Bush Policy Chief Wished For ‘Very Loud Explosion Very Nearby’ Journalists

[kpete]

Bush’s Domestic Policy Chief Wished Upon Iraq Journalists a ‘Very Loud Explosion Very Nearby’
Karl Zinsmeister, Bush’s new domestic policy adviser, 3/28/03:

Alas, many of the journalists observable in this war theater are bursting with knee-jerk suspicions and antagonisms for the warriors all around them. A significant number are whiny and appallingly soft. I almost wished there would be a very loud explosion very nearby just to shut up their rattling.

Reuters, today:

With the deaths of two CBS television crew members from a car bomb in Baghdad, the number of journalists who have died in hostile incidents in Iraq has risen to 71 - the same number killed or presumed dead during the Vietnam War.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/iraq-reporters/

[democrank]

1. Sometimes I just can`t dig up words

fit for a response. Sure....let`s have a very loud explosion, Mr. Safe and Secure Zinmeister.

[librechik]

2. Agent Mike, (Baghdad station) "Your wish is my command, sir"

I'm just sayin. The attack happened in the most secure spot in Iraq. No one would ever know.

[devinsgram]

3. When are people going to learn that

what you say always comes back to bite you in the a**. Only a truly evil and ignorant person would make a statement like that.

[central scrutinizer]

4. there's that old compassionate conservatism again

warms the cockles of my heart

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[farmbo]

6. Brawk...brawk...brawk! Chickenhawk Alert!

Another rear echelon type trying to show how tough he is by wishing harm on the front liners.

[Pacifist Patriot]

7. *sigh*

[Minnesota_Lib]

8. here is Zinsmeister's bio...you will note the very same lack....

...of military service as the rest of the neo-convicts. But it sure seems like writing up moving tributes to our fighting men and women gives this chickenhawk a major boner. Guilt?

http://www.tcc.edu/news/press/2006/releases/Biography-KarlZinsmeister.htm

[baldguy]

9. Why am I not surprised?

If any of the wimpy warriors in the GOP came within 50 miles of a situation that might actually threaten them with physical harm they'd lose their mind - and their bowels.

[stepnw1f]

12. More Meritless Neo-Cons in a Position They Can't Handle (nt)

[lectrobyte]

19. Thanks, I was pretty sure he had to be a chickenhawk.

10. I wonder if they will be more conservative in sending out reporters

You could see how Bob Schieffer and Lara Logan were both in a kind of shock over the death of their colleagues.

[maxrandb]

11. Yet the MSM will continue carrying water for this mis-administration

They're like the abusive spouse returning again and again to the abuser in the hopes that this time will be different.

"Did Tina Turner say to Ike, hit me again, and this time put some stank on it!" - Jim Carey

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. rw dickless idiots are always wanting to kill somebody.

Some violent shit always the answer for them. It's always, "They ought to fuck that guy over real good".
However, when it comes right down to it, they are the first to go running to mama.

[Aviation Pro]

14. March this bastard and any offspring he has....

...directly down to the nearest recruiting office (Army or Marines). Give them one option infantry and one theatre Iraq. Send them to training at Ft. Benning or Camp LeJeune and then PCS 'em to Baghdad to an appropriate unit. On their first day in-country stick a rifle in their hand and tell them that they are now permenant point men for the duration of their tour(s).

I want to waylay this bastard so bad I can taste it.

[struggle4progress]

15. And on 8 April 03, a US tank fired on the Palestine Hotel in Bagdad

(then home to most foreign journalists in the city), killing cameramen José Couso and Taras Protsyuk; on the same day, a US missile hit Al-Jazeera's bureau in Bagdad, killing Tareq Ayyoub.

