to the things you posted after Andy passed away, to your conduct throughout this whole brouhaha. Who wants their friends to be perfect? I would much rather have genuine people to talk with! :)

You are a gifted wordsmith, and I hope this whole mess doesn't blunt your output in any way. Your fans here may not be as loud as your detractors, but they are many times more numerous.

[sojourner]

5. long, but given what you have to say, how could it not be?

thanks for the explication - i really was somewhat dumbfounded at what happened here during the Rove-TO thing. this helps a little toward enhancing my emerging enlightenment. (and it's not YOU that confounded me, either!)

i know your commitment to "the cause" to be 100% true-blue, and your use of your real name is actually one of the clues to that!
happy lurking, mr pitt.

[bigtree]

6. damn that was long

welcome back

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. You have nothing to apologize to me for, Will

as I read all these threads, and realized that any reporter could get timing wrong-like you, I think the indictment is a done deal. I still read your posts with interest, as I feel you have a way with words that allows one to understand your points clearly and easily. My husband still starts his day reading TruthOut.

Having said this, I understand about how mean the web can be. I wandered from forum to forum for a while, often immediately attacked because of my name (my user name is my spiritual names put together, more real to me than my birth name). DU was a breath of fresh air, even with the arguments and fights.

I'm glad you are back, even in lurking mode. Please know this poster always welcomes your thoughts and ideas, as she always has.

Love and Peace.
Ayesha Haqqiqa

[JuniperLea]

80. As one who was instrumental but not alone

In getting another board closed down... I know how cruel the internets can be:)

[senseandsensibility]

8. Good to hear from you, brother

And whenever you do hear something new on the Fitz deal, or TO is ready to go public, or whatever, remember to give us the first heads up. I'm counting on it. And I think you will, because you ARE still a DUer, and you know it.:) Thanks for the history lesson, by the way. I loved reading about the old DU. When I think of how I was still still desperately slogging through the corporate news media in those days, I could cry.

[Ang_TX_LIB]

9. That was great Will.

Welcome Back, Glad you are still here.:hi:

[Sugar Smack]

10. Hey, Will.

Welcome back.

[no name no slogan]

11. Glad you're around, Will

I'm still reserving judgment on this, too, but I hope to God the story is correct.

BTW, we need another "I make in my pants sometimes" post in the Lounge. Maybe on the Kudzu Mk II thread.

[AverageJoe]

12. Welcome home, Will

I've always respected and enjoyed your posts. :)



WELCOME BACK
John Sebastian

Welcome back, your dreams were your ticket out
Welcome back, to that same old place that you laughed about
Well the names have all changed since you hung around
But those dreams have remained and they've turned around
Who'd have thought they'd lead ya
(who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya
(back here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot cause we got him on the spot
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back

We always could spot a friend, welcome back
And I smile when I think how you must have been
And I know what a scene you were learning in
Was there something that made you come back again
And what could ever lead ya
(what could ever lead ya)
Back here where we need ya
(back here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot cause we got him on the spot
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back

And I know what a scene you were learning in
Was there something that made you come back again
And what could ever lead ya
(what could ever lead ya)
Back here where we need ya
(back here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot cause we got him on the spot
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back

Yeah we tease him a lot, welcome back, welcome back
Cause we got him on the spot, welcome back, welcome back

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we got him on the spot
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back

:)

Edit: To make clear that I'm not John Sebastian.... sheesh! :dunce:

[robbedvoter]

13. heh, heh! You missed a few shitstorms, but good account! Good times!

We'll have some more before we see the light.
Such is the nature of activism. It certainly is not a popularity contest.

[bettyellen]

14. mmm, you could be a DUer who doesn't let fuckwits push yer buttons

pause only to pity them. take a deep breath, and do what you need to do without apology.

[annabanana]

15. Shame on anyone who is harder on you

than you are.

Your posts are always honest (occasionally to a fault). Your motives are beyond reproach. Your intellect is sharp, your writing is sharper. Your temper is epic. Your self critique is relentless and I am glad you are back in the pool.

[Joe Chi Minh]

138. A terrific summation, if I may say so.

[Sydnie]

282. Yep, that will do it

As Will would say : End of file.

I agree with every word you posted. Thanks for saying it so much better than I ever could have.

[oasis]

16. You were here to welcome and encourage many newbies who were

being picked on by "elitist" DUers. That's the Will Pitt I remember.

Welcome back. :hi:

[donsu]

17. wow, I've been here forever and didn't know about the 'downstairs'

I understand what you are saying Will

keep on keeping on

[havocmom]

18. Make mistakes, make sense, make connections, make allies,

make enemies... that is to be human

Make them in the cause of protecting democracy, liberty, noble cause, freedom of speech in these beginning years of the 21st century... that is to be An American Patriot.

There are many, many American Patriots. That they are more visible now it partly due to the DU and all those early members who spoke truth to power way before it was cool

:toast:

And I recall a night, early on in my time here, when a young, promising journalist/teacher/writer was a bit spooked cuz a cop car was parked outside. The Man was watching.

We all knew and understood that particular fear and the fear of wondering if we were just paranoid or if they were really out to get us. We knew the fear gnawing on that young man in Boston. We all felt the same vague sense of not being safe in our homes anymore because we were liberals who dared to speak. We all were breathing shallow, waiting for crack downs and roundups any time.

We were with you that night, Will. And though all of us have disagreed with you a time or twelve and many have been offended, most of us are with you still.

My ol pappy once told me: Never trust a man who is liked by everyone. That's a man who is not as he appears to anyone. That's a man who never tries to be honest.

You are not that man, Will Pitt. And I like you just fine. You're OK. You're a damned fine American.

Might be kind if Skinner would consider allowing you a sock puppet screen name so you can post like the rest of us and vent when you have to without it becoming some crusade. We all need a place to let it fly. We all have the bastard streak in us. It is what makes us great. We are the rabble that rocks the world and we need our playtime to keep us healthy.

To DU and all the great people who knock heads here :toast:

To DU's absent friends, may their souls watch over us and keep us honest :toast:

[Joe Chi Minh]

139. Hilariously insightful, motheroallhavoc!

[arwalden]

19. "I've simply learned that I can't just be a DUer anymore."

Well, okay. Goodbye for now.

[Philosoraptor]

76. I, me, me, me, I, I, me, I, I, I, me, me, me, I, I,

"Somewhere in the last couple of years, I became a name."

[Jigarotta]

92. Phil! how could you!...

forget the ...911.... me... I.... 911.

[Turn CO Blue]

272. I just knew I'd find you here... n/t

[Jigarotta]

336. I choose the small battles

against what certainly smells like 3 week old bullshit.

erm, actually 3 week old bullshit doesn't really smell much, it's just manure. Good for the garden.

[Snivi Yllom]

120. the Cliff Notes version please

I ME I ME I ME

[Name removed]

286. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Wielding Truth]

20. Will, thank you for being here anytime anyway. When you write

I feel like some one out there has a true compass. That is all I really need from you. Not a creed or scientifically proven theory.Just someone who can write and help me see through the fog of this weird and twisted political madness.

You know there are so many who are trying to reach for truth and common sense and when it gets close it is ripped from us and we are presented with another altered Rove truth.

Will, I can't express myself like you can, but I can feel the media blinders being placed and replaced over our world. You bring me the glimpses that keeps me from getting so far out there without a touch line.
I remember the risks you have taken and I know the need you have, to stand up.I have that too but am not able to convey it like you.

I know you will continue to be who you are. I just wish you also have need to share yourself with us. As Strong and True as you see it.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. Glad you're back, Will.

Nicely done.

:toast:

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

22. It was important for you to post that. All of it. Thank you.

It is important for people to read it. All of it. K&R.

[Robb]

23. Screw you, Pitt!!!

:D Kidding, kidding. Nicely wrote. I remember when. :hi:

[Avalux]

24. I'd like to know your motivation for posting this.

I won't be snarky, but you do seem to have a need for attention, which is fully understandable given your career choice. You could have just said "sorry", or not anything at all.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Heh

Perfect.

My motivation: a simple sorry/explanation didn't seem like enough. I also like to write.

Funny, though. It's just one thread. Exactly one (1).

Somehow, posting exactly one thread qualifies as "needing attention."

Do all the other fifty thousand threads on DU represent people "needing attention" as well, by your standards?

Do you, perhaps, need attention, and seek said attention by posting such an odd question?

[Avalux]

63. Good enough.

I'm not an attention seeker, just thought I'd ask you a question. Consider yourself a target of my general mood today, lol. :hi:

[BlooInBloo]

53. Best sentence EVER: "I won't be snarky, but [snark][snark][snark]"

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

72. And you would know from snarky...

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

73. Of course - surely you'd admit I'm extremely well-qualified...

... to judge of things snarkilicious...

[JuniperLea]

74. Oh, yeah!

I think we've snarked each other enough to be called snarkologists by now!

;)

[Joe Chi Minh]

140. What would be the point of that.! He satirised his enemies

hilariously. What a kill-joy, you are! Shouldn't you be posting to one of the forums of the other, more "sombre" side, shall wwe say?

[stepnw1f]

25. Very Happy to See That You are Back, Will (nt)

[GOPisEvil]

26. Kee-rist, you're long-winded....

Who's made more DU comebacks, you or trumad? ;)

[donsu]

28. lol

[WilliamPitt]

30. trumad

with Walt Starr a close second.

:)

[catabryna]

36. I, for one, appreciate the history...

thank you from a newbie who has always enjoyed your posts and now more fully understand the backdrop.

Carole

[GOPisEvil]

38. I'm just giving Will a hard time.

He and I go quite a way back, and I recall a lot of the history he cites. :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

40. Hell, I drooled on your couch

Payback hasn't nearly been completed.

:P

[GOPisEvil]

46. I still can't bring myself to part with that couch...

Next book tour, it's all yours...unless you have a publisher that springs for a real tour...

[catabryna]

122. Hi there stranger...

who made a newbie feel welcome! Go Steelers!

Actually, since you know my kid, you know it's nearly impossible to keep anything straight. I didn't mean to post under you but, hell, it happens!

Yes, we've made it to the mountains. Still missing Austin-proper, but not the heat!

:hi: backatcha!

Edited to add: Speaking of drool!

[GOPisEvil]

132. I thought that was you, but couldn't recall!

Glad you made it to the mountains. Good to see you again. :hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

142. You just don't appreciate good craic!

[ananda]

27. interesting history of DU

WP,

That was so interesting reading all that went down on DU before I got here. I guess the operative words for me are: I didn't know -that.-

I guess all the kefaffle is history too... now.

I've always enjoyed your meaty, passionate, writer type posts... keep em coming.

Sue

[Laurab]

31. Welcome back Mr. Pitt !!

I don't think you're the only one who had to step away from DU temporarily, and indeed, it WAS ugly. My "ignore" button was activated for the first time since 2004, and it has been my friend.

I don't agree that you can't post as "just another DU'er", although maybe you have to be a little more careful about what you post sometimes, since sharks do seem to be waiting.

That post was LONG, but damn that boy can write!

At any rate, it's good to see you back. I just don't think you should let that very vocal minority achieve their goal. You add too much to DU to let that happen.

[New Earth]

32. i didn't pay much attention to all the fighting

of recently but i really enjoyed reading all of that and am glad you came back....even if not to post as often. :hi: :hug:

[Pithy Cherub]

33. Post, don't lurk. You are human first

and a "name" like 3rd, fourth or fifty-first depending on any day ending in y. Your voice is heard because it is used - that would be a bigger loss if you were silenced because of a few rabble rousers rather than the appreciation of the many.

:toast:

[ploppy]

34. Oh Will

I have loved reading your posts since I found you on Smirking Chimp a long time ago. Thank you for this one - it was an amazing reminder of why we so desperately needed DU in the first place. I really hate to see you lurk and not post. And where is Crewleader anyway??

[yewberry]

47. psst

Check the baby boomer group if you're looking for an old friend!

[DemReadingDU]

35. a mini-novel! Love your writing...

I should have begun reading DU years ago!!

[snot]

37. Your contributions have been invaluable --

both here at DU and elsewhere. Thank you, and I hope you keep up the great work.

[supernova]

39. Welcome back, Will

I knew you'd turn up eventually. :pals:

While I am in the "wait and see" camp, I knew that you had your heart in it and was sad to see you and TO get trammeled so without anyone having any more knowledge than we did at the time. Or do now, for that matter.

Good to see you again.

[johnaries]

41. Thank you for fighting the good fight.

I've only been here since the '04 "election". But whenever I see a WilliamPitt post it's always the first I click on. You are in the trenches. You are speaking truth to power. You are only human, but you are a human worthy of great respect.

[KittyWampus]

42. Big Fish, Small Pond. Nevermind The Pondscum.

[cyberpj]

43. When the ego surrenders to the spirit... some call it a miracle...

"...but you know what?
You know what?
I forgive you."


The big J-man himself may have said it first,
and many great peacemakers have said it since,
but nothing sounds LOVE-lier
ever.

xox

[ldf]

44. will!

:grouphug:

i will gladly accept what you offer, on your terms.

you are one of du's strongest attractions... we are better as a whole, for your presence and participation.

ldf

[warrior1]

45. I stand by you William.

Peace.

[mcscajun]

48. Honest. Open. Pithy.

Glad to see you back.

It takes a big man to do as you have. Many others wouldn't.

That's all. :)

[donsu]

49. were any women invited downstairs? or invites just by poster names?

it's surprising to find a secret forum at DU

[WilliamPitt]

50. Lots of women

It hasn't existed for almost five years now.

[Armstead]

106. Shucks I was never invited downstairs....and never even knew I missed it.

[bridgit]

51. hm...well, my name is: Donna Star Morehouse...

what is the issue now :shrug: :hi: and yeah! my middle name is 'Star', you got some problem with that, pal x( so don't start with me buddy

sorry you had to 'sail the seas of cheese'...
that blows ~

[suffragette]

52. Good use of "winkle," Will.

It's one of those words that I always enjoy encountering.
It's great to see you back here and always a pleasure to read your prose.

[bridgit]

59. heehee, you said, "winkle will"...

:-)

[suffragette]

69. tee hee, that I did

:D

[chefgirl]

54. Yawn

I've been here even longer than you Mr.Pitt, so I've seen and read it all... and I do mean ALL.
As a matter of fact, I do believe I was one of the first people you pissed off around here, long long ago.

What is this now? Round 36, 37 ??

Learn to stop treating people the way you do, and all this long-winded apologizing wouldn't be necessary.

Welcome back again. (as if anyone ever thought you were really going to go anywhere)

-chef-

[Ladyhawk]

81. Word.

"Learn to stop treating people the way you do, and all this long-winded apologizing wouldn't be necessary."

How many long-winded apologies is this, now? I'm aggravated because if anyone else treated people the way Pitt does, they would have been laughed off DU many apologies ago. I'm sick of "cult of personality" crap like this, but I guess it's human nature. There will always be new people for him to alienate.

[JuniperLea]

89. Grudges are cumbersome and unattractive...

They make you old and ugly before your time...

