Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Christianity and Republican Morals The Great Paradox

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:31 PM
Original message
There are four main pillars of todays Republican Party: 1) Small government especially with respect to those aspects of government that are designed to help people who are especially in need of help; 2) Yet large enough government to pay back their wealthy campaign contributors; 3) Militarism and imperialism i.e., foreign conquest; and 4) Christianity which I put in quotes because the brand of Christianity advocated by todays Republican Party is, quite frankly, bizarre.


The great paradox

The great paradox of todays Republican Party is that the first three pillars noted above are almost totally inconsistent with the last one Christianity. Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. As pointed out by the Christian evangelical minister Gary Vance, in his article Wasnt Jesus a Liberal?, everything Jesus stood for was inconsistent with those first three pillars:

He aligned Himself with the poor and the oppressed. He challenged the religious orthodoxy of His day. He advocated pacifism and loving our enemies. He liberated women and minorities from oppression. Jesus was the original Liberal. He was a progressive, and He was judged and hated for it.

Todays Republican Party is tightly aligned with the wealthy not the poor.

That is evident in their contempt for laws and government programs which are meant to alleviate the burden of the poor, such as laws for the protection of working people, minimum wage laws, supplemental nutrition programs for infants, Social Security, health care for the aged, public education, and protection against national disasters, such as the building of levees to prevent flooding.

It is evident in their tax policies, which have dramatically reduced taxes on the ultra-wealthy, at the expense of all the programs described above.

It is evident in the millions of dollars of campaign donations that they receive from wealthy contributors.

It is evident in the wholesale abandonment of government checks and regulations to prevent the wealthy and the powerful from taking advantage of less fortunate citizens.

And it is evident in the ever widening income gap between rich and poor, with the addition of millions (See page 9) of American citizens to the ranks of poverty, concomitant with greatly expanding wealth for the already wealthy, which has grown to record breaking levels in this country under a Republican President and a compliant Republican Congress and Judiciary.


Rationalization

Of course, because of their need to court the Christian vote, the Republican Party wont admit to any of this.

The reason that they fight for small government, so they claim, is to get government off the backs of ordinary citizens. I doubt that the people of New Orleans would have considered the repair of their levees as having government on their backs, but thats the Republican talking point on this issue, and they stick to it.

The acceptance of millions of dollars in campaign contributions from wealthy individuals and corporations is necessary in order to protect our First Amendments guarantee of free speech, so they claim since everyone knows that money is speech. And they act indignant at the suggestion that favors were expected in return for those contributions.

The invasion of a foreign country, resulting in tens of thousands of dead civilians and soldiers, was justified first on the lie that that country posed a threat to us, and when that lie was exposed our Republican government decided that the invasion was necessary in order spread democracy. And similarly, that government justifies the abuse and torture of its prisoners of war on the supposed threat that those prisoners pose to us.


Christian values

To rub in the point of how far REAL Christian values deviate from the values of todays Republican Party, consider these Christian political accomplishments in our country, as described by Vance:

The labor movement of the early twentieth century was aided significantly when major Christian denominations got behind it. No average American would have a fair wage today if it werent for liberal Christians and labor activists. Liberal Christians and civil rights activists fought and still fight against conservative America for racial equality. Child labor laws were enacted because liberals fought for them. Medicare and Social Security exist today because of Liberalism. Bleeding heart liberals have long advocated for the homeless, the hungry, the less fortunate, and the disenfranchised. The women of America owe liberals a big thank you for their almost equal rights. Tree hugging liberals fight for clean air and water standards instead of favoring industrial polluters and short term profiteering that destroy Gods green earth.

The blending of Christianity and liberalism in the above passage is no accident. The fact of the matter is that, to a very large extent, Christian values ARE liberal values. And anyone with a good understanding of both Christianity and liberalism should know that.


But Republicans also have some Christian values

Yes, Republicans not only have Christian values, but they never let you forget it either. The problem with Republicans as Christians, however, is that they are VERY selective about the Christian values that they embrace. Here are the favorite Christian values of the Republican Party:
 Gay people should not marry each other
 The abortion of a fetus is a crime
 Embryonic stem cells should be thrown away rather than used for research
 No effort should be spared to salvage the life of the brain dead
 Creationism should be taught in public schools
 Christian prayers should be said in public schools

Do you notice any big differences between the set of Christian values that Republicans have contempt for and the other set of Christian values that Republicans base their political campaigns on? Ill offer two huge differences: 1) The first set of Christian values are the ones that Jesus based his ministry on, whereas Jesus never talked about the second set at all as far as I know; and 2) The first set of Christian values are expensive and therefore would cut into the profit margins of the wealthy contributors to the Republican Party, whereas the second set cost nothing at all.