"Al-Jazeera officials pointed out that the U.S. military had been given the bureau's exact coordinates weeks before the war began ... Moments later, Abu Dhabi TV staff on the roof came under machine gun fire from a U.S. tank on the nearby Jumhuriyya Bridge, and one of their three unmanned cameras was struck by a shell, staff told CPJ. The three-story building was marked with a large banner labeled 'Abu Dhabi TV'" http://www.cpj.org/killed/killed_archives/2003_list.html

[xxqqqzme]

16. THIS is domestic policy???

Well, heads up everyone. We know what is coming at us domestically.

[Tsiyu]

17. Ooh! I bet he has a really BIG set

That there is real MANLY MAN talk!

BLOW UP STUFF! Kill! Death! Loud noises!

Jeebus Gawd is SO PROUD of these manly fuckers. :eyes:

[Liberal OIF Vet]

18. The nerve....

This idiot has never heard a shot fired in anger, yet he wants to blow up a bunch of journalist for not marching lockstep with this madness. Amazing.

[Borgnine]

20. Nothing these people say surprise me anymore.

It's gotten to the point where I'm almost apathetic to how apalling they all are.

[jrw14125]

21. think I prefer the shoplifter to the new guy

[twaddler01]

22. words elude me

:eyes:

[SunDrop23]

23. So then is it okay, for me to wish..

a loudmouth I am acquainted with in the US Navy who has virtually no chance of combat duty actually getting assigned over there and catching a large piece of shrapnel to the face so he can better understand what the people (such as my brother) who are in the thick of it are going through?

It sure sounds that way.

[G Rap]

24. the headline versus the actual Zin quote

The lack of intellectual honesty is utterly amazing. So many posters just hopping on the bandwagon that Zin actually wished harm upon journalists and no one is even questioning the headline. Like Lemmings to the sea...

Even if you put his quote in context, Zinsmeister ONLY said that "I almost wished there would be a very loud explosion very nearby just to shut up their rattling."

For those who missed it, the operative word is ALMOST. Get off your high horse...

[HughBeaumont]

26. Hope that pizza tastes good . . .

He's espousing warhawk sentiments light years away from battle towards innocent people who did nothing to him. THAT'S what the point is, soon to be marble row'd.

[Chiyo-chichi]

27. You are funny.

It was a deplorable thing to say. The "almost" is akin to Ann Coulter adding "that was a joke" after suggesting that a Supreme Court justice should be murdered. It was still deplorable.

Note to Zinsmeister Meister-Zinner: It's not the journalists who are the problem here.

[Shakespeare]

28. Using the word "almost" in NO way mitigates the ugliness of what he said.

Zinsmeister's use of a hedge word in that statement does not lessen its ugliness or its impact, and there is NOTHING intellectually dishonest going on in this thread aside from your pathetic attempt to make excuses for that statement.

That's a doozie of a first post. Welcome to DU. :sarcasm:

Enjoy the view from YOUR high horse, however long it lasts.

[G Rap]

33. "hedge" word DOES modify

Of course the word "almost" lessens the ugliness of the statement. A statement must be placed in context or anyone can be made to look horrible.

Also, why would you defend everyone else in the thread by claiming that "there is NOTHING intellectually dishonest going on in this thread?" (except me of course)

How about (1) librechik implying that a quote in 2003 actually instigated the car bomb killing the CBS people --- "Agent Mike, (Baghdad station) "Your wish is my command, sir" -- "I'm just sayin. The attack happened in the most secure spot in Iraq. No one would ever know."

How about (2) devil... "Only a truly evil and ignorant person would make a statement like that."


Both of these exampkle seems pretty devoid of intellectual honesty to me. As soon as I (or anyone for that matter) stray too far from the group think I get lambasted. All I said was that Zin DID qualify his statement by using the word "ALMOST"

[Shakespeare]

34. No, it doesn't lessen the ugliness, because the intent is the same.

It's really, really stretching the bounds of logic to suggest that adding one hedge word to such a specious statement alters the context in any significant way. It doesn't.

There's intellectual dishonesty, and there's hyperbole used for rhetorical emphasis (see librechik's comment). I suggest you learn the difference between the two.