I'm just saying.

[Mr_Spock]

235. Agreed.

Interesting politics being exposed for all to be aware of anyway.

[Philosoraptor]

100. So, you won't be recommending this thread for the greatest page?

Oh, I see it has enough recs already. It took me over an hour just to read it.

[Seabiscuit]

435. With 90 recs as of this post, Pitt's groupies are still alive and kicking.

They know that the good part of Pitt's long-winded half-assed apology is meant for them.

Now he's back, our lovely vacation from all the strife is sadly over.

[crispini]

55. Peace, and you've obviously learned something.

Good job. Good man. :thumbsup:

And you're right ... you can't be "just" a DU'er anymore... you are one of the most high-profile posters we've got, and sort of a public figure, for better or for worse. Nevertheless, I hope that doesn't stop you from continuing to stick your toe in the pool from time to time. :hug:

[BlooInBloo]

56. I'd be ok with the whole can't-give-sources-yet thing, except for...

... the "24 business hours" thing...

I really feel like truthout treated me like they think I'm so stupid that they could just make up the stupidest cover-their-ass-explanation-the-world-has-ever-seen and I would fall for it.

Maybe that's not what truthout *intended*, but the fact is, that's what it *feels* like.

"They're telling me I don't know what "24 hours" fucking means. Christ they think I'm stupid." - that's the feeling I had as a result of truthout's actions. And I haven't seen anything that addresses this *feeling*. They've tried to defend the *fact* of the phrase - with better or worse success, depending on your perspective. But they haven't said anything to address the *feeling* that was conveyed.

If it weren't for that, I wouldn't say a word beyond "Dunno - let's wait & see".

Hopefully that makes sense.


EDIT: Thanks for the note - though I didn't comment directly on it, it's still appreciated.

[hfojvt]

364. there seemed to be a hole there

between people who made vicious personal attacks on TO, Pitt, Leopold, etc., and those, who, like good DUers evaluated the logic of the story as written. As an analogy, if the story was about economic policy or some other area where I feel I have some knowledge and experience, I would examine the story and perhaps poke holes in it or fisk it. Then if I was set upon by defenders of the story, I might ruthlessly fisk what they said. None of which is a personal attack, although it can seem that when when a cherished argument or belief is beaten to submission and is sobbing on the floor crying for its momma or papa. Sometimes too, ruthless arguments can slide into mockery or sarcasm even with the best of intentions, especially if the other side draws first blood.

[BlooInBloo]

370. Yup.

[FlaGranny]

401. You must realize that

as soon as Will makes ANY post at all, one of the people he is referring to will post a snarky remark for absolutely no reason that I can see, except perhaps rampant jealousy and intent to be hurtful. Some folks here have it in for him. In all the 5-1/2 years he's been on the board I've been here also, and I have absolutely NEVER seen Will strike the first blow in the battle of the nasties. He sure has a temper, though, and when it is set off it is an awesome display.

[Pachamama]

57. Namaste....

:hug:

[johnnie]

58. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what was going on

And to me there is no mistaking your passion for self-importance. I don't know you personally Will, but I can tell by reading what you write that you are passionate about your beliefs and some people don't understand passion. Luckily it was a very small number of people that don't "get it".

[ourbluenation]

60. jesusmaryandholysaintjoseph will - just say "im sorry" and get back

to work, wordsmith. how many cafe americanos did that take???!!!!


good job, lets move on....

[pitohui]

346. cafe americanos?

is that what is was? i was thinking, cocaine, it's a hell of a drug :-)

[OneGrassRoot]

61. Bravo to you, Will..........

As someone who posts rarely yet has been reading nearly daily for a while now, I greatly appreciate the history you've shared. I'm another one who has always thoroughly enjoyed your writing, and look forward to more. Please don't simply lurk....like me....lol.

[DemonFighterLives]

62. I was fence sitting through this affair

When Rover is taken down, I will be happy. I took your posts and the oppositions posts in stride. Nothing to get mean about on either side.

Posters come and posters go and everyone has a bad day. I should say several bad days since dubco came to town.

I may be wrong, but I have no one here on ignore and I sometimes avoid telling some off. Alert is your friend. :rofl:

Welcome back to the fray and I hope the "others" are reasonable.
:dem:

[uppityperson]

64. thanks for the explanation, apology, writing

we are all human, all blow it occasionally. You, however, are stuck with fame which adds an extra bit of attackingment. Keep lurking, and posting.

[earth mom]

65. You & I haven't seen eye to eye on everything & yeah, you've ticked me off

many times. Oh well. :shrug: But that being said, I gotta give you props for your passion and your writing abilities and acknowledge that you've been mighty brave posting under your real name. Most of us have our reasons for posting anonymously. Me, I have a kid to worry about.

None of us is perfect, and I admit that my Irish temper often flavors what I post around here, but most of the time I try to direct my temper at the bastards in office and elsewhere who are ruining and destroying this country and it's people as well as the ideals this country was founded upon. :grr:

I was one of those who gave you and Truthout the benefit of the doubt because while not only do I think Rove being indicted is more than likely true, I also know what ruthless and devious liars Bush & Rove & the rest of the thugs can be. The fact that most of the attacks on you were personal, is just stupid because the bottom line is that we're all in this together aren't we? Don't we all want to see these bastards rot in prison and know for certain they will fry in Hell?! Jeez! You would think everyone would be jumping up and down for joy at the news and give the story all the support it was due, instead of waiting for the story to be officially vetted by the corrupt corporate media whores and the liars in office. :eyes:

The way things have gone the past 5+ years, Hell will probably freeze over first. :sarcasm:

[Balbus]

66. How many more days is left in the 24 business hours?

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

86. The snarkapaloosa is over, dude

Pick up your sleeping bag, and never again eat the brown acid.

[havocmom]

160. look at it this way,,,

we get to add to our ignore lists from this thread ;)

[Laurab]

187. lol I was thinking the same thing but refrained from typing it

still, I'm glad someone did.....it's kinda easy cause they seem to travel in teams, and ignore is so much better than feeding them by responding.

[havocmom]

190. Happy to oblige.

My bro always said I missed a couple days of charm school and never found that bush others can beat around. (These days, I ask him to refrain from using the b-word)

[JuniperLea]

389. Indeed!

Such a tidy little package it is too!


:hi:

[Balbus]

360. Until he apologizes...

for putting out a sensationalized story without verifying facts or following up on less-than-reputable sources, it is not over.

[JuniperLea]

390. Two way street...

Are you going to apologize to him if/when it turns out that the TO story was correct?

I've asked that question many times and I've yet to find a person who would. Telling, really.

[Mr_Spock]

236. Wow

...just wow :(

[motocicleta]

290. If you were to write that sentence correctly in English,

you would ask, "How many more days are left in the 24 business hours?" Which would make you seem a lot more intelligent, or at least more sober, albeit no wiser. I think even a small child could answer that question, "There are no hours left in the 24." So why would you ask it?

[Kostafarian]

351. And why would you ask why?

Why would I ask why you would ask him why he asked?

[Balbus]

359. But if nobody made any grammar errors...

You'd have no reason to participate in a thread. So you should be thanking me...

You're welcome.

[fishnfla]

67. Hey I'm sorry too

for the suckerpunchlowblowcheapshotdogpile comment I posted.

Hammerhead sharks *snarf* They finally caught ol' Hitler, the 1400+ lb H-head shark that hung out at Boca Grande and was the scourge of Tarpon fisherman. Here these guys would hook up with a fish of a lifetime, a huge 100+lb Tarpon, spend 2 0r 3 hours trying to land it, get it up to the boat only to have this huge monster bigger than their boat come and chomp the silver king in half while it was all tired out.

There is a lesson there, somewhere

[kimpossible]

68. It wouldn't be DU without you, Will

When I'm skimming through the "Latest" page, yours is one of the few names that will always make me stop and click through to read the whole post.

And I really enjoyed the DU history lesson. I didn't discover this place until sometime in 2003, and have spent a lot of time since wishing that I'd found it sooner. Would have spared me a lot of confusion and loneliness in those days. Thanks for giving us a taste of what it was like.

:donut:

[shadowknows69]

101. Perhaps they should rename the site

The Undrground Pitt, or something like that.

[Mr_Spock]

237. You mispelled "Underground"

:eyes:

[shadowknows69]

254. Ok spelling Nazis so I didn't run a spell check

sue me. We can't all be Mr. Spock.

[Mr_Spock]

259. Snark + snark = snark squared?

Mr Spock is good at math :D

[Jazz2006]

275. Don't sweat it...

The OP made at least 10 spelling errors in his long winded, self-serving piece of tripe.

[Mr_Spock]

291. "long winded, self-serving piece of tripe"

Charming.

[Jazz2006]

295. "Charming"

Perhaps not.

Accurate? Yes.

I'm not trying to "charm" anyone, unlike the OP.

And I've never been enamored of sycophantic hero worship.

It's bad enough seeing it on display ad nauseum by right wingers, who can't seem to help themselves.

It's far worse to see it displayed here on the left.

(And, btw, why is it that you felt it necessary to point out shadow's spelling error, yet you haven't pointed out the numerous spelling errors in the opening post, or the myriad of spelling errors of other posters on this very thread? Just curious. I make it a point not to point out spelling errors or typos because we all make them, but when you deliberately call someone on what was obviously a typo, as you did above, then it does beg the question about your selectivity in drawing attention to same.)

[Mr_Spock]

330. "I'm not trying to "charm" anyone"

True enough.

I'm sickened by the hero worship myself - you won't see that coming from me. But I do recognize an asset when I see one. Like it or not, Will is a big asset to DU - at least IMHO. I will assume that you disagree?


As far as spelling goes - well, when the sarcasm is that thick, I just think it ought to be spelled correctly - you know what I mean?

[Name removed]

373. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

391. 1) alert 2) my intent was obvious

1) I have to alert on that personal attack - even if it wasn't against me - I hope you understand...

2) My intent was obvious when I used the words "when the sarcasm is that thick". I make spelling and grammatical errors all the time.

[mortlefaucheur]

310. Is That allowed? n/t

[Jazz2006]

315. Is what allowed?

I can't tell from your question what you're actually asking.

[johnnie]

355. And you wasted your time reading it?

LOL. I have an idea, get a life.

[Jazz2006]

366. And you wasted your time responding?

I could respond pointing out how pathetic, lame and silly your response was ... or I could just say, in keeping with your pathetic, lame and silly post,

"I have an idea. Get a life"

Oh, there's an idea.

[motocicleta]

292. The whole idea of comparing people who can spell correctly

to Nazis seems tremendously misplaced. I can spell, you cannot; does that make me someone who would like to kill millions of people? If you really want to be taken seriously, you not only should learn to spell, but you should also grow a faculty of judgement, so you can determine when to pull out the big guns.
Cheerio!

[shadowknows69]

358. I know how to spell UNDERGROUND

I even realize it's on the top of the page. I left out a letter. Also not a perfect typist.

[Cameron27]

380. Quick, quick

There's a thread posted RIGHT NOW in GD labeled "Health nazis." Better post your complaint. Really. I can tell how upset you are by this kind of thing. I'm just sayin...

[hiley]

416. ever heard of the Soup Nazi?

:eyes:

[bleever]

70. I really enjoyed reading this, Will.

The DU history, the personal history, and your take on the way people have reacted to the Truthout Rove story and you personally.

I think I even like you more now than I did before. But then, you have never been rude to me, at least not so far.


:hide:


:hug:

[bleever]

77. P.S.:

Is there a website or something where people can get offical Pitt-bots gear? You know, t-shirts, hats, decoder rings?

:rofl:

And I'm sorry you probably didn't see my post about angry mobs with torches and pittforks.


:)

[memory]

71. Bless you Will, I am so glad you're here!

I respect and admire you very much. Thank you for sharing your talent with words with us and PLEASE continue to do so!:pals:

[mdmc]

75. I bet Mopaul's return OP will be shorter

peace and low stress bra. Take care, give care. :D

[Jigarotta]

349. hell, even JC's Second Coming would be. nt

[alfredo]

78. Kick & recommend Plus an ice pack for your aching hands

[JuniperLea]

79. Thanks for the memories

And thanks for proving yourself to be the stand-up guy I always thought you were.

This post took guts... and more than a little faith.

I'm in the "the rest of you" group... thankfully I never saw the threads that started the snarkapoloosa. I'm glad I saw this thread though. Let the healing begin.

The one thing I'll say on the Rove story subject is that many here think BushCo's actions or reactions can be dictated by history and law. And they think the alphabet news services who lie to us on a daily basis are the only source that can confirm the TO story. Oh, brother. BushCo do not adhere to, nor do they recognize any law. And CNN still lies.

I think you are due an apology from many. I doubt they will ever be as stand-up as you just were, so there'll be no holding of breath here.

Welcome home... hope you stick around. I appreciate your perspective... and perspective is absolutely everything.

Peace

Juniper Lea Woodruff

If it's good enough for you, I'm in.

[1monster]

82. Wow! Six thousand, one hundred fifty-seven word and ten pages

with 10 point Verdana font and one half inch margins all around!

You have the start of a new book, Will. Your personal history has brought back a lot of memories for me, including how long I wavered about becoming a member of DU rather than just lurking (started reading DU about April 2001, but didn't actually log on with a password until 2002). And of other message boards and friends lost due to the invective brought about by nasty, no-holds-barred politics.

If I may make the suggestion, go back, edit your apology of sorts to use as an introduction, then interview as many people as you can for a book about DU...

DU has been a launching ground for new careers for several people (including you) that we know of...how many that we don't? Several prominent members have moved on to the next astral plane, but not before inspiring countless others. So many of us came here finding an island refuge of similiarly-minded (if not like-minded) people when friendships were being decimated and one learned to keep one's mouth SHUT because one's job was being threatened when one expressed doubts about Bush and the direction he was taking us.

I'll even give you a working title Days and Nights with the Underground

I'd buy it. Bet loads of other DUers would too.

(on edit: left out a clarifying word)

[JuniperLea]

91. You forgot...

bound in leather with gilded edges;)

[1monster]

97. But, but... my budget doesn't stretch to fit leather-bound-gilt-edged

page books! :(

I'm a substitute teacher. Circus elephants get paid better than I do!

[JuniperLea]

98. That's always been a pet peeve

Police and teachers need more pay! You, of all people, deserve gold around your edges.

Thank you for caring enough about our kids to put up with that.

[1monster]

107. I love my job. But I decided NOT to become a regular contract

classroom teacher because of the way schools are run and the increasing interference of state and federal government into curriculum. That is a whole other thread (or two), but our children's educational opportunities are being destroyed by idiots who probably could not pass the tests they require of eighth graders. :grr:

[Rowdyboy]

83. I missed your meltdown, but wouldn't have been surprised. You catch hell

around here sometimes and a person can only take so much. You're an excellent writer and I read all your peices. Please, keep 'em coming.

You're one of DU's biggest assets, IMHO.

[catmandu57]

84. Well met Mr. Pitt

You've worked hard at making yourself a name, and done a damn good job at it, why else would I open a gibberish thread in the lounge if it hadn't been posted by will pitt.

