Oh shit. FBI to question House members on domestic spying disclosures

[ChairmanAgnostic]

CNN is reporting right now that the FBI will question US House members to find who leaked the fact that illegal spying is taking place within our country.
Oh my god.

[marmar]

1. Welcome to the USASSR.

The FBI/KGB is watching you.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. I suspect this may backfire.

Given the legislature's current dissatisfaction with the actions of DoJ, this probably wasn't the best time to go on a fishing expedition.

[Sherman A1]

17. Would be too bad

If a motion was entered onto the floor of the House and the Senate to eliminate funding for the FBI. Not necessarily a good idea to bite the hand that holds the purse strings while shredding the Constitutional separation of powers.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. I think it's a great idea

Cutting the funding for Intel and DOD in half and we could have real national security by spending money on the things we really need.

[sarge43]

3. Hey Congresscritters, remember this one ....

"First, they came for ...."?

Welcome to the world the rest of us have to live in. And please don't whine, you all helped make it so.

[Julius Civitatus]

45. They'll comply and praise Bush, the spineless wonders

Welcome to the Soviet States of Amerika.
Your rigths are only in your head.

[Pachamama]

4. I hope they all say "I did disclose the constitutional violation of the

people's rights" - "Whatcha going do about it?" - "Go ahead - make my day! Bring it on!"

That's what a true Patriot would say if we have any Congress Critters who are that....

[Hubert Flottz]

7. Why should they care about the FBI asking them questions OR

barging into their offices and grabbing records...if they don't have ANYTHING to hide? Ask Fat Dennis that!

[Swamp Rat]

13. This is a big move

Bushler&Co are flexing their muscles.

Time for every member of Congress to stand up and ask: "Dear President Bush, is this now a dictatorship? We ask this simple question because it sure seems like it."

[Daphne08]

5. Orwellian. Lawbreakers question lawmakers? n/t

[notadmblnd]

6. will they use hoods, sleep depravation and humiliation

to get their answers too? I can picture it now. A pile of naked congressmen on the floor whit black hoods over thier faces. Feces smeared on their limbs and two clean cut FBI agents posing in pictures giving a thumbs up.

How far will they go?

[Hubert Flottz]

8. Waterboard the lot!

[notadmblnd]

9. Can you imagine CSPAN airing it?

nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. At least cspan won't mention American Idle. I hope.

I cannot believe what is happening to my country.
Every time I see that shithheel Gonzales on the screen, my blood begins to boil. That smarmy, piece of ossified whale turd smiles, then takes away more rights.

[acmejack]

21. I see we hold him in similar contempt

[Dunvegan]

33. That's Abu's Job Description: Remover of Rights

[Dunvegan]

12. Thank heavens the coffee wasn't in the cup yet, notadmblnd

I would have had a massive spit-take spill to clean up.

[Hubert Flottz]

27. "How far will they go?"

Just as far as the people in this country let them...Congress had better speak up for the people!

[paparush]

42. Make them stand, for days, that'll do the trick

Heard this article on NPR the other day about all the tactics the US has adopted from the KGB. The KGB found that just making a prisoner stand, for days at a time, was about the most effective style of torture...self inflicted pain was the term they used. Left no marks, no scars, etc...

Also, making them hold their arms out/up, etc... Nasty stuff.

[eShirl]

10. how soon before the Republican Congress demands impeachment? (n/t)

[izzie]

14. I talked about this before

First it is if you are a Christian, then what kind of Christian and then this is how you must think as the right type of Christian. It always goes like this. You can watch Republicans attack Snowe and try to get some one MORE Republican to run against her just for a start. It is all in the same vain. I am not sure why but it always goes like that. Now Congress is to get it because I guess they are not in line with the WH on every thing. And as their leader they have a man who think he talks to God and is always right. He is said to have signed papers saying he will not do what he just signed. It is crazy. It also pays as all the people in power on 911 have better jobs and more power even if they did very bad jobs which they did. I am sure Congress is something Bush would be happy to just get rid of.