As for your second example, I happen to agree with him. Only a despicable person would make such a statement.

And no, you didn't just innocently offer up your statement in the interest of clarification; you were attempting to excuse his statement. You reinforce that with you "high horse" and "intellectual dishonesty" comments.

[G Rap]

35. the words speak for themselves - but the context tells the story

It is not "stretching the bounds of logic" to show how words in a sentence modify other words (which actually express thoughts...) ALSO, how is Zin's statement specious? I think you're misusing that word...

I gave you examples of intellectually dishonest arguments and you fail to address. How is a conspiracy theory hyperbole? I was wondering why you'd defend that post and yet after I point it out to you you still defend it.

I guess after 1000+ posts you cannot fathom that BushCo (and anything associated) is anything other than pure evil. My refusal to drink your kool aid is pissing you off and you forget my original point. Also, I almost forgot.... Zin also said he wished the explosion would be "NEARBY." This also modifies the statement to show no actual malice toward journalists ---- just a wish that they would recognize/remember the danger that the troops are facing.

[Shakespeare]

36. Yes, I most certainly did address that.

Both of them specifically, in fact. Perhaps you should re-read my response.

Adding the single word "almost" does not alter the context. It's a hedge word. It's a rhetorical device meant to blunt the harshness of what he said, but does not change the overall intent.

You're not "refusing to drink koolaid," you're making excuses for an administration official who made an extraordinarily ugly statement about hardworking journalists. I encourage you to ponder the difference. Wishing a bomb would blow up in somebody's face--even if from a relative distance--is something NO government official should say. Ever.

And I assure you, those journalists know exactly the dangers that exist out there. They're in the middle of it.

I suggest you get that newbie chip off your shoulder and step away from the "context" argument, since the addition of that word doesn't alter the context at all. Maybe you should look up the definition of "context," because I suspect you don't fully understand it. As for my grasp of vocabulary, I have an MA in English, so I'm quite secure in my understanding of the language.

[G Rap]

41. nice MA

How is Zin's statement "specious?"

Also, how does someone wish for a bomb to "blow up in somebody's face--even if from a relative distance--...?" If it's from a "relative distance" than it CANNOT be in "somebody's face."

I guess your know what "specious means" even if you choose to use it inappropriately in a sentence.

[WinkyDink]

45. Yap, yap, yap. And don't think your vocabulary is impressive anywhere but

Freeperville.

[Shakespeare]

46. LOL!! What, pray tell, is a safe distance?

And you're leaving out the key part of his statement: that he wants the bomb to blow up CLOSE ENOUGH to "shut them up." NOW who's being intellectually dishonest?

Zin's statement is specious. It's also outrageous, despicable, inexcusable, inappropriate, vicious, malicious, and...I can keep going, you know....

[G Rap]

47. All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious and NOT

jumping off the cliff with everone...

Websters ONLINE = Specious:Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, visually pleasing, from Latin speciosus beautiful, plausible, from species
1 obsolete : SHOWY
2 : having deceptive attraction or allure
3 : having a false look of truth or genuineness : SOPHISTIC
- spe·cious·ly adverb
- spe·cious·ness noun

Dictionary.com = spe·cious adj.
Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.
Deceptively attractive.

I am worried that because MAs are a dime a dozen their worth is compeltely devalued.

[Shakespeare]

48. How, exactly, is anyone here "jumping off the cliff?"

Zinsmeister absolutely should be taken to task for his comment, and there's nothing "obvious" about throwing in a hedge word like "almost" or "nearby." Again, you are not mitigating what he's said (though you clearly believe that you are).

And I very deliberately chose the word "specious," and here's why, since you seem devoid of understanding. It is specious, because it presumes that the journalists in the field in Iraq have no concept of the dangers the troops face, and that they simply need to experience what life is like over there to better understand. That is the "deceptive attraction" of his statement. Why? Because those very journalists he's so annoyed with are right in the middle of the action, too--they're in danger there, just as the troops are. We're approaching the century count on the number of journalists we've lost over there since the bogus war began; when one compares that proportionately to the number of journalists in Iraq v. the number of troops in Iraq, it is representationally on the same scale.

