According to some pentagon guy on NPR., 99.9% of the GI's in Iraq

[The_Casual_Observer]

and good wholesome americans. They had better round up those 130 bad guys right away!

[Roland99]

1. IMO, it's probably true. Throwing young kids into impossible situations

will change them in drastic ways, sometimes for the worse.

I've never been in the military but just stories I've heard and read the stress and danger of war can wreak havoc on the psyche.

There's a reason Marines are so tough. They're put in first in any situation and are trained to kill, kill, kill. That's a good thing to have when our nation's security is truly on the line.

What we have now, though, is an extended police action where our troops are massively undernumbered to maintain the proper level of security so they end up playing whack-a-mole from city to city. Marines are meant to move in and wipe out an enemy so infantry and support can come up from behind and takeover. They're being misused and left in Iraq for tour after tour after tour.

We all owe a great deal of respect to every member of our armed forces but not a lick for the fucking pricks in the Pentagon and the White House that have put them there.

[screembloodymurder]

2. I agree.

Anyone could crack under the circumstances. It's Bush/Cheney that should be on trial. IMO, these Marines served their country and their superiors let them down. Let Bush,Cheney, and Rumsfeld serve the prison term.

[Marie26]

7. We need military police there.

Why are Marines the ones doing the patrols, arrests, etc? They're supposed to kill people, not enforce laws. It seems like the training they get is all wrong for the job they're expected to do.

[Roland99]

8. We need no one there. Let the Iraqis handle it.

Or, at most, NATO/UN troops.

[Marie26]

11. That's ideal

But it doesn't look like we're withdrawing troops anytime soon. And I don't understand why Marines are expected to do jobs they were never trained to do. Didn't they think they'd need police forces if they're going to occupy a country? I do think things would be better, at least, if we had military police or peacekeeper-types doing this kind of work. Marines are trained to shoot, not police, right? It's like Abu Ghraib, where National Guard reserves were expected to guard a maximum-security prison. Maybe, some of the abuses wouldn't have happened if trained Army prison guards were handling it instead. It seems like the combination of inexperienced troops, overwhelming jobs, & inadequate training lead to a situation where abuses like this are bound to happen.

[Roland99]

12. There's a LOT of things that are just FUBARd over there.

Using traffic control companies to be prison guards at what was already an infamous prison under Saddam (Abu Ghraib) and giving them commands to "soften up" detainees before interrogation.

The whack-a-mole strategery I mentioned above.

Ad nauseum.


As for not pulling troops out, there never was a plan. Just a redeployment to the four large permanent bases or, perhaps, in strategic areas near the Iranian border to prepare for the next phase of war.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Some are on their THIRD tours of close combat.

Anyone would crack under those circumstances.

As tragic as this situation is, I am reluctant to make judgement calls.

[Sammy Pepys]

4. Maybe "99.9%" is an exagerration...

....but I'm willing to bet the actual number is pretty close. 100% of the people I know that serve or have served (and it's a pretty good amount) are about the most stand-up, honorable people you could ever meet.

[lectrobyte]

5. They may well be. But look up the Sanford Prison Experiment, as

someone posted here, or the Milgard experiments, just to get an idea of what "good wholesome americans" are capable of in the right circumstances.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. The statement struck me as naive and condescending.

It is fairly clear that the pentagon has lost control of the situation in Iraq and appears to be covering up these events as fast as they occur. Tossing out a rhetorical 99.9% figure is bullshit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. They seem to fail to mention...

that everybody in the chain of command who helped defend this and cover it up is guilty, which was, apparently, everybody in the chain of command.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. If that's true, then it doesn't say much about America's "values".

If "good wholesome Americans" are willing to invade another country, follow illegal orders, subjugate the people, or kill them on command "legally", we are lost beyond redemption.