To the hardcore PEAK OIL folks:

[skids]

If you haven't noticed the stream of oil company shills hitting the media by now, please do start paying attention because you are in danger of being coopted. Big Oil wants to use you to remain blameless, in the court of public opinion, for gas prices.

We all know the truth: everyone's to blame -- producers, refiners, consumers -- everyone that has at any time invested effort in preventing or slowing a shift from fossil fuels to sustainable renewables (and those just willfully ignorant, to a lesser extent.)

That includes oil companies. Whether or not one believes they are gouging now, or it's 100% due to supply/demand, that doesn't excuse their past activities.

So make it a point to say so. Repeatedly. Sew it into your material real good so it cannot be excerpted. You'll be in the spotlight for a while yet, as people wake up to the oil crunch. Don't let your legacy be that yes, you warned people well beforehand, but you were played like a fiddle and some of the scoundrels escaped riding on your coat tails.

[barb162]

1. Supply is stable or declining and demand is growing, plain and

simple. People don't want to believe that. Also, China wants gasoline and China will get it. People don't want to modify their lifestyles and think cheap energy will last forever.

[skids]

4. Here's my point...

...until recently, oil companies pretty much wanted to deny peak oil as much as joe "can't-live-without-my-hummer" six pack.

Now suddenly they've got their media trolls out in force on TV talk shows, and probably astroturfing online, saying -- "not our fault: it's peak oil!"

It's up to you folks that knew it from the start to a) use this to your advantage and b) sucker punch them while they are at it. If you just let them go on with it, yes, people will finally realize that there's peak oil, but the oil companies will come out smelling like a rose, completely unaccountable for being obstructionists when it comes to conservation and renewables.

Do you want that?

[laheina]

7. I need to ask an ignorant question,

because I don't watch TV in order to avoid the PR of which you speak, but are the talking heads from big oil actually *saying* that peak oil is happening?

[barb162]

10. though you didn't address the question to me, the answer is no.

However BP ads over the last year or so are not on oil if you ever noticed. I think they are actively looking to get into other businesses long term as they KNOW as does Exxon and the others.

[skids]

11. They tiptoe around the word...

...and they do it through surrogates,

...but yes. Just tonight they trotted some money-grubbing WSJ person out on the TDS, for example.

[barb162]

8. the oil companies right now IMHO are talking what they can get

and they will do it as long as they can. Their lobby and influence of it is immense.

[laheina]

5. Not to mention the other up and coming countries.

India comes to mind.

[barb162]

12. Yes, it' would be almost hilarious if it were funny

This increasing voracious demand in Asia, while the West wants to keep wasting gas on summer road trips. The Saudi oil fields are being pumped as fast as they can from what I am reading. It is not going to be pretty. Plus our Gulf Coast infrastructure still isn't operating at 100%.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. I've noticed all the BP "Clean Coal" Crap commercials lately...

pretending that they are doing us all a favor. :eyes:

[laheina]

6. I *hate* those commercials.

They should call themselves BS instead of BP.

[barb162]

15. They are going to try to survive their main moneymaker ,oil,

disappearing, and knowing them, they will survive.

[barb162]

13. Well they are acting like good business people.

Why should they put a few billion into new refining capacity when they know the supply is declining. It makes no business sense. It's gonna get interesting

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. Well,

that's an understatement. dead on.

[Blue_Tires]

3. good point nt

[brokensymmetry]

9. As a hardcore Peak Oil doomer...

I guess I think that the oil companies - greedily little devils that they
are - are so inconsequential that I really don't much care if they try
to dodge some blame. It strikes me as being akin to escaping blame
for soiling the carpet...on the Titanic...just before it goes beneath
the waves.

If oil peaks before we start coming up with alternatives, and if
the decline is steep - then get ready for the die-off. That may
well mean a global population decline to about 1 billion people from
the present 6.5 billion over the course of several decades. Add in
some resource wars (Iraq, anyone?) and you might get an even more severe
die-off.

We have to reduce our dependence on non-renewable energy - not just
fossil fuels - and we'd best get started now. We might have done it
more comfortably if we'd listened to Jimmy Carter - but we as a nation
didn't. We listened to Reagen instead.

So the oil companies - and oil producing countries - will rip us off.
They'll smirk and party and think themselves to be clever. But irritating
as that is, unjust and unfair and wrong as it may be - better that than
the grim alternatives in store if we don't start cutting back a lot.

And that doesn't even touch the climate change issue...

Do I like high gas prices? No...no one does. We all want cheap and easy
motoring. But if someone or something doesn't change our behavior, the
consequences are so terrible you don't want to think about it.

[barb162]

14. I agree with every word you just posted

It's gonna get ugly and we should have started a few decades ago. Nobody wants to face the facts. And we have Bush talking about the Strategic Oil Reseve today...what a fucking joke.

[oscar111]

16. 300/barrel... when? Serious question n/t

zzzz

[skids]

17. Depends on how fast the dollar tanks. n/t

[Peter Frank]

19. Nice effort at being an apologist...

Google "MichaelRuppert"

[skids]

21. Who am I supposedly apologizing for? n/t

[Peter Frank]

20. I'm not hard core... but I know that we're beimg fuckef... n/t

[oscar111]

22. Oil at $540/barrel... when? Seriously asking.

just refined my earlier question.

I see this as a tipping point for world stability.

When will it get to five forty?

anyone? Looking for a year, ... not a lot of "if this and that happens" kind of answer.. pls "just the facts, m'am" LOL. Just the year.

thanks,
oscar

[amandabeech]

23. I suggest that you address that question to the Saudis.

Perhaps they'll give you a little info on their true situation. You might want to try it with all the major oil producers, while you're at it.

In the meantime, I'd like to know how you arrived at a tipping point figure of $540. Assumptions? Methodology?