Now, go ahead and insult me again, and I'll hand your ass to you one more time. MAs are not, my friend, "a dime a dozen."

[jahyarain]

37. huh

so by your logic, if i NEARLY wish for something to blow up NEARBY you my longing holds no malicious intent?

[G Rap]

39. it's not MY logic --- it's just logic

intent is inferred from the totality of circumstances. It is entirely possible that you would not have malicious intent IF your "wish" was for purposes other than some destruction to fall upon me.

[Shakespeare]

40. Wow, you're really stretched thin, there.

And it's entirely possible that Zinsmeister will sprout wings on his ass and fly away. Hey, it could happen, right?

His wish, whether it was for harm to befall someone or not, was maliciously stated. No amount of "almost" and "nearby" is ever going to mitigate that to something that's excusable.

[Catrina]

49. Context IS at play here. You seem to be unaware of the context

which would cause the reaction to a statement such as that made be a representative of this particular administration.

For context: George Bush and his family detest the press and have made no secret of it ~ which is why they paid their own private pundits to report the 'news' to the American people.

George Bush has stated that targeting an Internaional News organization would be a good idea. Even his friend Tony Blair understood that this is not something any Democratic leader should even think about.

Fake journalist Jeff Gannon and part-time male prostitute was given a 'hard pass' to the WH Press Corps for the sole purpose of throwing softball questions to the WH press secretary. To date, no one in the WH will answer questions as to how this occurred and who is responsible.

Iraqi journalists walked out of a Colin Powell press conference to protest the deliberate targeting of their colleagues by US troops.

The Spanish government has concluded that one of their journalists was deliberately targeted in the Palestine Hotel at the beginning of this war by US troops. (do a search if you're interested)

The Jordanian government has also been asking for an investigation into the killing of one of their journalists by US troops in the same incident.

The Italian government has charged that one of their top Agents and heroes, shortly after rescuing one of their journalists, was deliberatly shot to death along with the rescued journalist by US troops. That incident ruined the relationship the US had with Italy. They care about their people there and don't see them as mere fodder in Bush's war. The Italian people threw out Berlusconi and are bringing their troops home.

A US journalist was, according to reports, deliberately targeted after getting permission to film near Abu Ghraib.

Many journalists have reported being held and 'roughed up' by US troops in the course of doing their jobs.

I could go on, there are dozens more examples such as those and it is well known that this is an administration that has so much to hide, that they see the press as the enemy.

For this person to say that journalists do not understand the dangers of this war IS specious and that's putting it mildly. As of today, the number of journalist killed in this war equals the number killed in the entire Vietnam War.

His attempt to soften his ugly statement with the world 'nearby' doesn't work. Why? Because the world knows the hatred this administration has for the press in general, so his statement is seen as representative of that hatred and it was specious, or incorrect and misrepresented those journalists in the warzone where he himself will most likely never set foot.

The American poeple are paying for this war. This administration has lied from the beginning about it and has attempted to stifle reporters from reporting the facts as they are supposed to do.

Ari Fleischer warned us a long time ago how the press would be treated by this administration when he warned 'they better watch what they say'!! In a Democracy??

Then there was the anthrax affair targeting the press and (Senate Democrats) which Bush has made no attempt to solve. But it did have the desired effect on the press (and got the Patriot Act passed).

Foreign journalists, accustomed to a more free press, found themselves being 'punished' by the Bush administration for asking obvious questions which any reporter would do but which American journalists are not permitted to ask.

An Irish reporter whose job it is to keep HER government accountable to the people they represent, asked some simple questions of Bush when he was in Ireland. He became angry, so spoiled by the control he has over the US (now 44th on the list of countries with a free press). She was denied a scheduled interview with Laura the following day, further proving the hatred this administration has demonstrated towards the press.

