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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:48 PM
Original message
The first U.S. coin to say "In God We Trust"
We're always hearing that the founding fathers couldn't have really meant to keep God out of government, or we wouldn't have "In God We Trust" on our money. My husband gets the catalog from the Worldwide Treasure Bureau (for coin collectors) and I was interested in this little tidbit of info:

The Very First U.S. Coin To Say "In God We Trust"
The two-cent piece was the first American coin to bear the motto "In God We Trust." Until 1864 (emphasis mine), U.S. coinage and currency carried no reference to a supreme being, but in response to the strong religious fervor that developed as the Civil War dragged on, Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase authorized the words, "In God We Trust," to be placed on the obverse of the two-cent piece. The American public loved the new motto, and its use was eventually required by law on all U.S. coins and currency...

So much for "It's always been that way!" Incidentally, Salmon Chase was the one member of Lincoln's cabinet, made up of his "Team of Rivals," that didn't end up as one of Lincoln's staunch friends and supporters.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting, I own an 1864 two-cent piece
Large motto.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ya mean "conservatives" twisted the facts
to advance their evil, constitution hating agenda? Hard to imagine, huh? So the mention of God on our coins was the result of fundamentalist actions in the 19th century. They are like cockroaches.
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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yup, it seems like there's nothing like a war
to bring out the religious fervor in folks.
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, I remember hearing that before.
Nice to have some confirmation though because before that I had heard it had always been there.

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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Sort of like marriage has "always been 1 man/1 woman" - those Bible
stories not withstanding
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. A side effect of a war...interesting...
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. U.S. Currency wasn't required to have the motto
until 1957...
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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Now, that's interesting, too!
Methinks some basic history lessons for our basic fundie foamers would be helpful.
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Again, a product of war
In this case, the Cold War.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Benjamin Franklin, as first printer of US paper money, had a good slogan
The first US paper money, printed by Benjamin Franklin, had a better, arguably more patriotic slogan on it. The motto was later used on the first US coins, too (which I was able to find a picture of):

"Mind Your Business"

Maybe we need to change it to "Mind your own business"
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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. More and more info. Fascinating! n/t
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I think now "we mind your business" would be more apt. nt
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-08-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. And Henry Wallace put the Masonic symbols on the dollar....
Edited on Mon May-08-06 08:28 PM by EVDebs
Brother Henry Agard Wallace 32nd degree, Prophet of Agrarianism

""In 1934, while serving as Secretary of Agriculture, Wallace, for the first time, saw a picture of the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States and took it to the President. He reported: "Roosevelt, as he looked at the colored reproduction of the Seal, was first struck with the representation of the all-seeing eyea Masonic representation of the Great Architect of the Universe. Next, he was impressed with the idea that the foundation for the new order of the ages had been laid in 1776 but that it would be completed only under the eye of the Great Architect. Roosevelt, like myself, was a 32nd Degree Mason. He suggested that the Seal be put on the dollar bill."""

Interesting to note that that piece of (o.k., I'll be decent and say) 'Work', Allen Dulles, plotted to remove Wallace from consideration as a possible future Presidential nominee by having him knocked off the ticket in 1944 as FDR's VP with a 'treason' scenario involving loose talk to Wallace's bro in law, who worked in the Swiss embassy. All the while Dulles was pointing the finger at Wallace Dulles et al were trading with the Nazis and even planning Op Paperclip.

""Roosevelt had one thing in mind: "The sudden release of the Safehaven intercepts would force a public outcry to bring treason charges against those British and American businessmen who aided the enemy in time of war." Among the targets were Allen Dulles, Henry Ford, and other U.S. industrialists. (5)

The plan failed, however, due to Dulles being "tipped off . . . that he was under surveillance" in time to cover his tracks. One possible source of the leak was Vice President Henry Wallace, "who constantly shared information with his brother-in-law, the Swiss minister in Washington during the war." "Wallace," the authors reveal, "gave many details of his secret meetings with Roosevelt to the Swiss diplomat." The problem was that, at the time, the Nazis "had recruited the head of the Swiss secret service."