[seemslikeadream]

15. You many not know Alberto Gonzales

[maine_raptor]

16. This does not make sense.

I thought the "Gang of Eight" were the only ones in Congress that knew about the program before it was revealed? Besides, didn't all the media accounts say that they got the info from someone inside the NSA?

Methinks this is just another Bush Admin. Horse Head to lay upon the Congress Critter's pillows.

[Divernan]

18. Can we have some SERIOUS discussion on this thread?

Instead of the OMG!s and serves them right comments? I'd like to hear from historians, constitutional scholars, etc. Is this totally unprecedented? Is this likely to be a superficial give and take, where the FBI is flexing its muscles to intimidate the Congresspersons and their staffers from FUTURE "leaks"? By superficial, I mean that the congresspeople are not subpoenaed and put under oath. And I do not accept Gonzales' definition that divulging illegal actions by the govt. to be "leaking". And hell, if Cheney & Bush, and even the oil executives can refuse to be put under oath when talking to the 911 Commission or congressional committeess, Congressmen & women and their staffs can claim the same right.

If Congressional legal staff conclude that certain govt. behaviors are illegal, then I think congress members & staff could give a uniform reply, i.e, I have disclosed no legal government actions. This is ALL they need to say. As much contempt as I have for the actions and inactions of the current Congress, they will redeem themselves somewhat if they play extreme hardball on this matter.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. I don't mind the serious discussion, but the shock value has to pass 1st.

Remember, when you talk to a federal officer, not telling the truth, even without an oath, is a federal crime.
Do you think that these assholes will recognize the constitutional right against self-incrimination?
Let me take you back to the CLinton era, when the FBI was searching for a domestic terra-ist, the guy who blew up the bomb in Atlanta. Do you recall how they caught the wrong guy, and "pretended" to make a training video, trying to get him to say that he was responsible for the bombing?
Now, their leadership is populated by Ashcroft hold-overs, Alberto Gonzales is even worse that Ashcroft and they consider everything to be fair game. Rights? They no longer exist. They have just declared war on our constitution and I don't think that even here on DU that we have fully come to grips with the implications.

I have never seen anything in the history of the US that matches this hubris and attack on the constitution, expect the Alien and Sedition Act, way back when.

[Avalux]

24. It is my understanding there is no precedent for this action.

The executive branch has completely overstepped it's boundaries by sending their enforcement team out to interrogate members of Congress about a spying program - a spying program that has broken laws, is unconstitutional and has had no congressional oversight.

It is also my understanding that only a few select members had knowledge of the program, so I am a bit perplexed about this strongarm tactic other than as you say - the WH flexing its muscle.

The emasculation of the Legislative Branch is the goal here, and unless all congressmen - Democrats and Republicans alike stand up and push back, it very well could happen.

[WePurrsevere]

25. I'd like answers to the same questions. It doesn't seem as though it

would be Constitutional to me? What real rights does the FBI actually have when dealing with Congress? It seems to me that they're over stepping their legal bounds with this whole thing (along with the searching the office of the Dem accused of taking a bribe... and no, I'm not saying he shouldn't be prosecuted if he committed a crime.) If I remember correctly aren't there certain protections written in the Constitution for our Gov Representatives?

ALL Congressional reps (Republicans, Democrats and Independents) and their staff need to draw a firm line in the sand on this one. The basic reply you came up with was very good "I have disclosed no legal government actions." It says nothing while saying everything that needs to really be said.

[Ouabache]

19. Bushco has decided since Congress doesn't have the balls to

investigate HIM, it is time to attack them, as an institution.

Can you say FASCIST, boys and girls? I knew you could.

[acmejack]

28. Turn yourself in to Divernan

who only desires to hear from "historians, constitutional scholars, etc" conducting "serious discussion" on this thread. It was not stated as to who determined the worthiness of said discussion to be posted here. DN may clear that up as well for you.