I'm a few months behind you, coming to the party after 11 sept., I remember feeling outrage that day, outrage that such incompetent morons could have allowed the attack on us.

I've witnessed the DU wars as well, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger, DU has grown strong with each passing day Skinner, EarlG, and Elad become more formidable foes of this regime.

You, Will, you have helped shape the Democratic Underground into a name that strikes fear into the black heart of the neocon and the rnc, so lurk for a while, but the real fight starts soon and we'll need you for the big push.

We'll meet again though all the hosts of Mordor stand between us.

[Kostafarian]

348. lol

[Amonester]

85. From Canada: We Love You WilliamPitt. Thank You For Never

Giving Up, For Keeping Up The Fight, Peacefully, And For Writing Everywhere You Can With The Honest Goal Of Restoring True Democracy In The United States In Mind, For Our Families and Good Friends In Your Country, And For The World.

You Guys Have Our Back. :hi: :patriot:

(We need to fight that scary neocon Harper before he causes too much damage to our democracy here also, or the only alternative we'll have could be to vote for an independent Quebec at the next referendum.)

[RandomKoolzip]

87. Self-delete

[Minnesota_Lib]

88. Been lurking and occasionally posting for quite some time....

..and I must admit that your posts were among those that first hooked me on DU. Rock on, WP. :toast:

[WillyT]

90. Great Post, Great History... Great Ta Have Ya Back, Mr. Pitt !!!

And... don't let the fuckwits get ya down!

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[Snivi Yllom]

93. Was all that necessary?

I could care less about the fact someone lost their temper and insulted other anonymous posters in a political chat room. What really pissed off readers was the continues indifference and insistance that a story was right, when it was clearly wrong. Treat your readers like they are intelligent and they come back for more. Treat them like they are 3 year olds, by insulting their intelligence, and your actions shall dictate the outcome.

All some are looking for is an admission that the story was wrong. Journalists, newspapers, news programs, editors, authors and bloggers issue corrections all of the time. It's professional, it's the right thing to do, and it's not a lot to ask for in return for reading the material.


Instead we get a sermon from The Church of Me.

[JuniperLea]

99. Yep, clear as mud... yawn n/t

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

158. Sir, you are fast becoming one of my new idols around here.

Nicely crafted smack-downs. I gots ta get me to Scotland some day and hear the banter you grew on.

[Joe Chi Minh]

165. I'm not so sure about the smell of napalm first thing in the morning,

HavocMomma, but inhaling flattery at 4 minutes to 1 in the morning, isn't a taste that took me more than a nanosecond to acquire. I'll be leaning back again in my chair, savoring it with a beatific smile on my mush, after this gets posted?

I thought your post was awesome, actually, but this is beginning to sound like a mutual admiration society, so I won't expand on it.

[Laurab]

191. I've just got to say:

"Snivelwits"!!!!!!!

:rofl:

that was great!!!!!!!

[Catrina]

164. You were forced to read it? FYI, you never, ever have to read or post

in any thread that might be upsetting to you ~ it's simple really, just avoid them.

As for what 'some are looking for', I think most of us figured out what 'some' are looking for quite a while ago!

[Mr_Spock]

240. Was all that necessary?

:shrug:

[Turn CO Blue]

267. You already said that in shorter order upthread.

:hide:

[SmokingJacket]

94. I'm glad you're back.

Thank you, THANK YOU, for not throwing DU out with the bath water.

:toast:

[conflictgirl]

95. Thanks for posting the DU history, it was interesting

I've only been here since before the election of '04 and am a slow poster, as evidenced by the post count (though now I'm trying harder to bring it up) so I don't expect my post to matter much here.

I just don't care about the "cult of personality" issues (anyone else thinking of Living Colour?). I've been involved with online sites, especially ones that have hidden, invitation-only forums, for many years - since '95, actually. It's inevitable that some people will piss others off, even on a regular basis, some people will earn near-celebrity status and be practically worshipped by some, some people will be trolls just for the fun of it, etc. It's just the way online forums work. I've seen so many instances over the years of people posting something all pissy, storming off, then eventually returning with an apology. Hell, I've done it myself at other forums.

*shrug* It's just the internet. It matters, but it's not everything.

And I don't know if you'll take this as a relief or an insult, but to some of us, you're still just a DU'er, no more or less important than any others.

[Jazz2006]

347. Yes.... the cult of personality issues

I fully expect that your post will go unheralded by the OP groupies, and surely my opinion will mean even less among the "pitt faithful" since I've only been here for a couple of months, but your post strikes me as well considered and well written.

He (the self proclaimed "magic man") is "just another DUer, no more or less important than any others", but he seems to have a hard time wrapping his mind around that.

Thus, the 14 page long self-serving diatribe. Sheesh.

And you're right, the same crap happens all over the internet. When freepers engage in this kind of behavior, progressives and DUers rightly dump on them loudly and proudly, as it should be. But when it happens here.... a whole bunch of sycophants step up to the plate to act as freeper stand ins.

Sad, that.

[Ferretherder]

96. Speaking as someone who has NEVER made a mistake,...

...I feel genuine distress when reading a story such as yours, my dear Mr. Pitt. I mean, how would YOU feel if you were constantly reminded that there is an emotion that you have never, and most likely NEVER WILL feel in your lifetime - this thing called regret! My God, man, what am I to make of the fact that, simply because I am infallible, I can never be emotionally complete! The horror!

Ah,....I couldn't resist. Sorry.

Great to have such an informed and eloquent writer back from his self-imposed exile. We need you here, sir.

Welcome home.

(On edit: And that's speaking as someone who has been here just about the same amount of time you have, though the post count doesn't reflect it.)

[ninkasi]

102. Will, I found DU through a link of Buzzflash

I believe it was one of your essays. I've felt at home here ever since. I've seen our family squabbles, and seen us reconcile, or lose a member for a variety of reasons. Just like any other family, we try to get along with a wide variety of egos, personalities, and needs. I'll be 63 this coming Monday, so I've been able to view a fair amount of disagreements without getting upset. I raised teenagers, and lived to tell about it.

What gives us strength is that, in the end, regardless of how we get there, we want to arrive at a time and place where we can undo the most egregious Constitutional violations committed by the current regime. We want to end the war, and to return to some sort of sanity. We need your voice, and others, to keep us from losing faith, or hope. My own overwhelming feeling after Bush took office in 2001 was to seek out others, to try to find a place where I could unload my disappointments, give cheer to others, and not let the truth be completely drowned in a sea of gloating neocons.

If DU were an opera, I'd be a spear-carrier, one of the background. I could not take a lead role, because there are so many more qualified than I. Remember,though, the opera is more effective with the chorus. I'm happy I can do that. Thank you, Will, for your post.

[shadowknows69]

103. I liked the analogy of hammerhead sharks

Reporters sometimes smell "the blood in the water" and occasionally hasty Journalism can result. Flame away.

[DancingBear]

104. And the apology for the TO article is where again??

Nowhere.

Many of us, including me, attack Leopold and the TO article for being false a hundred ways from Sunday.

Did I find ONE word in your post that said WE APOLOGIZE for the May 12th date?? Here's a good start: "It apears the May 12th date may have been in error, or our sources may have been incorrect." Or, "After further investigation we found that Patrick Fitzgerald was NOT at Patton-Boggs office that Friday, like we were led to believe." Instead, I get "trust us" and "thanks for standing by us" crap that is supposed to pass as "updates." Not good enough.

The buck stops THERE, Will, not with any synopsis of your DU history, not with any autobiography nor any shots at the keyboard warriors who hit below where you think your belt is. They live on all boards, and the list of people who they torment goes way beyond you, and goes to a degree that I hope you never experience. As for me, I am not a big fan of ego, and I rarely fawn, so don't expect any hosannas. Don't expect personal attacks, either, but also realize that apologies work once, maybe twice - after that the emperor does indeed lose his clothes.

Give me answers, you get my respect and my admiration.. Give me pablum about a story that sits two steps away from BatBoy written by a reporter who resume should be set on fire and you get neither.

That's about it.

[BlooInBloo]

111. Um, why would they apologize for it when they're STANDING BY it?

Easy, tiger - I sympathize with your distaste for claims being made without a shred of publically verifiable evidence, but if they're standing by it, there's not much else to do...

If you followed any of the flamefests, you'll know that I'm in no way, shape or form one of the credulous-i-don't-need-no-stinkin-evidence DUers. I'm just suggesting that a bit of logical consistency would be appropriate from our side, the pro-evidence side.

If they're standing by their story, it ain't right to ask them to apologize for it.

[Jigarotta]

115. sounds too much like: 'can't comment on an ongoing investigation'

for my taste.
but I'm strange that way, a bit sick and tired of hearing That ole line and maybe unrealistically expecting a bit more.

[ScreamingMeemie]

410. So it is safe to say you agreed with Dan Rather stepping down?

You agree that he deserved to lose his job and quite possibly should have apologized onscreen to the American public. That's what "this" sounds too much like to me.

[DancingBear]

133. I get you

I was asking for some meat on the bones, if you will.

As if, "we aren't apologizing and here's why" <insert definitive reasoning here> but that didn't happen.

I'm still staring right into "we may be just ahead of the news cycle", and that just doesn't cut it.

For me, anyway.

I just can't seem to catch up with the goalposts.

[BlooInBloo]

135. It is maddening.... all good... :)

[arwalden]

129. Don't Hold Your Breath Waiting...

... the substance you were hoping for was definitely not there, and appears to NOT be forthcoming anytime soon.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DancingBear]

149. Ths post must mean something

but I'll be damned if I know what.

Down to seeds and stems again??? :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

152. Still writhing, they are, Willum! Fit to bust!

[Taxloss]

163. You're friendly-licking the biggest ego in the business, kiddo.

So be careful who you call on that. 'Least ma pardner there didn't take 6000 words to say he ain't saying shit.

(See? I can do folksy Americanisms as well!)

[DancingBear]

168. And yours I actually understand

Which is a plus. :)

[tavalon]

305. Reading comprehension

doesn't appear to be your strong suit. Why don't you go back and read what Will Pitt was apologizing for?

[MuseRider]

105. I can't believe I just sat here

and wondered if I should post! The thought of being labeled as part of the "cult" is almost as bad as being labeled as a hammerhead!

Will, you are human. Things go wrong, things go well :shrug: it is part of our fucking existence. We are all too keyed up, rightfully so, but we should not be so keyed up that we lose track of our generosity.

With shock I saw what was happening here. It is understandable to a point but it passed that point early on IMO.

I guess I just wanted to say that you have always been generous to me (except once on the night of the last congressional elections and the damed servers were too slow for me to respond or I might have had to apologize to you! See, I can't forget either, lol) but life did go on. You did become a name but still under that name you are part of us. It was reading you that eventually brought me here to DU.

Still I don't know why I am posting except maybe just to let you know it is OK, at least with me. That really makes little difference but still as a quieter part of the community I felt the need to let you know.

[Armstead]

108. Maybe you should get yourself a DU alter ego

I think you should get yourself a second screen name so you can enjoy the fun that the rest of us anonymous DUers have of being free to be complete assholes without ruining your good name.

That way you can have your own Mr. Hyde that can vent, spout wild theories and generally have the freedom to indulge your Id without having to worry about your ego, just like the rest of us.

You could still post as Will Pitt, but reserve that for whan you want to be Will Pittish.

Just a humble suggestion from one who uses the least-used part of his real name as a screen name. :)


P.S. I've been massively apathetic about the whole Rove/Truthout thing, so I missed most of those flaming threds. I guess I'm just as well o npot having gotten caught up in it all.

[shadowknows69]

109. Ok, I'm feeling surly today so I'll say it

an asshole by any other name still smells of shit. I actually don't think Mr. Pitt is an asshole. Hasn't ever been to me anyway. I just can't resist a chance for a Shakesperian pun.

[shadowknows69]

114. Actually after a bit of thought I think I agree with Armstead

I have personal experience on this. I was once fairly well known in my area. Small fish, small pond but I was in radio with a significant listenership for the area. Anyway, later after I got the old corporate boot from that I started my own mini-production company/ad agency. Long and short of it I used to lock horns on a local webboard with several of my contemporaries and eventually my identity was revealed. A few people took it upon themselves to then smear my name and my family's on that board and in public at any opportunity. They were indeed successful in some respects in hindering the growth of my business. The point I guess is that fame, no matter how large or small your fifteen minutes are, can be a burden as well. In that I completely sympathize with you Will.

[Balbus]

361. Yes, I suggest Bat-boy.

Since TO's credibility is now down around that of World News Daily, I think it's appropriate.

[Thtwudbeme]

110. Good God, Pitt. How many "I's" are in this essay?

.

[Mr_Spock]

249. 225

This is the number of personal "I" pronouns in this 6151 word very personal post.

Is this considered excessive?

[leftofthedial]

112. "it becomes *a thing*."

Will, I never stopped believing you could come here and be an asshole anytime you wanted. ;-)

I can't believe how fast and hard people here can turn on a fellow DUer. I've never been as high profile as you, but I've been savaged for a post or two (or twenty).

don't be a stranger.

[Horse with no Name]

116. You are one of the people that make DU what it is

and certainly the fact that I can whip out my bitch claws in 0-60 flat (regrettably at times) I can understand how anyone can lose their heads once or twice with what we have all gone through in the last few years.
There really shouldn't be any apology necessary--because you were provoked.
However, it's really nice to see that you offered on up.
:toast:

[NNN0LHI]

117. You don't owe me no apology

Just glad to see you are back.

I must admit though I didn't read that long assed post either. :o

Don

[shadowknows69]

118. IMO the only apology owed to the general public

is from TO for the damage they've done to independent journalism.

[Kurovski]

119. I've missed you every single day since you've been gone.

After all the years of you being here, I felt the absence.

I remember the days when you were a champion freep-fighter, and now you do it on a much larger--and frankly more important--scale.

Good to see you. :hug:

[Blue_Tires]

121. ttt !!

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Philosoraptor]

124. Half a dozen paragraphs or so might have sufficed.

But the Whole first edition of "War and Pitt"?

[arwalden]

126. Public Masturbation Is Illegal In Some States

[Taxloss]

137. Clearly not Massachusetts. n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

268. oh no you din't!

LMFAO!

[arwalden]

125. ~

:thumbsup:

[Zhade]

144. Yup. Ego needs to be fed and all that.

I appreciate Pitt's writing, but wow, could that have been any more "me me me I I I"?

He'll stop lurking after his hissy fit is over. He always comes back.

[Philosoraptor]

145. It's hard to distinguish one's self among 90 K folks.

But it can be done.

[Zhade]

150. His WORK does it, that should be good enough.

NT!

[Philosoraptor]

153. We all admire his work, I certainly do.

But I timed how long it took me to read the thing with a calendar.

[Taxloss]

156. I'll summarise again.

"I've learned nothing, care little, and am paid by the word."

[katinmn]

329. and still gets 72 recommendations

:shrug:

[arwalden]

419. Fucking Groupies Will Nominate ANYTHING...

... if it was a Pitt post that said "I just took a dump" it would have gotten 50 nominations.