It is, perhaps, no coincidence that Roosevelt dropped Wallace during the 1944 election, choosing instead Senator Harry S. Truman as his new running mate."" from a website mentioning Operation Safehaven wiretaps:

It seems Dulles, getting wind that he was under investigation, let Wallace become the 'fall guy' for those OSS'ers involved in trading with the enemy, or set up Wallace as the fall guy. Interestingly enough, Wallace's own daughter Jean Wallace (Douglas) worked for OSS,

Prescott Bush may have been involved in the trading...

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power--
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president,12271,1312540,00....

But the Knights of Malta, who counted Dulles as a member, had a decidedly anti-Masonic agenda if anyone cares to look into the history of the Knights Hospitaler vs. the Knights Templar throughout history

Their Will Be Done

shows the early CIA was basically a Knights of Malta club.

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mrbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. "In God We Trust" wasn't on the Indian cent.
It first appeared on the Lincoln cent in 1909.

Wasn't on the Buffalo nickel(1913-1938), first appeared on the Jefferson five-cent piece in 1938.

The first ten-cent piece with "in God We Trust" was the Mercury dime (1916-45).

First quarter was the Standing Liberty (1916-1930.

First half dollar was the Walking Liberty (1916-1947).

It appeared on the silver dollar in 1878.

1916 looks like a strange year.

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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Actually, the first 5c piece to carry the motto was the Shield nickel
(1866-83), but for some reason it was dropped on the succeeding Liberty/V and Buffalo nickels, then restored on the Jefferson nickel in 1938.

All silver coins with a denomination of 25c or more, and gold coins with a denomination of $5.00 or more, were given the motto in 1866.

The Mercury/Winged Liberty dime was the first 10c piece to get the motto.

It is interesting to note that the first US Mint-produced coins all depicted a non-Christian deity, the Goddess of Liberty. And the word "LIBERTY" is proudly shown in huge letters on all these first coins, while obvious religious references are nowhere to be seen.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. And speaking of LIBERTY...
it's interesting to note that the first US coins all featured the word LIBERTY very prominently in large letters on the obverse (heads side), with the country name, denomination (if one were shown), and motto E PLURIBUS UNUM (if it were shown) on the reverse (tails side). In the early 1800s, however, the word "LIBERTY" started to dwindle in size, and was ofter relegated to a recessed area of the headband, scroll, etc., of whatever representation of the Goddess of Liberty was on the coin. In this location it became harder to see, and in many cases (especially on the silver coins and the Indian Head cent) it tended to wear away after a bit of time in circulation (which to me represents what later US administrations actually thought of "Liberty"). The 3 cent silver piece of 1851-73 was the first US coin that didn't even bother with the pretense of proclaiming "Liberty", and the religious motto was used instead of "Liberty" on the 2 cent piece, and later the Shield nickel.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Isn't that around the time the Federal Reserve was conjured up?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. and "under God" wasn't added to the pledge until 1954...
I found this while googling to make sure I had the date right...

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's (he was the author of the pledge) granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

educating article. :)
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ohmygawd!! There are numismatists among us! K&R
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. Ok, my talibornagain file...
This is stuff I've gathered from all over.

The continental dollar of the Revolutionary War, was designed by Benjamin Franklin in 1776:The mottos on this coin are "Mind Your Business" and "We Are One."

The Tripoli Treaty of 1797 - States unequivocally the US is not a
Christian Nation:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as
the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility
against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no
pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and
President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification;
the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this
was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it
was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no
record of debate or dissent. The text of the treaty was printed in
full in the Philadelphia Gazette and in two New York papers, but there
were no screams of outrage, as one might expect today."


This is confirmed by at least 2 of the Founders. Now remember this one later:

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress
consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of
religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in
the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an
establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains
establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to
be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them,
and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not
involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a
provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of
the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by
Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation? -- Madison In "Essay on Monopolies,"

Moving right along now... to Jefferson:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. - Thomas Jefferson 1/1/1802

In 1837 Congress passed an Act that specified which mottos and phrases
were allowed to be printed on currency; this included the national
motto, "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many One). The motto was not
required however.

