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Jim Garrison, Playboy Interview, October, 1967 (Fascism)

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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:50 PM
Original message
Jim Garrison, Playboy Interview, October, 1967 (Fascism)
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 10:00 PM by LibertyorDeath
Wow he must of had a crystal ball.

Jim Garrison, Playboy Interview, October, 1967
"What worries me deeply, and I have seen it exemplified in this case, is that we in America are in great danger of slowly evolving into a proto-fascist state. It will be a different kind of fascist state from the one of the Germans evolved; theirs grew out of depression and promised bread and work, while ours, curiously enough, seems to be emerging from prosperity. But in the final analysis, it's based on power and on the inability to put human goals and human conscience above the dictates of the state. Its origins can be traced in the tremendous war machine we've built since 1945, the "military-industrial complex" that Eisenhower vainly warned us about, which now dominates every aspect of our life. The power of the states and Congress has gradually been abandoned to the Executive Department, because of war conditions; and we've seen the creation of an arrogant, swollen bureaucratic complex totally unfettered by the checks and balances of the Constitution.

In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same.

I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

http://bloggn.petercase.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=EDD5A9E8-B5E7-3F32-9B66DC5F74C7AE1F
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. OHHHhhhhh YEAHhhhhhhh, KNR
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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Eerily prophetic
Let's hope we're not going to get that far.

Is it possible to become a fascist state and not even know it?
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Is it possible to become a fascist state and not even know it?"

Yes


"clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line."



"You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same."
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DrBloodmoney Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. prescient n/t
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes could have been written yesterday
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. THANK you! he was vilified to the maximum extent the CIA/media could
muster back then

even Johnny Carson got involved

Mort Sahl's career was destroyed because he believed in what Garrison was doing

turns out he was RIGHT about Clay Shaw, too. he was deeply involved with the CIA, but couldn't prove the extent of said involvement because of all the PERJURY committed before and after the trial.

even that scum of scums, Richard Helms, had to admit he lied about Shaw's CIA connections. I talked to some "scholars" on the JFK Assassination Records Bureau on a radio show when they were commissioned, and they didn't KNOW about Helms' admission, which I READ to them from the book "Oswald and the CIA," by John Newman

http://www.google.com/search?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=oswald%20and%20the%20CIA&sa=N&tab=iw

bunchashitcoverupfordecades
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hey thanks for some of the background Gabi
He was right on the $ with this analysis.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Proud to be the 5th nominator
Thx for posting...
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
57. Thanks for the 5th rec !
I was hoping it would get to the greatest so
more could read it.

:toast:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you so much for posting this. K and Reckoning.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
58. Thanks!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. incredibly prescient .. brilliant post thanks very much..
this post should be at the top of the best of's in DU just cause..

garrison knew too well then, what too few (especially among our party leaders) recognize as true today..

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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. Corporatism....This is where we are today & it's ruining America
From Wikipedia
corporatism
emphasizing the role of business corporations in government decision-making at the expense of the public. The power of business to affect government legislation through lobbying and other avenues of influence in order to promote their interests is usually seen as detrimental to those of the public. In this respect, corporatism may be characterized as an extreme form of regulatory capture, and is also termed corporatocracy.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. I saw "JFK" some years back, and later bought the VHS tape.
But I recently replaced it with the 2-disk "Director's Cut": http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CDL93/qid=1145776134/sr=1-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2314045-6264808?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

It was a lot better, and (in my opinion) has prevailed over it's critics. And in my opinion, most of what we all now deplore has it's roots in that assasination. I strongly "suggest" that you all buy or rent that video, and subject it to the most critical scrutiny. With names, dates, and places supplied, that's now done fairly easily with search engines. Before the current version of the internet, that was almost impossible to do conclusively. (I know, I've been trying for the past 40 years).