[Snivi Yllom]

425. I am reminded of this

[bridgit]

175. .

:spray:

[Roon]

203. No fucking doubt

eom

[Jazz2006]

221. Thanks, Taxloss

That sounds like what I would have expected, and saved me a lot of time.

[johnnie]

352. You are funny

:eyes:

[Gman]

127. Yeah, well there's a whole lot of us that were here back through all that

it was I who was chewing Pitt's butt out on election night November 2002 for his behavior that evening. Did he listen? No.

[riderinthestorm]

128. Wanna beer?

It's always good to have a cold frosty one while watching thread fall out, for better or worse.

Someone dumped a mama cat and her 6 new kittens in one of my back barns this morning. One of the little black and white females is snuggled up on my lap - want to hold one? They're also good for keeping the blood pressure down. (Anyone want a free kitten in about 6 weeks, pm me!)

Keep your chin up and kick on. Glad you are back!

[H2O Man]

130. In response to

the cheap and ugly attacks on Mr. Pitt and Truthout, I sent a check that is 250% more than my usual annual contribution to Truthout this week.

[understandinglife]

147. As always, an excellent response and ...

... I'll do the same re: Truthout donation.


pro-Bu$h = Anti-America

[bleever]

193. I'm with you guys. Adding another donation to the one I made

when the ugliness was peaking.

Gotta go do take care of some business...

[H2O Man]

228. It sends

a positive message.

[understandinglife]

338. Well done, my friend!

:thumbsup:


Peace.

[H2O Man]

223. Good.

Truthout provides an important service, and deserves the support of progressives/democrats.

[arwalden]

166. Well... I'm Sending A Check That 500% More Than Last Year!!

So there!

[DisgustedTX]

396. The culprit "donates" to himself - how quaint.

It amazes me that no one sees the obvious.

[arwalden]

415. ~ LOL!! ~

It *is* pretty funny! I don't know how it could have been any MORE obvious.

[Catrina]

172. An excellent idea, H2OMan ~ Having been in some of those threads

facing down the nastiness, I have to agree with Will Pitt, and said so to a few of the anonymous and 'profile disabled' types, that regardless of how you felt about the issue, both Will Pitt and Jason Leopold won in the credibility department simply because they were courageous enough to use their own names and take the heat or the credit for what they had to say.

Not that I don't understand people not wanting to do that, only that I noticed that a preponderance of the few who were on the attack, demanding 'transparency' were not overly transparent themselves ~ seemed rather hypocritical to me therefore.

[Taxloss]

177. Yes, transparency is so crucial in these things.

So ... who were Leopold's sources? Oh, they weren't named. But you still bought that story.

[Catrina]

182. I think you missed my whole point completely, but never mind. Is 'Taxloss'

your real name, btw? Just wondering ~ :-)

[H2O Man]

231. Yep.

People can make positive choices, or can invest their energies in being negative. It's important for those who take a positive approach ignore the dark forces here, and support the good works of Truthout.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

279. One man's negative force is another man's positive force.

Pardon my polarity. Maybe I'm grounded differently than you.

I reject your absolute definitions of "positive" and "negative" as being merely relative. Like mine. From my standpoint: 1) skepticism is a positive force that protects the credulous/naïve from the cynical/predatory; 2) Blind faith in anything, especially an individual or a media organ, is a negative force.

TruthOut.org must be questioned. They must answer. "Trust me" is not an acceptable response.

Please consider this hypothesis: TruthOut might have made a mistake with this article. Any evidence is held closely to the chest of Patrick Fitzgerald, as it should be. There is nothing, repeat nothing, beside the claims of the author and publisher of TruthOut's "Karl Rove was indicted on May 12" article to corroborate that extraordinary claim. You know as well as I do what extraordinary claims require. It has not been forthcoming. The excuses for this are pitiful. We would not accept them from a supposed right-wing media organ.

[arwalden]

417. Are You Suggesting...

<< Not that I don't understand people not wanting to do that, only that I noticed that a preponderance of the few who were on the attack, demanding 'transparency' were not overly transparent themselves ~ seemed rather hypocritical to me therefore. >>

Are you suggesting that the ONLY people who should be permitted to criticize on this forum are the ones who do not use anonymous (non-personally-identifying) handles and usernames?

Do you mean to say that if someone is unwilling to publicly provide personal information about themselves, when criticizing your heroes, then their dissenting voices are invalid? Or that they are being hypocrites?

Wow. :eyes:

[Laurab]

209. I had the same idea H20 Man

I couldn't do it, as I was broke. I'm not broke now, and I'm going to donate right after I type this - thanks for the reminder!

[H2O Man]

222. Good.

I think it makes an important statement.

[Laurab]

232. Thanks again

I added a shout-out to Will and Jason, who have both taken so much abuse. It was a good feeling, I'm glad your post reminded me.

[kpete]

258. xlnt response

I put a curse on all who seek to put black holes in hearts...

[Mr_Spock]

395. That's a positive way to show one's support

Thanks for sharing - I think it's a good idea.

[Joe Chi Minh]

131. A fascinating read, Will. I didn't know anything of the history of the

origins of DU, before, but you're a great communicator.

I've intimated to you before that you sometimes show a touch of genius in your writings, but your "whatever lonesome shabby reality you currently writhe in..." is worthy of the Good Doctor, himself. "writhe in"!!!! Hilarious!

If you can post another great read like this, I hope you make another boo-boo (not that I consider it to have been such, myself).

[spacelady]

201. If I were to answer this post, I would like it to echo your sentiment....

I was reminded of the DR., also, who cast off this earthly realm on my birthday, Feb. 20th, so if I piggyback on your post, it is because that's what I wanted to say, but could not do it nearly as well. Thank you & peace!

However, I do not consider it "Hilarious" I rather think of it as "heartfelt" and and any Boo-Boo that may occur will be not a mistake, but the truth that will out, or mayhap the Truth That is WillPitt!

[BlackVelvet04]

134. Thank you for the background info and the apology.....

I didn't need or expect one, but it was a nice thing to do.

You're absolutely right about all of us being an ass at one time or another if we've been online for very long. I surely have at the site where I'm an admin, but the members forgive me and accept that sometimes it all gets too much and one just freaks out for a while.

All you can be is who you are, Will, and that includes being human and blowing your cool sometimes. Anybody that doesn't understand that is way too holier than thou for me.

Peace.

[cally]

136. This post brought back so many memories

I'm sorry for all the hateful comments towards you personally. I found long ago that I can't take this place so seriously because too many folks are here now and we can't seem to control the vitrol. I always am saddened when it happens to a fellow progressive who is fighting the good fight. I have no idea what to believe about the Rove indictment. I trust you but until it's confirmed I can't start celebrating. I know you would not purposefully lie to us about something this important. I hope you come back to posting on DU when you are able. It's this place's loss when the great posters like you leave. Hang in there.

[Cocoa]

141. I've always held the others as responsible as you, Will

the real fucked-up thing is/was the way so many people rallied/rally around you, right or wrong.

I know they think/thought this was a good thing, but imo it is/was really fucked up.

I've noticed that at times you've tried to call off the dogs, but not always. :-)

[JuniperLea]

421. Uhhhh

Many of us rallied around the still clear possibility that the story is correct. I saw very little ass kissing for the sake of ass kissing in these debates. I did, however, see a lot of bashing for bashing's sake.

[matcom]

148. got your back brother

stayed 100% outta that bullshit.

you're a great man, a great journalist and most importantly a fantastic friend. you ALWAYS got that.

rock on.

[KoKo]

151. Apologies with "qualifiers" are the cruelist apologies of all...

because what's apologized for is miminalized by the qualifier.

God Speed, Pitt. When the history of DU is written that you were part of the "REAL UNDERGROUND" should be told. The "Place" where those could be part of the "Secret Place" vetted and initiated like "Secret Societies" from time's beginning....like "Skull & Bones" for Bush and his buddies....and John Kerry and the rest. And, like what goes on all over the world. I don't trash Kerry or Bush, btw for this. It happened on "DU' after all. We always have ways of "segmenting our GREAT SELVES off from the "riff raff." It's the way it's always been.

THAT SAID:

Because...your "Real Underground" came above ground and trashed all the Newbies way back there in the 2001 Time Frame there are many of us who were victims of your "undergound" tactics where we were called "Freeps and worse" and an effort was made to "Tombstone" us.

I and others made it through the gauntlet you all through down for us and we are still here...whether posting in real time or lurking. We SHARE your experience of DU. But, your's was more "privileged than ours.

God Speed....though. Not posting to dig up graves. Not posting to have DNA verified from digging up the graves.

It "is what it is."

[Vanje]

253. Tech help: How do I block a certain poster?

THanks in advance.
Immediately wont be soon enouqh.

[TwilightZone]

264. Here's how....

Click on the icon with the red x to the right of the username of the poster you wish to ignore.

Enjoy. :)

[Vanje]

306. Now I feel cleansed

Tankyou T.zone!

[Shakespeare]

261. That is flat-out not true.

You said:

"Because...your "Real Underground" came above ground and trashed all the Newbies way back there in the 2001 Time Frame there are many of us who were victims of your "undergound" tactics where we were called "Freeps and worse" and an effort was made to "Tombstone" us."

I'm one of the "original DUers." My original nickname was Not_over_it. I was part of the "underground underground." I was later a moderator, on multiple tours of duty. And I will tell you as a stone-cold fact that freep hunts were not organized from the basement (that, as it is now, seems the domain of the private message netherworld); in fact, most people were welcome in the basement once they'd made enough substantive posts that it was clear they weren't freepers. It wasn't terribly exclusive, but did offer a feeling of refuge for many. Banning as a means of dealing with trolls didn't even begin until AFTER the hidden forum was done away with (there were exceptions with Bill 4X4 and a couple of others, but that was strictly an admin thing, and had nothing to do with DUers working among themselves). For you to compare the short-lived hidden forum to Skull & Bones is sickening, and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so.

[Joe Chi Minh]

154. "Apologies with 'qualifiers' are the cruellest apologies of all.."

Now, I feel I can hit the pit with an easy heart, in peace. My worst fears were unfounded!

Those the apologies were NOT aimed at, far from drawing unintended and undeserved apologies, were only infuriated that they were excluded. God speed, noble clown, yourself.

[redwitch]

155. DU wouldn't be DU without WillPitt

:hi:

[Career Prole]

157. I love you, you sonuvabitch.

In that honest way that one New Englander loves another who's done a righteous. :D
Thanks for being Will, Will.

[HereSince1628]

159. Welcome to reality, where one "Aw shit" wipes out years of good work

We all know that. No offense intended Will.

Just try to be careful in the future. It's as simple as that. If you are working you're going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes.

'fess up to what they are and go on.

[Pharaoh]

161. shiete man! that was a long un..

we love ya will.

fuck the cretins, we all blow a gasket now and then,

tis the nature of the human predicament.........

[Jigarotta]

173. fuck the cretins...

see, I'm still not sure who the cretins are. I'm still not sure if the OP is an apology for his unprofessional behaviour or a forgiveness of something (that i'm not sure of), and to whom. I'm not sure if just questioning the Rove indictment story makes one a viscious attacker on personal Pitt, a cretin or all those other names (which actually means nothing to me, sticks and stones stuff, but am curious if I'm one of the 'forgiven' or one that is given a sorta apology)...

hell, I know absolutely Nothing more than a month ago about all this, from this post, except some DU history (which I must say, I knew about some of those things before coming to DU, so I'm again not sure what you mean by that).

You've come here to 'apologize' but end your post to continue the fight mode to that 'small group' - whoever they are because I don't think naming names is allowed. And what exactly did they say to you to trigger your outrage that you have them an excuse for? could you give us some kind of idea of what those viscious attacks were?

are you so sure they were so viscious or that you just cannot take criticism?

just asking is all.
but I'm not sure I'm allowed to.

[DancingBear]

195. Well, how about that?

You see, it seems that when one attacks the story, then by some miraculous new theory of osmosis one also attacks the person(s) behind it, and this is deemed to be very bad.

However, if said person(s) behind said story roll out a series of words last seen on a restroom wall on the Jersey Turnpike this is excused as "just making a mistake."

I. too, am very interested to see these personal attacks that everyone seems to speak of. Exactly when did they occur? Were they provoked? Were they (perhaps) in response to something? Or were they, as I surmise, nothing more than attacks on CREDIBILITY that are seen as personal attacks?

The interesting thing about this thread is this: NOBODY is defending the article. Everyone is defending one of the principals. Interesting tactic - obfuscate the issue by redirecting the focus.

Where I have seen THAT before?

Oops.

[oldtime dfl_er]

162. So you're a hothead

It only goes to show that you're fervent in your beliefs. I admire that. I admire your apology. I admire you. I won't say welcome back because I don't consider you were ever gone. Nice to see you again!

[Catrina]

*lol* ~ Anyone as hated by the Freeps as Will is, is okay by me.

It takes a little passion and hot-headedness to achieve such status in freeperville.

But it was only a few who contributed to the real nastiness anyway, and most needed no apology. I understood who Will's anger was directed at. People online need to develop a thicker skin anyway, moaning about perceived insults probably means someone needs to find another hobby.

[bleever]

197. Well said.

Having one of my threads mocked in detail over in freeperville was a proud moment. Will has the ability and fortitude to do it consistently.

:thumbsup:

[MH1]

167. Great post.

I'll admit I wimped out on the apologia part, skimming it conveyed that you were saying et exactly right.

I've mostly stayed away from all this because I'm in the "cautiously optimistic" camp and I know exactly what you mean about certain posters who make things personal and ugly. What a waste of time when a thread gets overrun with that crap.

Anyway, I also appreciated the link to the May 19 march. I was there too, and I felt it was exciting and vitally important, but I was depressed at what I considered the low turnout. I came away convinced that most Americans really don't care about democracy. (But as you notice, I still do.)

Anyway, it's great to see this post. I won't say welcome back because I knew all along you weren't leaving. And you were only right around the corner at truthout, anyway. ;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

169. Fuck!

I actually read all that. Wasn't even here for this truthout story, have no idea what you're talking about.

But I read that whole damn thing.

Gawd.

[Philosoraptor]

171. Laughin' out loud here

Great response!

[Bouncy Ball]

174. Hell, I don't even know WHAT my response is.

I've know Pitt a long time, too. All I wanted to say was FUCK.

I don't know what all this drama mess is. And I don't want to know. So why did I read all that? No idea.

[Jigarotta]

176. I think the OP just killed a baby papyrus, but

don't ask me what that means either.

[Bouncy Ball]

178. Aren't platypuses a protected species?

Tee hee.

[Jigarotta]

179. could be, are platitudes as well?

I heard the last one was killed in some rainforest, but I don't think that's true.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

225. Nah, there are many, many sanctuaries for Platitudes...

... you must be thinking of the Plateosaurus (or "flat lizard").

