Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Photo epitomizes why the rest of the world hates the U.S.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:14 PM
Original message
Photo epitomizes why the rest of the world hates the U.S.
Edited on Mon May-15-06 03:15 PM by Jara sang
?

U.S. soldiers prepare to swim at a pool run by the Australian military at Camp Victory in Baghdad, Iraq, April 9, 2006. Top U.S. and coalition commanders and their staffs now enjoy an array of modern conveniences and amenities across the command center. (AP Photo/Antonio Castaneda)

It shows why Americans "just don't get it" when they wonder why the entire hates hates the U.S. and our foreign policies. Flaunting American lifestyle and half naked women walking around with M-16s isn't going to win hearts and minds. Camp Victory is in Abu Ghurayb, arguably the most sensitive place in Iraq when it comes to U.S./Iraqi relations. This is a Muslim country, why don't those soldiers TRY to respect the local customs? Fuck it, I guess it's just easier for them to just blow peoples heads off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow. This pic is disgraceful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. "Bikini's" aren't the point!
Excess in a poverty-striken country with little clean water, intermittent electricity and lavish excess while Iraqi's struggle to survive IS THE POINT!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Those aren't women....
Women are not allowed in the Arab military. Those are 'men with female genitalia' if I remember my first Gulf War rhetoric correctly. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
keta11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am not offended!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think our foreign policy has far more to do with it
This may not be the way women dress in the Muslim world, but I think foreign policy has far more to do with it.

And as far as respecting local customs go, we should be careful about legitimizing that line of argument. Conservatives argue that local customs should be respected in conservative states that want to ban gay marriage. The local customs and values of those communities frown on homosexuality, so therefore gays who live there should not try to marry, or adopt children, or be open about their sexual preference. A very dangerous line of argument.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. That sword can cut both ways
Back in the day (mid 70's) military personnel from ME countries were training at Lackland Plane Patch. It was common to see the men holding hands. Well, you can imagine the reaction. And it wasn't just homophobia; DPA (displays of personal affection) on anyone's part was strictly forbidden while in uniform; it was sucking around for an Art 15. Mucho hubbub, then the Word came down. Ignore it. It was customary in their culture and they were our allies and guests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bear in mind I don't think we should have invade at all
But having invaded, is it reasonable to expect our woman to wear the Burkah? I mean I get that woman wearing bathing suits is offensive to some more orthodox Muslims (along with a number of other activities woman in the United States do all the time), but do you let them set the standards?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Bikinis???
Why not just let troops run around naked?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Okay, but only the hot babes....
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. kick
Edited on Mon May-15-06 04:17 PM by 0007
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. That's a good response. Really puts me in my place.
But seriously, where do you draw the line?

Do you think woman should be allowed to wear bikinis if they choose to (I mean in general)?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I don't give a shit what people wear.
I do care when peoples thoughtless actions have an impact on foreign policy and though it may seem insignificant to you, it doesn't seem that way to millions of Iraqis. Here is an example of the negative impact of thoughtless U.S. occupiers:

http://uruknet.info/?p=m23130
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Where would you draw the line?
Should American Woman in Iraq be required to wear the Burkah? I might be misremembering that - I mean the veil.

Bryant

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. I hear you.
Edited on Mon May-15-06 04:21 PM by quantessd
What, these (usually) hardworking soldiers can't take a break and wear 2-piece bathing suits by the pool? What would the OP suggest they wear, victorian-era swimwear? :eyes:

Anyone who doesn't like to see it, can look the other way. This photo itself is gratuitous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. I didn't see any Iraqis having to view these servicewomen

The site says they got the pictures from yahoo. There are sites they can get pictures of American service men and women doing other things in their tents and such if they searched hard enough.