I don't think I have a strong predeliction towards "conspiracy theories". But even if I did, so what? The important thing is that I assume NOTHING as written in stone, and listen carefully to other opinions & theories.

pnorman
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. JFK's assassination was when the coup d'etat happened.
The Corporate fascists of the Military Industrial Complex are the ones who have been running our country ever since.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. Actually, when the CIA was founded ....
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 11:45 AM by EVDebs
Read "Their Will Be Done" by Martin A. Lee in motherjones magazine's archives.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1983/07/willbedone.html

The CIA's founders (Dulles, Donovan, McCone, Casey, Angleton, etc., were all Knights of Malta - formerly called Knights Hospitalers in the Crusades if you wish to research even further back).

The aristocratic bent really got going in the Dulles' self-preservation effort in Switzerland during WWII in order to hide their own dealings with the Nazis, and to set up eventually Operation Paperclip, while at the same time to direct attention away from themselves and set-up FDR's VP Henry A. Wallace as as a traitor. Wallace was VERY progressive if you get my drift.

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I also think Harry Truman's role requires investigation.
The "preferred" replacement vp candidate. Sacred cow, I know, but he deserves a good look.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
61. Good point thanks for the info & link.
There's tons of great info

here from Octafish one of the most informed DUers around


Corrupt Craftsmen Hoover and Dulles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3908104

& http://knowyourbfee.blogspot.com/
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. k&r
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. hey, is that peter case, singer songwriter.... he used to rock purdy hard
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R - I've been watching Stone's JFK almost every night for months.
There are so many parallels to what's happening today. The JFK assassination and coverup were the first overt acts of the fascist regime that has been lurking ever since until it came to full bloom in the present administration.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I've watched it several times since reading a post here recommending it.
I am reading "Farewell to Justice" which chronicles Garrison's investigation. I was definitely a sheeple before the 2000 election, but every day my eyes open more.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I started to check out that "Farewell to Justice" at Amazon.com,
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 09:00 AM by pnorman
to look over the book reviews. I was immediately struck with the profile of one reviewer. Here it is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A1S8AJIUIO6M9K/002-2314045-6264808

He sounds fairly well connected and knowledgable. Alternately, he could be full of himself, and on a Walter Mitty trip. I strongly favor the former, but will look his website over very carefully. I just put it in the shopping cart, where it may stay for a few weeks, or even be removed. At $17 + S/h, how does it strike YOU so far?

pnorman
On edit: Here is the author's bio note: http://joanmellen.net/author.html She sounds VERY impressive. I'll probably order it in a few more days.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
40. To anyone who finds "JFK" interesting, i recommend
Stone's "Nixon".

It is a similar work as "JFK"; very well documented and researched. It gives another glimpse into the dark underworld of reality.

I can't resist the urge to include a snippet from an interesting conversation between Nixon and then head of the CIA Richard Helms:


N: ...it involves some old and forgotten papers. Things i signed as vice president. I want the originals in my office and i don't want copies anywhere else.

H: You're referring i believe, to chairing the Special Operations Group, as vice president.

N: yea

H: As you know that was unique. Not an operation so much as an organic phenomena. It grew, it changed shape, it developed appetites. It is not unusual in such cases if things are not committed to paper. That could be very embarrassing.
I for one saw to it that my name was never connected with any of these operations; Ziem, Turajio, Umumba, Guatemala, Iran, Cuba.
<spelling may off a bit there>
It's a shame you didn't take similar precautions, Dick.

N: I'm interested in those documents that put your people together with the gangster elements. All the documents.

H: President Kennedy threatened to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces. You could do the same.

N: I'm not Jack Kennedy. Your agency is secure.

H: Not if i give you all the cards.

...

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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
62. Don't be so hard on yourself
True sheeple are Koolaid drinkers and know amount of info will open their eyes.

Cheers
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
81. Autopsy photos and/or Zapruder film frames altered....check this out
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. The irony is, there's something worse than the CIA and the Pentagon
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 05:46 AM by leveymg
that only the professionals who retain their integrity within those two massively corrupted and misused institutions can protect us from. It isn't communism. It isn't international terrorism.

It's Fascism. It's the multinational Oil Mafia. It's the Rogue spooks, dirty bankers, NSA contractors, Faux NewsCorp, oil sheikhs and crazy Israeli rightists who collective are BushCo. They are Fascism, today. They murdered the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, John Lennon, 3,000 Americans on 9/11, 100,000 Iraqis and 2400 GIs.

