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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:32 PM
Original message
OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 6
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:34 PM by damkira
Sorry if I'm overstepping my bounds by making this thread, I didn't want to have something posted in the last one and not be able to get a response to it.

Here is thread 5:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1227513

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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. you should post a link back the thread 5
:hi:
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thank ya.
It's done. :7
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
56. 6 threads?? for what?
I've been away from computers all morning and now I find six threads on -- what? Can someone easily direct me to thread one or just tell me if something is going down?

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/1446062
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. z-z-z-z-z-z
can you guys keep it down.

I'm trying to get some rest until the indictments are handed down...
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smb Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. OK
I'm trying to get some rest until the indictments are handed down

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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. There was a young man from Nantuckett...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. who kept all his cash in a bucket...
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
95. and didn't spend it on a mucket!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. oh.my.god
so weary. so very weary.


:boring:


can someone enlighten me as to why all the fervor on this matter? this whole discussion is getting far too freeper-esque for my taste.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I guess I'll say it...Any News??
Please continue...
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Nope....
This sure has been a long business day...
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. lol
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. What number thread will we be on when the indictment is announced?
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. At this pace probably thread number 1500. nt
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:41 PM by Connie_Corleone
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Hopefully #8
Given that it slows down around here in the evening, and tomorrow is Friday.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. reply for DU'er Karmakaze from thread 5 at post # 132
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:41 PM by stop the bleeding
not an insult, it is an honest question, if you were following the threads from yesterday you would have seen that I was commenting to someone else minding my own biznezz and the he/she chimes in with their mean remarks. Once I knocked everyone of their remarks down he/she did not seem to want to play anymore after starting the whole deal no less. Now we goto to day 2 and the meanness continues.

Anyone who goes back and looks at what she/he said will see what I am talking about no more no less.

I have had several DU'er pm me asking the same thing, ones that have been staying away from this subject.

edit: I may have put the wrong post# up.
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. got your back on this.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. You don't think....
calling someone mean and bitter is an insult?

Can you point me to an example of the meanness you are talking about?
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Calling someone mean and bitter is an observation
If the shoe fits ...

I think the point is, when drilled down, there is no constructive conversations happening. Hubris from the "gang" of posters is way beyond that. They moved from the safety of satire to the realm of intimidation long ago. Mean and bitter sums it up in a nice neat package, IMHO.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Initimidation? Are you serious?
Saying "Why are you so mean and bitter?" is as far as I can tell no different from saying "Why are you so stupid?" and constitutes nothing less than a personal attack.

But intimidation? I seriously have a hard time believeing OldLeftyLawyer or Arwalden are engaging in intimidation. It certainly doesnt seem that way to me. I have seen them accused of practically being freepers, which, being a bannable offense here on DU, is far more like what I would consider to be intimidation.

Can you link me to an example where anyone has been intimidating Leopold suppporters?
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
69. I was speaking to the "gang/group" mentality
Of the type that appear like circling wolves if you as a question or question their position. Here's an example of how a poster felt and expressed it themselves. Read the whole subtread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1217985&mesg_id=1218411

Where is there anything constructive in that? I don't see it. I just see bullying.

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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
86. I see someone being...
criticised refusing to continue a conversation.

As for circling wolves: on that subthread I count three people whose opinion differs from yours. I also count four people whose opinion agrees with yours, including you. Now I dunno about you, but I always thought of "ganging up" or "circling wolves" as being the larger number in the equation.

I certainly don't see any intimidation.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. I have noticed that too
I have no fear that he/she will see my reply. He/she placed me on ignore weeks ago ... for the use of a word that "offended" them.

There must be no mirrors where they are.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. OK
Together, I'm sure we can reach another 300+ posts. I was going to post this important question in thread #5, but it's going to have to go here.

What movie is this quote from?

MICHEAL: "You know what you are man, you know what you remind me of. Y-you're like th-th-th-th-that guy, with the, you know, with the, with the hat, and the bells, and the little, you know..."

"The court jester."

"Yeah, right, where everything is so easy to laugh at, from a safe distance back in clever-clever land."