Then why are the Republicans the Christian Party?

Given that Christian moral values, as exemplified in the teachings of Jesus, greatly resemble the moral values of the Democratic Party, whereas they are flatly inconsistent with the moral values of the Republican Party, then how did it come to be that the Republicans are known as the Christian Party, whereas the Democrats in many circles are considered the anti-Christian Party?

No, Im not stupid. I recognize of course that todays Republican Party wants Christian votes, that there is no limit to the hypocrisy that they are willing to practice in order to appeal to those votes, and that governments throughout world history have cynically appealed to religion as a means of maintaining their power.

But still, it seems quite odd that Republicans would pick as one of the main pillars of their party a religion that is against everything that their party stands for. Here is my explanation for that bizarre phenomenon:

Todays Republican Party is a party of insatiable greed, selfishness, corruption, and even immorality. Its pretty difficult to generate political appeal on a platform like that. Yes, they have their rationalizations, as I noted above. But its pretty difficult to get people with a modicum of intelligence to buy into those rationalizations, given how far the actions of the todays Republican Party deviate from general standards of human decency.

Consequently, the Republican Party has adopted the bold strategy of turning logic upside down and pretending to be the exact opposite of what they truly are. They claim to be strict followers of a great moral religion. And to prove it, they adopt a bunch of strict moral codes that cost them nothing, and at the same time which appear to have some resemblance to that religion. By so doing, they hope to turn attention away from the fact that the true moral code of their party, as measured by their actions, is actually empty of morals. And unfortunately, theyve been quite successful in perpetuating this fraud in recent years.


The political consequences

According to exit polls taken during the 2004 presidential election, Christians, who made up 83% of the sample, voted for Bush over Kerry by a 12 point margin, whereas voters of other religions or no religion voted for Kerry by more than a 40 point margin.

The cause behind those unfortunate statistics is that Republicans, through well organized and vicious propaganda campaigns, have convinced many Christians that the Republican Party is the Christian party, and Democrats are anti-Christian. A good example of the kind of inflammatory and deceitful rhetoric spewed out by right wing fanatics to drive Christians away from the Democratic Party can be found in Hugh Hewitts recent book, Painting the Map Red The Fight to Create a Permanent Republican Majority. In his chapter entitled The Democratic Left Has Declared War on Religion, Hewitt says the left is driven toward a political life that would first marginalize, then exclude, and then finally stigmatize serious religious belief.


What to do?

Its hard to know how to combat this deceit and hypocrisy, given the energy, organization, and viciousness with which the right wing propaganda machines, assisted by the corporate news media, perpetuate the myth that Republicans are the party of morals and religion, while Democrats are anti-religion and immoral.

But the effort has to be made. The myth that the Republican Party is the party of Christian values is so far from reality that a vigorous effort to combat that myth surely should have some substantial effect.

As Gary Vance asks at the end of his article, posing questions to Christian Republicans that the Democratic Party probably should be asking as well:

I have some questions for the Christian Right. Why have you not held our current elected majority officials accountable for their failure to address the full spectrum of Christian issues? Why would you vote for them again? It is time for Christians of conscience to stand up to religious and political hypocrisy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Al Franken had an idea
he says really po's the christians, start calling the "christianists".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I don't understand that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. I'm all for calling them Christianists too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I like Christianist
We have to have a word. I respect real Christianity, so I can't call these bastards Christians. I used to use Xtian because I thought it looked like a sort of faux Christianity, but it turned out some Christians felt that was a legitimate abbreviation of Christian. Randi calls them Fristians, but I don't want to associate this with just one man, and if I did, Frist wouldn't be the one I'd choose.

Christianist works for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. I kind of like "Christiness"
like truthiness


:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. That's good
I like it! But we still need a noun for people who follow Christiness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. True
"I believe in Christiness.

Therefor I am a Christianist."


See, they work in tandem! :silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. My first ex-wife was a devout Catholic. Some people she knew
thru her church were in the air force. (Very devout also) When I visited their house once, I saw a large painting over the couch of an air strike in Viet Nam. WTF? I never went back. How anyone can be religious AND a hawk is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I guess it depends on your definition of "religious"
There must be millions or tens or even hundreds of millions of people in the world today, of all religions, who consider themselves "religious", but who nevertheless are enthusiastic about war - mostly people who won't have to fight in the war themselves.