It had a long tail (easy to stand on), long hind limbs, and a small head at the end of a fairly long neck. Although it walked on four legs, palaeontologists believe it could rear up on its hind legs and use its powerful clawed hands to pull in succulent morsels. The abundance of Plateosaurus fossils at some localities has prompted the suggestion that they lived in herds and even that they migrated to avoid seasonal droughts or other uncomfortable situations (but they always returned).

Plateosaurus and the other prosauropods were the first dinosaur group to feed exclusively on vegetation (or paper) and were the first animals on Earth to evolve the ability to feed on relatively high vegetation. Until their appearance all herbivores had been squat, short-necked animals incapable of reaching high foliage (a.k.a. "creshifucks").

[Jigarotta]

343. ahhh. Plateosaurus - of the blue Hedgewood era.

with imprinted slogan: 'can dish it out, but can't take it.'

[Shakespeare]

183. WHERE THE HOLY FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN???

Geez, I missed ya, girl. Good to see you posting.

[blogslut]

170. Welcome back Mr. Pitt

When you see Mr. Leopold next, give him a hug. I imagine he could use one. :)

[FogerRox]

180. WOW KNR, welcome back home WIll Pitt, grab a seat, relax.....

[Arkham House]

Good to see you again...

I'd like to simply say that your work has made the past couple of nightmarish years much more endurable than it would otherwise have been, and I feel I owe you a personal debt...the spirit of Tom paine is still alive. You've made me feel positive and optimistic about our country, and God bless you for that. I hope that someday you'll consider running for office yourself. Meanwhile, this was an instructive and moving thread, and I hope we'll still be seeing you once in awhile...

[PurgedVoter]

181. You are one of the treasures of DU.

I don't agree with a lot of what you have said, I do agree with a lot of what you said. I value that. You make me think. You make me question. Especially when I disagree. When a clever and thinking and open minded man has thoughts that disagree with my own, that is a treasured moment for me. An opportunity to examine what I know. Thank you for your brashness, your thought and your research.

I hope that this forum, a forum that you helped shape, will be part of a renewal of our democracy.

[Shakespeare]

184. Will sees button. Will pushes button....

....calculable subset of DU goes snarlingly apeshit. :rofl:

Welcome back. Again. And a big old smooch to you, you irritating bastard.

[OneGrassRoot]

369. LMAO.........

"calculable subset of DU goes snarlingly apeshit."

Snarlingly apeshit indeed! I CHOSE to read Will's post, as well as scan responses, and my primary thought: there are some folks here who need to get laid. Now.

:rofl:

[idgiehkt]

185. I think this is cool.

I don't know alot of the history and I really don't care. I remember reading the post in question and it broke my heart. I can't even really say why because I don't want to offend any higher ups, but I could feel the pain in it and I could see it from that perspective. I had just been through something with a story that got out of control and spread around to different publications based on some things that weren't true, and that is still wreaking havoc in my life even still, after almost 2 months. And this was something so comparatively minor it is not even funny. Yet a couple of what were my closest friendships have been wrecked because of it. Beyond repair. I was eviscerated on a friend's website, then that relationship got healed and now is cut off again. So I cannot imagine what the truthout people have been through with this story. I mean CAN'T IMAGINE. I'm glad I've had the benefit of going through my own little personal hell recently so that I can empathize. I remember what Ted Kennedy put on Buzzflash when Daschle wouldn't filibuster the medicare bill over thanksgiving a few years back, that what do we need republicans for if we are so willing to form a circular firing squad. Look what that Solomon guy has done to Reid over the past couple of days. Somehow I don't think Republicans are killing each other over that. I digress, I guess the point of this is the apology. The back story on the old days is really cool. When I read that post I thought it was just venting...nothing wrong with that, seems to be done here pretty much every day, by alot of people.

[kpete]

186. I have read the Whole post and

I knew from my first day here that you were not just any DUer.

You were Will Pitt...


I have not been at DU long, maybe a year.

I salute you and thank you for giving us some insight into the beginnings of this place

It sounds like there were many heroes here then and we should honor them.


I think DU has put you on a pedestal, and that makes it hard for some of us to see you as a human being.

Those who attack you personally - probably have no idea who you REALLY are.

I have never minded your ranting or venting. If anything, it helps to see you on a more personal level.


You are such an important part of DUs pulse and it would NOT be the same without you.


I remember something Stop The Bleeding wrote-

He said something like, some of us write, some of us post, some of us comment - all of us contribute

[stop the bleeding]

189. I am like you kpete in everything you said - Ditto

I am late to the party but feel like we are in special place both with DU and with history in general.

I am grateful for DU, TO, Rawstory, for Takebackthemedia for Rove's War, for Bradblog, justoneminute, firedoglake, thinkprogress, huffingtonpost, for Will Pitt, H2O Man, countless Duers(you know who you are), Cindy Sheehan, Russ Feingold, B. Boxer, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, my cats, above all else my lady.

All of these help make it possible to confront the "world" that we live and have to wake up to everyday.

Thank you to all -- thank you.

Peace to all:grouphug:

PS, I kind of remember saying something like that, sounds about right for me and for DU.

[DancingBear]

204. You said this

" am grateful for DU, TO, Rawstory, for Takebackthemedia for Rove's War, for Bradblog, justoneminute, firedoglake, thinkprogress, huffingtonpost, for Will Pitt, H2O Man, countless Duers(you know who you are), Cindy Sheehan, Russ Feingold, B. Boxer, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu"

We ALL are.

When they are right, we applaud them, and when they are wrong, we expect better.

ANY of the abovementioned should be held to the highest of standards.

NO exceptions. NO "24 business hours" bullshit. NO "ahead of the news cycle" garbage.

The goose and the gander both must play by the same rules.

In order to beat the bastards the credibilty factor must be perfect.

From where a lot of us sit, it sure as hell ain't.

[JuniperLea]

414. Can you name one 100% reliable source?

"The goose and the gander both must play by the same rules."

I agree with this... so, are you going to apologize to WP, TO, et al, if/when the story turns out to be spot on?

Don't give me historic reference. The current administration is vile beyond any historic US POTUS measure. Don't spout laws either; this administration doesn't adhere to them or even recognize them.

[arwalden]

188. Wow... all that "apologia" and not a single mention of Andy anywhere.

Hmmm.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

196. Well, StopTheBleeding... It's True.

It's a fair observation. It's difficult to argue with facts. (Also... I do not know why you've chosen to make personal comments about me.)

[stop the bleeding]

198. It's true eom

[arwalden]

199. My Observations Are True...

... yours are not.

[stop the bleeding]

200. Opinions vary eom

[arwalden]

202. Yet Facts Remain Unchanged. -- I Stand By My Original Statement.

So many words, yet nothing about Andy.

[stop the bleeding]

205. Thank you

for playing, good night and I'll see you out on the playing field.

[arwalden]

271. Not If I See You First.

[motocicleta]

300. No

You're out of line.

I recommend you sit back and listen for a while. When in doubt, shut up and listen.

[beam me up scottie]

307. Really?

Why is that poster's opinion less valid than yours?

I recommend you sit back and listen for a while. When in doubt, shut up and listen.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

[Name removed]

320. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

322. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[motocicleta]

327. I am skewed on the horns of dilemma

If I give up this ridiculous sparring match, will I look like I'm admitting defeat even though my opponent is sadly off target? Or will I look like the bigger person for walking away from the battlefield when victory could be mine?

Oh well, who gives a shit. Only a moran would accuse me of being a freeptard. Consider yourself excommunicated, kirk.

[beam me up scottie]

332. You're skewed on something, all right, Captain H.

And it's not dilemma.


:rofl:

[arwalden]

405. Here's Your Reply, Motocicleta

<< You're out of line. >>

No... *YOU'RE* out of line.

<< I recommend you sit back and listen for a while. >>

Oh good grief! :eyes: You're not really in any sort of position to recommend anything to me. Frankly, I see no compelling reason to take *any* recommendations from you at all.

<< When in doubt, shut up and listen. >>

There, you see? I'm NOT in any doubt. Surely, you don't really think I'm going to "shut up" simply because you demand it of me, do you?

[motocicleta]

422. I don't doubt that nothing I can do will get you to close your yap

You and your ilk seem quite pleased to keep harping even though you have nothing at all to contribute on this matter. Enjoy!

[arwalden]

427. You Are Trying To Exercise Authority That You Do Not Possess.

<< I don't doubt that nothing I can do will get you to close your yap >>

I "don't doubt" it either. Although it may give one a momentary sense of satisfaction, I'm sure that some here will soon discover that personal insults and bullying will not have the silencing effect you desire.


<< You and your ilk seem quite pleased to keep harping even though you have nothing at all to contribute on this matter. Enjoy! >>

Oh good grief! More groupie-speak?

[WilliamPitt]

207. OK

I'll revise.

The statement made by one poster during the flame-out, that I insisted upon reading the eulogy at his funeral, was one of the more disgusting bald-faced lies I've ever seen here.

Better?

[BeHereNow]

211. A wise man told me...

Don't waste your breath on fools.
That post didn't deserve a reply Will.
Do as Andy did.
Say nothing.
BHN

[H2O Man]

214. Good advice. n/t

[mdmc]

403. How about this BHN

Never argue with fools. They will bring you down to your level, then beat you with experience.

RIP VINCE WELNICK!:patriot:

[JuniperLea]

418. Never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person...

Gawd I just love old sayings:)

How about this... I'll try to remember it...


Not to enlighten one who can be enlightened is to waste a man.

To endeavor to enlighten one who cannot be enlightened is to waste words.

A wise man wastes neither men nor words.

[Laurab]

220. It was the most sickening post I think I've ever read here

and I learned to use ignore right after responding to it. This poster doesn't deserve a reply. It has NOTHING to do with your OP, no matter how many times he posts it.

[liberalnurse]

428. Andy would of had it no other way.....

I sense that Andy was standing right beside Will( angelically speaking) during the eulogy! This is an absolute.

I haven't ready the crap here yet....I'll get to it in a moment for shit and giggles. I just got up from a late night out with PDA'ers at the Ohio DNC State Dinner with O'Bama as keynote speaker.

[coffeenap]

194. Will, I was invited to DU by Andy after he got to know my then

14 year old son who worked on FOIA's 18 hours a day for him. It so happens that they met right in the middle of the Bev debacle, and we were incredibly confused about what was true and what was a lie. After having the great pleasure of meeting him during his visit to Chicago, I knew I could trust him, and did. During the next year, the last year of Andy's life, we talked two or three times a week. He told me about election fraud, he told me about himself, he told me about you. I felt like we were introduced, he told me how inspired he was by you. When he got sick, I joined others who loved him, including you, in trying to fight the battle to save him, and failing that, pledging to continue to fight the fight.

I believe you are doing everything you can to help us regain our country. If there are mistakes along the way, or if there are roadblocks, delays, or other obstacles, well, then so there are.

I thank you for what you do, I thank you for coming back here. m.

[BeHereNow]

206. And as my favorite Neville brother sang, "Tell it like it is..."

Although I disagree with the hammer head shark
chorus-
I think blood sucking, bottom feeding
pus filled leeches better describes
the pack of retarded rabid dogs you refer to.
Love you brother Will.
Always have always will.
PM me-
I want to tell you about something nice.
I lost your number, sorry bout that, and am not
posting or visiting here much these days
and I don't want to lose touch with you.
Love to you,
BHN

[Name removed]

208. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

230. Funny...some of us were thinking the same thing about some of the posters

on this thread!
Small world, huh?
BHN

[Roon]

234. About what?

Showing their faces around here when they fuck up as bad as will did?

[BeHereNow]

238. Nah...just showing their faces period- thinking they have actually fooled

someone as they blunder their way through their
agenda in the various DU forums they blight.
By the way, I don't happen to think Will "fucked up"
as you say.
But you are most certainly entitled to your opinion
which, by the way, is certainly more than I have seen you allow other people
in the DU community.
Just saying as I sit on the banks of the river
watching it all flow by.
BHN

[Name removed]

280. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catrina]

246. I don't have any freeper friends, but I do have plenty of experience with

freepers so, let me ask you this: Did your 'freeper friends' love TO, DU, Will Pitt's writings, or anyone who exposed the lies of this adminstration, BEFORE this story came out?

My freeper adversaries called anything that even came close to the truth about the Bush cabal, 'crap'. That's what makes them freepers!

You shouldn't worry too much about what freepers have to say ~ if Will Pitt or TO or DUers or the myriad of patriotic Americans who spoke out against freeper lies, had been that intimadated by them, imagine where this country would be today. Besides, thanks to the likes of Will Pitt et al, freepers are shrinking rapidly in number. I wouldn't want to be influenced by them now of all times.

[Name removed]

283. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

289. YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME.

Got it?
Don't EVEN try to include me in your
blathering declaration.

BHN

[Sydnie]

299. I see the pattern here

Poster reads a story. Story is exciting news. Poster carries story to other cyber venue and repeats story. Poster doesn't have all the info that the writer had when he wrote the story, so he can't defend the story to their "freeper friends". Poster gets embarrassed, not just because the poster now feels that the story might not be what he thought it was (or so they claim it as the source of their embarrassment NOW), but because they were complicit in their own right by carrying the story there in the first place, thus embarrassing their self by their own actions, yet conveniently blaming someone else for all the wrong that has befallen them since they repeated the story. Have I got it all correct?



Yep, I believe I have.



I agree BHN, that poster does not speak for me either.

[motocicleta]

303. I agree as well. I feel no more a fool than I did before this mess.

Whaddaya know, I never repeated any of this to anyone, and I am still open to whatever may happen. I am not so smart as to be able to see the future.

All ya'all who feel like such dookie for being made a fool? I'm guessing this is something of a pattern for you. You may wish to heed my advice to another of your ilk: talk less, listen more. You avoid a lot of problems that way.

[BeHereNow]

312. Now and then, it happens

that a sheeple strays from it's herd.
Sometimes, it takes a while for the sheeple
to comprehend that it is no longer with its
flock, thus the need to clarify to the sheeple
that group think does not apply outside
of the herd.
I think this may be the case in this particular
situation and so I have acted accordingly as needed
while dealing with a lost sheeple.
You must state loudly to such sheeple and
often repeatedly,
"YOU DO NO SPEAK FOR ME"
Bahhh-Bahhh
"YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME"

Eventually they understand, be patient
and persistent.

BHN

[Catrina]

316. No one can make someone else a fool. A fool is a fool. The rest of

us form opinions and don't blame others if we turn out to be wrong. The decision to accept something is ours alone. No one forces us to accept anything. You need to speak for yourself when you make a statement like that.

I care not one bit what freepers think or say. They are liars, fools and have been proven wrong so often, it's almost cruel to take them on anymore. They will most likely be proven wrong once again, and in the meantime they will use anything to try to intimidate those who disagree with them.

I'm sorry you are so worried about the opinion of fools. It is they who fell for all the lies told to them by this administration. It was Will Pitt, TO and others who told the truth. They made fun of it then and now they prefer not to be reminded of it. Naturally, I remind them all the time of what fools they were.

Maybe instead of letting them bully you, you should do the same. It's easy and getting easier all the time as all the lies are exposed and the corruption that they blindly supported.