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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. 100 post limit
Which means that if we are on thread 6, we have all ready passed 500 posts on the 'offical thread'.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Incredible
All w/no news, developments, or changes at all. I am starting to wonder how far this can go. Will people give up, move on, keep fighting? Oh, and do you have a guess?
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. It's on their mind
So I don't see a problem with them chatting and hanging out togother over a thread. So long as they are not making hundreds of 'no news' threads. or starting a thread that is actualy a reply that they want to make sure is 'heard' over hundreds of others.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Oh, me either
I think it was a good idea to put it all into one thread.
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magpie Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Fish Without a Bicycle. n/t
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Nope. sorry.
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:57 PM by Marie26
Think 90's angsty romantic movie.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. Reality Bites? (nt)
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
119. DING DING DING!
Congratulations! :toast: You've won, well, nothing - but here's some cute smilies. :bounce: :applause: :hi:
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. HOLD YOUR HORSES. It's not Rove who is the target, but Dick Armitage!
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:56 PM by Snivi Yllom
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Senior_Powell_aide_focus_of_CIA_0518.html

Senior Powell aide focus of CIA leak investigation, former spymaster says

John Byrne
Published: Thursday May 18, 2006


The former director of the National Security Agency has said a former deputy to Secretary of State Colin Powell is a focus in the CIA leak investigation, RAW STORY can report.

Steve Clemons, editor of the popular foreign relations blog "The Washington Note," revealed Thursday that former NSA chief Bobby Ray Inman has repeatedly said former Undersecretary of State Richard Armitage is a target of the investigation into the outing covert CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson. While saying he has no knowledge of the veracity of Inman's claim, Clemons notes that the nation's top spy chief might be privy to insider information.

"What Inman shared with some of us," Clemons writes, "is that the person in Patrick Fitzgerald's bull's eye is Richard Armitage."

Armitage International, where Armitage currently employed, declined to comment.

"We've had no comment until the investigation is over," a man who answered the phone at Armitage's firm said. "And that still stands."


more here:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001398.php

the source is Bobby Inman, former NSA director.

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Rove could still be a target, re: perjury, conspiracy...
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. could be
But this report is far more credible than anything Leopold has written.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. anything new?
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. this: Dick Armitage focus of CIA leak investigation
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. thanks for the update
peace
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
60. Clemens makes it VERY clear that this is a RUMOR
"I have written about Armatige many times in the past and hope that this rumor is incorrect."

One of Clemens earlier writings speculated that Armatige could be Fitzgerald's source in the Libby/Rove matter, here is the link:

Who is Patrick Fitzgerald's "Deep Throat" Source? Is there a Counter-Leaker on Plame Case Working for the Side of Good?

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001099.php
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. I have always thought that the Armitage rumor
(tis not the first time it has been thrown against the wall) was a deflection away from Bolton.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #75
84. The Armitage aspect has, indeed, been interesting
On the one hand, he is an administration loyalist but to what extent is a question. On the other hand, he was very loyal to Colin Powell and would likely, given the DOD attacks on State (Powell), not be thrilled with the WHIG group.

Seeing as Armitage resigned right after Powell left, it sure leaves a question mark as to what side he would fall on, if any at all.

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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well, it just
goes to show ya, ya can't depend on that Fitzgerald for nothin'. :spank:
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. I found this
Jason is right, especially regarding Roves spokesman, Mark Corallo.

"There has been no talk of resignation. The Republican Conference is solidly behind the Louisiana Republican (Bob Livingstone)." Thats Mark Corallo on December 17, 1998.

Two days later on December 19, 1998

Bob Livingstone bows out of the speakership making an announcement on House floor. Corallo must have known well in advance.

When push comes to shove, it is Jason's and Truthout's word against the lying sacks of shit hiding out on Pennsylvania Ave.


http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=39&contentid=3518&page=2


(hope this source is acceptable).....
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. I may have missed it, but is sick cat story true?
I remember reading that someone was going to look into whether or not Rove's atty really did have a sick cat last Friday (day of alleged indictment). They were going to call local vet offices and check out his story.


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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
34. What the heck is that on that sticky?
I've been staring at it for a while. I can't make out what it is.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:03 PM
Original message
Hippos?
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:08 PM
Original message
Not sure I want to know
Some things really are left to mystery.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
55. I'm just glad it's gone.
:rofl:

and glad I was not the only one wondering.
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. So....
Anything big going down today?
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. I would be interested in hearing from Will Pitt.
We need clarification from the sauce.

I mean source.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Ack!!
:rofl: You nut! :rofl:
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. hey did you know....
That you and OldLeftyLawyer have been intimidating people?