The bottom line is that a certain proportions of Christians, as well as a certain proportion of followers of all religions, are hypocrites. I don't know what the percentage is, but I'm certain that it's somewhere between 0 and 100%.

I'm not a Christian myself, but I certainly admire much of the message that Jesus taught. The fact that many or most of his so-called followers use his name to justify their actions, without actually living his message or even understanding it, doesn't mean that the message isn't worth while.

I do believe that he was one of the founders of liberalism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The gap betwen creed and conduct....
...is greatest among the Christians." -Ghandi
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes, Ghandi once considered becoming a Christian
But his experience with actual Christians convinced him otherwise:
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/552.htm

Hypocrites exist in all places and in all groups.

But we shouldn't reject good ideas just because hypocrites profess to believe them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrateman Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Response
Well, if this country was really founded by Christian values, then why 2 different parties? It should have one basic government in which we as the people should live by. Yes we all have differences in opinion , but thats just it , our opinion. If the bible was the golden rule for this country then let us make it our constitution. To tell u the truth our government and the people of the United States have gone to far in this "Freedom of Speech" privledge. They use it for pratically every issue that concerns freedom...I see it as one can speak there mind , but not as a freedom of creating new laws. Our government suxs to say the least. If our forefathers where alive today, they'd burn the joint down and rebuild. I think its time for the people to seek the old ways of America, I think we would find it a whole better place to live in. But like i said, this is my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. So you're saying that we should be a one party nation?
I don't see what that has to do with Christian values.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. This country was NOT founded on 'Christian values'.
The founding fathers were deists and Freemasons.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

The constitution is a secular document.

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, and not only that
Much of the reason for the establishment of this country was the desire to be free from religious tyranny.

But today's Republicans seem to have forgotten that, or they just don't care.

They go so far in their efforts to get Christians to vote for them that they seem to have no awaremess of the fact that the separation of church and state was one of the founding principles of our nation. And when we object to that they respond with bitter denunciations of the type that I quoted in the OP from rabid idiots like Hewitt:

the left is driven toward a political life that would first marginalize, then exclude, and then finally stigmatize serious religious belief.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The GOP is in a schism
The religious fundamentalists like Pat Robertson who owns diamond mines in South Africa and knowingly exploits natives, and the Country Club Republicans who want the tax breaks minus any social conscience.

They are not nice people. They both want money but just want excuses for their expolitation of workers.

These people entertain me as I ponder how they will gain entrance into the heaven they claim to believe in when they have never cared about anything but money and power in their entire lives.

It would be like Paris Hilton crying about being a victim because her gifts for her mother were stolen. That's today Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes, the leaders of today's Republican Party are the worst kind of
hypocrites.

But they've managed to convince a lot of decent people that they are the party of morality. I have some relatives in that category.

There must be a way to turn this around, but I don't know what it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-16-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Call them unchristian and tell them why
They've read the words. They know they can't weasel out of them. They've just allowed Calvinist preachers to preach them the sermon of permanent wealth and contempt for the poor.

Then walk away. Let them stew.

It packs a wallop. It works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. I think we need to do more than just tell them
I think that we need to publicize this outrage to the general public - reveal the blatant hypocrisy of those self-righcheous Repukes who try to demonize Democrats for their lack of morals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abester Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. I respect your post
Good post really. But I disagree, the paradox is not there. You are simply misinformed about christian morals and ethics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15.  Self delete - accidentally pushed "post"
Edited on Wed May-17-06 07:09 AM by Time for change
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I don't understand what you mean
I am certainly not trying to claim that all, or even most people who call themselves Christians live by a strong moral code (And btw I am not a Christian myself). I don't know how many of them do. And I am well aware that history is full of examples of people or nations doing terrible things in the name of Christianity -- as the Republican Party is doing today.

But Christianity is defined by the teachings of Jesus, some of which I alluded to in my OP -- and I also provided a link to an article by a Christian minister to talks about that in more detail. Do you disagree that Jesus's teachings were about moral values that you could get behind?

Also, Christian organizations have played prominent roles in important social movements in our country. For example:

The anti-slavery movement in our country:
http://www.africanaonline.com/slavery_antislavery.htm
most abolitionists found inspiration in two key strains of American thought: republicanism, the intellectual legacy of the American Revolution, and Protestant Christianity, especially an emotionally charged evangelicalism


And the rights of children:
http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/indepth/0109chil/childl...

