Who does the blame for Haditha fall on, primarily?

[Guaranteed]

Poll question: Who does the blame for Haditha fall on, primarily?

Reading about what happened in Haditha, I keep thinking about Mylai. Years ago, I read the book written by the commanding officer of the platoon that ordered that massacre, Lieutenant William Calley.

What happened in both Haditha and Mylai obviously shouldn't have. But, our soldiers have been placed in an untenable situation. As a result, they end up doing horrible things. They crack.

Stronger soldiers would not have killed those civilians. But our soldiers shouldn't have been there in the first place, without very good reason.

It's war. It's hell- or the closest thing to it, on Earth. These types of things will ALWAYS happen in war. This is why the only wars we should ever be fighting are the ones that we are involved in without any decision on our part. Going to war is a recognition of the facts, not a decision. It is only acceptable when you have no choice other than to accept it- to accept that you are- already- literally fighting for the life of your country and its people.

So, who is to blame for this Haditha massacre?

Make suggestions, if you like, and I'll edit the poll.

[liberal N proud]

1. bush is commander in chief

This is his war, he wanted to be a war president, he laughs while soldiers die.
He lied to get us into this mess, he is responsible for every death that has taken place in Iraq or because of Iraq since the initial invasion.

Had we not attacked Iraq these soldiers would not have been put in the position and therefore this would not have happened.

Bring bu$h up on war crime charges NOW!

[Marnieworld]

2. It's the fruit of the poisonous tree

It is a logical, predictable outcome of the decision to start an illegal war. I'm sure there are many incidents like this that we don't hear about. This one had photographs. How many don't?

I don't excuse the behavior but I consider all of the soldiers victims of a greater atrocity. It's not even a war anyway. War is between two nation states. We invaded a defenseless country that never harmed us. The "insurgents" are just Iraqis telling their occupiers to leave or we are caught in the cross-fire of a civil war. We have no business being there and it is senseless. How do you not snap is more of the question?

[Wickerman]

3. abdication of the media to it's responsibility to act as the 4th Estate

Not lapdog. Had they done their job and reported fact instead of spin we wouldn't have gone to war, let alone had Bush in office.

[bryant69]

4. I think it's too pat to say it's President Bush

I mean I understand the sentiment - but those soldiers did this for several hours. This was not a crime of passion. You can argue that this would not be possible without President Bush's insane war - fair enough. He clearly shares a portion of the blame (as do we all, for that matter). But at the end of the day these soldiers have to shoulder most of the blame for actions that they took.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[flamin lib]

5. Haditha is history repeating itself. Shameless self promotion follows:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1314674&mesg_id=1314674

[Guaranteed]

6. Great post.

No, I didn't see it before posting this. :P

[Selatius]

7. If this were Nuremberg, Bush Co. and the soldiers would all be hung

There is more than enough dead bodies to assign blame from the triggerman all the way up to the men who committed an act of war against a weaker country.

[maxsolomon]

8. because we cannot countenance atrocities we

should not start wars. timely words from Apocalypse Now:

KURTZ
" I've seen horrors...horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call
me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that...But
you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is
necessary to those who do not know what horror means.
Horror. Horror has a face...And you must make a friend of horror. Horror and
moral terrorare your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared.
They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces...Seems
a thousand centuries ago...We went into a camp to innoculate the children.
We left the camp after we had innoculated the children for Polio, and this old
man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went
back there and they had come and hacked off every innoculated arm. There
they were in a pile...A pile of little arms. And I remember...I...I...I cried...
I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I
wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want
to forget. And then I realized...like I was shot...Like I was shot with a
diamond...a diamond bullet right through my forehead...And I thought:
My God...the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect,
genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were
stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not
monsters...These were men...trained cadres...these men who fought with
their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with
love...but they had the strength...the strength...to do that. If I had ten
divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You
have to have men who are moral...and at the same time who are able to
utilize their primordal instincts to kill without feeling...without passion...
without judgement...without judgement. Because it's judgement that
defeats us. "

[Guaranteed]

9. That was the inspiration for my post,

on another thread.

[Guaranteed]

10. Just as an aside, if you think this is a tough poll for us to answer,

I'd like to hear someone call up Rush Limbaugh and ask him who HE blames for this.

[Virginia Dare]

11. I voted for the Bush Administration...

but the American people are also to blame. Especially the ones who voted for Bush the second time around.

[Guaranteed]

14. Yup, that's who I voted for.

The people- because we didn't learn.

[TahitiNut]

12. It's combat, but not war.

It's a hostile occupation of another nation with a puppet regime. There is no opposition government, no opposition nation, no flag to be lowered in surrender, nobody with whom to have an armistice or truce talks or articles of surrender. It's not a "war."

The "war" (invasion and conquest) is over. Perhaps the next "war" is yet to come. Perhaps this is like Italy's occupation of Ethiopia. Perhaps it's like Germany's occupation of France and the creation of the Vichy government - but without the formation of the Allied nations - yet.
This is unilateral military predation. It's not yet "war." :scared:
(Theres a very real difference between a mugging and a fight.)

Viet Nam was a "war." There was an opposing nation. But it was a bizarre war - without the military or political objective of achieving either a surrender or an armistice. It was insanity on top of the insanity of war. Insanity squared. It was a war that was lost without losing any of the battles. Insanity squared.

Now we have battles without war. It's insanity without the rationale of an achievable, tangible objective. Unhinged insanity on top of political pathology. Criminality on a global scale.

[Hubert Flottz]

13. I think that would be ...

Bill's *%$#$@#!

Edit...didn't spell *%$#$@# right!

[Philosoraptor]

15. Bush and his little playmates.

[sproutster]

16. While I believe Bush & Co. share in the blame...

There was someone who put a child in the crosshairs and shot. There were others who did not stop it. And there are a lot who will justify and rationalize it.

The military COULD fight this honorably. It's broken all the way to the top.

Take all the M'Frs to the hauge.

[Scoody Boo]

17. No one other than the Company Commander...

or maybe the Battalion Commander is really to blame in this. Yes, they are there because of Rummy and Bush, but this incident was a unit level incident and the officer in command of this unit lost control of them.

It is sad and a tragedy, but the blame for THIS incident rest squarely on the troops and their commander.

[Squatch]

18. Platoon Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, and the Company Commander

Where was the first-line supervision of these Marines?

[bridgit]

19. The Bush Administration...