The gender of the pages involved in Foley-gate.

[Bunny]

I've been thinking about the gender of these kids, and I wonder if anyone else feels the same as I do: if the pages involved were female, i.e., if Foley was a hetero perv as compared to a homosexual perv, do you think there would be a LOT MORE speculation as to the overall "sluttiness" of the girls? I believe only Drudge has so far tried to insinuate that the pages involved were little gay sluts.

Instead of trying to spin it as a "frat-boy style prank", as the Republicans tried to do yesterday, the focus would instead be on the sexual histories and behavior of the girls. I think they'd be called gold-digging tramps and any other names you can think of.

Do you have an opinion on this?

[VelmaD]

1. I think you are absolutely correct

If anyone actually cared at all they would be tearing the poor girls apart.

And you can bet your bottom dollar there are plenty of reps harassing the female pages...we just haven't heard about it yet.

on edit: I double-dog dare you to post this in GD. *snort*

[Bunny]

2. Haha! There's no way I'd post this in GD, I can't tolerate the

whiney defensiveness of some of the menfolk there. ;)

See, I think there'd be a lot of attention paid to the girls because it's so much easier to spin it when there are girls involved. It can very quickly be turned from Foley's perviness to their sluttiness - that's something people understand, after all.

When the targets are boys, that just makes everyone so damned uncomfortable that they (meaning the men, generally) can't bring themselves to paint the boys as sluts. It would make them squirm to unfairly tar another male as *gasp* gay.

Painting girls as tramps and young temptresses falls so much more easily into people's comfort zones, don't you know.

Edited to make my point more clear.

[ThomCat]

3. I absolultely agree. And the religious right would not

be nearly as concerned with the overall morals of the Republicans. Most people would not have a problem with the cover-up, and Foley would still have his job. The focus would be primarily on the girls.
"Why did they let this happen?"
"Who else were these sluts having online sex with?"
x(

[Bunny]

4. Yeah, I think you're exactly right.

:thumbsup:

[bleedingheart]

5. of course it would be...they would be the wanton vixens who

drove him into lechery....

[Bunny]

6. Those are the words I was looking for.

The girls tempted him to do this. How was he supposed to resist????

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Oh, definitely. Harrassing female pages would be considered almost

"droit du seigneur." (A medieval term describing a lord's right to use his female serfs sexually)

I'm reminded of the teacher at my high school who made sexual advances to girls for over twenty years before anyone in authority got worked up enough to fire him for it. Knowing some of the troglodytes on the school board at that time, I suspect that some of them even considered him a "lucky dog."

I'm also reminded of how Anita Hill was treated when she brought sexual harrassment charges against Clarence Thomas. Who can forget that smug Doggett character who acted as if she was some kind of slut because she flirted with him while he was out jogging?

If Foley had been sending e-mails to female pages with content similar to what he sent to the male pages, the Republicans would have gone into overtime spin mode, digging into the girls' backgrounds, telling us which ones weren't virgins, interviewing ex-boyfriends, and trying to tell us that the targets of his harrassment actually had crushes on him and were paying him back for not reciprocating. Or, if they happened to be lesbians, their accusations would be painted as "man hating."

It's scary how easily I can imagine such a scenario.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Easy, the girls wouldn't even be seen as victims

Female objects of predators evoke very strong and visceral anger reactions in the public when, and only when, they are obviously pre-pubescent. The minute she starts developing anything resembling second sex characteristics, she becomes fair game and becomes by default responsible for the behavior of every male in her presence. There's a disgusting expression I used to hear (only half in jest IMO) from guys: "If there's grass on the playing field, play ball." That's a reference to pubic hair. And hetero sex is the "normal" kind so preying on girls is viewed as being far less problematic.


Boys get to be considered victims much longer due to the homophobic perception of gays-as-predators. Of course, he was coerced and/or manipulated into "unnatural" behavior. And that's disgusting. That's why Drudge's attempt to portray the boys as culpable ain't working. I'm glad it's not but you know it would be if they were girls.

[ismnotwasm]

9. I was just talking with my daughter in law about that

And I agree %100. It's not to hard to find both sexism AND homophobia in the national response to this. If it were young girls, not only would their sexuality be called into question, but there'd be pictures to go right along with it. Probably a new "Pages Gone Wild video genre. At least a new porn video. Playboy would be offering photo shoots the day the girls turned 18. On and on.

They'd play it out as far as they could. I can just see the nod nod wink wink look at that School Girl Young Stuff bullshit we'd be getting.

But since it's Young Boys, we get solemn indignation and rats jumping the ship left and right.

[ThomCat]

10. I've been discussing exactly that with my coworkers.

The women are all nodding and agreeing. Many of the guys are insisting it's not true. They're essentially denying that a sexism/homophobia is even a consideration.
x(

[Solly Mack]

11. Know how it took a while for the male pages to be impugned?

Females pages would not have been so lucky...their characters would have been attacked instantly.

They would have been called everything from whores to Lolita's within minutes.

In the same articles exposing the scandal, there would have been speculation and innuendo about the sex lives of female pages

[melnjones]

12. I agree.

I think that what Foley did was equally bad regardless of the gender of his victims, but yes, the girls would have been vilianized by the media.

[bliss_eternal]

13. Hell yes.

I believe it would have been a very different situation and outcome.

I wondered how different the fallout would have been if the pages were women. Then my mind went to every huge case involving women and a political figure--Monica Lewinsky, Anita Hill...
:eyes:

Great post, btw! :hi:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

14. I absolutely agree

When women are the victims, they receive most if not all of the blame. Then there are those same misogynist talking points:
"She led him on"
"What was she wearing?"
"I bet she sleeps around"
"She threw herself at him"
"She's probably a slut anyway"
"She is just making it up for the money"

It takes a woman of rock-bottom self-esteem to vote Republican.