[diamondsndust]

384. Thanks for the laugh...

The ONLY thing that made you a fool was this post. You don't speak for me either. Don't put your words in my mouth, they leave a nasty taste. :puke:

As for the rest of the attack dogs, Will Pitt doesn't owe you an apology, or anything else for that matter, for posting the Rove story here. Number one, he didn't write the article and number two, he was just trying to pass along what he felt was a great breaking story that he had every reason to believe in. This doesn't show any kind of character flaw on his part. We ALL want to see this criminal cabal go down, don't we? Don't shoot the messenger just because the message was wrong.

Do people make mistakes?? Of course they do. One only needs to look at the story last week about the identity confusion of the 2 girls in that accident. Hell, her own family mis-identified her for what, 6 weeks?? I'm not trying to make light of this terrible tragedy, just making a point, and that point is that people make mistakes, period.

[Kingofalldems]

256. You posted them on Yahoo?

I'd like to read that. Got a link?

[Roon]

285. It was real time chat

Something that most people here can't handle

[Kingofalldems]

304. "....something that most people here can't handle."

Sounds like you have a low opinion of most of DU members. Interesting.

[Mr_Spock]

314. "Something that most people here can't handle"

Imagine if most people on DU weren't cowards huh?

:eyes:

[SpecialK]

210. I'm a new-newbie and I love ya. . .

. . .Although I was a lurker for a long time before I started posting, I do appreciate the DU History 101 lesson. And after following the Leopold fiasco, it is great to hear from you again. We all make mistakes, and I really don't think that your reputation as a talented & valuable writer/contributor to this site and elsewhere should be tarnished over this nonsense.

Also, I think people here need to keep in mind that harping on this TO issue is really a distraction...not unlike Chimpy McFlightsuit dedicating a day of speeches on Monday to the gay marriage issue...(as if there were no other pressing issues?!?!?) Come on!! TO is standing by their story...we know nothing either way...let's move on!!!

[patricia92243]

212. self deleat

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

213. 57% back-story, 38% apologia, 5% qualified apology*

*based on word counts.

I kicked and rec'd this thread earlier because I thought it was important for people to read WilliamPitt's side of the story before I posted anything that might be distracting. I think enough time has passed for me to comment on the content of that OP.

Regarding the back-story that took up most of the post: I found some of it interesting but wildly irrelevant and felt that it was only posted for self-aggrandizement. It explains nothing.

Some specific quibbles on the remaining 43% follow:

Here's the thing, and you can winkle out these threads yourself: On the day I posted the story, and several times afterwards, I said it was good and fine and appropriate for people to reserve judgment. To wait for further proof. To wait for backup.

Actually, that's not true. You posted the link to Jason Leopold's story on May 12. Your first reference to people reserving judgment or having doubts was almost two days (45 non-business-hours) later on Sun May-14-06 03:03 PM in the "Jeez, Jason" thread. Up to that point, your posts were anything but accepting of people's doubts (however expressed). Hey, you invited us to go winkling... call me "Winkle_In_Time".

In this thread, you have apologized unequivocally for appearing to attack doubters. That's admirable. However, you qualified the people who don't deserve your apology on the subjective phrase "you know who you are". That's not admirable. I have no idea if you consider me a doubter, a hammer-head-snark™ or even at all. I also don't care, because it plays to your ego.

Now we get to your issue about real names vs. nom-de-plume. I replied to you when you posited this some months ago. Here's the gist:

• Your real name is your business: as a writer, you desire make money with it.
  
• My real name is none of your business. I have other desires for it.

DU doesn't require me to post personal information in a public space. You choose to. You signing up for an account on DU using your real name does not make you better than me. Claiming superiority because of it implies the converse.

You like quoting the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson. As the Good Doctor said, "buy the ticket, take the ride." You bought the ticket. Either stop whining when the ride gets a bit bumpy or get off. Selah.

[Roon]

216. No doubt

eom

[beam me up scottie]

248. Distracting?

Since when is the truth distracting?

Thanks for setting the record straight.

DU doesn't require me to post personal information in a public space. You choose to. You signing up for an account on DU using your real name does not make you better than me. Claiming superiority because of it implies the converse.

:thumbsup:

[KarenS]

215. WilliamPitt, I'm glad you're back.

:hi:

[mithnanthy]

217. Thanks for the memories...

of 2001, and how we felt and what a bond we had formed. DU held me together through the rest of this nightmare. I guess, for some...ya just had to be here, to understand what DU meant to us. Thanks Will, for the memories. And don't sweat the small stuff.

[pacalo]

218. The only thing that didn't make sense to me

in regard to all the snarkiness directed toward you was why it seemed so personal, so I now feel more enlightened after reading about the history here at DU.

At least for me, it's easy to perceive your good character through your posts -- not only by the substance of what you write but by the words you choose -- & I can't bear to see anyone being subjected to a mob mentality by a few posters. And it just went on & on, so I felt compelled to speak up.

Any time I've seen a snarky reply of yours to someone, it was usually the result of your being needled just for the heck of it. Unless I've missed something, I've never seen you cut anyone down unless they asked for it.

I truly think you might have fared better posting with a nickname rather than your real name, because I suspect jealousy/envy might be a motivation for some posters. Cutting down a journalist behind the cloak of a computer might give a much-needed lift to their own egos.

Those who seemed to be on a mission to hurt you owe you an apology. Don't hold your breath; I didn't get the impression they have the same sensitivity toward others that you have.

[Laurab]

226. Well said 8_year_nightmare

I think you're on to something, and I couldn't agree more.

[Philosoraptor]

398. Not jealousy and envy, just tedium.

Yes, he does good works, yes, he is longwinded, and yes, he's trolling for compliments and reassurance.

[In Truth We Trust]

219. Paper ballots and Hand counts NOW!!! Democracy NOW!!! Just saying Will

I for one appreciate your post and your prescence. Keep up the good fight. NGU!

[sweetheart]

224. whatever

good luck you,

democrat! :-)

[Cleita]

227. Gee WP. Of all the things you have written here I think I like this

the best. It sure brought up memories for me. Thanks.

[titoresque]

229. Never doubted the Rove story

still don't. Glad you're back Will.

[gardenista]

233. I've seen the same group in action, over and over on this site

I've written about it, I've complained to the mods, I've challenged them and faced their wrath. But you've described perfectly the mindset, and I agree that they just can't help themselves:

"like the hammerhead shark, you cannot resist the scent of blood, even if it is the blood of your own kind, and that sucks...but a) it is what it is, and b) we will prevail even with you trying to drag the rest of us down into the wacky behavioral sink God saw fit to drop you into, because we are collectively better than that..."

Will, keep doing what you are doing, and screw the assholes. For the folks who got hurt in the crossfire, I'm glad you're man enough to apologize. Now I hope we can all move the fuck on.

[BeHereNow]

241. Tin Foil Alert!!!!

Are you by any chance referring to the "group?"
As in the folks who run back to another message board
toting and posting links from this one as they declare,
"Look, look what I did! Hardy-har-har"

As if somehow, by some magical cyber cloak of invisibility
those trophy posts could not be viewed by any one with Internet access?
And just HOW hard is it to figure out who the flame and bait
fishermen are???

Hmmm...I think I shall have to alert
the mods about your conspiracy toned post...
Heh-heh!
BHN

[gardenista]

242. My tinfoil is a badge of honor. Shall we coordinate our sonar

array?

:tinfoilhat:

[BeHereNow]

252. Abso-fucking-lutely!!! Meet me at frequency number 9...

I repeat, number 9.
So far, that frequency has not been
infiltrated by you know who...
ROTFLMAO!!!
BHN

[gardenista]

337. Damn, I missed the meeting!

I was grinding glass into my eyes and forgot all about it!

I'm switching to 3, they've forgotten about that one for now.

:yoiks:

[Jigarotta]

243. in order to move the fuck on, there must be closure.

My sundial says it's the third week anniverisary of Rove's indictment. Roves indictment stamped as May 12th is the closure.
THAT's the story that is being so obsessively avoided by too many.

[beam me up scottie]

245. There is.

The Pitt has spoken.

Who are you to question the story?

Is Jigarotta your "real" name?

Hmmmmmmmmmm?

:rofl:

[Jigarotta]

250. aka LeatherAss

here's an excerpt from my 'profile'.

,.|..
and I have fabergé eggs for breasts.

u think that's enuff to convince anyone I'm not a rove apologist card carrying freeper con?

;)

[beam me up scottie]

257. We'll just leave that up to "The Decider".

When he comes back from his latest "never coming back trip", that is.
:evilgrin:

[Catrina]

260. And so incredibly focused on by a few! n/t

[Jigarotta]

363. back at you.

there are more than you think, but they're afraid.

does that make you feel, like what?
discouraging open dialogue on the many focI?

[Cameron27]

371. Thank you Jigarotta

Low post counts, using a screen name, and not being on the right side of this particular debate are apparently just cause for being labelled some very nasty things.

I beefed up my profile with more personal info than I'd ever think of doing ANYWHERE else. Said fuck that, went back and deleted it out.

So, again thanks, really sincerely thank you.

[Turn CO Blue]

274. And here you are again..

[BeHereNow]

287. Let me guess what you mean by that...

Is it possible that you have detected a
pattern?
I thought I was the only one.
Nice to know I am not imagining things.
BHN

[Jigarotta]

333. I see certain patterns as well, as some others here do.

is yours paisley or polka dots?
which one is the 'right' one cuz it's important that I be in the right fashion sense.

what do you think I should wear (of course it will be My choice).

:rofl:

[blue neen]

239. I avoided the flame-out threads and all the ugliness that was going on

here a few weeks ago. The confrontations between all parties was not pleasant to see or experience.

The abridged DU history lesson you gave us was interesting and appreciated because I did not know a lot of what you explained i.e. the "bloodsport" and the "downstairs." In fact, I've become educated on many political issues because of posters like you, H2O Man, Symbolman, TruthIsAll, Khephra, Andy, kpete, liveoaktx, and many more. The wealth of information provided on this site has made DU a valuable resource for those of us looking for the truth in our media-manipulated country.

Keep doing your best to inform us, and in that sense you will always "be a DUer."

[rosesaylavee]

244. Welcome back, Will.

DU feels right again. I look forward to hear more when its available.

:hi:

[Ksec]

247. So in other words youre human.

Good post dude.

[dpbrown]

251. Whew! First time reading a whole post AND comments in a while...

I think it's funny. In 2000 I was busy protesting the stolen election and organizing other people to protest. I found the DU regional Yahoo group for the Midwest and posted protest information to it. I also got published at websites that don't exist anymore. I found the forums when I needed to ask why the Yahoo groups had been shut down. As far as I can tell, I've been a member here for about as long as Will. Heck, I remember when TO started sending me newsletters without asking my permission and I asked them to stop.

I've been kicked off of other Yahoo groups and such and such. I was a founding member of the Minnesota Progressive Caucus, now the DFL Progressive Caucus. I got myself elected to Boston as a Kucinich delegate. I posted to every single IndyMedia site instructions on how to write to the UN to get them to stop Bush's invasion plan for Iraq. Blah, blah, blah...

The mainstream media gets a lot of stories wrong. Some stories that it gets right get screwed up anyway. Does anyone not believe that Rather shared the actual words or thoughts of the guy who kept Bush out of Vietnam? But they were recently typed, since Bush got himself elected Governor to scrub the record so he could seek higher office.

Will's just another guy making a living on writing for the side of hope and light and goodness and peace. Personally, I don't care if he's got an ego the size of Ohio.

JH Hatfield was, as far as I know, the only guy making the claim that Bush had criminal penalties from his cocaine habit. That doesn't mean the claim isn't true, and it doesn't mean that it is.

Maybe the TO story is true and they have a source that they can't disclose. To me, anyway, that's not such a stretch. Didn't Bush's New York Times pawn who sat on a story about pre-9/11 specific warnings recently spend some time in jail protecting her source? Media people do it all the time.

I hope Rove and the rest go to jail. I also know that nothing happens until the mainstream media pick things up. That's when the drip, drip, drip turns into a trickle.

I didn't take too seriously the TO fallout, and I missed Will's meltdown (this one, anyway). The only important thing is that people continue to resist, continue to speak up, continue to get in the streets, and continue to get progressive people elected who have a backbone. All these personalities will sort themselves out in the long run.

I'll probably miss Will's next meltdown, too. I think it's funny that people take so seriously their apparent need to try to make him feel badly.

Oh, well. At least now I know that I was not part of an elite class here at DU back in 2001. :rofl:

[Ksec]

263. I stay far away from the politics of the site also.

My life offline has enough of that bullshit. I get online to escape that stuff.

[mortlefaucheur]

255. I and many others are embarrassed for you...

and we forgive you.
That Is All.

[BigBearJohn]

262. I love ya! When I grow up I wanna be just like you. But what do I know?

I love Bill Clinton too!

[Obamarama]

265. Good lord....had that been an Academy Award speech.....

The music would have been cued up after the first couple paragraphs and you would have been shepherded off the stage. I was expecting an apology (of sorts), but instead got an abysmally long vanity post. You really need to get a clue, Will. Seriously. You may be a DU celebrity of sorts, and you may have your dedicated DU groupies, but you really, truly aren't the sun around which the DU world revolves, Will.

I didn't get into the first round of vicious attacks on you, but the nature of this brief(not) history of Will Pitt at DU vanity post disguised as an apology really takes the cake. I didn't always agree with you, Will, but at least I respected you. Not any more.

Good night, and good luck.

[Mr_Spock]

318. Good night, and good luck

Same to you :hi:

[Philosoraptor]

378. As the King told Mozart: "There are just too many notes"

And with Will's apology, too many words.

[NightOwwl]

266. Will Pitt forgives the fuckwits and cretins.

How very...understanding of him.

[mortlefaucheur]

293. Fuckwits.cretins.shitdogs

should be a renewed line of invective against Pugdom.
There ain't much funnier than a shit dog, whatever that is! Is that what fundie repugs buy at the concession stand, or just what they see staring back at themselves from the mirror every morning?
Why not roll with it?
Fuckwits, cretins and shitdogs is probably the most succinct and correctly applied appellation viz Freeptards.
New DUer definitely pro-ShitDog.
Carry On...

[Jazz2006]

308. If only those epithets had been directed to pugs instead of Dems by

the OP, that might have been a good idea.

As it is, the pugs know full well that they were directed to Dems here by the OP in a drunken rant so their usefulness against pugs has been summarily cut off at the knees.

[mortlefaucheur]

313. OK, I'll give you that, but the point is

is that since the Internets been around, this is something they really can't do anything about.
I do my part, and it's been my pleasure to meet ya.
:hi:

[Jazz2006]

317. No worries,

we can always come up with more and more names to call them that aren't tainted by public drunken displays of Dems slagging Dems.

Pleasure to meet you, too.

:hi:

[mortlefaucheur]

321. Thanks for the welcome to DU!

But how rude of me!! The very idea of new DUers stepping into a thread like this!
Thanks again for the warm welcome to sweet DU!