You really should cut that out, it's not nice :)
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Well...
If by "intimidating", you mean "calling out the shit", then I suppose you might have heard correctly.

Who told you that anyway? PM me so you don't have to embarrass your confidential sources.

~Allen
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Look up the thread...
Post #32.

I mean, seriously :)
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. One Of Those "Delicate" Types Has Put Me On Ignore...
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Thanks for the kind words and the support. Some people are difficult to figure out, aren't they?
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. It may not look like it -
but I have sources that say I have been around here a lot longer than it appears. Suffice it to say that I have read many, many of your posts for a long, long time (hmm does that make us sound old?) and the thought of you "intimidating" someone on DU strikes me as hilarious. :)

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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Well... I Did Warn Someone...
... that he was "skating on thin ice" and that he needed to "cut the shit" and that he should "proceed with caution"... particularly when it came to how free and loose he was being with the DU rules (specifically the one about making personal attacks and insults).

As it turns out, I was correct and my warnings were justified... his little subthread of nastiness was deleted (just as I had predicted), yet... still... he (or she) managed to construe that as my making threats.

Go figure! :shrug:

I guess some folks aren't happy unless they are being victimized. They bully others, then when someone fights back and calls them on their shit... the bully pretends to be the victim.

As predictable as clockwork.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. Hmm...
I hope I haven't just pulled a Leopold!

Let me clarify what was said "the 'gang' of posters" has moved "to the realm of intimidation". Which is kind of like saying you and OldLeftyLawyer are intimidating people - isn't it? :shrug:
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Granted... It Was A Bit Vague
... but anyone who's had the stamina to endure the previous FIVE threads (with over 100 posts each) certainly won't have a difficult time in spotting the regular "players", "teams", "alliances", etc...

Those who choose to portray themselves as "victims" really need to take some acting lessons. They aren't very convincing, especially when it comes to making accusations that someone has made "threats" against them.

What an absurd little gaggle of groupies.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Oops...
Now Ive gone and started two sub threads with one person :)

But I guess that is no more absurd than something I have seen on this Mini-Series (that is threatening to become a full series) thread :)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Intimidating?
Oh please!
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. hahahahahahaha
ROTFL
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. OK, I don't care what side of the aisle you're on,
this is just damn funny. :)
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. jusss aliiiiillllllllllll muuurrrrrrrr suuuusssssss
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Take a bow
That was good.

Everybody's talkin' about it:


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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
126. The one on the far right/front looks like Rush Limbaugh
Seriously.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. for what its worth...
Posted by fireback
May 18, 2006 02:50 PM

For what its worth, I just got off the phone with the receptionist for Randall Samborn, the spokesman for Fitzgerald. I asked if Mr. Fitzgerald was in Chicago or Washington.

She said he was in Chicago.

Here's to a late afternoon/night or early morning flight to DC.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014875.html#comments
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Maybe...
Edited on Thu May-18-06 04:12 PM by damkira
but I think we can all agree now that if Rove is charged now, it is purely independent of anything which took place in Leopold's article.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
70. I wouldn't say that
The media don't always get things 100% correct, but they don't get skined this bad.

To me, it's all about the point. Is it in the works/coming down the lane right now, or not. IF the problem is the claiming that the GJ has decided to indict him, but the paperwork hasn't been filed yet.. That would be a technocality error. For some, when they HEARD the GJ had finaly 'done it',

Considering that my sources are also talking indictment, I'm guessing that this 'rumor' is comeing pretty far up. And the actual 'technocalitys' were not considered a major issue when first 'discussed'. Hence, improper reporting.

The DC reporters really have been 'chatting' about this since Friday. ANd, as a 'done deal' type of thing.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Ok, color me stupid
Cause I haven't been following closely. But whats the deal with Chicago?
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Fitzgerald is the federal prosecutor in Chicago...
He covers the Northern District of Illinois. It was his office, for example, that indicted and got a conviction against former governor George Ryan recently.

Fitz also lives in Chicago now, and was chosen for the job because of his independent ways. He previously lived in New York City.