Away the frivolity suppression team!

[Divernan]

50. Now, now, 1X out of 3600 posts I ask for some (not all)serious discussion

This subject is a REALLY big deal to me, and I did not want to see it sink out of sight without the kind of thoughtful responses which have since been posted. And note I said "some" serious discussion - not all or only.

[Peace Patriot]

20. Get smart, DUers! Cynthia McKinney was the test run. What they did to

her was an open violation of the Constitution, which explicitly forbids ANY PERSON from preventing a member of Congress from entering Congress for ANY REASON--a provision aimed directly at the Executive but including the courts and all police and military powers. Many DUers were taken in, and dissed McKinney for reacting to their putting an arm on her. She has a duty as a member of Congress not to let that happen. And whatever you think of her or her reaction, she was in the RIGHT. They cannot touch her! That's what the Constitution says.

Next, they raid a Congressman's office!

First they come for the black legislators.....

[midnight]

26. After she apologized for this travesty what happened.

Why did she have to apologize. Did she forget that she was allowed to enter without being stopped for any reason. Even if she changed her hairdo.

[Peace Patriot]

40. Can you imagine what it is like to be up against these junta-ists and

and their "pod people" in Congress, with the scaredy-cat, collusive Democratic leadership as your only 'bulwark'? McKinney has been way out ahead of that leadership on the war, on the 9/11 investigation and everything else. She is one of the few people in Congress who has been representing the majority of Americans. Try to imagine the pressures on her. And stop making smart-ass remarks about her hair.

Don't you understand what I'm saying? She tried to assert her Constitutional protection and the DEMOCRATS wouldn't back her up. Do you think that, in any previous Congress, the Constitutional right to protection that members of Congress possess would have been sloughed off in this way, and a member of Congress so disrespected?

It was UNPRECEDENTED! So is the invasion of Congressional offices. So is the threatened interrogation of members of Congress. It is an ESCALATING assault on Congressional privilege and rights. And it goes hand in hand with Bush adding a coda to laws that Congress has passed, saying that HE decides whether or the law applies to him and his junta.

You also don't seem to understand that fascists pick on the weak and the vulnerable FIRST--someone who is not part of the inner circle of power--and they COUNT ON public ridicule for someone who is different and isn't "one of the gang."

Wake up, DUers! Stop doing the junta's work for them, by ADDING insult to injury when they're after somebody!

[suffragette]

51. "ESCALATING assault on Congressional privilege and rights"

Had to copy that and paste it in a subject line since you worded that perfectly, Peace Patriot.

That is the root of what is occurring now. And it is very bad precedent.

The power grab by this Admin continues and it won't stop until people refuse to allow it. Congress has been letting them chip away at their rights and power. At some point, the Admin will shift from using an adze to a powered wood chipper and Congress will end up as so much sawdust. This may be the point of that change. They need to fight this.

[Epiphany4z]

22. does he want to

be impeached? Most of the people in congress who knew about the illegal wire tape where republicans. How far can he push before they start think ya know what...maybe this boy does need an impeachmet.

[WePurrsevere]

29. Is there a link to this story yet? TIA n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. not yet. I heard it live on CNN about 1/2 an hour ago

you know, that twit, that nit and an occassional git.
Of course, American Idle is far more important.

[WePurrsevere]

34. Yeah I know what you mean. One would think by now there would be some

coverage about this on their site at least but then again why would I expect the media to actually REPORT the TRUTH and real NEWS any more? ::Sigh::

I can sort of understand a bit of ooverage of American Idol as a puff piece but certainly not instead of real news of which there certainly seems to be plenty of.

Hopefully there will be more on this FBI BS later...

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Good

Maybe they'll start to wake up.

[Peace Patriot]

35. If it's any comfort--and maybe it is--this cascade of direct assaults on

the Constitution could be signs of panic. What they've done, and what they've claimed for executive power, is mind-boggling, and without precedent in its breadth. It started with torture...