[Jazz2006]

323. ???

There is nothing "rude" about posting in a thread like this whether you've been a member for a day or a month or a year or 5 years.

Some people lurk for a long time before they post; some people read the archives to gain some perspective on issues before they post about those particular issues; some people jump in with lots of foreknowledge gained from other venues, etc. etc.

So, no, it's not "rude" to step into a thread like this.

[mortlefaucheur]

334. Are you for real, Man?

It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance, and that of many other friendly and kind-hearted and talented individuals that I know can find the deepest darkest internet archives.
DU is pretty much kick-ass.
Carry On...

[Jazz2006]

374. It's magic, man.

You seem to have a very strange way of writing subject lines than have nothing to do with the content of your posts.

Bizarre, that.

[Rude Horner]

269. I've always hoped you would return

I find a lot of your posts very interesting. I know some people are still mad about this whole Truthout/Rove story, but I like to save my anger for the people who are destroying the country, and I try not to eat my own. To err is human, to forgive is divine. We've all made mistakes, and said things while posting that were wrong or taken in the wrong context. I just don't see the point to eating each other alive for small differences that we may have. In the end, we're all on the same side and I refuse to be seperated from other Democratic minded people because of mistakes or differences of opinion. I'm still hoping for a Rove indictment and will take a wait and see approach.

I, for one, enjoyed this post. If anyone doesn't like it, they're free not to read it, so I don't understand anyone who complains about it's length or content. To me, Will Pitt is a member of DU who writes some interesting stuff. There are lots of people here who are extremely talented and I am constantly amazed at the quality of research and writing. We may disagree on things once in a while, but I think that's what makes things interesting.

[expatriate]

270. Someone actually sent me the link to this,

and I will not thank him for doing so. To think I actually came here to read that?

WilliamPitt, in that endless, rambling, repetitive post, where you told your version of your career at DU, you did not once mention the absolutely reprehensible thing you did during Andy Stephenson's last days. You, not once, but twice, started an absolute shitstorm here by casting aspersions on Andy's illness, honesty and even intimated that you thought he might be scamming.

The man you called "brother". For some reason, you will still allowed to eulogize him, and I'm amazed that you had the gall to do so after what you did. Despicable.

No matter what you write, no matter how many books you produce, no matter how many DUers think that you crap lilies, I will never be able to forget what you did at that time. You lost any esteem I had for you at that moment, and you've never done anything since to earn it back.

As another longtime DUer said at the time you started those two threads that hurt a dying man so terribly, it's all about you, WilliamPitt. When the attention is directed elsewhere, you just have to draw it back to yourself, don't you? Grandstanding should be your middle name.

Just like the post you wrote that begins this thread. How many times is it now that you've gotten into a snit and done a grand exit, only to come back to grace DU once more with your presence?

If nobody paid any attention to you, you would have gone to greener pastures long ago. You're a bore, WilliamPitt. How many farewell/I'm back! performances are you going to subject DU to?

Frankly, you don't matter to most of the human beings on the planet. Chew on that for a while. No amount of grandstanding will ever make you matter outside a very very tiny pond.

[johnnie]

354. Who are you?

:shrug:

[Cameron27]

372. I believe it's a post by a fellow DU'er.

Why the shrug?

[Philosoraptor]

379. It's about a once a month thing.

Grand announcements, insults, rants, and 80 recommendations for the greatest page.

[Mr_Spock]

397. "Frankly, you don't matter to most of the human beings on the planet"

I was thinking this too - but it wasn't about the O/P...

[Timbuk3]

273. K&R

Will, I've been "here" as long as you have, and I remember all of those things.

I STILL look forward to the next post you make.

If I ever get the chance, I'm buying. Lunch, beers, a day of fishing, whatever.

[eleny]

276. It was nice to hear about some of the DU history

...from you.

[Stephanie]

277. You called me a freeper in one of my first DU posts in 2001

But you also took my side of the argument! Some idiot was calling the firemen who took the flag from a yacht and hung it at Ground Zero thieves. The 9/11 wound was so raw then I was enraged - I live close to there, I know exactly where they got the flag, I knew it was all a war zone. I fought with her and fought with her and then you came on and said, I know this Stephanie's a freeper, but she's RIGHT. Ha ha ha! There had been a freeper Stephanie banned that morning, apparently. Anyway you didn't let your suspicions color your sense of right and wrong. And when you found out I wasn't the freeper you apologized. So cheers to the old days. And I remember very well being scared. Afraid my identity would be connected with my posts. Although I've always used my real name. Well, half of it. A toast to lost DU'ers. Khephra, Nostamj, Andy Stephenson, and to the old days, and to still being here, and now we're winning.
:toast:

[Mr_Spock]

278. Keep fighting the good fight Will...

I've been involved in my share of snarksmanship posts myself in the past couple of years, and I expect people to realize that as a human being, I have moods like anyone else. Some days I just can't take the BS (BuShit) any more.

And so I can appreciate when another has a bad day/week.

I actually appreciate when you snap at someone Will - it shows me that have an emotional investment in what you and others say here.

It's called PASSION. Isn't that what liberal politics is all about?

There are unfortunately those who can't stop the emotions and will hold a grudge. They seem to be endlessly bitter. I'll give you credit though, you seem to attract these people like bees to honey. :rofl: I try SO hard not to put people on "ignore" but this post has shown that there are those who may be unable to control their bitterness and can't stop sniping or ever admit that there is a time to back off. I have bad days and you do too, but some seem to have very few good days. I try to be about compassion and forgiveness as a liberal, but those who cannot stop attacking give me a bad feeling and perhaps they ought to be ignored - as much as I loath doing this.

Anyway, please feel free to post as you will (haha) here - what's a good liberal discussion board if some feel they cannot participate without being Freeped to death. I, for one, will keep fighting for anyone who is a good liberal - even if they make mistakes from time to time. I'll never ever post a gushing support post, but I'll cover your back when I sense an unfair attack on you or anyone who I believe has the best interest of this community at heart.

You're as good a DUer and anyone here - and thanks for the DU history lesson, I didn't happen upon this place until March of 2004 and I was not aware of some of the highlights of the "before" time.

Good luck and post as often as you want - I like the hearing your opinion within posts as much as I appreciate your articles/essays.

Knowledge is power and we need all we can get these days.

[motocicleta]

281. I am responding without reading any of the responses.

Because I want to respond without being influenced by anyone else here.

I say: I appreciate the sentiment, but you didn't have to apologize in the first place. I was not the target of your anger, but I have certainly been a cretin and a fuckwit in my own right, so who was I to get pissy about you using that kind of language? You have earned the right to have a temper tantrum, and not only that, you deserved to be pissed the way the mouthbreathers (yes, you, _________) were piling on you.

I appreciate the history, because I haven't been here that long, and I say WilliamPitt is inspiring me to change my screenname to MattEthridge. Nobody's perfect, but ... we need all the warriors we can get in this fight, and I've got your back.

[Sydnie]

284. Fight on Will.

I have to admire the fact that you have the courage of your convictions. That's what back bone looks like. Don't ever let anyone wrestle that from you.

As your signature implies, ignore the few here that are praying for your retreat, be thankful for those that will push and prod when necessary, but for now, lead on. :hi:

Great to see you posting again. Screw lurk mode, RAVE on!

[dalaigh lllama]

288. Thank goodness you're back, Will

Your posts are always worth a read. I sure wish I had known about DU back in 2001. I was a ten-per-center and didn't even know it. (on 9/11 one of my first thoughts was, "OMG, and we've got an idiot for a president!") As to your apology and its phrasing -- it was right on. No need to apologize to most and certainly no need to apologize to the hammerheads.

I've read your post and these threads with interest. I don't use my ignore button; I keep a list of posters whose 'opinions' seem to weigh in on the "I've come here for a good argument (Monty Python)" side -- I try to steer clear of them. I've noticed the few I've clicked on have disabled profiles, which seems ... curious. It also seemed rather, um, freeperish, that some just couldn't handle all that reading -- perhaps you used too many big words. Some were confused by the use of "I" in a first person narrative. Others who sneeringly call your supporters "cult worshipers" just come off as petty and jealous. All in all, it's certainly been an edifying thread. C'est la vie.

I'm sure you can tell by now that most of us are happy to see you back. Take care, and keep fighting the good fight.

[Catrina]

345. The disabled profilers are indeed curious. It's humorous to see them

demand the truth. I did ask one of them how long they had been on DU, but sadly, even that simple question was not answered. To not be willing to tell the truth about how long you've been posting on a message board, and expect others to take you seriously when you expound about 'credibility' and 'truth' is hilariously funny, imo. :rofl:

I give them the credibility as they deserve.

[Name removed]

294. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BrklynLiberal]

296. Thank you for taking the time to put all that into writing Will. It was a

incredible read. :thumbsup: :hi:

You were here when I joined, and helped make DU that great place it is, so please consider stopping by frequently.

[tavalon]

297. Good to hear back from you

I thought perhaps you had given up on your little band of circularly firing miscreants.

I pray that in the work I do, I don't become famous like you, because to a lesser extent, in another life, I did have the fame and I can say just as safely as Angelina Jolie that it sucks. Yeah, you get to wield a little more power and maybe a garner a little more respect but more often people are just waiting for you to fuck up, in other words dare to come off the pedestal they've placed you on and be human. Nope, don't want that gig ever again.

I'm with one of my partners of almost five years partially because one of his first comments to his other partner upon watching my entourage (mostly not of my making, some was. I wasn't completely without culpability any more than Brangelina), said, "Terri Avalon, she ain't all that!" He did take a second look when the limelight wasn't directly on and figured out that in a totally different way, I was all that. And so are you, but most will not look past the bright lights and that sucks for you (IMHO and YMMV and all that).

I've watched you for not as long as you've been here. Hell, I got here via a recommendation at the back of one of your fine books and I've always seen a fairly normally fucked up, fiery orator who would have been happier being an unknown whilst also enjoying the fame and so it goes. It is quite the weird thing, isn't it?

I'm glad to see you'll wait them out. They will get tired of the silliness.

[RandomKoolzip]

298. What, no Grateful Dead lyrics?

[grasswire]

301. as I've always said....

....if a Democratic candidate for president would hire Will Pitt as a speechwriter, we'd be a lot more likely to win a landslide victory.

[Kire]

302. So what are you apologizing for?

You don't apologize to the people you flipped out on, and you didn't flip out on the people you are apologizing to. How does this make amends to anybody?

[Me.]

309. You Could Have Made The Wrong Type Of Apology

But you didn't. A little levity.

Just Keep Quiet and Nobody Will Notice
by Ogden Nash

There is one thing that ought to be taught in all the colleges,
Which is that people ought to be taught not to go around always making apologies.
I don't mean the kind of apologies people make when they run over you or borrow five dollars or step on your feet,
Because I think that is sort of sweet;
No, I object to one kind of apology alone,
Which is when people spend their time and yours apologizing for everything they own.
You go to their house for a meal,
And they apologize because the anchovies aren't caviar or the partridge is veal;
They apologize privately for the crudeness of the other guests,
And they apologize publicly for their wife's housekeeping or their husband's jests;
If they give you a book by Dickens they apologize because it isn't by Scott,
And if they take you to the theater, they apologize for the acting and the dialogue and the plot;
They contain more milk of human kindness than the most capacious diary can,
But if you are from out of town they apologize for everything local and if you are a foreigner they apologize for everything American.
I dread these apologizers even as I am depicting them,
I shudder as I think of the hours that must be spend in contradicting them,
Because you are very rude if you let them emerge from an argument victorious,
And when they say something of theirs is awful, it is your duty to convince them politely that it is magnificent and glorious,
And what particularly bores me with them,
Is that half the time you have to politely contradict them when you rudely agree with them,
So I think there is one rule every host and hostess ought to keep with the comb and nail file and bicarbonate and aromatic spirits on a handy shelf,
Which is don't spoil the denouement by telling the guests everything is terrible, but let them have the thrill of finding it out for themselves.

[Joe Fields]

311. Apology accepted. Time to move forward and concentrate on the

serious shit that's happened to OUR country by that madman that occupies the White House part time.

Oh, one more thing. I, too use my real name because I don't believe in hiding behind anonymity. Anonymity makes it awfully easy to lob verbal hand grenades, and in general act with some very poor manners. We should all treat each other with respect.

[CrackpotAmerica]

319. You were also here for,,

The many and growing of late times that you have berated or otherwise stood above (in your own Id) countless other members of the Democratic Underground. Worse, you have done it in reckless regard and without apology because of your own frustration.

On several occasions, you have blanketed the entire forum with accusations that imply that none of us lifts a finger while you are some maverick out to save the world despite our supposed "innate and do-nothing" nature. And now, you return; and just as I expected, you come bringing no tangible apology. Rather, you return with an outline of how long you have "been around," thus, the assertion by us do-nothings should be nothing short of complacent ignorance of the innumerable examples of your quest to serve your ego above using your talents to fulfill the true purpose of this site.

I, for one, am through with you, Mr. Pitt. You have clearly shown me your complete lack of substance. Once one knows, all that is left is for one to move on; far away from the likes of you.

[mortlefaucheur]

324. CrackpotMurKKKan. I think you're takin this

way too personal.
Read yourself...
I'm too new to have a serious dog in this fight, but just make sure you're being fair to everyone

[CrackpotAmerica]

326. I am fully confident in

what I have said..


Welcome to DU!

:)

[mortlefaucheur]

340. Word. Long thread;

and thanks for the welcome to DU!

[kath]

325. Will, do you have a link for your "Not My President" piece from the

REAL "day that everything changed", AKA Dec 12 2000? (Tried Google, no luck)

Also, thanks for the link to your piece about VoterMarch. I planned a trip to DC in May 2001 with my two young daughters and hubby specifically so that we could attend that protest. Reading your piece brought back good memories of that day.

Welcome back!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

328. Good post Will. I've always enjoyed reading your stuff.

I'm sure your story will pan out eventually. Regardless, even though I've been here for about as long as you, I wasn't around enough to remember most of that stuff. It was a good read. I agree with a couple of the above posters that suggested you get an alter-ego. Get an anonynous name and play around in the lounge. Fight in GD with no lasting consequence of pissing people off. Be Will Pitt when you truly have something important. When you just want to be a regular DUer, use your "secret" name.

[Name removed]

331. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mortlefaucheur]

342. You exercise a judicious economy of words. n/t

[hopeisaplace]

335. Do you know what's on my TV right now: Jerry McGuire

I like your mission statement :applause:

I'm fairly new to DU. I did not follow the posts/threads you had this anguish
over but I did read the post about Rove being indicted..and believe it. With all
that is covered up, just another to the list. This up-is-down administration has
my head spinning.


edit: typo

[Catherine Vincent]

339. Unbelievable.

Some of the comments on this thread. I guess there's no pleasing everybody.

Sad.

[Canuckistanian]

341. Don't know what all that fuss was about in the first place

Didn't care. I'm in a calm and serene place, just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

If Leopold and truthout stand by it, so do I.

I saw no need to turn this place into the Donner Party.