He is a special prosecutor investigating Plamegate.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. Thanks!
I've had to take a mental break for awhile. LOL! So names, dates, details.. Nada!
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. it's not DC
An indictment would be announed in DC.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Also, the meeting at Rove's attorneys' offices....
supposedly was attended by Fitzgerald in DC. As good as Fitz is, he doesn't have the ability to be in two places at once.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Wha.?
That receptionist would be in big trouble for revealing Fitz's whereabouts. Hmm...
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. I wonder what Fitzgerald thinks about all this...
I mean he has to know right? Roves lawyer has commented, and his office is bound to have had phonecalls seeking a statement as the the facts, so I wonder what HE thinks about this huge fuss that has developed?
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_testify_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. regular Chicago or 'business Chicago'?
I wonder.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
63. WashPost: "Grand Jury Hears Summary of Case On CIA Leak Probe"
What we should have seen by now. This was reported the day before Scooter Libby was indicted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/26/AR2005102600532.html#

Grand Jury Hears Summary of Case On CIA Leak Probe
Decision on Charges May Come Friday

By Carol D. Leonnig and Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 27, 2005; Page A01

The prosecutor in the CIA leak investigation presented a summary of his case to a federal grand jury yesterday and is expected to announce a final decision on charges in the two-year-long probe tomorrow, according to people familiar with the case.

Even as Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald wrapped up his case, the legal team of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has been engaged in a furious effort to convince the prosecutor that Rove did not commit perjury during the course of the investigation, according to people close to the aide. The sources, who indicated that the effort intensified in recent weeks, said Rove still did not know last night whether he would be indicted.

Fitzgerald is completing his probe of whether senior administration officials broke the law by disclosing the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame to the media in the summer of 2003 to discredit her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, an administration critic. The grand jury's term will expire Friday.
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. All this has already happened, but it has been kept secret.
Mark my words, when the second coming comes, the dates on the documents will be 1.1.1000.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. You Slay Me!! -- Stop! This is TOO MUCH!!
<< All this has already happened, but it has been kept secret. >>



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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. And on post #66 too ...
Anyway, bedtime here on the less interesting side of the Atlantic. I look forward to catching up with things tomorrow.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. Oh yeah - what about this??????
If you take the number "24" and convert it to binary, you get 1 1 0 0 0.

Coincidence? I don't think so.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Yes but this time the focus is on Rove.
All orders were for the media to halt reporting about Rove. And they obeyed.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. The KARLSPIRACY strikes again
all powerful Karl, able to control space and time

and the NY Times.

:eyes:
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. And the Christian Science Monitor and The Nation.
Awesome powers that Karl has!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. You truly believe that?
Who gave these orders?

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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
73. Is it safe? Rove is coming to Chicago tomorrow!!!!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. He's coming to Chicago because his 24 Harvest Moon Hours are up.
He's handing himself over into Fitzgerald's custody. It was prearranged last Friday.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Is that before or after....
he attends Republican fundraisers?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Didn't you know?
Fitz will attend those fundraisers with him, just to keep a close eye on him. Rove will be wearing an electronic ankle bracelet and a shock collar.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. It took 15 hours to make the plane reservations
The damn Secret Service took all the window seats.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. I wonder if...
the drunk pilot from Sunday night is flying the plane?

:scared:
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Sadly, no
He thought it took off on May 12th.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Is he going to out the air traffic control guy who told him that?
:shrug:
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. Only if it turns out the plane never takes off
If another plane at some point eventually flies to Chicago then it's all good.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. What plane?
I heard he's taking a land route:

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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. I heard he was taking a Land Rove-er
18 doughnuts to the gallon.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. If Rove ever visits Chicago in his life, the story is true
But only if he flies "business class."
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #87
103. no no no, it's the secret United 93 pilot
you know, the one from the real United 93.....


the one that landed in Cleveland.....
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #82
97. And it's on a stealth bomber
Don't want people noticing who's on board, ya know.

Yeah, people are routinely told of Fitzgerald's travel plans.

Right.

Someone's gullible, methinks.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. Oh, yeah?
Well, I just found out that The Rapture will take place tomorrow, so all bets are off.

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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Karl pulled that one out of his ass.
That guy truly is the all powerful!
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. If only they understood
If only.

Look at how he's managed to manipulate the whole judicial system, not to mention the good DUers.

You do know, don't you, that we were always his intended targets?

Yes, we were. Karl Rove's only reason for living recently has been to flummox DU.