So everything a service member does in Iraq out of site of Iraqis that is not accepted by their customs is "thoughtless"? It's hardly as if those two young women woke up one day and said they wanted to invade Iraq, they are doing a job they signed up for and following orders without regard to the politics behind those orders. If the site you linked to wants to dig for things to upset certain people that is their choice to provoke people not the actions of the two women in the picture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texasleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. "Flaunting American lifestyle and half naked women"
So much for feminism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. What I am offended by are the luxuries the US and its allies....
Edited on Mon May-15-06 03:23 PM by Missy M
are obviously enjoying versus the suffering of the Iraqi people. I'll bet they don't want the Iraqi people seeing this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. That is what I meant by "flaunting".
There are 100,000 Iraqi civilians who have been blown apart by this war. Seeing Americans coming to their country and living "la vida loca" is not the image the US wants to project.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. When clean drinking water and water treatment are at a premium...
We're out swimming while Iraqi's are fighting over bottled tap water and avoiding rivers of sewage flowing in the streets.

THAT'S why. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Bingo!! M-16 touting bikini babes is not the issue..
...the arrogant display of capitalist greed that Camp Victory displays is the issue...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sorry but I disagree...
Camp Victory is behind 20/30ft tall walls. It is a city unto itself, and those gun-toting bikini babes would be nowhere close to any area of "sensitivity" or curious Muslim eyes...

If this behaviour was occurring OUTSIDE those walls, and in direct contradiction with local customs I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but that isn't the case here.

Flame away if you will, but I think you're wrong on this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You are so wrong on this one.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/abu_g...

The Abu Ghurayb palace in Baghdad is the home of Cobra Base, headquarters of Coalition Joint Task Force-7 . The security and access control of Cobra Base is important, since it is a chief meeting ground for military and civilian officials and dignitaries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
56. But don't you think they employ locals?
I bet they hire locals to do housekeeping and other tasks. These people surely tell their friends and neighbors what life is like inside the compound--luxury compared to what the average Iraqi goes through.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. You are WAY off base....
...those are not "women" desecrating Islam-These are soldiers risking their lives to support US policy,no matter how misguided.A few points are in order here-they are off duty,on a military base,in a country that routinely sports triple digit heat.That said,prior to Saddam's fall Iraq was one of the LEAST Islamic countries in the area....The fact that Islamic religious crazies don't like it is irrelevent and if their "rules" are our idea of "spreading democracy" it is again our policies at fault....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. If you read the article they are top US and coaltion commanders
and their staffs enjoying the amenities, not the soldiers risking their lives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Yes, but look at those troops
They look to be in their 20s, and one is carrying an M-16. They look like jr. NCOs and non-rates to me, though obviously it's hard to tell in a bikini. I think the point was that top leaders and staff get a lot of ameneties, but the troops at least get a pool. Note also the photo caption called them "troops", which generally means enlisted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Nice buttstock
on that M-16
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
simonm Donating Member (386 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Whats wrong with a little relaxation?
The location is most likely isolated from the rest of the city and I doubt other countries are as restrictive with women.

Besides, I finally found a reason to sign up for shrubby's war!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. What about this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. How disgraceful! Those young women should be in chadors and
Edited on Mon May-15-06 03:37 PM by mgdecombe
forced to grind their own flour for hours as they squat on swept dirt floors.

Yeah, this is the disgrace of our nation, not the fact that we invade other countries and murder their citizens in a bid to steal their oil. Yeah, it's always the women in bikinis that bring down a nation.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You are missing the point entirely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. OK, help me out, what's the point?
That troops shouldn't have swimming pools in bases in a warzone? I guess there's an argument for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. The point is...
they should be wearing this type of swimwear

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. please tell me you aren't serious.
....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. *I'm* not serious, but that website is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. Not when regular citizens don't have access to clean water n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Woof.....
I disagree with the anemities in the face of the suffering Iraqis, but chicks in bikinis carrying rifles - that's too hot! }( }( }(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. You lost me there
They're on a US base, behind huge walls and barriers, a long way from any Iraqis. Should the female soldiers stay in burkhas?

