Reality Check on Telecom-Data Providers

[Pavulon]

FYI:

For at least 75 years the NSA (and its predecessor agencies) have been intercepting information on the US telecom grid. That is their sole reason for existence. To intercept information. They are spies. They spy on enemies both foreign and domestic.

Their budget is massive, tens of billions a year.. The NSA is capable of intercepting every electronic signal sent from any electronic device.

All telecom providers cooperate, manufacturers comply with their requests. The NSA hires engineers from all the companies who make routing and switching gear and write ios(es).

All point to point traffic, over broadcast frequencies or leased lines can be monitored and stored.

There is no way to "hide" from the NSA using electronic means.

The scope of the current NSA operations should be viewed in contrast to their past operations.

At one point every western union telegram was sent to the NSA. I am not surprised or concerned over this "new" story, timed with the nomination of hayden, because it is 3 generations old.

[electropop]

1. I don't think the technical capacity was close to what they have today.

They had to be selective, for technical reasons. Only in recent years have they had enough computing capacity, comms bandwidth, voice recognition, etc. Bush and Hayden told them to spy on everybody, or at least on all Dems, for the first time, I believe. Nixon would have loved to, but it wasn't physically possible.

[Pavulon]

3. The NSA

kept CRAY in business. They have more computing power than most countries. They are beyond massive. They make their own chips.

I assure you the NSA has , and has had, this capability for years. They hire the best people and pay well.

The NSA has funded telecoms to get bandwidth. Their budget is more than the CIA and FBI combined, if memory serves.

It takes a few hundred terabytes to spool all the conversation in the us for a year. There has been enterprise disk and tape systems that are capable of this in existence for years. A single LTO3 tape can write data at 80megs a second and stores 800mb. Most large libraries can store thousands and use dozens of drives.

I would love to take a tour of their computer room(s) just to see what they run. I am sure they get stuff the rest of the world never sees.

[valerief]

2. So if we connect to the web by DSL, are they monitoring all are

connections, too?

[Pavulon]

4. You are still looking at to small of a scope

If you connect to the web with a cell phone it can be monitored. Any device that has a fcc sticker can be identified and traced. Connection oriented data like email or voip traffic (skype etc) is easily traced and tapped. It can be done easier than with a pots line. All digital.

In reality the NSA has no interest in you or me. They look at connecting people in webs. call comes in to x. x calls y who calls w etc. That is what they are doing. Or at least that is what this is disclosing.

I would be surprised if the scope of this is that small.

[valerief]

6. Oh, I know they have no interest in me. Those in power are

spying on their competition to remain in power. Gee, there really oughta be a law against breaking the law.

[elifino]

5. A look at court rulings

A link I found on a search for (US SUPREME COURT RULINGS PHONE NUMBERS)

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/012631.php

The following copied from the above link.

The Truong court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. It was incumbent upon the court, therefore, to determine the boundaries of that constitutional authority in the case before it. We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power. The question before us is the reverse, does FISA amplify the President’s power by providing a mechanism that at least approaches a classic warrant and which therefore supports the government’s contention that FISA searches are constitutionally reasonable.

That is the current state of the law. The federal appellate courts have unanimously held that the President has the inherent constitutional authority to order warrantless searches for purposes of gathering foreign intelligence information, which includes information about terrorist threats. Furthermore, since this power is derived from Article II of the Constitution, the FISA Review Court has specifically recognized that it cannot be taken away or limited by Congressional action.

[tech3149]

7. You are correct Sir

When I was graduating, the NSA was one of the most prominent recruiters at my school (background 30+ yrs electronics engineering) It didn't take much time even then to research the organization and decide I wanted nothing to do with them. I think the biggest problem today is that civilian insight is not constrained by the same ethical framework.

edit: spelling

[sendero]

8. Just because they have the capacity..

.. that does not give them the legal authority to listen to or collect data on everyone.

Fact is, if what you say is true, why wasn't 911 stopped? Oh I see, they didn't listen to those guys.

As far as I'm concerned, the NSA is just like Bush - an outfit that FAILED THE COUNTRY on 911 and is now trying to take it out on everyone else.

[Pavulon]

9. They failed

why and how has probably been determined. This will come out in a fia request around 2056.