I'll be wearing my water wings tomorrow. Think about it.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. Now, is this the Biblical "Tomorrow"?
If so, I shall pass the warning down to my great, great, great, great, great grandchildren. Im sure they will give you proper credit for your scoop :)
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #73
94. it does not sound like he is going to be indicted Friday
if he has time for a fundraiser Friday.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #94
101. No, he doesn't have to be there
Indictments - they're such impersonal things - pieces of paper.

It doesn't matter where Rove is on Friday.

Except, he's going up with The Rapture, too, because, you know, he planned it this way.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #94
105. And he has to be there?
I don't think he has to be present when he is indict. Just a matter of filing the paperwork. Which means that Fitz would have to be there, I would think.

But for republicans, it's always business as usual. Him planning on going to a fundraiser doesn't mean anything at this point. THey don't hid their head in shame when they are 'caught'.
Besides, indicted doesn't mean convicted. So he would STILL want to be showing he is 'innocent' of all charges, etc, etc... No worrys.

Not saying he IS going to be indicted tomarrow. LOL! Just saying that him planning on going to a fundraiser doesn't mean he isn't. In fact, he might want to be out of DC when it comes down.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. No, Fitzgerald doesn't have to be anywhere
An indictment gets filed. It's a clerical thing. No big deal. Then it's announced. That can take place anywhere.

He IS innocent. Hate him or not, I can't give up my belief that Constitutional rights extend to everyone, even Karl Rove. This is America, don't forget.

He's not indicted.

He very well may not be indicted.

What will you do then?

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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. What do you mean?
What will I do? What kind of question is THAT?

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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #115
127. A simple one
A more complex question might have been something like, "I'm thinking that all these bookshelves in this study would really look better if they were stained darker, but that would involve so much work, I'm not sure that it's worth it, but they really would look nice, so what do you think?"
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
93. I am leary when I see articles like these
Edited on Thu May-18-06 04:43 PM by dogday
Rove shows calm amid storm

Can Rove weather the political, legal storm?

Friends say Rove unfazed by threat of indictment

Karl Rove unfazed by possibility of indictment in CIA leak case

Rove Said Unfazed by Chance of Charges

Rove Plays Down Precarious Legal Situation

Colleagues say Rove unfazed by legal woes

Indictment or not, Rove won't be kept down

I could go on and on but I am tired of copying and pasting... Is it me but when the media is all saying how happy Karl is, I put my tinfoil hat on:tinfoilhat:


http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://www.progressiveu.org/094318-holy-smokes-is-it-real-this-time-karl-rove-was-indicted
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. This lyin' theif has done this to so many people in his lifetime
that it is second nature for him until the reality soaks in...arrogant bastard!
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
99. At what point do we end the Rove watch and get on with our lives?
Nothing is going to happen this week apparently since I really doubt "get your affairs in order" means "fly to Chicago next week."

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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #99
106. Well, see, no one ever said
'get your affairs in order.'

See, that's what the judge traditionally tells the defendant at sentencing, and, as you know, there's been no indictment, no trial, no conviction, and no sentencing.

That line, though, is the sort of thing someone who doesn't have a clue about how the law works would come up with, thereby demonstrating his or her total ignorance of reality.

So, Rove, who is not indicted and may well never be indicted, is just working. It's his job. He can go wherever he wants.

And his affairs are not relevant.

That line in that article was hilarious. A real winner.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Do judges even say that?
I've never really worked in criminal law, outside of a brief law clerk experience on the most important trial in the state that year in which we badly lost by putting a clearly delusional man on the stand despite our better judgment.

I always thought this was something said by doctors on soap operas when diagnosing good-looking people with a terminal illness that will in no way impact their good looks.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. Yeah, they say it, after setting the date for turning in
I once had a client who arrived stoned for his sentencing. It was cool - he was gonna get probation - all was settled.

The client, red eyes and all, stood when sentence was about to be pronounced. I had told him, natch, to keep his fucking mouth shut.

The judge asked him if he had anything to say.

"Beam me the fuck up, Scottie!" my brilliant client boomed.

Two years.

He got twenty-four hours to "get his affairs in order."

One of my true high points as defense counsel.
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. LOL!
Some people just don't know when to keep their mouths shut. They just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper. They really are their own worst enemy.

Disclaimer: Any similarity of these sentiments to any person or event is purely coincidental.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #111
121. I have two great stories from my three month crim law "career"
Edited on Thu May-18-06 05:17 PM by theboss
One involves Charles Manson.

The other involves a client getting on the stand and basically undercutting our entire defense of "He was manipulated" by declaring "I WAS IN CHARGE THE WHOLE TIME!!!!!"

My mom has a great story of being on a jury. The defendant was on trial for drug charges. They had a video of the transaction.

The freaking guy was wearing the same jacket in the court room that he had on in the video.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. as soon as something new happens in the Duke rape case or Tony Snow
uses the phrase "call a spade a spade" or something equally earthshattering occurs.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. This is why I could never be in politics
I would use the word "niggardly" at every possibly occasion. Just to watch the blogs explode.
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #110
128. tony snow said "call a spade a spade"?
I knew it. {rumor started}
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #99
118. Not until I see him hippity hoppn' down the frog trail!
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
113. Any Breaking Updates On Raw Story??
:shrug: If anyone can clear up the confusion... I know that the crack team of Raw Story reporters can do the job!
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. National Review has an update -responds to Madsen
comments on the Madsen story

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODExMzllMjViM2M3NmI1NmJhYmJhY2FkM2QxMjE5NTE=

Madsen's report has raised the hopes of Rove indictment fans who have become somewhat dispirited after Leopold's "24 business hours" passed without action against Rove. But it appears that they might again be destined for disappointment, because the details of Madsen's account are, if anything, even more farfetched than Leopold's.

First, a Justice Department source, speaking on background, says that Alberto Gonzales did not go to the courthouse on Friday, May 12.

Second, Gonzales, like his predecessor John Ashcroft, has recused himself from the CIA leak investigation. Gonzales, as White House counsel, had taken part in the White House's response to the Justice Department in the early days of the probe. When he became attorney general, there was no doubt that he would have to recuse himself from the matter. He was asked about it during a press conference in October 2005, when there was great anticipation that indictments were coming in the CIA leak affair, and this is what he had to say:



QUESTION: And does Patrick Fitzgerald will he notify you if he's about to indict anyone? And lastly, is he under any obligation a public report?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: I am recused from this investigation. I have been since coming to the Department of Justice. That means that not only am I recused from making decisions or participating in decisions regarding this investigation, I am recused from receiving information about the investigation. Quite frankly, you probably know more about this case than I do. I do not receive briefings. I do not receive any information about this particular case.

And in terms of what will happen going forward, you you have as much information about that as I do. That's that'll be a decision made by Pat Fitzgerald.


Finally, it simply defies common sense to think that Fitzgerald and the grand jury would give the attorney general a preview of an indictment in the CIA leak matter. "Gonzales would not be given that kind of information," says one insider. "The reason one is recused from the case is so that one cannot make decisions that would affect the case like he might tell the White House."

And one more note. Madsen also reported that Fitzgerald told Rove lawyer Robert Luskin that he, Luskin, is now a "subject" in the probe because Fitzgerald is investigating whether Luskin "may have violated laws on obstruction of justice." I asked Rove spokesman Mark Corallo whether Fitzgerald has informed Luskin that he, Luskin, is a subject of the investigation. "No," was Corallo's answer. And Corallo repeated his earlier denials about the purported meeting last Friday at Patton Boggs. It simply did not happen, Corallo said.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. I Just Don't Know What To Make Of All That.
Thanks! :hi:
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. it's 6:20 EST, still nothing coming from any MSM sources
.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. They Are Still Busy At Their Weekly MSM Meeting...
... deciding which stories to report and which ones to bury.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. ...
:spank:
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shadowlight Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
114. OK, here's my theory.
Feel free to shoot it down.
Fitzgerald meets Rove and attorneys on Fri.
Fitzgerald offers to make a deal with Rove. If Rove doesn't accept the deal Fitzgerald
says he'll bring more charges,
Rove doesn't accept, so Fitzgerald goes back to the GJ on Wed. in order to bring more charges against Rove.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. Well, here is what I think.
Edited on Thu May-18-06 05:19 PM by HereSince1628
There is no evidence Rove met with Fitzgerald on Fri.
There is no evidence that Fitzgerald offered Rove a deal that Rove didn't accept.
There is no evidence that Fitzgerald went back to the GJ yesterday to bring additional charges.

A theory accomodates available evidence. How can you have a theory sans evidence?
What you are doing is rationalizing, creating a story that is going to fit a different story. It's a technique used by creationists.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
129. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
130. Locking
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