Photo epitomizes why the rest of the world hates the U.S.

[Jara sang]

?

U.S. soldiers prepare to swim at a pool run by the Australian military at Camp Victory in Baghdad, Iraq, April 9, 2006. Top U.S. and coalition commanders and their staffs now enjoy an array of modern conveniences and amenities across the command center. (AP Photo/Antonio Castaneda)

It shows why Americans "just don't get it" when they wonder why the entire hates hates the U.S. and our foreign policies. Flaunting American lifestyle and half naked women walking around with M-16s isn't going to win hearts and minds. Camp Victory is in Abu Ghurayb, arguably the most sensitive place in Iraq when it comes to U.S./Iraqi relations. This is a Muslim country, why don't those soldiers TRY to respect the local customs? Fuck it, I guess it's just easier for them to just blow peoples heads off.

[fooj]

1. Wow. This pic is disgraceful.

[Mugsy]

36. "Bikini's" aren't the point!

Excess in a poverty-striken country with little clean water, intermittent electricity and lavish excess while Iraqi's struggle to survive IS THE POINT!

[sutz12]

2. Those aren't women....

Women are not allowed in the Arab military. Those are 'men with female genitalia' if I remember my first Gulf War rhetoric correctly. :)

[keta11]

3. I am not offended!!!

[bluestateguy]

4. I think our foreign policy has far more to do with it

This may not be the way women dress in the Muslim world, but I think foreign policy has far more to do with it.

And as far as respecting local customs go, we should be careful about legitimizing that line of argument. Conservatives argue that local customs should be respected in conservative states that want to ban gay marriage. The local customs and values of those communities frown on homosexuality, so therefore gays who live there should not try to marry, or adopt children, or be open about their sexual preference. A very dangerous line of argument.

[sarge43]

19. That sword can cut both ways

Back in the day (mid 70's) military personnel from ME countries were training at Lackland Plane Patch. It was common to see the men holding hands. Well, you can imagine the reaction. And it wasn't just homophobia; DPA (displays of personal affection) on anyone's part was strictly forbidden while in uniform; it was sucking around for an Art 15. Mucho hubbub, then the Word came down. Ignore it. It was customary in their culture and they were our allies and guests.

[bryant69]

5. Bear in mind I don't think we should have invade at all

But having invaded, is it reasonable to expect our woman to wear the Burkah? I mean I get that woman wearing bathing suits is offensive to some more orthodox Muslims (along with a number of other activities woman in the United States do all the time), but do you let them set the standards?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jara sang]

9. Bikinis???

Why not just let troops run around naked?

[truebrit71]

14. Okay, but only the hot babes....

:evilgrin:

[0007]

46. kick

[bryant69]

15. That's a good response. Really puts me in my place.

But seriously, where do you draw the line?

Do you think woman should be allowed to wear bikinis if they choose to (I mean in general)?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jara sang]

23. I don't give a shit what people wear.

I do care when peoples thoughtless actions have an impact on foreign policy and though it may seem insignificant to you, it doesn't seem that way to millions of Iraqis. Here is an example of the negative impact of thoughtless U.S. occupiers:

http://uruknet.info/?p=m23130

[bryant69]

28. Where would you draw the line?

Should American Woman in Iraq be required to wear the Burkah? I might be misremembering that - I mean the veil.

Bryant

[Quantess]

49. I hear you.

What, these (usually) hardworking soldiers can't take a break and wear 2-piece bathing suits by the pool? What would the OP suggest they wear, victorian-era swimwear?:eyes:

Anyone who doesn't like to see it, can look the other way. This photo itself is gratuitous.

[RB TexLa]

39. I didn't see any Iraqis having to view these servicewomen

The site says they got the pictures from yahoo. There are sites they can get pictures of American service men and women doing other things in their tents and such if they searched hard enough.

So everything a service member does in Iraq out of site of Iraqis that is not accepted by their customs is "thoughtless"? It's hardly as if those two young women woke up one day and said they wanted to invade Iraq, they are doing a job they signed up for and following orders without regard to the politics behind those orders. If the site you linked to wants to dig for things to upset certain people that is their choice to provoke people not the actions of the two women in the picture.

[texasleo]

6. "Flaunting American lifestyle and half naked women"

So much for feminism.

[Missy M]

7. What I am offended by are the luxuries the US and its allies....

are obviously enjoying versus the suffering of the Iraqi people. I'll bet they don't want the Iraqi people seeing this.

[Jara sang]

11. That is what I meant by "flaunting".

There are 100,000 Iraqi civilians who have been blown apart by this war. Seeing Americans coming to their country and living "la vida loca" is not the image the US wants to project.

[Mugsy]

8. When clean drinking water and water treatment are at a premium...

We're out swimming while Iraqi's are fighting over bottled tap water and avoiding rivers of sewage flowing in the streets.

THAT'S why. :P

[truebrit71]

13. Bingo!! M-16 touting bikini babes is not the issue..

...the arrogant display of capitalist greed that Camp Victory displays is the issue...

[truebrit71]

10. Sorry but I disagree...

Camp Victory is behind 20/30ft tall walls. It is a city unto itself, and those gun-toting bikini babes would be nowhere close to any area of "sensitivity" or curious Muslim eyes...

If this behaviour was occurring OUTSIDE those walls, and in direct contradiction with local customs I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but that isn't the case here.

Flame away if you will, but I think you're wrong on this one.

[Jara sang]

16. You are so wrong on this one.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/abu_ghurayb-cc.htm

The Abu Ghurayb palace in Baghdad is the home of Cobra Base, headquarters of Coalition Joint Task Force-7 . The security and access control of Cobra Base is important, since it is a chief meeting ground for military and civilian officials and dignitaries.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. But don't you think they employ locals?

I bet they hire locals to do housekeeping and other tasks. These people surely tell their friends and neighbors what life is like inside the compound--luxury compared to what the average Iraqi goes through.

[catnhatnh]

12. You are WAY off base....

...those are not "women" desecrating Islam-These are soldiers risking their lives to support US policy,no matter how misguided.A few points are in order here-they are off duty,on a military base,in a country that routinely sports triple digit heat.That said,prior to Saddam's fall Iraq was one of the LEAST Islamic countries in the area....The fact that Islamic religious crazies don't like it is irrelevent and if their "rules" are our idea of "spreading democracy" it is again our policies at fault....

[Missy M]

18. If you read the article they are top US and coaltion commanders

and their staffs enjoying the amenities, not the soldiers risking their lives.

[Recursion]

30. Yes, but look at those troops

They look to be in their 20s, and one is carrying an M-16. They look like jr. NCOs and non-rates to me, though obviously it's hard to tell in a bikini. I think the point was that top leaders and staff get a lot of ameneties, but the troops at least get a pool. Note also the photo caption called them "troops", which generally means enlisted.

[Squatch]

35. Nice buttstock

on that M-16

[simonm]

17. Whats wrong with a little relaxation?

The location is most likely isolated from the rest of the city and I doubt other countries are as restrictive with women.

Besides, I finally found a reason to sign up for shrubby's war!

[Jim Warren]

20. What about this?

http://www.members.cox.net/flybox/FishingUpdate.htm#Muy%20Grande%20Carpio

[gardenista]

21. How disgraceful! Those young women should be in chadors and

forced to grind their own flour for hours as they squat on swept dirt floors.

Yeah, this is the disgrace of our nation, not the fact that we invade other countries and murder their citizens in a bid to steal their oil. Yeah, it's always the women in bikinis that bring down a nation.

:eyes:

[Jara sang]

27. You are missing the point entirely.

[Recursion]

32. OK, help me out, what's the point?

That troops shouldn't have swimming pools in bases in a warzone? I guess there's an argument for that.

[Squatch]

33. The point is...

they should be wearing this type of swimwear

[Quantess]

51. please tell me you aren't serious.

....

[Squatch]

53. *I'm* not serious, but that website is.

[MountainLaurel]

43. Not when regular citizens don't have access to clean water n/t

[4_TN_TITANS]

22. Woof.....

I disagree with the anemities in the face of the suffering Iraqis, but chicks in bikinis carrying rifles - that's too hot! }( }( }(

[Recursion]

24. You lost me there

They're on a US base, behind huge walls and barriers, a long way from any Iraqis. Should the female soldiers stay in burkhas?

When we were in Kuwait and Bahrain they were very big about what we wore when we went out (and they tried to talk around the fact that it only really mattered what the females in the unit wore, by pretending these were gender-neutral rules). But honestly of all the problems with this war, female soldiers taking a break to swim isn't one of them.

[IselaB]

25. I don't see the problem

They're off-duty soldiers on a military base going for a swim. I've seen plenty of pictures and video of male soldiers in swimming trunks, and that would offend fundamentalist Muslims as well. And Iraq isn't Taliban Afghanistan (at least not yet), so it's not like women are expected to run around in burkas. Many Iraqis in urban areas dress in Western styles. Although I'm not sure if bikinis are generally acceptable, I don't think they'd be that shocking either.

[Squatch]

26. Tatoos on the small of their backs...

might as well be bullseyes. :evilgrin:

[PunkPop]

47. Tramp stamps

Learned that from a co-worker of the younger generation.

[Sammy Pepys]

29. Considering what our troops have to go through over there....

...I'm inclined to cut them a break.

[Oeditpus Rex]

31. I'm not buyin' it

They're entitled to some R&R and any comforts of home they can get. And it isn't like they're dressed like this on the streets of downtown Baghdad.

Support the troops much?

[Jara sang]

34. My, but aren't you obtuse?

Your attitude is very provincial. I would hate to do any world travelling with you.

[Squatch]

37. So, you'd be ok with this if the US invaded Ipanema Beach?

[Oeditpus Rex]

41. If you plan to travel to the middle of a combat zone

then I'd likewise hate to be with you.

[tabasco]

38. So military people aren't allowed R&R on a huge US base?

They're not walking around the streets of the city. They are on a huge US base and walking to a swimming pool.

OH THE HORROR !!

[meisje]

40. I agree, they should be wearing full uniform when swimming

[Balbus]

42. Shocking! Disgraceful! Utterly disgusting!

Got any more?

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. This thread is boneheaded

Seriously.

1) The rest of the world doesn't hate the US.
2) Iraqi women were not under Sharia law (until recently in only some parts of the country) - you don't even know what the local customs are
3) This picture was taken on a US base
4) You should see the soldiers in Israel out at the nightclubs with their machine guns

[rman]

45. i support this message

[brentspeak]

48. Soldier-bashing. Against DU rules

Do not post broad-brush smears against US service people. Do not blame the troops for the mistakes of their officers or their Commander-in-Chief. Show the appropriate level of respect to those individuals who have put their own lives on the line to defend this country.

I suggest you quit slagging our troops on these boards, and take your opinions directly to them at a local US military base. They can answer your concerns a lot better than people can here.

[Renew Deal]

50. Shit. If the army looks like that...

Sign me up. :patriot:

[lies and propaganda]

52. i think this picture is hilarious

it makes us look bad, but wtf doesnt?

I kinda wish i had an AK for when im wearing my bathing suit ;)

[idgiehkt]

54. a tradition as old as the myth of Adam and Eve

blame women for everything...

and another old saw; the female body is evil.

[Sinti]

55. I don't think the half-naked part is the problem

They are on base, so the country's customs are out the window. For all intents and purposes, a base might as well be American soil. Putting this at Abu Ghraib is unconscionable. That's a big problem. Also, if the people in the country still lack regular electricity (and they do), and sufficient clean running water in places, then opening a pool at all is just plain wrong. We broke it, we should be fixing it pronto.

The kids who got send on this mission, mostly not due to their own fault, should be allowed to relax in the manner they are used to, though, IMO. I would not expect women to wear veils, these are American women, that veil is a religious/culture thing, a religion that most of our women don't ascribe to.

[Touchdown]

57. Umm. Iraq was a secular country.

...run by a secular dictator. Maybe in Saudi Arabia your argument would fly, but Iraq is used to seeing women in small outfits...even if they have tacky tatoos on their backs.

Who invented these?



The Babylonians maybe? Where was Babylon?

[RoadRunner]

58. Locking

From the DU Rules:

"Do not post broad-brush smears against US service people. Do not blame the troops for the mistakes of their officers or their Commander-in-Chief. Show the appropriate level of respect to those individuals who have put their own lives on the line to defend this country."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html