And the civil rights movement, in which Martin Luther King's Souther Christian Leadership Council played a major role

Do you disagree that Christian organizations have played important roles in dealing with those important social issues in our country?

Anyhow, the point of my post was NOT to argue that Christianity is a great religion. I don't know that it is better than any other religion. The point of my post was to point out that Christian ideals are very similar in many to our liberal ideas, and more important, that the Republican Party has USED Christianity to hide the fact that their party is without morals and to demonize Democrats and liberals. And my further main point is that this has cost us dearly politically, and we need to fight back on this issue.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R!
:kick: here's another vote. you only need one more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Wow, that was a very strong K & R
Tripled 15 hours worth of votes in less than an hour!

You must have a lot of influence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. Good post. So many issues here.
Edited on Wed May-17-06 10:38 AM by Canuckistanian
I agree with you. These "Christians" do have a rather warped interpretation of what Christ actually said, when they even bother to quote him at all.

They should really call themselves "Old Testamenters", for their message of divine retribution, slaying of "enemies" and absurdly strict codes of behavior and thought. Nowhere to be found are the messages of peace, love for your neighbor, caring for the disadvantaged or tolerance for those you would normally disagree with. ``Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.'' is just a passage in the New Testament and has no importance to them.

I'm reminded of something that happened last year.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=46...

When Missouri Governor Matt Blunt wanted to cut medicaid for the poor, several religious leaders in the state protested the cuts because they said it was an unchristian act, and they were right. This goes explicitly against Christ's teachings and exhortations to help the poor. It was a violation of spirit AND letter of the law, if you will.

But Blunt, a devout Christian, argued that it was morally proper, because "raising taxes is wrong". But the cuts went through and people are suffering because of it. Now, where in the Bible does Christ say raising taxes is wrong? Indeed, the Bible specifically says to render unto Caesar, etc., specifically separating money and spirituality. Money seems to be absolutely bound with their kind of faith, as if Jesus was really talking about the proper acquisition of money.

I could go on and on with many aspects of what you're saying, but suffice to say that you're absolutely correct. Christianity today is nothing like Christ envisioned it.

Just read his words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's a perfect example you provided here
So typical!

That's exactly what they want us all to believe. Anything that cuts into the profit margin of the RICH is morally wrong.

It's amazing that they've succeeded as well as they have in convincing so many people of this. They've certainly had a lot of help from the corporate media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. God and Mammon
Edited on Wed May-17-06 12:13 PM by PATRICK
Mammonites is what the current ruling class are in essence. The alliance with the various Christian cults has always been a monetary relationship of buying and selling each other's souls and profiting in wealth and power together. They had to give up God to do so, all lies told to themselves and others notwithstanding.

If the Bushes were honest Mammonites they would have gone with the Moonies and supplanted Moon with Bush Emperor worship. But honesty is not a Mammonite virtue. "Success" by any means is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Indulgences, offerings, titheing
So many little things mentioned in the Bible get tied into $Money and blown way out of proportion. Even when the original meaning had nothing to do with money.

The only direct mention of the use of money is "thirty pieces of silver".

How very apt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ArmchairMeme Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. K & R
Would Jesus promote a war of choice to kill innocent civilians, deceive our teenage soldiers that they are fighting to be patriotic when it is for profit of chosen people and corporations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Great points
Those are the kinds of things that our Democratic representatives ought to be saying to answer the anti-Christian charges of the Christian Right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they are
What passes as organized Christian religion is far removed from the original teachings of Jesus Christ. He was against organized religion. Religion plays an important part in a lot of folks lives, but there is a big difference between religion & organized religion. All organized religions have a cult like atmosphere & believe they are better than anyone else. So, when you discuss issues with them, remember they have a cult like view of things. Religion is used to sway people to go against their interest that is why is is called the opiate of the masses. Just another method to herd the sheep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The blunt realism of Jesus
Edited on Wed May-17-06 01:52 PM by PATRICK
enshrines more than one warning exactly about false disciples and human "faith". Especially about those who CLAIM loudly they are. Some pretty cutting remarks too that might get Him a flame warning at DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Maybe some of our Democratic leaders should learn a lesson from Him
and become more outspoken themselves, against the attacks of the Repukes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. But I don't think that's the whole story
Yes, religion can and has been used to sway people to go against their interest -- and even to act immorally, as when Bush tries to convince us that everything he does is right because he is acting on the orders of God. And it also often has a cult like atmosphere.

