SS FIX??? If 50% of the people in this country end up finding out that

[HysteryDiagnosis]

they will never be able to retire, will have to work pretty much to the bitter end, will this fix the SS system? Is this by design?? Is someone moving the men around on the chessboard without informing the pawns what the real endgame is?? Sometimes I wonder about things like this and it makes me quite ill to know that you are pretty much on your own anymore in this nation. There used to be loyalty to the employee, a virtually guaranteed pension/retirement SS and all, but now so much of that is gone that it hardly seems worth it anymore.... trying to get ahead and looking forward to a peasant retirement that is, spelling error intentional.

[bahrbearian]

1. Link ?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. No link, I'm just musing..... I have spoken with many people who

will never be able to retire and it downright pisses me off that these people will have worked their entire lives just to get by and nothing more.

[bahrbearian]

6. Thats what scares me, I don't see how I and my wife will ever retire.

But you posted that as I was cleaning my AK-47.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Hey!! I didn't mean anything by that!! :)

[bahrbearian]

8. I joke .I joke

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. Links

http://www.insurancenetworking.com/protected/article.cfm?articleId=2402&pb=ros

In 2006, baby boomers will begin to turn 60. By 2008, 40% of labor force will be 45 or older, with older workers up to five times more likely to submit claims for short or long-term disability, and absent longer than the younger employee. Older workers will also work longer due to lack of savings for retirement, and increased age limits to qualify for Social Security benefits. A recent American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) study showed that nearly 70% of workers who have not yet retired report that they plan to work into their retirement years or never retire.

"Tomorrow's workforce is saving less for retirement, working into its advanced years, putting in longer hours at work, and picking up more of the tab for health care costs and other benefits," Marsters said. "As an industry, we need to ask ourselves if we have enough in the way of disease management, medical specialists and vocational rehabilitation experts to meet this population's needs." With the possibility that the workforce's "golden years" may be tarnished by chronic disability, according to Marsters, disability coverage that is better integrated with health care may be a leading employee benefit for the graying labor force.

Always the wild card, the economy often drives employers' need for greater workplace productivity at the same time that companies' human resource staffs are shrinking, according to Marsters. "It's anybody's guess how the economy will play out, but make no mistake, it will be a major factor," Marsters explained. Historically, Social Security trends have correlated higher unemployment with higher incidences of disability claims, and higher consumer confidence with lower incidences of disability claims. At the same time, some economists believe that many productivity gains of the 1990s can be attributed to longer work hours, and there is research pointing to the downside of overwork: A study by the Economic Policy Institute found that overtime costs industry as much as $300 billion in stress and fatigue-related problems.

What I am seeing is an elder population of work force who is unable to retire, although they may be reaching retirement eligibility. ...
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4857792 - Similar pages

[bahrbearian]

16. I' don't see how we can retire ,, that is why I'm so frustrated.

[papau]

28. Living longer means working longer - SS is NOT in funding trouble - Bush

sells fear - and as usual this is a lie.

Check out the 19 ways - all minor adjustments - to fix any problem listed in the actuaries report last year from the SSA (and note that there may well be no problem as the assumptions used in the "intermediate" projection are less likely to occur than are the assumptions in the optimistic projection - and in the realistic but optimistic projection there is never a problem even with no change in the system.

[cdsilv]

3. I have a handicapped daughter who may never be able to live on her own....

...therefore I expect that I'll end up working the rest of my life supporting her.

Damn shame too, I've put money into SS since I was 13 years old. Don't really have any retirement - was out of
work for 18 mos - that ate up the retirement $$.

C'est la vie...

[Quakerfriend]

5. I hear ya. Thank god, they've not been able to push this one

thru. But, I'm sure they will keep trying.

I'm just hoping that Fitzy will take care of these band of criminals before much longer.

I will never forget speaking to an older friend of my Moms. He was an 82-year-old retired CEO of Arco Chem. Would give my mother financial advise and help her with her paperwork. A very decent gentleman.

He was helping her make a living will and he said "You would not believe how many friends of mine end up in the hospital, and there they stay until the money is all gone, then somehow they die." He was a very sharp fellow, and not kidding in the least.

[Warpy]

9. The oldest boomers had their pension contributions flat out robbed

for the first 25 years of their working lives if they changed jobs, at all, because employers just kept those contributions.

They since changed the law but not the behavior, and corporate officers have regarded pension plans as their private piggy banks and have either used them to leverage massive debt or simply robbed them, outright, "reorganizing" the corporation to cover the theft.

A lot of older boomers are going to discover they have nothing to retire on but social security plus a lump sump payment that covers less than half of their working history.

A lot of older boomers will literally work until they drop.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. If they work until they drop, will the net effect be that the SS burden

is eased or will it change nothing in that regard?? I mean, the question is can one draw SS and remain working?? This is going to show my ignorance but I could give a hoot. Some things I'm well versed on, while on others I'm oblivious to the facts.

[Yupster]

34. Yes you can work and draw social security

at the same time.

It used to be that you were heavily penalized for continuing to work, but that was relaxed quite a bit about five years ago as part of the tax cuts.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

42. Oh goody.... I will be able to afford cragars for my wheelchair

if it comes to that!!

[madrchsod]

12. yup that`s me!

hopefully i`ll be able to start my business up again..

[AnnaLee]

18. Older boomers are being targeted for something.

Many have already lost their decent wage jobs to downsizing and merger. Now they are passing a bill to discourage hiring them at all. The new bill to make it easier for small business to offer health coverage also has a provision allowing insurance companies to ignore state laws prohibiting discrimination in pools. No SS, no job, no nothing. Someone invited the robber barons in.

[Warpy]

38. Yes, we have been blamed and demonized and now we

have indeed been targeted. What the people behind us on the age scale don't realize is that they will have their turn as targets.

Once you're over 50, you're largely unemployable at jobs that provide a living wage and decent health insurance. You're seen as a net cashflow liability. They'd much rather hire someone 30 years younger and assume they're healthy.

[newyawker99]

48. Hi AnnaLee!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[JDPriestly]

21. So true! So true!

[SharonAnn]

27. Robbed even if they kept their jobs. "Restructuring" the pension

fund because of "excess cash" in the 1980's. We all get the same pension we were promised (supposedly) but no extras, no COLA, no increase ever.

So, if there is a pension fund shortfall, of course we will get reduced benefits.

This means that pension fund investments, if they pay off well, get siphoned off by the corporation to pad their bottom line and the executives get a bigger bonus because of the increase in profits. However, if the pension fund investments do badly, then the employees suffer.

I went to business school and got an MBA to understand how all this works.

Pretty sweet deal for the executives and the financiers.

[papau]

30. ?? = there is not now and never was a employer may keep payroll

tax collected provision in the law.

I suspect you are referring to the fact that the rich have borrowed the payroll tax monies to finance their tax cuts, and now do not want to allow the SS Trust fund to demand they pay those borrowed funds back via the SS trust fund cashing in some of those government bonds and the cash to pay off those bonds coming from higher tax rates on the rich.

We promised to dig up the cash needed to pay bonds owned by China and Japan via more taxes (or God forbid more borrowing from the private or public sector at interest rates pushed higher by such borrowing) - but we - the rich - choke on the idea of paying back the SS Trust fund with real cash to be sent out as benefit checks.

[Warpy]

37. No, I'm referring to company pension plans

because those have been robbed for years. They're trying to do lump sum buyouts now because that's the only way to hide the theft if the corporations haven't gone into bankruptcy, been bought and resold with the insolvent pension plan being attached to the least solvent subsidiary, or any of a dozen scams.

Employees typically contribute money out of their pacheck for these plans and have it matched by the company. 'Taint so.

Private pensions were to supplement social security benefits and vice versa. Most older boomers will find there are no pensions there. If they're lucky, they'll get a fraction of its value in a lump sum payout.

[papau]

45. company pension plans are indeed not fully funded - but PBGC insurance

will pay a percentage of what was promised - and that only after the employee contributions are returned - by the PBGC from whatever funds are in the plan - as a first priority.

Union plans are the ones most likely to have ee contribs and are indeed the worst funded as the management begrudged ever dime that was put away for the workers.

[dysfunctional press]

32. I had my Social Security contributions robbed.

A construction company that i worked at for 2+ years 25 years ago never paid into Social Security the money they took out of my check(and everyone else who worked for them, presumably).

The only way that i found out was by virtue of becoming totally and permanently disabled 10 years ago, and getting the SS to designate me so. at my benefit consultation, or whatever it's called- they went over what had been paid into the system over my 20-year work history, and questioned me about the two-year gap in my work history...i told them that there were no gaps and looked at the dates, and i knew who iwas working for at the time....yadda yadda yadda...apparently the company never passed the FICA money they deducted from my check on to FICA...or anyone else, either. and the corporation is long gone and bankrupt(i'm guessing the former owners are doing just fine, thank-you).

