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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 06:25 PM
Original message
The "Ben Stein" email & the debunking
The email going around is made up of 1) some actual comments from Ben Stein and 2) some other crappy emails that have been roaming around for a while.

I have included the "Ben Stein" email (at the very bottom of the post where it belongs) and my response to it. I hope that it will help you.

My Response:
Part of the email that you forwarded did come from Ben Stein. Of course, even if it did, Nixon's ex-speech writer doesn't need to lecture anyone on how to be a Christian.

As far as the comments from Billy Graham's daughter, the last time I received this email, her comments were supposedly in reference to 9/11. (That's also explained in the link that I attached above) Anyway, when you accept God into your heart, no amount of laws can prevent you from carrying Him with you, correct? So, if God is omnipresent, then how can any Earthly laws prevent Him from being with us when we need Him?

Madeleine Murray O'Hare was murdered, yes, but not because she is an atheist. She was murdered for greed. For Ben Stein to reference her murder as some sort of backhand way of condemning atheists is shameful. If that logic held, then all believers would never have to worry about being murdered.

Children can still pray in schools. Schools and the government just cannot endorse one religion over another as we do not live in a theocracy. I'm glad for that. One's religion does not have anything to do with one's morality. If that were the case, then Pat Robertson wouldn't be calling for the murder of Hugo Chavez and no preachers would ever murder their spouses, steal from their churches or molest young children, right?

For what it's worth, Dr. Spock's son DID NOT commit suicide. That is quite shameful to spread around.

These types of emails do not serve any purpose but to whip up feelings of anger and resentment toward those who do not believe the way that we do. Jesus says, "Love thy neighbor as thyself." He said that this is the greatest commandment. I believe that in my heart.

I could just let this email pass but more and more these days, I find that I cannot let these types of emails continue past me without at least bringing in the truth.

The Ben Stein email:

If they know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone . He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly.
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary, Sunday, 12/18/05.

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important?
I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are.
If this is what it means to be no longer young. It's not so bad.

Next confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.
It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crèche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from thatAmerica is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.

But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

(This is where the comments from Ben Stein end. I do not know where these comments come from. Arnie)

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina)

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.
Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

Don't let the hatred and bigotry pass your eyes unchallenged! You can make a difference and stop the chain.


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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. thanks for posting /nt
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-02-06 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. FWIW -- spelling Madalyn Murray O'Hair's name
"Christians" spell it O'Hare more often than O'Hair, which is the way she actually spelled it. This kind of use comes from "word mojo," the same way a lot of us write "Repukelickers" or "Mann Coulter". I'm not fond of it when WE do it, but the lapse on the part of the Religious Right is out of their control -- they just-plain-old don't spell well, and don't care.

We ought to take the initiative over this and similar juvenile behaviors, in our debunkeries. A mild rebuke (not repuke!) about perverse misspelling can load up the shame with very little cost. The worse we can make our adversaries feel about promoting lies and disinfo, even if it's from making "honest mistakes," the better.

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txwhitedove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. This was THE e-mail sent to me at work by 'friends'....
after I'd moved from MS to Houston because of Hurricane Katrina. When the friendly co-workers realized I didn't like the e-mail, they wanted to debate it and their negative opinions boiled down to race. Since I'm white and not from New Orleans, guess they thought it was okay to send such lies to me. I was so shocked, horrified, spent a whole weekend browsing the internet finding more of similar vein condemning refugees. H.Katrina was an overwhelming natural disaster/and partially man-made disaster due to inadequate levees. While re-establishing life in Houston, I was angry at government's lack of response to its citizens in distress. After this email, the last in a number of refugee jokes, I joined the local Democratic organization and DU, and now looking for new employment.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you!
Someone posted this thing on a message board, and I responded with the link to
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