Garrison is still so right.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
64. Let me by you a drink for that great summary.
What ya havin

:toast:

"It's Fascism. It's the multinational Oil Mafia. It's the Rogue spooks, dirty bankers, NSA contractors, Faux NewsCorp, oil sheikhs and crazy Israeli rightists who collective are BushCo."

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. As some former CIA agent said: "The Nazis didn't lose the war,
they just had to move."
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. So, a former CIA agent gets it too. I am slightly encouraged.
I wish everybody got it. Of course if you're high profile and you get it you become suicidal. If you have a family you may actually even commit the suicide yourself.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. More then a few get it
Indira Singh mentions that there are good guys in the various agencies, and that they warn that what the neocons are leading us towards "will make the 3rd Reich look like a tea party".

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's true. She gave a fascinating interview on Guns n Butter.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
65. Your post made me immediately think of Hunter S. Thompson


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
77. That's what I think about quite a few of the recent "suicides". Gary Webb
David Kay, Jim Hatfield, that guy from Enron whose name I can't remember.
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enfield collector Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. yup, I only used to buy Playboy for the articles.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Took me some time to realize there can be more truth to that
than many people think there is.
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Jim Garrison
employed some pretty fascistic tactics himself when it suited his own purpsoses. He was also something of a paranoid and fantasist.

Still, makes some interesting points.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. If you believe the RW smear
Which is directed at Garrison for obvious reasons, except to those who think JFK was killed by Oswald.
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Yes, I believe all RW smears, obviously
That's why I posted what I did - because I trust and indeed love the RW smear machine. It's the starting point for all my political opinions.

And I love Bush and the Iraq war too and belive it is going really well.

Sheesh.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. thanks for clearing that up
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
78. Garrison was mostly right
Of course gathering up the bad guys is hard work!
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Wow.
That is downright creepy. Was Jim a time traveler?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. He saw it
In the context of his investigation of the Kennedy assassination he saw the fascist nature of those who really are in power. The JFK assassination was a victory for them, as was the assassination of MLK, and of Bobby Kennedy. Basically the fascists were winning, and it only got worse since.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
25. came to the same conclusion in the early 70's.
he was ahead of the curve but he's older than me. frankly, i'm not at all sure how it was missed. some think fascism arrived with gwb. the merger of corporation and state has existed to one degree or another for over one hundered years. it fully blossomed after wwii and "our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society" has long been evident (though i would again emphasize the corporate power). that means dems and repubs are in it together. sorry, it's inescapable.
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Reluctantly, I would have to agree...
Just to see Poppy Bush and Bill Clinton chumming around together tells me that all the rhetoric about the two party system is just a distraction to keep the masses at each other's throats.

Why are we frustrated about Democrats not going after Bush*? After you read this piece it becomes apparent.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. damn
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
32. Online Playboy's interview with Jim Garrison is here
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JunkYardDogg Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
36. Felix Rodriguez was the one involved in JFK's Assassination
He was a Pig of Pigs invasion leader
JFK pulled the air support at the last minute and the Liberation force was doomed
JFK was assassinated as retribution by Cuban Freedom Fighters
Felix Rodriguez was deeply involved in that
He career is based on whacking people
Remember the Lee Harvey Oswald Cuban set up evidence
Felix Rodriguez later joined the Special Forces , fought in 'Nam, stayed in Special Forces and
was active in many Black Ops activities
He was instrumental in the Iran /Contras Drugs for money for weapons deal
There was a report of seeing him with Bush Sr. at a Central American Airplane hangar loading drugs into a plane
Felix Rodriguez is a hierarchy member of the SwiftBoat Fucks and was instrumental in the SwiftBoat smear campaigns
Which leads to the following question:
How much of a role did Felix Rodriguez play in the Anthrax attack on the Inquirer and Liberal Dem members of Congress, which
led to the passage of the Patriot Act, the Iraqi War, and no more National Inquirer articles on the debauched behavior of the
Bush Cyclone Sisters
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
72. Yep.
And Che's death.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
37. actually, I believe it started with FDR
remember certain industrialists in this country were financing Fascistic regimes, Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. If Gen. Smedley Butler is correct, then these same power hungry industrialists attempted a coup against FDR.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Dupont and Morgan Bank
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. A Knights of Malta connection via the founders of our CIA perhaps
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1983/07/willbedone.html

It starts around the time the Knights Templar were persecuted out of existence in 1307 by the Pope and King of France, who gave away Templar lands to the Knights Hospitalers. The Knights Hospitalers eventually became Knights of Malta. The Knights Templar, having gone underground eventually became the Freemasons.