But religion, and even organized religion, is not always like that. It has been used for very good purposes as well, as when Christian organizations have played a major role in this country in the anti-slavery movement, and in the Civil Rights movement, for example.

Also, I noticed at the recent Darfur rally, in DC, to end the genocide in Darfur, Jewish organizations were quite numerous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. It was 38 years ago today that 9 believers acted *against* war.
See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Long live the Catonsville Nine action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. There's an important lesson in that, that we should have learned from the
Viet Nam War. Unfortunately too few people learned it, so we have to go through it again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigolake Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. Christian Paradox from Harpers Magazine
Last fall, Harper's Magazine published an article called the "Christian Paradox" (harpers.org/ExcerptTheChristianParadox.html)about how little Christians in the United States really know about their faith and beliefs.

A startling fact is that 75% of Americans surveyed believe the idea that "God helps those who helps themselves" is a notion found in the Bible. Actually that concept is found nowhere in the Bible, and it goes entirely against the message Jesus gave to love your neighbor.

I think the issue with right wing Christians is more like if you don't stand for something, you shall fall for anything. This article by Harper's Magazine brings to a clearer understanding that Christians in our country will fall for whatever anyone tells them is the basis of their Christian beliefs, likely because they don't know what their faith is all about and have little knowledge about the true life of Jesus.

Knowledge is power... And the right wingers have used this knowledge of Christians to twist Christianity into something that I think Jesus never intended it to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-17-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Welcome to DU indigolake - sounds like a very interesting article
I've had a great desire to conduct some sort of survey of the Christian Right, or Republican voters in general, in order to better understand where they're coming from. Certainly that is something that the Democrats should understand better if they are going to fight this trend.

Unfortunately I don't have a practical mechanism for doing that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigolake Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Thank you, TFC!
I am enjoying my time at DU! Good to be in good company. As a Christian, it is sad to see our faith being twisted and manipulated to control our country in such a distorted way. I pray the truth will one day trump all the lies, and open the eyes of those twisted Christians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
36. The last time I was in a church
invited by fundamentalist in-laws, I bet myself that Jesus would not be quoted even once.

I was right.

The "Religious Right" is an anti-Christian doomsday cult and except for maybe some of it's leadership they don't even know it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. The wonders of the KJV
added to obscurantist misinterpretation that make it not even comprehensible English is not usually enough to keep the meaning of the words away from the public. Jesus' teachings are very often edited out of sermons. This happens in mainstream churches too often as well.

Then when scientific Biblical scholars throw up their hands as to exactly identifying the authentic words and contexts of Jesus they unwittingly throw in the towel to the avoiders. This is one Founder who is a vast inconvenience to the institution that desires to fit into the World like hand into glove- by the simple nature of the worst human evils.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I hadn't exactly thought of it that way
But in a large sense that is true. They are anti-Christian. I wish that message would get out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
38. Good read
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:24 AM by buddyhollysghost
Well organized piece there.

K&R


On edit, can't nominate. It's too late, but I tried :P

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Thanks for trying
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deFaultLine Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Nice
I had to comment on this as well.

I do think that the original Mosaic Law had some fine things about it, much of which pertained to the poor and how they were to be provided for. Check out Leviticus 19: 9,10 where it tells landowners to leave the corners of the fields for the poor to glean from. A whole book is devoted to charity--Ruth, another book deals with the potential consequences for not obeying the commandment to take care of the poor--Amos.

I can see the rich, conservative landowners talking to eachother back when Amos was doing his thing. "Like who is this God guy anyway? What makes Him think he can tell us what to do with our property?" :eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Good points
These Christian right wingers are not, in many respects, a new phenomenon. The whole history of mankind involves the fight against the rich and powerful.

And history is filled with hypocrisy as well.

I wonder though if the extent to which these wealthy and powerful right wing "Christians" have appropriated a religion that was originally designed to expose and combat them has taken the art of hypocrisy to a new level?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. Fantastic post.
The hypocracy is absolutely maddening to me. But what's more frustrating is that people who support and vote for these fucktards for "moral values" reasons are so willingly blind to the hypocracy. It's almost difficult to believe that people fall for it.

The points you made in your post can not be over-emphasized or repeated enough, IMO. Keep it real, keep pointing out the truth. Maybe, eventually, more people will wake up. In the meantime, I'll keep holding my breath.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Thank you. I agree, the hypocrisy is maddening
Maybe in the not too far distant future we will have a President who has the courage to stand up and call them what they are, and who will help our country back on the road to decency. I see a number of possibilities on the horizen :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jun 23rd 2017, 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC