Think the NSA database is no big deal? It's a political nightmare

[Canuckistanian]

Consider this. Here's a huge database of call records. Pretty innocuous, as most people's calling patterns don't make much sense to monitor. A small circle of friends, acquaintances, businesses.

But think about what a POLITICAL GOLDMINE this is.

Imagine having all the records of every call John Kerry ever made. Every person he talked to. Every organization he talked to or that contacted him. And when. Increased call frequency from Harry Reid's office could mean something big is about to happen in the Senate. Even Arlen Specter could be closely watched.

Imagine every journalist's call investigating a story about government crimes. You could find out who's talking to whom and judging by the stories they write, exactly what they said. Who needs a wiretap? Background sources could easily be deduced.

Imagine having a record of Patrick Fitzgerald's calls. They could figure out if Rove's really in trouble or if Fitz is on the right track, just by seeing who he talked to.

Some unscrupulous political operatives would kill for such a list.

And now, they have it.

[ewagner]

1. Bye-bye whistleblowers

bye-bye leaks of stories about the administration doing illegal activities...

because they can track every phone call made to the reporters and from the agency where the leak originated....

that may be the real purpose of this.....

[Canuckistanian]

5. Yeah, I forgot that

Also could be used to keep those GOP Congressmen in line.

[AuntiBush]

36. And, Learning of their Corporation Buddies Future BIG Lawsuit Plans

Then BINGO, the victims surviving spouse gets royally screwed in a shoe-in case. Lawyers might get tapped, and placed in unwanted positions.

Just sayin'

[warrens]

39. A whistleblower at P&G was tracked down just that way

This is going to blow up in their faces.

[kestrel91316]

41. I think you're onto something here.................

Tracking the WHISTLEBLOWERS...............

[EVDebs]

44. Yes indeed. And ask yourself 'why the duplication' in DSS vs Offshore

program of total information awareness, set up in the Bahamas:

Bahamas Firm Screens Personal Data To Assess Risk
Operation Avoids U.S. Privacy Rules

By Robert O'Harrow Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36853-20...

And since any of the datamining companies, like ChoicePoint, can sent whatever corrupted and/or accurate or not info they have, you end up with an ability to selectively punish your political opposition from offshore. Combine RFIDs (see book Spychips by Katherine Albrecht) and 'background checks' for employment and you further your harassment capabilities.

Rove would love this.

BTW, the Defense Security Service (DSS) is already charged with responsibility for doing background checks on most of these security issues. Why the newly required duplication ? If not for a backdoor harassment capability ...

[No New War]

2. Yeah, the potential abuses are innumerable

Do they really think we're stupid enough to accept this bullsh*t in the name of "National Security?"

I will never be afraid of anything to the point of giving up my rights willingly. To fall short even a hair is to dishonor everything this country and constitution stand for.

[Iowa]

26. Exactly!

How many who are alive today, and how many of our ancestors have endured horrible injury and even death over the past 200+ years - just to protect our freedom from oppression? And government spying on US citizens WILL result in oppression if left unchecked; there's no doubt about it. Any American who would willingly relinquish their right to privacy to a bumbling dictator wannabee is a sniveling coward - and a traitor. The Bush regime poses a far greater threat to our freedom than any foe in existence today.

[henslee]

3. You could not be more right. And the fact they had access to these

records for so long.... its frightening. Leakers and WH whistleblowers exposed. Alliances revealed.
I want heads to roll on this one.

[C_U_L8R]

4. Or doctor's call records

or attorneys or tax preparers or .....

the implications are staggering
and the heinousness of this CRIME
is disgusting. Bush and the his Cabal
need to be behind bars... NOW !

[AuntiBush]

37. You Got It.

Orwell 1984.

I want all of it destroyed! And, want a real big former apology. I can just hear them laughing all the way to the bank, courtesy of tax-dollars.

Greed. The biggest root to all evil.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. Not only that, but you can tip people off if someone looks like they are

having an affair etc (enemies). Reporters, Drudge types etc.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Good point

Blackmail is a cinch when you know who's calling whom.

Aha, so maybe that's why so many Dems chicken out on crucial issues!

I can just hear the phone call now, "Hey you don't know me, but I know something about you...."

[sable302]

7. it does go a long way to explaining

why the gop and their talking points seem to be always one stap ahead of the dems.

[Canuckistanian]

8. Or are so quick with their "responses"

Almost like they had a while to think about it. Before it happened.

[WiseButAngrySara]

9. BINGO! How was THIS story leaked? Another poster said that rumor

had the 'leakers' as Verizon (i think)...

[On the Road]

23. I Didn't Leak It (I Promise)

but I can imagine a lot of my coworkers at Verizon would have been outraged enough to spill the beans if they knew about the database. (If I had had any idea, I might have, too.)

The argument that "it's only phone numbers" is ridiculous. All the former Bell companies have historically been extremely protective of their customers' calling records. Nothing was given without a warrant. That's what shocks me so much. In fact, the closer you were to the old way of doing things, the more appalled you probably are now.

[WiseButAngrySara]

28. Appalled is a good word for it! I just hope that America wakes up

with horror and rage at this latest rape of of 'freedoms'...

[unpossibles]

29. warrants?

what are those? I seem to remember those back in the day, but I get the feeling they aren't important anymore.

ah, let's just sit back and bask in the Bill of Right - good ol' #2; they'll never take mah gun! Tha's the only one what counts!!1! </sarcasm>

[bleever]

11. We still have no direct denial of the use of this info for

political means. But we know that they have never passed up an advantage, legal or otherwise.

[Canuckistanian]

33. That's telling in itself, IMHO

They've scrupulously avoided or deflected questions about anything other than spying on Terrists.

But they haven't explained anything about the legal safeguards for the rest of the citizens who have nothing to do with any illegal activity.

We can't eliminate the possibility if they can't explain the safeguards.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. IMHO, I don't think Fitz makes any calls that aren't on a VERY....

...secure line. I also bet that Fitz has a team of guys that are very good at sweeping for bugs, and/or any other surveillance system.

I think that may be what's bugging the NeoCons the most about Fitz...he doesn't leak, and he can't be surveilled.

[TahitiNut]

20. Don't kid yourself. The NSA has the absolute best IT technology.

Much of it classified, there's not much in the world that the NSA can't slice through like the proverbial hot knife through butter. There's not a damned thing on the retail market thay can't easily break.

[Solo_in_MD]

13. This is why shagphones are your friends

[Canuckistanian]

16. Shagphones?

What are these 'Shagphones', of which you speak?

[TahitiNut]

22. Disposables.

So-called. People can buy a cell phone to work on a network (like T-mobile) and then buy minutes retail. No "account" - nothing to connect a name to the number. There are throw-away cell phones like disposable cameras that come with some number of minutes. Additional minutes can be bought.

They're called "shag phones" because they get used by married people having an affair (shagging) to keep the spouse from seeing the number on the billing.

[Canuckistanian]

25. I googled it just to be sure

It seems like a good idea from now on for anyone who wants to keep things truly private (and I don't mean affairs).

Unless they try to track those, too.

[Justice Is Comin]

14. And how much you want to bet

if it wasn't for Specters four hearings, we would never have had this blockbuster?

Now we might have the lie to nail Gonzalez besides.

[European Socialist]

15. This post needs to go to weasels Bayh and Vilsac, who thought we ...

shouldn't make a fuss over the NSA issue.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Who thinks this isn't a big deal?

I woke up this morning, turned on the TV, and my jaw hasn't left the floor yet.

This strikes me as one of the biggest stories of the last six years.

[Canuckistanian]

18. The RWers don't -they're in full ignore mode on this

I heard Roger Hedgecock subbing for Rush Pillbaugh today. He gave the story about 5 minutes, mostly to dismiss it as no big deal.

He even brought up censoring of soldier's letters in WWII!

They're scared now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Oh, you mean the backwash.

They know it's wrong, and everybody who hears them knows it's wrong, and they're just digging their own grave.

[nolabels]

46. Last night turned on a radio sport show to hear something other politics

The normally A-political host was screaming at the top of lungs about the phone-fiasco not being nothing at all. I listened for a few minutes, the amount of his being in denial was astounding. Some people have their tipping point and some are just a little different than others. The idea of politics on a sports show that shuns politics kind of says to me that the doo-do is getting deep.