Martin Luther's time, around the 1500's, shows us that Luther believed the papacy was an 'antichrist'. The Catholic heirarcy had to react and in the 1500s during the Counter-Reformation the Jesuits posited the 'futurist' view of the identity of "the" antichrist: a future person yet to come. See

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

Having infiltrated the Freemasons by the 1700s, the Jesuits insert 'attenuating' degrees past the original first thru third degrees which were the original Knight Templar hand-downs, complete with Satanic symbolism and other occultations all designed to weaken the Freemasonic movement, which was populated with anti-authoritarians like Washington, Bolivar, Diaz, Garibaldi, Kerenski, etc. The Scottish rite and post third degree 'mumbo-jumbo', as Umberto Eco shows in his humorous Foucault's Pendulum novel, are evidence that someone made a wrong turn when using Freemasonry and the Knights Templar a source of 'hidden knowledge' past those initial first three degrees.

BTW, the Red White and Blue of our flag are the color symbols of those first three degrees: White, entered apprentice first degree; blue, fellowcraft second degree; and red, the Master Mason's color, third degree.

By the time of 1948 and after the founding of the state of Israel, futurism became so imbued into modern evangelical protestantism that the Jesuit's Francisco Ribera's work could said to be done !

Imagine, the only error that George Monbiot makes in his article below is in saying that futurism/dispensationalism originated in the 1800s

Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html

when it actually began with the Jesuits, and furthered the interests of the aristocratic Knights of Malta and their hidden agenda...




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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Oh no! I thought Jesuits were the good guys, fighting the Opus Dei types
Aren't the Jesuits the ones that get assassinated by the right wing death squads?
Or perhaps they've just changed a lot since the 1500s.

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Merely a 'turf war'
Newsweek article, Decoding Opus Dei

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7288539/site/newsweek/

called it 'poaching' as stirring up the original stife. Note the backstabbing tactics so effectively used against others now turned inward ?

Good guys, like John Paul I, got whacked.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I am old enough to remember when he was murdered.
Another of those presently unprovable knowns. So there are good Jesuits and bad Jesuits? I doubt there are good Opus Dei-ists.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. FDR
Anyone else notice the parallels with regards to * - anything FDR stood for, founded in this nation, was up against seems to be the exact opposite of what * pushes to destroy.

Genealogy re *'s grandfather maternal and especially paternally is very noteworthy.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
38. Joan Mellen's book "A Farewell To Justice" shows intell agencies behind
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 11:37 AM by EVDebs
JFK's murder. A great investigative tour de force.

www.joanmellen.net

"Her biography turned into the story of Garrison's investigation and then into a new investigation of the assassination itself.

Working with thousands of previously unreleased documents and drawing on more than one thousand interviews, with many witnesses speaking out for the first time, Joan Mellen revisits the investigation of New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison, the only public official to have indicted, in 1969, a suspect in President John F. Kennedys murder.

Garrison began by exposing the contradictions in the Warren Report, which concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was an unstable pro-Castro Marxist who acted alone in killing President Kennedy. A FAREWELL TO JUSTICE reveals that Oswald was no Marxist and was in fact working with both the FBI and the CIA, as well as with U.S. Customs, and that the attempts to sabotage Garrisons investigation reached the highest levels of the U.S. government."

Prima facie evidence of the invisible hand of fascism in the USA, then and now. We still can't get at most of the hidden record, CIA files or other documentation.


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Also interviewed on Guns N Butter
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=13099

"How the Failure to Identify, Prosecute and Convict President Kennedy's Assassins Has Led to Today's Crisis of Democracy" with author Joan Mellen speaking about her most recent book, "A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination and the Case That Should Have Changed History" on January 24, 2006 at the Ethical Culture Society in New York City.
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StaggerLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
Great find.

:dem:

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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
48. "...concentration camp of the mind..."
I've got this bookmarked and e-mailed. K&R
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. Original Playboy website for full interview...
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
52. LibertyorDeath, Thank you. Garrison was a hero. Courage despite the odds
And did the PTB ever go after him. Non stop. I remember when he went on the Johnny Carson Show, which everybody watched (3 networks, up late, ya know). Carson had scripted questions. This is ONLY time I every thought Carson every screwed up (he was a genius).

Recommended. I'd put you on my buddy list, but you're already there;)
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #52
66. "I'd put you on my buddy list, but you're already there"
Hey back at you autorank you have some of the most informative posts on DU bar none.

Have you seen this

http://www.votergate.tv/

Cheers !

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. I have and it's outstanding. I recommend to every citizen!
We'll win, it's just a matter of time and getting that "Illinois" Spirit, Land of Lincoln thing going. :thumbsup: to you!
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. Fascism, Communism...
military-industrial complex, totalitarianism, police-state, fear instilled on citizens, book banning, censorships, being watched, unitary ruler-ship, imperialism-colonialism, and on and on...

Sound familiar?

Historians, Lawyers and History majors know.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
54. Wow. Jim Garrison "knew" back in 1967. Shew...
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
56. Even though more than 40 years have passed
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 10:13 PM by Jose Diablo
what is transpiring today is a direct result of what happened on Nov 22, 1963. That date is the date this country was taken over by the fascists. All this time, we have been in an illusion of freedom. It was not just the Vietnam War the protesters were fighting. It was for the soul of our nation, and the protesters lost, when Nixon was let off the hook and the whole deal was smoothed over like a cat burying shit. The people went back to sleep when the war ended. This is why I have deep anger for guys like Ford, he made a deal at our country's expense. Both on the Warren Commission and his pardon of Nixon. But others see him as a nice guy. Don't believe it. He is as guilty as the shooters.

When people that are not familiar with the JFK assassination hear others talk of the assassination, many do not see it as relevant to todays events. The 43rd presidential 2000 phoney election coup of this country and the Republican takeover of Congress could not have occurred if those that had murdered Kennedy had been brought to justice. The '63 coup had people deep within the government and the media covering it up. Just like 9/11 today. Until people understand the connection, we will never root these people out and take back our government. It's like Libby said, they are connected at the roots, like aspen trees. All that will happen is the faces will change, the underlaying power will still be in control.

The reason the '63 events were covered it up, is because if the full magnitude of what had happened and who did it became known, the war hawks on both sides of the aisle would be brought down, this country would have followed Europe into socialism. And thats why Kennedy was murdered, to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. That is what they feared. That is what they fear today, is that people will find-out what they have done, all in the name of capitalism. It's about the self-interest of the ultra wealthy. It even connects the off-shoring of jobs, the production facilities are being moved in anticipation of the people finding out, so the wealthy can keep their money and just move to say, Dubai for example. And leave an empty husk behind, in what was the most productive nation in the world.

For this reason, I am going to kick the thread to the top once more.

I don't know about all that Jesuit/Illuminati stuff as to its relevance, but Kennedy was murdered. And Oswald was the patsy they set-up to take the fall. Sometimes CT's are real and other nutzo CT are put forth to discredit the real CT. People hear about the 13th century and think this stuff is nuts (personally so do I) and then throw away the real CT stuff, like what Garrison talked about. The people that murdered Kennedy are still in power.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #56
67. Tell it Jose... Great post !
"The reason the '63 events were covered it up, is because if the full magnitude of what had happened and who did it became known, the war hawks on both sides of the aisle would be brought down, this country would have followed Europe into socialism. And thats why Kennedy was murdered, to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. That is what they feared. That is what they fear today, is that people will find-out what they have done, all in the name of capitalism."
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #56
79. Good Post!
:thumbsup:
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
60. I posted this last night & had to head to bed
to get up for a double shift today
so apologies for not getting back to
all these great responses sooner.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
63. The people responsible for JFK- MLK, RFK gave us 9-11
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
69. If FEDs had helped, Garrison would've busted the conspiracy...
...and we'd be living in a different world today. Consider if we devoted just HALF of our annual defense budget to humanitarian purposes, we'd be able to feed, clothe, provide clean water and sanitary conditions to every one in the world in need.

But the FEDs didn't want to reveal the TRUTH about the assassination of President Kennedy. Why?

DODFBICIAJohnsonDullesEtc wanted WAR. JFK wanted peace. See John Newman's "JFK and Vietnam" and the works of Peter Dale Scott and James Galbraith.

Garrison's Playboy Interview, in its entirety:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. He had certainly
identified a significant portion of the operation. I think that what he found was summed up most accurately in the scene from the movie "JFK," where he met with Mr. X in the park. I consider that to be one of the single best scenes in the history of film.

I thought of you this weekend. I went to the local library book sale, and among the books I bought was "Special Envoy" by W. Averell Harriman. I try to read books by people who I view as representing that which I disagree with, and Mr. Harriman fits that description. I think that some time back, perhaps early in the discussions of the Plame scandal, I had mentioned the "High Cabal" that Churchill spoke of, and which Prouty addresses in his book "JFK." I had mentioned James Baker III as one of those who moves back and forth behind the veil, and into "government." If memory serves me correctly, you mentioned Harriman, who is simply the best example of this group. And I remember thinking, "Yes, exactly."

Another of the books that had me thinking of you quoted the poem that a CIA briefer included in JFK's PDB on the morning of 11-22-63:

Bullfight critics ranked in rows
Crowd the enormous Plaza full;
But only one is there who knows,
And he's the man who fights the bull.

The Clanna Fitzgerald has a long memory.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. All of the above is largely accurate, except about why Kennedy was
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 09:01 AM by leveymg
killed.

If you want to understand Jack Kennedy's life and death, you have to look at who his father was. Joe Kennedy, Sr. was a leader of the appeasement Right-wing of the Democratic Party. He was considered so dangerous a Nazi sympathizer by FDR that a way had to be found to get him the hell of Dodge. He was send to London in the late 1930s as Ambassador. This placed him in a position where he could be effectively watched, as the US President then did not then have the mechanism to carry out political surveillance. Churchill did the same thing with Viscount Halifax, British Ambassador to Washington (1940-46), who before his departure was the leader of the UK Fifth Column.

Joe, Sr. was essentially fired in December 1941 after one of his aides was caught by British intelligence passing copies of classified cables to the Germans.

Jack Kennedy did not run as a liberal. He was to the right of Adlai Stevenson, and during the 1960 campaign taunted Richard Nixon, the Republican candidate, for not being aggressive enough with the Russians and Cubans. After he was elected, he had a last-minute change of mind about invading Cuba. It was revealed during the Clinton Administration that a Russian combat brigade in Cuba had tactical nukes, and was authorized to use them in the event the Americans invaded in force. JFK may have received that message through a back-channel to Krushchev, and by sacrificing those on the beaches, avoided nuclear war. For this, Kennedy was never forgiven by the participants in the inadequate, doomed CIA invasion group. Apparently, G.W.H. Bush was involved with the operation, his oil company supplied the "Barbara", the "Zapata" and the "Houston", three cargo ships used in the amphibious operation at the Bay of Pigs.

The JFK assassination involved at least three cover stories. The one given to the Warren Commission members was that Oswald was an agent of Castro and the Soviets, and that their role in the plot had to be kept secret to prevent WW3. The inner cover story, the one handed to the operational group that carried out the assassination and key government insiders, was that JFK was sharing secrets with a female Romanian intelligence agent he was sleeping with, and that killing Kennedy would spare the country the agony of having to impeach the President on treason charges. The public was given the lone gunman story, embellished with the single-bullet theory nonsense cooked up by Arlen Specter.