This was a company that represented over 10% of my total work years, due to my shortened working life. and since i was working MASSIVE overtime over those two years, it's actually more like 12-13%(or more) of the total.
money that i wasfucked out of- my money - that was stolen from me...and the SS tells me that i have no recourse as far as recovering the funds and/or seeking justice is concerned.
i just get to collect 13% less than i should be.

[papau]

46. If the company still exists you do have recourse as your contribs have

first dibs on any assets in the company.

If the company is long gone you are unfortunately screwed.

[dysfunctional press]

52. the company is LONG since gone...

they went bankrupt within a couple years of when i last worked for them, over 20 years ago.
and the vast majority of their former employees probably aren't aware of the shenanigans, and will all get he same kind of unpleasant and maddening "surprise!" when their turn at retirement comes along.

but i'm sure that the former owners of the company are doing quite nicely somewhere, and don't have to worry about funding their retirements.

[madrchsod]

10. yesterday a guy on npr a guy

brought up this interesting tid-bit. if we don`t legalize "illegals" who is going to contribute to social security in the future? the shortage of workers after people like me retires to part time jobs has to be made up. 11-12 million people paying taxes and changing the amount paid in each week now,will pay off in the future.

[Yupster]

35. But that's a short-term fix

with a long term cost.

The social security payout formula is very progressive. The bendpoints result in lower paid workers getting much more percentage wise than higher paid workers.

Therefore adding many more lower paid workers to the system will help in the short-term but will be a nightmare when it's time to pay them out.

[area51]

51. "who is going to contribute to social security?"

Well, for starters, unemployed people like myself, if someone will hire us. Don't bring illegals into this equation -- there is no worker shortage.

There are millions of American citizens ready, willing & able to work. I guess you don't know or don't care how insulting you sound to those of us who are unemployed.

[electron_blue]

13. After Katrina, how could you not realize that you're on your own now.

Maybe the people will take back control over the govt before then (your retirement age) but it's a good idea to plan for the alternative.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. I am expecting a global dimensional shift in 2011, anything less

and I will be severely disappointed, but then, that's another story entirely. :)

[ikojo]

14. One way to 'fix; social security is to tax all

wages, and not just those up to the first $85k.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Bingo. Why is that so difficult to implement?

[Yupster]

36. Why difficult to implement?

Because it is asking one political party to stick it to thei base voters without any compensation. Why would they do that?

I have a better proposal though.

How bout if we

A) remove the income ceiling which is currentlyt around 90 k and going up with inflation each year and at the same time

B) force workers who are not in social security to return to it. The largest group here is most public school teachers in 14 states, including the two largest of California and Texas

I think this proposal could succeed because it would ask each party to stand up to its base, and also both of these proposals should have happened long ago anyway.

Why shouldn't every dollar be taxed?

Why should a universal program not be universal? What makes teachers special that they should be able to opt out when no one else can?

[papau]

29. true - but the assumptions being used result in"only 90%" of the gap being

closed.

But there may well be - and indeed it is likely - that there is no gap in funding to begin with.

a simple move from the current in law Reagan passed retirement age of 67 to 70 by the year 2050 - with early reduced benefit retirement continuing to be available beginning at age 62 - also solves much of the problem - if there is a problem.

[NaturalHigh]

39. You got it.

If I make $86,000, I pay the same amount of SS tax as Bill Gates or Dick Cheney. How is that fair?

[annabanana]

43. why just wages?

just askin'

[papau]

47. Also true - should be "income" has a "payroll" tax so that the 90%

of the income of the rich that is investment income gets hit with the same tax as the tax we pay. But with a wage cap, there is little point in including investment income in the tax base.

So the solution is to get rid of the wage cap - and to then tax "income" - and that indeed does greatly reduce the "payroll" tax rate even after fully funding the current "funding gap".

[Selatius]

17. That "loyalty to the employee" never existed and never will

This is capitalism land, not socialism land.

The reason why you have a pension and SS is because somebody in the past fought the corporation and won concessions from them, and they held vigil to make sure that the corporation doesn't take it away again. They're trying to take it away again, and it seems they're winning. Rates of unionization are down, and corporations are buying out legislators.

If you think it's real bad now, go back and see what 1906 was like instead of 2006. No SS, no Medicare/Medicaid, no education system, no job training programs, no minimum wage, no unemployment insurance, no labor standards, nothing. In today's values, the robber barons at the top made tens of billions of dollars.

If SS is successfully defunded either through neglect or through a concerted campaign, you will know what it's like to work a job with no prospect for retirement.