--the president can overturn the Geneva Conventions and US law by creating his own definition of prisoners of war ("enemy combatants") in order to hold them apart from any legal requirements regarding their treatment

--the president can hold this new category of persons--"enemy combatants"--indefinitely without charge, at disclosed or undisclosed locations, can deny them legal recourse (so they asserted), can deny them any contact with their families or the outside world, can refuse to disclose even their names, and can do whatever he damned pleases with them, including torture them to death

--the president can spy on everybody in the United States, including reporters, politicians, citizen dissenters, members of Congress, and completely uninvolved persons and businesses, in violation of numerous laws, and with no oversight whatsoever

--the president can write disclaimers on bills passed by Congress, when he "signs" them, whereby he decides which laws apply to him and his junta, and which do not--a simply incredible assertion that, in essence, dismantles the Constitution

--the president can place an "Iron Curtain" of secrecy over all the doings of his junta, denying Congress and the American people essential information about budgets and contracts, about spying, about the identities and fates of prisoners, and about literally ANYTHING the president does not want the people or its representatives to know

--the president can strongarm members of Congress for "security" reasons, and can raid Congressional offices on mere suspicion and allegation of a crime, against explicit language in the Constitution forbidding such actions, even with regard to members of Congress who have been CONVICTED of a crime--the president CANNOT touch them, even if his courts convict them of something (--because the king's courts in "old Europe" did just that, used the courts and police powers against legislators to suppress lawful dissent by the peoples' representatives)

--the president can use massive deception to force Congress to give him power to invade a specific country that the president alleges is a threat, and then can broaden that power dramatically to include invading that country without cause, slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people, torturing many more, plotting the invasion of other countries, creating a $10 TRILLION deficit with much of his budget hidden and unaccountable, and overturning the Bill of Rights at home on the grounds of "national security"

--the president and his regime can commit treason by outing and endangering not just one US covert agent, but an entire US counter-proliferation network, putting all of its covert agents and contacts at risk of death; can permit the shredding of documents pertaining to his and others' guilt, and can direct his lieutenants to stonewall any investigation.

--the president can inflict political and religious tests on anyone in government, including military and intelligence professionals, government scientists, and civil servants of every kind, and can thus undermine and destroy established agencies created by Congress for the public good, if he so wishes

--the president can use public funds to "establish religion."

And that's just for starters.

It's beyond scary. It IS a junta. There is no other word for it. We, the People, have been overthrown.

But this is a great big, complicated and very diverse country. That is one our strengths. And, in my opinion, it cannot easily be Nazified. They've had five and half years of unfettered power--in government and in the corporate news monopolies--and they have failed to convince the vast majority of the American people to "sieg heil." In fact, some 70% of the people are "thumbs down" on this regime. So these junta-ists are sitting on a very thin reed of power--getting thinner every minute--that could collapse at any time. They further have the Fitzgerald investigation hanging over their heads--which I think has had far more impact behind the scenes than anyone realizes. These latest assaults on the Constitution--particularly the assertion of the power of illegal and pervasive spying, the power to stop members of Congress from entering Congress (McKinney), the power to invade Congressional offices (Jefferson), and now the power to interrogate members of Congress regarding illegal acts of the regime-- smell like panic to me. They are facing a huge rebellion of the American people in the fall--even WITH their Diebold and ES&S election theft machinery now installed (a 5% to 10% "thumb on the scales" for Bushites and warmongers)--and want to put the precedents in place NOW for outright unconstitutional curtailment of Congress with police actions.

I think they sense that they cannot stop the landslide of disapproval that is coming. They are desperately grasping at other means to prevent investigations and overrides of their asserted illegal powers. Desperate being the key word.

What WE have to do is to engender massive voter turnout, to elect representatives who cannot be intimidated, and who cannot be blackmailed.