[European Socialist]

19. This post needs to be at the top of the heap or the Home Page.

Everybody needs to know what can be done with calling patterns.

[LSK]

21. you are right, querying a database is easy to do

select * from tbl where firstname = 'Kerry' and lastname = 'John' and date = '11/04/2004'

Who knows how many times a query was run and a report was created on someone.

[infogirl]

27. They have been hacking and listening to me for three years...

I worked for JK for two years...and I was hacked when I was up in New Hampshire...studied election fraud...and they took my donw off the internet...AOL, will not give me my files or address book...not even family book...and my phone clicks all darn day....many know, even JK...he said on Russert, "they're spying on AOL emails!" I have nothing to hide...and now they watch my current race of employment...they are scum! :puke:

[WinkyDink]

30. Key "flag" words: Gannon; crack; Lincoln Bedroom; leash; whip;

you get the idea!

[Roland99]

31. Business rivals' calls?

Spouses' calls?

Kids' calls?

Bosses' calls?

Neighbors' calls?

[KAT119]

32. K&R!! Thank you....This is vast (right wing conspiracy) for sure!!

[Canuckistanian]

34. You're welcome

My pleasure and honor. I truly hope this debacle is the wake-up call.

[jayctravis]

35. wonder whose computer that information is all on? (n/t)

[Kolesar]

38. Good insight on the Fitz calls. I was thinking the WH has blackmailed...

...political opponents to make them STFU.

[Marr]

40. I really suspect there's alot of actually listening going on as well.

There's no doubt in my mind that they're actually listening in on the calls of their political and business opposition. I mean c'mon- these guys have abused every power and responsibility they've been handed. Why wouldn't they abuse a *secret and illegal* program- especially when that program offers the sort of edge that wiretaps-on-demand offer.

If the whole truth were known, I expect we'd find alot of eavesdropping on politicians and Wall Street.

[electron_blue]

42. I agree. I think most of the U.S. is suffering a lack of imagination here

First we need to imagine this scenario:

What would criminals do if they could do ANYTHING THEY WANTED and know they'd get away with it. Of course they're listening. They're going to continue to do so until forced to stop. They're stealing right and left. They're killing. They're manipulating elections. They're probably doing even worse - like manipulating the food, water systems of the U.S. so that when the time comes they can use it to their advantage. They're probably already doing so with drugs (Tamiflu/Rumsfeld). What else? I keep finding that I am also not using enough imagination when it comes to what they are actually doing. I keep finding myself thinking: they coudln't get away with *that*. Silly me.

[Melsky]

43. I don't think any of this has to do with terrorism

I think you are right, they are going after their political enemies with weapons Nixon never even dreamed about

[ooglymoogly]

45. and this my friends is the way democracy is being destroyed nt

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

47. Good observation. It is a gold mine...

...when you start thinking about all the different kinds of information they can glean from analyzing these patterns it's downright scary.

[habitual]

48. And DON'T buy it when they say

ok, we won't do it anymore. Do you think they are going to give this up??? NO WAY... the only way to stop them is to throw them all in jail......

[WHAT]

49. This is what really bothers me ...

It's a tool to extrapolate information and they may say they are using it to discern terrorist activity but I feel it's more likely a very refined system to bet the ponies, call the races, win the bet. Whatever. People who go to the track could only dream of such a system... and you can bet it would be illegal in that circumstance

bet my money on the bob-tailed nag, somebody bet on the bay...

[PATRICK]

50. A revealing light

on what may have been puzzling even to their most studied opponents. Boldness? Desperation? Madness?

As soon as they had these assets in place, added to other confidence builders such as a compliant media, they could with confidence steal votes, trample on voters, head off any plans(much less non-existent secret plans) by the Dems. No wonder they dared cross the line when just a slight revolution and some courage might have derailed them. They knew there would be no consequences, little consciousness, little effectiveness in what anyone might do.

Because they knew what everyone was doing, saying and thinking. So what looks to us like a great risk vanishes. No wonder during the early campaign Shrub sweated and worried. Finally, they KNEW they were going to get away with it in advance.