[Golden Raisin]

19. "Loyalty to the employee" ???

"There used to be loyalty to the employee"??? As dead as the stegasaurus. Likewise spending 30 or 40 years at the same company and walking out with a pension. Today the regular workers struggle to remain in the middle class but the CEO's all make gazillions and have stock options out the wazoo --- just the way the Republicans like it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

20. Well hells bells, they are the ones who make the "big" decisions

that result in all the money flowing in... or at least that is what they believe, many times they are the ones who make the decisions that bring the walls crashing down around the working man WHO KNOWS HOW TO DO HIS JOB WELL.

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. Republicans want to make you work until you die. Never forget that.

[3ringcircus]

23. google totalization,,,,,,,,,,

Totalization: Sellout of American Workers -- Pwww.eagleforum.org/column/2004/nov04/04-11-17.htmlhyllis Schlafly ..


i cant figure how to post a link! SS is gone !!

[emcguffie]

24. But there's another side to that.

They can't let people keep working forever. There aren't enough jobs, and you have to make room for the young blood. So are you thinking that middle managers will step aside and go to work as greeters at Walmart?

It's a conundrum, but they keep saying two contradictory things at once -- retire later, no SS, and retire earlier, let the young people get promoted. Which is it to be?

[TheFarseer]

26. It's so they can do some crazy sh*t like privatization

or do away with it all together. In Nebraska, Pet Ricketts is running for the Senate for the sole reason that he was/is(?) the CEO of Ameritrade and he wants to see privatization in the worst way. He's spending millions of dollars of his own personal fortune trying to tell us he's a regular guy and that we need a "conservative change" and "Nebraska values" in Washington. Values like selfish millionaires running off with our retirement money. It's absolutely disgusting. That's how most of these people think. There's lots of money in this for them. They look at EVERY issue and their only thought is how they can make money off it and how they can sell their self-serving plan to the American people.

[Yollam]

31. Only upper & middle class people can realistically even think of retiring

in the US. I have never taken it for granted that I would ever retire, and don't consider that to be a tragedy. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to retire, it just seems that people tend to lose something when they stop working and then die soon after. I personally intend to work "to the bitter end" as you call it, even if I eventually do make some good money, because I like to work, and I like to feel useful. Playing golf and watching TV all day would depress the fuck out of me, especially if I was surrounded by nothing but a bunch of other old people in lime green polo shirts. Ugh. My grandmother lives in one of those upscale "retirement communities". Like a graveyard for the living, IMO. Sterile, all-white, boring, homogenized horror.

Maybe it's just because I entered the workforce at the end of the Reagan years, but I just never thought I'd get any kind of decent pension or that SS would be enough to live on. I can't imagine how disappointing it must be to those who came of age in the years when pensions & SS were actually something a person could live on.

[Yupster]

33. Social Security was never meant to be your retirement

It was just supposed to be a supplement to keep you from starving.

Right from the beginning it has been everything that a large percentage of people have ended up with though. It's not any different today. Even with Roth IRA's, 401 (k)'s, Simples, SEP's, 457's and $ 25 per month mutual fund limits, many, many people still retire without having saved a dime.

It's a shame but I suspect it will always be that way.

[B Calm]

40. You are right. Problem now is corporations have done away

with pensions, busted labor unions, and now pay low wages! Republican have always wanted to bankrupt this country just so the social programs will wither and die. Cheap labor cons are salivating right now over the prospect of millions of hungry desperate baby boomers to exploit as a cheap labor force.

[Yupster]

50. Yes - pensions are gone

They just don't make sense for companies. Defined Contribution Plans make much more sense for the corporation.

Twenty years from now the only people who will work in a job with a Dfined Benefit Plan will be government employees, and those will be under great stress too.

[Hamlette]

41. SS is not in jeopardy

if you want to freak out about something, find something that needs fixing. The SS stuff is propaganda. Read The Plot Against Social Security. The author has done the numbers. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006083465X/qid=1147069152/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-6513170-8809447?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Sorry, but I HATE it when OUR SIDE is so ill informed we go off screaming about stuff that is untrue.

You want to worry? Worry about the enviornment or medicare or the sorry state of education in our country or the religious nut cases telling us when we can die or deny birth control.

[B Calm]

44. This country thanks to republicans is in debt (BIG TIME )!!!

[Hamlette]

49. well then, the whole country goes down...not just the 50% not getting SS

as claimed by the original poster.

I think we may see some "hard" times as a result of Bush's irresponsible fiscal policies, but personally, I don't see the country going down.