Sign the Petition Against the NRA's 'License to Murder'

[billbuckhead]

Sign the Petition Against the NRA's
'License to Murder'

From the top to bottom of the NRA, they have been fighting to pass laws in every state that will allow people to open fire without consequence. And they have already succeeded in steamrolling the legislation through several states.

They call it a right to self-defense law, but America already has such laws in all 50 states -- and the NRA cannot produce a single person whom they claim was jailed for defending themselves from bodily harm. The NRA wants to give people a License to Murder -- anywhere, anytime, anyplace -- and give them civil and criminal immunity, even if they "accidentally" shoot bystanders.

If they don't get the complete "License to Murder" this year, they will be back again to my state next year.

Enough is enough. We have to make our nation more secure and ensure the future of our children, not threaten them with a "get out of jail free card for murder."


<http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/FSA/signUp.jsp?key=1192&t=License%20to%20Murder%20Standard.dwt>

I wonder if this legistlation would be so popular if it also allowed wives of gun owners to whack them in their sleep with their guns without consquence?

[Erika]

1. done

and we have a house full of armed weapons.

[William769]

2. Sorry, I am happy with the new law in Florida.

I sleep better at night.

[Acebass]

3. Done K&R...

[Jack_DeLeon]

4. Self Defense != Murder

Not all killings are murder.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benEzra]

6. Maybe you should READ THE LAW before making silly statements like that

Let's review what constitutes justifiable self-defense in general, under the new law Florida, and elsewhere.

I'll quote from Steve Johnson, Concealed Carry Handgun Training, North Carolina Justice Academy, 1995, pp. 3-4 (the laws in Florida are similar, but this is the best wording I've found):

(1) Justified Self-Defense

A citizen is legally justified in using deadly force against another if and only if:

(a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(c) The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, AND

(d) Force used was not excessive -- greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor."

(Emphasis added.)

Note that ALL FOUR conditions must be met in order for a shooting to be ruled justifiable. Note especially letter (b) above, which is the "reasonable person test"; contrary to Bradyite press releases, "feeling threatened" by someone else is NOT justification for the use of lethal force. The belief must be reasonable, i.e. "the facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault." The new law does not change these criteria, it just eliminated the subjective duty to run away that was present in Florida law, by which an overzealous prosecutor could turn a clearly justifiable act of self-defense into a murder charge simply by claiming that the victim should have tried to outrun the assailant before trying to stop the attacker.

Florida, and many other states, also authorize potentially-lethal force to stop the commission of a "forcible felony," as defined by statute; such would include kidnapping, armed robbery, aggravated assault (i.e., assault likely or intended to maim or cause serious bodily harm and that could result in death), etc.

OK, now to the recent law that eliminated the "duty to run away" requirement that had been in Florida law, and also extended the "Castle Doctrine" (already law in most states) to your vehicle, so if someone actually tries to carjack you, you have the same right to defend yourself as if you were in your home. The author is Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq., probably the leading authority on Florida self-defense law; his book Florida Firearms: Law, Use, and Ownership is used as a standard text not only by CCW instructors, but by many Florida police academies:

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/florida-selfdefense-law-analysis.pdf

The Bradyites are full of crap on this, and a two-minute Google search to find the text of the law(s) in question would show that to anyone who's interested...

[billbuckhead]

7. A Modest Proposal:Arm Everyone.

A Modest Proposal:Arm Everyone.

Let's arm everyone in America. That's the ridiculous policy the gun lobby wants because it maximizes profits of weapons makers. Here's a "modest propasal" that is mention by the Gun Guys. in their latest.

We enjoyed this “modest proposal” in the Lincoln, Nebraska Journal Star Letters page enough to share it with you. Nebraska lawmakers recently passed a concealed carry law there (against the wishes of the people and the police) because the gun lobby claimed concealed weapons make things safer. So, says this letter writer, why don’t we just go all the way with that idea?

The unicameral has left a huge gap in our security with the half-measure authorizing concealed weapons.

People can forget their guns, or forget to load them. Some might not even be able to afford the gun and the $100 or so for the permit. We will only be truly safe when everyone is armed.

State and local governments, along with civic-minded businesses and citizens, must make that happen. Public transportation could carry loaded handguns in handy seat pockets. Fast-food restaurants should have a small shelf of guns next to the carry-out lids; sit-down restaurants could place them in the center of the table with the condiments. Upscale dining establishments could offer complimentary handguns to parties of four or more.

We must be alert, however, to public safety concerns. Guns placed conveniently in malls, banks, schools, sporting venues and churches should be on shelves above the reach of small children, say those younger than 8 or so. Prudence demands it.

Of course we can expect some liberal whining, but I am confident we can rely on the generosity of the National Rifle Association to help defray medical costs beyond what is insured.

A word of caution. There might be some blood spilled while we’re getting rid of all those who appear to be bad guys. I trust you will be stoic if some of that hits close to home. Sooner or later we will bring law and order to Dodge and we will be able to ban weapons except for law enforcement, military and sports venues. Our visionary unicameral is striving to take us into the dawn of the 20th century.

Tom deShazo, Lincoln

Why not just pass out guns to the public? That will make everyone safe, right? If everyone has a gun, no one will shoot, right?

Oh, well, there’ll have to be a little bit of shooting, at least. We do have to kill all the bad guys, so they don’t hurt anyone. But once they’re all dead, the rest of us will get to live in armed peace and the happiness of a warm gun forever, right?