I wish we had the Democratic Party on our side as to beating the machines. Unfortunately, for the most part, we do not. Whether out of corruption or fear, they are "head in the sand" about Bushite corporate control of the voting machines (with 'TRADE SECRET', PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls--so authored by Tom Delay and Bob Ney!). (--and Christopher Dodd!)

We did it in 2004. We did massive turnout, without a whole lot of help from the Democratic Party. It was grass roots groups who did it (a blowout success for the Dems in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40*). We need to do that AGAIN. And we very clearly need to hang in there for the long term, and work at the state/local level to get rid of these election theft machines and restore election transparency. If we accomplish nothing else but making the case against the machines, we will win back our democracy over time. The junta may teeter and fall of its own hubris and corruption, in the meantime. We need to work on a plan to never let it happen again--starting with VERIFIABLE elections.

---------

*(How did we "lose"? Prove it to me. SHOW ME THE BALLOTS!)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

36. I wish I could recommend your note. I hope you put it in your journal.

B R A V O ! ! !

[Peace Patriot]

46. I'm sorry. I'm an old lady and don't understand all these functions of

DU (though I've been here since the 2004 election). I just learned how to use smilies a couple of months ago.

:patriot: :toast: :patriot:

[dogday]

37. Great Post

I sure do like how you write... I remember the post from the other day asking everyone to calm down and work together.... Thanks :hi:

[Lars39]

38. Good overview.

[stepnw1f]

39. Welcome to Fascism!

So many warned us, yet they were all called alarmists and conspiracy theorists. I wish people had enough common sense to pay attention to actions rather than just what these crooks in our government say.

[sinkingfeeling]

41. I remember when the FBI spent its time looking for kidnapped people,

organized crime figures, and assisted local law enforcement. When did it become just another arm of fascism?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. under ashcroft, then gonzales

remember, his top aids knelt and preyed with Johnnie every morning. That changed the culture of the entire FBI. They are now a faith-based institution supporting their god-chosen president.

[Norquist Nemesis]

44. Illegal spying by the FBI or NSA?

Forgive me, I was under the impression that the guy who "leaked" to the NYT came out and said he was the one who did it. (I can't seem to google the right search terms to verify.) But, IIRC, this former NSA employee came out shortly after the story "broke" in December, which by the way was a year after Bush 'convinced' them not publish the story. :shrug:

[Norquist Nemesis]

49. Found it! Russel Tice

Interestingly, this report is by Brian Ross (From January 2006). Yes indeedy! The same Brian Ross that came out recently and said the government is spying on him and other reporters to learn who the 'leaker' was.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1491889

NSA Whistleblower Alleges Illegal Spying
Jan 10, 2006 — Russell Tice, a longtime insider at the National Security Agency, is now a whistleblower the agency would like to keep quiet. <snip>

[DemoTex]

47. Bu$hco pulls all stops on police state. Martial law looms.

Heavy duty intimidation of press, lawmakers, and whistle-blowers. Heavy duty police state activity. Courts packed with Bu$h-bots. No shame. No regrets. To hell with the Constitution, it's just a piece of old, yellow paper. Damn the country, full speed ahead.

Who among you still think there will even be November elections? If they aren't already 100% in the bag for Bu$hco, we won't have 'em. Extrapolate out everything that has happened in the past couple of months alone, add a "security" threat/incident or two, and martial law looks very likely by the end of the year.

Remember, we are dealing with a regime which sees 70% disapproval and says "FUCK YOU!" We are dealing with a president who has never vetoed legislation. He just adds wording stipulating just if and how he will execute the law. The more they get away with, the bolder they get.

[MadHound]

48. Another milestone on the road to fascism and dictatorship

Investigate and question Congressmen. Use those interviews to smear all of Congress with false charges and innuendo. Declare that Congress is a threat during a time of war. Eliminate Congress, leaving a well packed, and well cowed judiciary as the only check against unbridled power of the "unitary executive".

Happened in Rome, Germany, and many other despotic dictatorships.