So, in the context of the relationship (or non-relationship) of Bush with the press (all questions must be known to him in advance and 'no follow-ups') it is clear that this WH official was merely stating the opinion of this WH regarding the press. Killing them was a wish Bush himself expressed.

His remark was appalling ~ and imo, it certainly did represent the long history of antagonism against the press (including the desire to bomb some of them) of this president and his father.

There are investigations going on in various countries because of suspected targeting of members of their press and his own utterings regarding bombing a respected news outlet (throughout the rest of the world) coupled with the actual hits on Al Jazeera and the BBC, are enough evidence that a little bomb going off 'near' a journalist causing some bodily harm, would not be too disturbing to this WH. In fact, they would no doubt applaud such an event.

Context is everything ~ now maybe you have a small idea of why the reaction was what it was to the statement, for its nastimess and its erronious assumption that journalists in Iraq do not understand the danger, especially since so many of their colleagues have died there. He owes the press an apology. Better yet, an assurance that they will not be threatened or targeted while in the course of doing their very important work, covering a war that Bush says is a 'noble cause'. If it is, he should have nothing to fear from the press.

[Catrina]

30. No, we got it ~ a chickenhawk upset that reporters were reporting on

the real story in Iraq, rather than the PR fantasy they paid millions of dollars for (read about the Rendon Group) tempered his real feelings with the word 'almost' for public consumption. That the thought that even an 'almost' tragedy should beset one of his fellow countrymen should even enter his cowardly brain, is enough for civilized people everywhere to wonder just who is representing this country. Added to which are the many stories of journalists being deliberately targeted, and some killed, while trying to do job expected of them by the people of the US who are paying for this travesty.

There's also the fact that George Bush himself discussed bombing Al Jazeera's offices and the direct hit taken by them and the BBC in Afghanistan. Once people take their heads out of the sand regarding this administration, check the backgrounds of who this president hired and face the reality that the country has been taken over by a bunch of thugs and criminals (yes, some actually have been convicted of crimes) the shock of such reports becomes less.

His predecessor was arrested for shop-lifting, after being nominated for a judgeship, held up as a 'rising star' in the Republican Party, and lauded as a 'family values' person whose behavior should be emulated. He is the third WH official arrested for crimes this past year.

Welcome to DU btw ~ :hi:

[G Rap]

42. nice summary but...

Nice summary and dot connecting on journalist issues and thank you for the welcome.

However, you lost me at thugs and criminals" and I would point out that Zin did not (according to this quote) wish "an 'almost' tragedy" to "beset one of his fellow countrymen" because the quote says he "almost" wished an explosion "nearby."

[Catrina]

50. You're welcome ~ read my post above to understand why a spokesperson

for this administration, making such a statement is seen as simply reflecting (with an attempt at softening) the Administration's intense hatred for the press.

On the 'thugs and criminals' issue. I did not use those words lightly. I can give you a list of Bush appointees whose past records include convictions of crimes (then pardoned) and loss of security clearances and/or fired because of past investigations which concluded that they were engaged in activities that threatened the security of this country.

I used the word 'thugs' because it describes many of them perfectly. They launched an illegal and unnecessary war and treated former allies and the rest of the world in a way that can only (and was) be described as 'thuggish'. They insulted and threatened anyone who disagreed with them, eg. They stirred up hatred and animosity towards other countries who wisely refused to lie to their own people regarding the need to go to war in Iraq.