Welcome back Will, you were missed and will be whenever you're gone.

:toast:
:hi:

[pitohui]

344. the truth out story abt karl rove being indicted was false

none of the fancy dancing matters

none of the saying you feel personally affronted matters

the only thing that matters is that the story was false and that you have chosen not to correct it and to say, even now, when way more than "24 business hours" has passed, that you stand by a story proven to be false

everyone makes a mistake

but since to keep saying an untruth is true and to keep broadcasting it under the name of "truthout," that is sad

i am sorry that it has come to this, i really am, but that's one blog off my reading list, i can get unsubstantiated rumors and more entertaining ones just about everywhere on the internet

your readers deserve better, will, they honestly do

i feel like i was one of your first readers, but i can't support this

you screwed up big time, not just the cursing people out at random, which was bad behavior enough, but you are still not confronting the real issue which is, to wit, karl rove has not been indicted

we do not have star chambers in this country for rich white men, mr rove has not been disappeared, he is just fine and going about his business as usual, and in any case indictments are a matter of public court record and we would know about it

sheesh we are not idiots you know, may 12, june 3, wtf? how long are you going to pretend you didn't screw up by publishing an inaccurate story?

trust is broken and it makes me very, very sad

[goodboy]

350. LOL, "fuckwits" Hey Pitt, everyone gets theirs. Everyone.

Welcome Back.

[Jigarotta]

353. collecting emails in case the internet shuts down? wtf?!

""People here back then really, truly felt like they were working an "underground" back then. (Sidebar: after 9/11, we were all worried that the whole internet would get shut down in some draconian recinding-of-posse-commitatus lockdown, and so I organized a collection of email addresses in the event DU went down, so we could all keep in touch. Yeah, it was that important, and that scary, back then)""

wohoa!
missed that one on first read.

erm, huh?

[Wonk]

357. He said "DU" not "the internet". nt

[Jigarotta]

362. we were all worried that the whole internet would get shut down

actually, I'm more worried about minds being shut down.

those are the words.

[Name removed]

356. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Philosoraptor]

386. It is becoming a cult of sorts.

A cult of personality, in which the cult leader absorbs the love of the cultees.

[Mr_Spock]

402. I think you are implying that a majority of DUers are mindless "culties"

...to use your vernacular.

Would you expect the majority of us who are capable of separating the wheat from the the shaff to find that statement insulting?

[Philosoraptor]

406. 385 out of 90,000 is not a majority

Surely not even Will realistically expect everyone to agree with him 100% of the time, and those who don't are automatically labelled freepers or haters or disrupters.

[Mr_Spock]

411. You smartly dropped your "cult" descriptor in your reply

...and you focused on an unprovable argument about the opinions of those who haven't posted in this thread. Surely you realize that a clear majority here are smart enough to differentiate between a simple disagreement versus a bunch of angry people who pursue Will and attack him whenever he posts. One thing is for certain, those 10-15 people who scream the loudest do not represent a majority here. When one thinks as they peruse this thread "ah, I was wondering when "xxxxx" was going to check in with his/her vile hatred spewing", you know there's a clearly recognizable minority here who have a vendetta. It is the right of all DUers to speak their mind so I have no issue per se with this, just realize that this "pattern" is easily recognizable to many of us who post here often. I don't like it - how does it make the opponents any better than the poster? I detect hypocrisy.

[Philosoraptor]

413. This is the only Pitt post I've ever attacked, &just for being long winded

And for the cult like adoration of the name.

It's like Bill Maher used to say to Prince, "get over yourself".

[renate]

365. THANK YOU, Skinner and Elad and EarlG AND WilliamPitt

Thank you for this refuge. I love you guys. When good karma was handed out, you guys each got a bowlful. God (or the Universe or the deity of your choice) bless you.

[Jazz2006]

367. Putting Skinner, Elad and EarlG in the same sentence as Pitt seems

rather disrespectful to the first three.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but, geez, the admins here ought not be lumped in with the ego-pitt as though they were interchangeable.

[Philosoraptor]

375. As if he were one of the mods and creators of DU.

Glad you mentioned this, cause it happens way too frequently.

[Jazz2006]

377. Of course, he isn't and wasn't.

He only wishes he was.

Much like he only wishes that his existence has or had anything to do with the success of DU.

The way I read it - having read years worth of history here - Mr. Ego (aka PItt) owes a huge debt of gratitude to Skinner, Elad and EarlG, not the other way around.

[Hekate]

368. Hey Will. Welcome back. Now how DO I get to those ancient archives?

Seriously on both counts.

I'm sorry there was a feeding frenzy here -- I hate it when that happens, because it's ugly and senseless and it makes me fear for the future of DU. I'm especially sorry it was about you and about the Rove indictment that hasn't happened yet. I'm waiting; I can be patient; there's no use trying to push the river.

As to the original archives: a couple of times I've tried to get to the foundational documents (January 2000) and to the 9-11 documents, but have not been able to get that far back. :shrug: I want to somehow experience a bit of the flavor of those times here, because I still remember how alone I felt then.

In any case, I'm really glad to hear from you. :hug:

Hekate

[malaise]

376. Will from I joined DU in 2004

I have always looked forward to your posts. And yes you are human so I take the great with the good, bad and ugly. You are a wise man who loves both your country and humanity. I hope you continue to post.

I still believe Rove will be indicted.

[Tarheel_Dem]

381. Thanks Will & Welcome Back....

your well reasoned & well written posts is what keeps some of us coming back. Please don't stop posting here. It's almost as much fun watching the heads of your detractors explode, as it is to read your thoughtful posts.

:toast:

[Barad Simith]

382. Will, you should write a "biography" of DU

The Democratic Underground by William Rivers Pitt. Just the title would make one pick it up to see what it's about.

The first chapter could open with the counter-inaugural demonstration, then some back story on yourself and the three adminos, and then a chronological retelling of the history of this place up to the book's publication. End it with To Be Continued.

Much of what has happened just since I joined in 2003 would make compelling reading, not to mention all the pre-Barad events you related here.

I don't know how many copies a book has to sell to get noticed, but it seems like an Amazon link through a DU banner ad could reap sales of 10,000 in the first week. I'm guessing there are that many DUers who would want a copy right away. But the title would provoke curiosity (remember, to many of those who have never heard of DU, the idea of a "Democratic Underground" would be an intriguing pull) in bookstore browsers and talk-show hosts, and coupled with those initial DU sales, the book could rise in prominence very quickly.

[madokie]

383. Thanks for getting my day started off on a good foot, so to say

as my mother would say, If you are afraid to take chances you will never amount to a hill of beans. I try to make it a point to ignore threads that take on a personal tone so I didn't read of your plight, all I knew was I quit seeing and reading post by you. Glad to see you are still on this ship called the bush* train wreck and are going to continue to help us in stopping what seems to be the inevitable. I love, I like and only for bush* can I find hate.
peace
:yourock:

[Cooley Hurd]

385. Apology accepted...

...although none was needed.

I still believe the Truthout story was correct, however, circumstances in the Rove matter (add'l testimony - perhaps from Armitage, more dealings between Luskin and Fitz) might've changed and the original indictment was postponed. It's possible and plausible.

Glad you're back :hi: - what a strange few weeks it's been, eh?:crazy:

387. I have have entertained the fantasy in my mind a couple of times

of being able to hire my own courtroom with judge and jury to listen to certain wrongs that were done against me, and then I could have the court rule on it, and their would be an airing out and corroboration of the wrong that was done. I think maybe some of the people who go to such great lengths to chase you around to force you to retract or apologize are trying to set up their own courtroom to get satisfaction. Takes a lot of energy to do that, but for some it must be worth it.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

388. Thanks Will

I appreciate you.

DTH

[zippy890]

392. I like the ' hammerhead sharks could take

feeding frenzy lessons from you'
:rofl:

thats very apt and funny description.

I've enjoyed your articles and posts over the years. Hope you keep
posting them here.

[Philosoraptor]

393. 400 replies, 80 recommendations, wow.

Pretty amazing actually.

[FlaGranny]

394. I've been here as long as you, WillPitt,

and I've seen you freak out on more than one occasion and be an asshole, but I've never disagreed with your reasons for being one. :-)

There ARE a handful here whose only joy in life seems to be to belittle and insult others and you have a target painted on your back because you have worked hard and become "famous." What do you think these people would do to any number of "famous" people who might post here? Same thing. Makes you wonder the reasons for some posters being here in the first place. Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, John Edwards would ALL be given the same treatment. I've often felt that any well-known person would have to be crazy to try to contribute to DU. If any are here, you can bet they're incognito.

[Caretha]

399. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Somewhere in the last couple of years.....
I became a name.
I worked very.......
I did my........
I wouldn't be .........
I decided to .......
I could.

I am not like you.........
between you and me........
I signed .......
I was........
I had the ........

I had to decide .........
I had decided that.......
I was going .......
I signed up.........

I can certainly be........
I have qualified........
I sign my ........
I do.........
I have it in the back of my..........
I do good,
I do so...........
I blow........
I do so under my ........
I were another

Oh the Drama! And that's just 4 paragraphs. Mr. Pitt I have a read some of your posts, surely you can write better than this.

[ShadesOfGrey]

404. Talk about a nitpicky post!

Sheesh! Would you prefer he spoke for someone other than himself?

[arwalden]

420. That Would Be A Good Start

[Mr_Spock]

408. You're a great critic

Have you ever thought of becoming a professional critic?

:smoke:

[arwalden]

423. I Think Caretha Would Make A Better EDITOR!!

Clearly the OP is in DIRE need of an editor. Quantity does not equal QUALITY. Being brief, concise, and getting to the point quickly are always pluses.

[Philosoraptor]

426. One paragraph would have been fine.

He should maybe try decaf.

[union_maid]

400. Messageboards do get us going

There's something about them. More than blogs. More than op-eds. More than almost anything. And they attract fuckwits and assholes and they bring out our inner asshole sometimes, too.

And while this place is santuary on the one hand - no freepers allowed - on the other there's no one to eat but our own. Where we'd be standing together elsewhere, we fight with each other here. I don't think I posted much - or maybe at all - on the subject of the original article and steered clear of the real fighting about it. I'm hoping it's true and if you say that it is, that carries a lot of weight. I reserve judgement only because of the incredible and terrible power that the Bush/Rove cabal has held. I don't put it past them to be able to undo something that's a done deal. Isn't that how they win elections?

One part of your post makes me feel cautiously optimistic. It's the part that reminds me of how just being a Democrat could make you feel like you were part of an underground resistance for a while there. Hence, "Democratic Underground". It was so appropriate. Even during the 2004 election, if someone driving by saw my Kerry bumper sticker it would result in honking and frenzied waving. Even though my county did go for Kerry, we still felt isolated and alone in this country. And now we wait to see whether the architect of that situation has been indicted or is merely tarnished. It's hard to feel happy about much that's happening in this country now, but that, at least, bodes better for the future.

[helderheid]

407. I was in Europe and on vacation from DU when you "freaked out"

So I missed it. I drank champagne when the TO report came out. I'm not sure what happened afterwards - as I said, I took off and took a much needed break from DU (no offense to DU - just sometimes all the bad news can really suck your soul dry if you let it).

I am certainly guilty of the following:

"The sticky part came when I forgot that I could no longer be "just another DUer" and couldn't let fly whenever I chose. You know what I mean, because if you've spent any time here, you've done this. Yes, you have. You get angry about the news, the state of things, some Democratic failure to act, and maybe you get a glass of wine into you, and you flame away on the keyboard...and then come back the next day hoping nobody remembers or gives a damn that you were throwing haymakers and acting the fool."

Good to see you here, Will.

[AngryAmish]

409. This is a very long thread

[Bamboose]

412. thank you for posting this

Will, you and I have never had an exchange, but I've followed your progress with considerable interest, and I admire you for having the stones this demonstrates you have.

[laylah]

424. ...

:hug:

Laylah

[many a good man]

429. A glass of wine and a bucketful of spleen make a healthful tonic

Especially in these trying times, as long as its not overdone. We should all be allowed to vent when necessary. It would be a crying shame if you allow the curse of celebrity to inhibit your writing here.

Those of us who imbibe this tonic from time to time should be distinguished from the perpetual "Spleenies." They are toxic to any discussion and exist merely to inflate their own egos under the guise of deflating others'. When others protest their acidity they falsely assert that its their opinion under attack, not their tone.

Under our cloaks of anonymity many of us tend to push the envelope a lot further than we would in a face to face conversation. A sensationalistic, toxic post is more likely to gather attention than a reasoned and thoughtful one. Unless you already a DU celebrity.

I fully support the notion that we should all speak brutally honestly and from the heart. We should be ourselves and not fake it for someone else's approval. The only problem with that, however, is when our true "self" is toxic.

[mike_c]

430. well said, Mr. Pitt....

Well said.

[Semblance]

431. Rove

You (and Leopold and TO) simply have not properly responded to the Rove story that TO published. Large numbers of important, serious and logical objections have been raised that make the story very difficult to believe. Yet all we get is "we are standing by the story". That's not good enough. Respect will only be earned when TO publishes a detailed response to the objections.

[robbedvoter]

432. DU was founded because of the STOLEN ELECTION 2000

before there was even a forum to speak of, this was the one place where I could read the truth about the steal. I knew there were some glaring omissions in your history - but only now, posting about Kerry's concession I remembered. I know why you would forget it too - you weren't big on Gore at the time and ask me once to explain to you in what ways he would have been different than Bush...
That didn't happen on DU though, but on a Gore Abroad yahoo list.
I'm not one of your personal enemies - in fact I rather support you, TO and Leopold in this whole brouhaha (whatever the reality I KNOW there was good faith in reporting).
But you wrote the history - wrote it well - and it's interesting. You just skipped the beginning.
It was not the Japanese boat, it was the stolen election 2000. I just didn't want this to get lost - as it's so very relevant still.

[usrbs]

433. You're our brother in arms,

one of the best and one of the most committed. Having been here almost as long as you, but hardly ever posting, let alone being invited into any special club, I will make an exception to my no-posting policy to welcome you back. You put more of yourself than most into this, and that means we get to see a lot of your whole self, which includes passion, wrong turns, and very little holding back. To those that insist on cynicism and refusal to give up grudges, I can only say give it a rest.

And as my brother-in-arms, I'm right behind you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

434. Will

You've done some great work. You've also discredited some of it by forgetting that your very public persona also demands a higher threshold of responsibility for what you post.
That said, any criticism I've ever had of you, your work, and your posts has never been personal.

I hated when you posted concerns about the Andy deal because I felt you could have confirmed that in person rather than start a DU thread thereby making others who contributed concerned when, in fact, given that he ultimately died, the mission was real...in fact, that whole ordeal to me is where you have the higher threshold of responsibility. Some posters could challenge Andy's illness and the general response would have been STFU, but when you challenged it, many might have followed you into the abyss and removed their support.

As to the rest of this thread, it's pretty clear some will hate you no matter what you do or say...oh well.

[Moderator]

436. locking.....

All that has to be said has been said.