And then the shit storm starts:

* In 1860, during the Civil War, Protestant denominations organize the 'National Reform Association', which aimed to amend the Constitution to "declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ."

* In 1861, Rev. M. R. Watkinson writes Salmon P. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury, a letter suggesting "the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins". He suggests "God, Liberty, Law" as a motto on a "beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object".

* In 1864, Congress approves "In God We Trust" for use on one-cent and two-cent coins.

* In 1865, Congress acts to place the motto on all coins.

In 1865, with the conclusion of the Civil War, a new Act was passed by Congress to allow the addition of the phrase "In God We Trust" to currency. "In God We Trust" was still not the national motto at this point and was not used on all money. It was simply allowed to be used on coins, and was used mostly on small denomination coins along with the national motto, "E Pluribus Unum."

Round one: Talibornagain.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 it read:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I like that, simple and to the point.

When the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 "In God We Trust" remained absent from paper currency.

In the 1950s Congress changed the national motto from "E Pluribus
Unum" to "In God We Trust" (which is how In God We Trust
became required to be printed of federal money), "So help me God" was
added to federal oaths (despite the fact that the Christian Bible
clearly states not to swear by God or any other person, place, or
thing when taking an oath. Matthew 5:33-37, James 5:12), and "under
God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance.

This was also about the time the Presidential Prayer Breakfast started.

* In 1957, the motto is first used on paper money.

* On July 30, 1956, a bill is passed by congress and signed by the president declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States.

Round two: Talibornagain.

John F. Kennedy September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association:

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

Clearly, some people still 'get it.'

* In 1970, The constitutionality of the motto is challenged (Aronow v. United States). The Circuit court determined it "has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion".

* In 1979, Madalyn Murray O'Hair of American Atheists challenges the motto (O'Hair v. Blumenthal). The circuit court ruled "the slogan was secular".

* In 1994, The Freedom From Religion Foundation challenged the motto citing it's survey that showed a majority of Americans consider the motto religious. lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial

On September 4, 2002 Michael Newdow was a guest on the popular FOX program Hannity & Colmes. On this program Mr. Newdow stated that he felt that Congressional Chaplains violated the Separation of Church and State. Sean Hannity responded by saying:

"Who hired the first chaplain for congress? ...James Madison in 1789. Did you know that?"

You want to refer to some liberal activist judge..., that's fine, but I'm going to go directly to the source. The author of the Bill of Rights hired the first chaplain in 1789, and I gotta' tell ya' somethin', I think the author of the Bill of Rights knows more about the original intent--no offense to you and your liberal atheist activism--knows more about it than you do."

Which would bring us back to the second paragraph, where Madison
Himself admits the Chaplin is a violation of Church-State separation. BWAAHAAAHAHAAAA Go bark at the moon you friggin Codger!

But, sadly it's come to this:

The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004, introduced into both houses
of Congress on February 11, 2004, "includes the acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of
executing his office."

And with this quote from CNN on March 24, 2004:

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said there "are so many references to God" in public affairs, noting "In God We Trust" was on U-S currency and coins. She added the Supreme Court opens all its public sessions with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable Court.

We can expect no help from the Courts with a problem so clearly subversive of the Constitution.

Sad, isn't it? I mean how well versed our public speakers are on the issue? I mean it's like calling a Wiccan a Satanist.
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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Wow! There's a lot of juicy info in this thread
Does anyone else think this should go in the research forum? Perhaps under the title "God and Country."
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Good summary. One observation, though
While the motto "In God We Trust" first appeared on a low-denomination coin (the 2 cent piece) in 1864, two years later it was appearing on mostly high-denomination (that is, large-size) coins. It never appeard on either of the 3c pieces, or the half-dime (silver 5c) or dime, or the Indian Head penny, which were the most widely used small denomination coins of the time (the 2c piece was a novelty coin that quickly became unpopular and died an unceremonious death in 1873). The religious motto did appear on the Shield nickel which was introduced in 1866, but was replaced with E Pluribus Unum when the new Liberty/V nickel was introduced in 1883.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Fabulous post! So much info! thanks! n/t
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