My belief is that the Kennedy assassinations were a vendetta against Joe, Sr. who was assigned a role rather similar to that of Prescott Bush to create a political dynasty that would effectively control post-War American politics on behalf of the handful of super-wealthy families that founded and then still controlled the biggest corporations -- the Morgans, DuPonts, Rockefellers, Mellons, McCormicks, Singers -- basically the same group who in 1934 had failed in their half-brained coup attempt against FDR. The principal mentor for both the Kennedy and Bush boys were the same: the Harrimans. Av Harriman was the primary American money man behind Union Trust Bank of New York, the international bank founded and controlled by Fritz Theyssen, who was Hitler's Banker and earliest big financial supporter of the Nazi Party. Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker were top managers of this and several other German commercial interests siezed as enemy property after World War Two broke out. Av Harriman was US Ambassador to Moscow and later to Saigon. Late in his life, he married the former Pamela Digby, who had divorced Winston Churchill's alcoholic son. Pam Harriman went on to be the Grand Dame of the Democratic Party during the 1980s, turning the party to the right away from the New Deal faction, and promoting the careers of a pair of attractive centrists from Arkansas.

The Rockefeller-controlled Republic and Chase banks were also primary American money centers for Germany under the Nazis. The Wall Street law firm that represented Germany, along with the Du Ponts, the Rockefellers, and Morgan was Sullivan & Cromwell, headed by the Dulles Brothers, who ran the other faction of American politics, the Republican Party. John Foster was the head of the Republican National Committee during the 1930s and 1940s, before he was appointed Secretary of State by Eisenhower. His younger brother, Allen, spent World War Two as OSS Chief of Station in Bern, Switzerland, where he intermediated the flow of money and information between the US and Axis countries. The Dulles Bros. were the chief operating officers of America during the 1950s, and the Kennedys had been assigned the reserve role as their successors in the event the Democrats regained the Presidency, which they did in 1960. Something went terribly wrong with Joe Kennedy boys, who proved far too independent for the tastes of those who had nurtured them. So, each was neutralized, along with the grand kids.

Richard Nixon, who had been mentored by the Dulles, took over in 1968. He also proved problematic. After an interregnum, The Bush family ran things again from 1980-1992, when Pam Harriman's protege came in, only to be replaced in 2000 by the oldest third generation of Bushes.

All this points to the dynastic nature of American presidents, and that both parties have ended up being led by the hand-picked agents of the country's most wealthy ruling families. In the 21st Century, the powers that be are more multinational, and those picked by them are considerably less interested in promoting national interests than their 20th Century predecessors. The strategy today appears to be to divest from U.S. holdings, off-shoring capital to higher return markets in Asia. So, we can expect to see the cabal's policies to continue to have the effect of disinvestment, a build-up of debt, and a weakening of the ability of the U.S. to control the world's politics and economy, and even its own affairs.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Uh, are you gonna finish the post?
"My belief is that JFK and....

Look I am listening to what you have to say, spit it out. What do you think?
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. OK, JFK was snuffed because he turned away from the dark side
Edited on Mon Apr-24-06 09:17 AM by Jose Diablo
and the power centers came to see him as a threat to their careful manipulations to continue on a path of theft and continuous war against the people. The people both here and around the world.

Makes sense. And that Harriman, I think your right about that being the core of the rotten apple.

Edit: What's left is to 'social network' (Like what Mark Lombardi did) Harriman and forward to today and we have all the players, that need to be taken to the docket of justice. Then we can concentrate on rebuilding for a better future. Think of it as digging up the roots of the Aspens, that Libby wrote to Judy Miller about. Dig them up and then burn the roots. That's how a gardener gets rid of the weeds.

You know, that Harriman was also responsible for having that S. Viet president killed too, I seem to remember.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
74. I'll have to get back to this, ya know the great * economy and all
Thanks for bringing this! I read his book on Kennedy years ago and he was the only one to prosecute someone for the murder of our President. That Murdewr ushered in the current crop of fascists.
K & R
:dem:
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
76. this is so true
and instead of swastikas, it is poverty level living, no health-care, McDonald's every block, corporations paying pennies, yikes. It is all sell, sell or buy, buy.
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
80. too valuable to lose
Any appropriate thread in the DU research forum?
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