A partial list of criminals in this administration includes:

Elliot Abrams
Poindexter
Michael Ledeen (suspected of mishandling classified information and fired as a result)
Wolfowitz (similar charges against him)
Richard Perle (also suspected of passing classified info to a foreign nation)
Rhodes (same thing)
Stephen Byren (same thing)
Douglas Feith (fired for passing classified info to Israel)
Claude Allen/ Domestic policy advisor(arrested for petty theft a few months ago.)
David Safavian/ Director of Procurements (arrested for lying to Fed. agents in the Abramoff affairs and currently on trial)
Scooter Libby/Top WH official, indicted on 5 counts of perjury and obstruction of justice

I won't go into all those involved in the various scandals currently under investigation, ie, the Plame Affair (and yes, she was a NOC and her ruined operation, Brewster Jennings was tracking WMDs in the ME, but not any more). The multitude of crimes involved in the Abramoff affairs, which involves so many Republicans it will take years to sort them all out, not to mention hit men in Florida currently on trial for the murder of Abramoff's business associate, Gus Boulis. Tom Delay, under indictment and known as Republican hitman in Congress, threatening and forcing others to push through Bush's policies. He ceratainly can be described as a thug.

Bush tried to get Bernie Kerrick as his Homeland Security Chief, but a quick google search (don't these people know how to google?) revealed that there was a warrant out for him at the time, and since then his troubles have only increased, involving charges of dealing with the Mafia amongst other things. He would have been perfect for this administration, true, but very, very bad the American people.

There is a saying now that you will not get a job in this administration unless you have a questionable background. As more and more indictments and arrests are expected, this seems to be more and more true.

Eg, having unwisely (or was it deliberately) chosen to fill cabinet positions with National Security risks like Wolfowitz, Perle, Ledeen et al, it is no surprise that classified information was passed to 'a foreign nation' once again, and that Larry Franklin has been convicted in the case while two others are going to trial this month.

Then there is the growing Defense Contractor Scandal, commonly known as 'Hookergate' involving Duke Cunningham and developing daily to reveal the corruption involved in these no-bid contracts. This policy was 'thuggishly' foisted on the American people with Bush denying Congress any oversight role in the spending of our tax dollars for this war. As a result, we are hearing about bribery, sex and gambling, and nefarious Limo Co. owners with ten year rap sheets getting millions of dollars worth of contracts that the American people thought was for the troops.

There are already indictments in that scandal, and more are expected in the future. Porter Goss is gone, and his #3 man at the CIA, is now under investigation, or has he been indicted, it's hard to keep track of them all. They seem to be happening every day.

Not to mention the Enron scandal, with Bush's close friend and biggest campaign contributor, Ken Lay, convicted finally. So many of Bush's election 'Pioneers' are now under indictment, or investigation, that if he gave back all their money, he would have to leave the WH. Which means that he his campaign seems to have operated on mostly dirty money. Abramoff, Delay, Ken Lay, Tom Noe (pleading guilty today to charges of illegally funneling money into the Bush campaign). It goes on and on until you wonder, was there a single person in this administration that was not crooked?

I won't go on, but I could. The corruption and criminality in this administration exceeds all others in the history of this country and it's only begun to unfold.

I hope this short summary explains why I used the words 'criminals and thugs' ~ glad you're here. I've certainly learned a lot since I arrived. :-)

[Richard Steele]

32. I agree: The lack of intellectual honesty is utterly amazing!

Sadly, the lack is YOURS.

Enjoy your stay, CRap! :hi:

[WinkyDink]

44. I hope there's one near you, too. Oh, wait; you're not IN IRAQ.

[Demeter]

25. Somebody Get That Man A Suicide Belt

Make sure it's authentic, Hamas-manufacture, and that it's belted tight to him before the cell phone detonates it.

[lies and propaganda]

29. he only ALMOST wishes for their demise

so that cool right?

Im sure hes still a very consistent prolifers, though.

[Catrina]

31. War hath no fury like a non-combatant! n/t

[Ouabache]

51. yes because so many of them do blow bush most of the time

he just wishes they were on their knees 24/7.

[Bluebear]

38. "BRING 'EM ON!!!!" mentality runs deep. nt

[WinkyDink]

43. Is this the Bush Administration, or Psychopaths 'R' Us??

Bush knows how to find his kind, doesn't he? (Is this guy bald, too?)

[Blue_Tires]

52. tough-talking gutless wonder