Sounds like the train of thought of a crazy person to us, but that’s the thinking that the NRA’s been riding on for years.
---------------snip--------------
<http://www.gunguys.com/#post-1002>

These shoot first and ask questions later laws are going to fuel neighborhood arms races. Great for the arms dealers but bad for America.

[benEzra]

8. That's BS...just as ridiculous as saying that Planned Parenthood

wants to force every woman in the U.S. to have an abortion, when in fact they stand for the CHOICE. One would think that the gun prohibitionists could come up with better than toddler-level arguments...

You are well aware that in states that have carry licensure, generally between 3 and 10 percent of the population obtain licenses, and most of those who are licensed don't carry 24/7. It just gives the law-abiding person who has gone through the approval process the CHOICE to do so legally if she/he so chooses.

You are well aware of the requirements you have to meet in order to be granted a carry license...including a thorough FBI and state/local background check, training in most states, and knowledge of self-defense law.

You are also aware that the elimination of the duty to retreat if you are attacked by a person trying to kill, maim, or rape you does NOT mean that you can shoot someone who is NOT trying to kill, maim, or rape you...

[billbuckhead]

10. Insults insults insults

It's very easy to get guns from gun stores in America, they don't check very good. It's a fact.

[benEzra]

14. Er...the *FBI* does the checking...

and the FBI's NCIS database may not be perfect, but it's good enough that police agencies use the same foundational databases for other purposes.

If you go to get a government security clearance, such as to get access to a military base, you will be checked against the same databases that are used to screen prospective gun buyers.

So, when's the last time you underwent an NCIS background check and filled out a BATFE form 4473? I did a couple weeks ago...

[billbuckhead]

16. Gun lobby does everything it can to suppress gathering gun death stats

"Scientists also report an environment stifled by fear of gun advocates.

“There are people who are nervous about their personal safety,” said David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, which studies firearms. Though he has never been threatened, he said, gun advocates assault his research ability in the medical journals that publish his studies.

“They make it personal,” he said.

Dr. Katherine Kaufer Christoffel, founder of the HELP Network, a public health voice in the national handgun debate, said researchers are gun shy because of these pressure tactics."
<http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2000/violence/tuestudy/tuestudy.htm>

Gun "enthusiasts" and their corporate neoCON puppetmasters using threats? Imagine that!

[patdem]

12. No, what you say is BS...planned parenthood does not MAKE MONEY

on abortions...the gun lobby is by of and for the gun industry...THEY make money on the purchase of guns...

[benEzra]

13. If you checked, you'd find that the NRA gets most of its funds

from individual membership dues and donations, NOT from gun manufacturers. The NRA actually takes a lot of steps that run counter to the financial interests of gun manufacturers, like supporting the importation of inexpensive but well made antique rifles (SKS's, Mosin Nagants, Mausers) that undercut sales of expensive, newly-manufactured guns. There's a hell of a lot more profit to be made on a $1500 Weatherby rifle package than there is on a $169 SKS or a $79 Mosin-Nagant. And they rejected over and over an offer by the prohibitionists to trade gun-industry lawsuit protection for a ban on protruding handgrips on rifles and shotguns (aka the "assault weapons ban"); the former mattered a lot to the industry, the latter not a whit, but defeating the AWB was far and away the first priority.

The NRA gets most of its money from millions of us gun owners, who shell out $35 each in membership dues plus donations to the Institute for Legislative Action, and it gets its power from the fact that its 4 million plus members, and many of the 76 million gun owners who aren't members, typically care deeply about gun ownership and VOTE THE ISSUE.

The "gun lobby" isn't by and for the gun industry, which has a combined worldwide net worth smaller than that of McDonald's. It is by and for America's ~80 million law-abiding gun owners, who fund it, volunteer, and give it its power at the ballot box. Just like Planned Parenthood, in fact...

[enfield collector]

15. I'm the NRA and I vote.....Democrat.

[billbuckhead]

18. That's why Grover Norquist is on their board of directors?

That's why some of the most corrupt politicians in American history are deeply intertwined with this gun crowd? Uber-corrupt NRA endorsed gun nut Duke Cunningham said liberals should be lined up and shot.
Then what about loans made for the NRA without interest for campaigning?

"When a man is in trouble or in a good fight, you want to have your friends around, preferably armed. So I feel really good."

Tom DeLay, KeynoteSpeaker, Annual Convention of the National Rifle Association, Houston, April 16, 2005.

[Endangered Specie]

21. My god, look what happens when you throw facts into the argument...

:crazy:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Done. Another idiot law for the pathetic wannabee tough guys.

[Walt Disney]

11. Why should anyone do something silly like that?

My life is my highest value. Any legislation that reinforces my right to protect it, is good legislation.

[readmoreoften]

17. I'm okay with self-defense.

There have been plenty of laws in the past that required individuals to value the life of their assailant above their own. These laws are idiotic. I'm not afraid of guns, handled properly.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

19. Uh, no, I think I'll pass, thanks. (nt)

[Endangered Specie]

20. Weren't these the same people that predicted a bloodbath

when Concealed Carry Laws were passed, and no such thing has happened?

I see alot of empty rhetoric, be nice if they actually had a COPY OF THE EXACT TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION... guess thats asking too much eh? :eyes:

"I wonder if this legistlation would be so popular if it also allowed wives of gun owners to whack them in their sleep with their guns without consquence?"

What if the wife owns guns too?

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. DONE! n/t

[stepnw1f]

23. DONE!

Fuckin sicko paranoids.