When we were in Kuwait and Bahrain they were very big about what we wore when we went out (and they tried to talk around the fact that it only really mattered what the females in the unit wore, by pretending these were gender-neutral rules). But honestly of all the problems with this war, female soldiers taking a break to swim isn't one of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IselaB Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't see the problem
Edited on Mon May-15-06 03:41 PM by IselaB
They're off-duty soldiers on a military base going for a swim. I've seen plenty of pictures and video of male soldiers in swimming trunks, and that would offend fundamentalist Muslims as well. And Iraq isn't Taliban Afghanistan (at least not yet), so it's not like women are expected to run around in burkas. Many Iraqis in urban areas dress in Western styles. Although I'm not sure if bikinis are generally acceptable, I don't think they'd be that shocking either.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. Tatoos on the small of their backs...
Edited on Mon May-15-06 03:40 PM by Squatch
might as well be bullseyes. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PunkPop Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. Tramp stamps
Learned that from a co-worker of the younger generation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. Considering what our troops have to go through over there....
...I'm inclined to cut them a break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm not buyin' it
They're entitled to some R&R and any comforts of home they can get. And it isn't like they're dressed like this on the streets of downtown Baghdad.

Support the troops much?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. My, but aren't you obtuse?
Your attitude is very provincial. I would hate to do any world travelling with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. So, you'd be ok with this if the US invaded Ipanema Beach?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. If you plan to travel to the middle of a combat zone
then I'd likewise hate to be with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
38. So military people aren't allowed R&R on a huge US base?
They're not walking around the streets of the city. They are on a huge US base and walking to a swimming pool.

OH THE HORROR !!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meisje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. I agree, they should be wearing full uniform when swimming
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. Shocking! Disgraceful! Utterly disgusting!
Got any more?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. This thread is boneheaded
Seriously.

1) The rest of the world doesn't hate the US.
2) Iraqi women were not under Sharia law (until recently in only some parts of the country) - you don't even know what the local customs are
3) This picture was taken on a US base
4) You should see the soldiers in Israel out at the nightclubs with their machine guns
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. i support this message
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Soldier-bashing. Against DU rules
Do not post broad-brush smears against US service people. Do not blame the troops for the mistakes of their officers or their Commander-in-Chief. Show the appropriate level of respect to those individuals who have put their own lives on the line to defend this country.

I suggest you quit slagging our troops on these boards, and take your opinions directly to them at a local US military base. They can answer your concerns a lot better than people can here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
50. Shit. If the army looks like that...
Sign me up. :patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
52. i think this picture is hilarious
it makes us look bad, but wtf doesnt?

I kinda wish i had an AK for when im wearing my bathing suit ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. a tradition as old as the myth of Adam and Eve
blame women for everything...

and another old saw; the female body is evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
55. I don't think the half-naked part is the problem
They are on base, so the country's customs are out the window. For all intents and purposes, a base might as well be American soil. Putting this at Abu Ghraib is unconscionable. That's a big problem. Also, if the people in the country still lack regular electricity (and they do), and sufficient clean running water in places, then opening a pool at all is just plain wrong. We broke it, we should be fixing it pronto.

The kids who got send on this mission, mostly not due to their own fault, should be allowed to relax in the manner they are used to, though, IMO. I would not expect women to wear veils, these are American women, that veil is a religious/culture thing, a religion that most of our women don't ascribe to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. Umm. Iraq was a secular country.
...run by a secular dictator. Maybe in Saudi Arabia your argument would fly, but Iraq is used to seeing women in small outfits...even if they have tacky tatoos on their backs.

Who invented these?



The Babylonians maybe? Where was Babylon?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoadRunner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
58. Locking
From the DU Rules:

"Do not post broad-brush smears against US service people. Do not blame the troops for the mistakes of their officers or their Commander-in-Chief. Show the appropriate level of respect to those individuals who have put their own lives on the line to defend this country."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 18th 2018, 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC