Annoyed at Dean - am I being too sensitive?

[karynnj]

Dean put out this petition on the swiftboating of Murtha. He describes him -as he should- listing his bronze star. But as he then goes throughthe lists of others he describes Kerry as:

Then John Kerry, who received three purple hearts, being smeared in 2004.

He then needs to talk about himself:

"For two and a half years, I have been concerned about the U.S. policy and the plan in Iraq. I have addressed my concerns with the Administration and the Pentagon and have spoken out in public about my concerns. The main reason for going to war has been discredited. ...

I have been visiting our wounded troops at Bethesda and Walter Reed hospitals almost every week since the beginning of the War. And what demoralizes them is going to war with not enough troops and equipment to make the transition to peace; the devastation caused by IEDs; being deployed to Iraq when their homes have been ravaged by hurricanes; being on their second or third deployment and leaving their families behind without a network of support."

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My problem is that the RW goal was to steal John Kerry's record of true heroism away from him. I would have had less trouble if he didn't mention the purple hearts. But mentioning them (which you get for being hit) without 2 medals for genuine heroism diminishes Kerry's achievement. (equivalent to saying Dean had a job in the maedical field, not that he was adoctor.)

I posted - but I know this will not be popular.

[JI7]

1. i'm not sure

i don't think it really means anything. or at least it wasn't anything intentional.

but you can write an email or contact to let them know to include the other 2 medals.

[karynnj]

2. Probably makes more sense than being angry

but I doubt they'll change it. Dean really is egotistical - I wish he would drop the fiction that he was significantly more anti-war than Kerry.

[JI7]

3. i understand what you are saying about this

but i was more responding to the stuff about Kerry's purple hearts and lack of mention of the other medals. i agree it wont make much difference even if you do respond.

[karynnj]

4. I wrote that badly - need a transistion sentence

I wouldn't think of writing the other because that is likely his view of history.

[TayTay]

5. He should have mentioned the medals

The Rethugs are trying to paint the Dems as cowards. Those medals are proof against this charge. You don't get a Silver Star and the Bronze Medal for taking out the trash. You get them for extraordinary valor and courage. They should, logically, be mentioned as they strengthen Dean's argument. Dems are strong and courageous patriots.

[JI7]

6. you are right

an interesting thing during the swift boat attacks was their attempt to discredit one of those other medals. i think it might have been the Bronze mdeal. but it was for the Rassman rescue i think.

in their attempt to discredit him on that medal they did the same to others who also got medals during that event. it even resulted in one of the soldiers who didn't like Kerry to admit he only signed on to them because he was angry at him for protesting the war and not because of any questions concerning Kerry's part in the war.

[karynnj]

7. I did follow the link from the petion to get to the DNC site

then found link to send email to the Chairman. So, I sent a polite note saying what I said here - he is inadvertently perpetuating the smears.

Thanks J17 and Tay Tay - just needed reassurance that I wasn't seeing slights when they weren't there. Dean may not have even authored it.

[ray of light]

14. I'm telling you I don't believe it's accidental.

I sat there at a conference and watched Dean not jump to Kerry's defence over the election 'fraud' EVEN though the official DNC report says there was none!

NOW a REAL leader would have stood up and told the room of supporters to knock it off because there is no proof and JK did the right thing.

OR

The REAL leader would have made sure the report fits the position.

By doing neither, he simply showed he holds a grudge against JK and was going to make sure JK knows he's on his own.

I don't trust Dean after witnessing this!

[karynnj]

15. Sad to hear - what a jerk

I wonder who Dean will like in '08. He really should have even more reason to dislike Edwards because his pact with Kuchinich may have been why he came in third - I never saw any analysis on this - so I can be really off base. There were however lots of places where Kuchinich fell below 15%, so the question would be how many people were these and did they go to Edwards. The Clintons clearly recruited Clark to stop him.

[TayTay]

9. The Bronze Medal was for the rescue of Rassman.

I believe Kerry got the Bronze Medal because the officer in charge didn't want to go through the paperwork for another Silver Star, which is what that action deserved. (He did risk his own life for another.)

[karynnj]

12. Didn't Zumwold also want to give him a higher medal when he got

the silver, but he didn't because he wanted to award it immediately and the the higher one needed Congressional approval.

I'm just as impressed that he ignored orders and saved the 40+ villagers and that he never than used that to prove his morality.

[wisteria]

8. I agree, Kerry's medals are no secrete, it should have been

easy to find mention somewhere of all his medals. I suppose this is an oversight and might have been done by someone other than Dean.He should be made aware of it though.

[jillan]

10. karrynj - I posted a thread about Dean on Sunday, basically saying the

same thing after watching him on Meet the Press.

Dean is not a good speaker, he is egotistical, he doesn't provide the dem party with a unified message. Timmy was talking about all of the dems different plans on Iraq, and Dean just answered with "they can all say what they want". What he should be doing is pointing out the similarities, or at least saying something like what Kerry said - If Bsh isn't going to come up with an exit plan than we have to do it. But no, Dean pretty much answered with "i was against this war".

The last few times I have seen him, I was disappointed. And I wanted Dean to get the job. The dems have so much to celebrate, Dean should be boasting and bragging proudly.

[karynnj]

11. Saw your thread and saw MTP and totally agree with you

There's just something "not ready for prime time" about Dean. He seems to have no concept that he represents an organization.

He sacrifices the party's good to preserve what is more fiction than fact that he was anti-war when Kerry wasn't. He should know the positions of all major Dems and their reasons, before going on one of these shows. Compiling the latest info wouldn't take an intelligent aide more than an hour or two. As chairman, pushing all dems should be the goal.

[jillan]

13. Maybe he should watch Mehlman.

Mehlman makes me want to barf. But he is good. He is selling his man, selling the ideals, or in his case, selling the bullshit lies. But he is so good at it.

Or better yet, Randi Rhodes could be a role model. She is relentless.
She points out every flaw of the repugs, and talks up the dems.

No I don't want Howard to go to either of these extremes. I prefer professionalism, but he needs to get a clue.

[beachmom]

16. I have a different problem with the e-mail

He mentions that he goes to Walter Reed hospital nearly every week to visit the soldiers. This is just plain grotesque. Oh, so now that I visited those poor injured soldiers, I can brag about it in an e-mail to show how much I care.

I swear to God, I don't even want to KNOW if Kerry goes to that hospital. You know why? If the only reason a politician has to visit those soldiers, many of whom have lost part of themselves in Iraq, is so they can use it as ammunition for political gain, then it counts for absolutely zero. The ONLY reason why a politician or military general should go to that hospital is to thank them for their service, ask them if they need anything, and come away much humbler about the impact of government policy on these kids. Even * isn't stupid enough to clumsily brag about visiting that hospital. He simply does it, and stories come out from soldiers way after the fact (I read of a soldier who lost a limb, and when the president visited, he asked that his platoon receive more water. And by God, that platoon had more water within the week). I'm getting mad typing this realizing that Dean is making the chimp himself look good in comparison on this issue. And add on top of that that very sad post about the severely injured soldier who killed himself recently, and my blood is boiling.

Maybe Dean didn't write that e-mail, it was so dumb. As far as Kerry's medals, I'm still peeved that Chris Matthews repeatedly called John McCain a "hero" whereas Kerry is now only a Vietnam veteran. Okay, rant over.

[karynnj]

17. The strange thing with "hero" is that it is now an over used word

and they're withholding from one who most deserves it. There are many people, including Kerry, who refer to all the soldiers as heros. I really dislike it because it diminishes the word. I also think that between Kerry and McCain, Kerry was the one who was a hero.

From what I've heard, McCain was a mediocre airman until captured - his claim to being a hero is that he rejected an offer that would have let him come home early. Accepting it would have probably meant he would have come home disgraced. He then was a prisoner for 5 years, but he couldn't have forseen that - the Paris Peace talks had already started. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - too much of this is from DU)

Kerry was a hero because he risked his life to save someone in one instance and in the other he had spend a lot of time thinking about what to do in an ambush, had proposed and sold an alternative to what people were doing (and getting killed), and then implemented it and when it ran into a problem, he put himself in the most dangerous position of going after the guy he killed. I also thought he was a hero for an action, for which he got yelled at rather than a medal, which was as heroic as the 2 events he did get medals for. He took a personal risk (of being shot) to check before shooting what turned out to be civilians. Then because the 40+ villagers were in the free fire zone, malnourished and sick, he brought them out of there even though he didn't have permission to and was asked how many dead each time he said he had civilians. I liked when Alexandra spoke of all girls thinking there dad's were heros and then realizing as she got older than hers really was.

I agree with you that Dean's letter - that I won't sign - is a shameless piece - even beyond ignoring Kerry's well earned medals. It does bring back other things I only read here after the election. Someone posted that Teresa mentioned that Kerry was called by all of his opponents, except Dean, after his surery to wish him well. As he was Dr. Dean you would think he would. When the remains of Dean's brother were returned to the family in Dec '03, Dean in talking about it and how important it was to his family, didn't have the courtesy of mentioning that the man most reponsible for the huge effort made by the South east asian governments was John Kerry. (Kerry, with his usual class, had the modesty or grace to not say a word. Not turning a solumn Dean family moment to political advantage.) Dean's people were also the ones who talked of Kerry's elite background, when Dean grew up on Park Avenue.

I assume Kerry does go and like you, I'm glad he doesn't take a camera crew or put out a press release. he has talked about speaking to soldiers. The only reason I can think of for mentioning it were if it were necessary to make the case that they are not getting the care they need. He advocated for injured soldiers from the time he returned to the US and was still in the Navy in Brooklyn, so I imagine he does see them.

[jillan]

18. What do you think will happen when Kerry wins the dem nomination for '08

(yes, I am an eternal optimist)

and Dean in the DNC chairman?
Do you think Dean would feel resentment? Memories of Iowa coming back?

[wisteria]

20. I wonder myself, how enthusiasticly he will support JK in 2008

if Kerry decides to run.

[Mass]

21. Each time Dean talk with the media about Kerry after he stopped running,

he was a great surrogate. He was a lot more effective, IMHO, that some other surrogates who seemed ill-at-ease with Kerry's positions or his supposed aloofness (in fact those who thought that we needed somebody from the South).

So, I am not sure he would be that bad if Kerry gets the nomination. Before is another question, though.

[fedupinBushcountry]

25. Ok, my time to rant

I have never ever supported Dean, and I will never support him. I remember seeing Dean on TV in the early days of his campaign. I am one of these gut instincts type of people, and my gut told me I don't believe him.

I didn't know why I was getting that feeling, I went and did my research on him, he was alright politically speaking, but I didn't see leadership in him. As the primaries really got underway and of course I was for JK back in April '03, I started finding out why I had that initial gut feeling about him.

Of course the media played to him, they definitely wanted a Dean/Bush election. Why? Because they knew Dean would not win. To me Dean played on that media attention and IMO put himself on a pedestal of me, me, me. Certainly he cared about people and this country, but to me he cared more about himself.

In the early days of the Kerry blog, I saw the lengths of what Dean and his supporters would do to keep him on that pedestal, and it wasn't pretty. I saw the talking points, which enede up being the Republican talking points on Kerry, the flip-flop started with Dean. The hate and evil cruel things that the Deaniacs brought to the Kerry blog made me sick. I got so tired of it I wrote a letter to Joe Trippi and told him please we are all Democrats and what some of Dean supporters where saying on the Kerry blog was not good for anyone. Well Joe Trippi did tell them to stop and I appreciate that, but it didn't last for long. I also know for a fact that the Kerry bloggers did not go over to Dean's sight, we were better than that.

When the Kerry won the primary , the hate and ugliness continued. Whatever the media said about Kerry the Deaniacs brought to the blog, including the nastiness of the wift boat liars.

I don't hate Dean, I was glad when he supported Kerry, and he worked hard for the campaign. But I do blame him for putting himself on a pedestal of ego, and attracting those who also wanted that type of pedestal themselves.

I didn't want him for DNC chair, some talk about the Democrats bamboozled us into electing Kerry, well I say that we were bamboozled into electing Dean the DNC chair. I thought we had a good selection of Democrats for that position, and I myself wanted Foley or the guy from Texas, but I say we didn't have a say into who we wanted.

I'm rambling now, but one last thing, I am tired of Dean and his I approach to speaking on all topics. He is the head of the DNC and he should be speaking for us not himself, he still is not down from that pedestal and neither are some of his supporters.

I know some here like Dean and that is fine with me, I totally respect those that do, and I will never go out in GD and criticize him I am better than that, I am a proud Kerrycrat.

Just my 2 cents

:rant:

[TayTay]

26. Good rant!

I never bought all the stuff about Dean either. He was a moderate Gov of Vermont and there have always been questions about him and some of his dealings with the big chemical companies in VT. (The Monsanto thing.) I never thought he handled the Vermont 'civil unions' case as well as he said he did. (I thought the decision was forced on him and he then ran with it after he saw he didn't have that many options.)

[karynnj]

27. You were far more perceptive in 03 then I was

I was hoping Dean and Kerry as "liberal" NE people wouldn't split the same vote, taking out the only two candidates I was interested in.

In a way it was stupid, we spend a week in VT each summer and were fascinated by how the Democratic Governor was opposed so often by the progressives. But, I had a positive opinion possibly coming from when he was one of the people mentioned as aiding Hillary on the heath care thing - that became a mess. At that time the NYT was really positive about him. The people in the state house in Vt were very positive about him when we toured - as the people in the WH now would be about Bush.

At the same time, I knew of Kerry from the 1970s and from seeing him on the talk shows. He always seemed very smart and thoughtful and I knew I usually agreed with his positions. But these were all very vague.

After research, there was no comparison. After a debate or two, there were things in Dean's interactions that I really didn't like. He seemed very aggressive toward the others, but whined if anyone said anything.

[jillan]

19. Great rant! n/t

[wisteria]

22. I suppose Matthews gives McCain credit for being a prisoner of war

which is noble, but really doesn't make much sense. Kerry's actions were equally heroic though different.

[Mass]

23. You're right, and you can note that Kerry NEVER speaks about that

This may be his natural reserve in these situations, but he never does it.

[TayTay]

24. No, he never does.

Rassmann and what Kerry did to save his life, never would have come up if Rassmann himself didn't volunteer to speak about it. Kerry has been very reticent about talking about his actions in Vietnam. He is much more confortable talking about that war at almost arm's length. (And not. I mean, that war it is there in his eyes, as it has always been there in his eyes, at least as far back I remember seeing him.)

My father never talked about his experiences in WWII. I think it's because there weren't any words to talk about it with me. I wasn't there. I could never understand what he went through. I think it might be the same thing with Mr. Kerry. He can send reports in from that far distant shore, but that's all. The words aren't there. The shared common experience is not there. So, what I get is that gravitas, that moving glimpse of knowledge of what happens and how it can affect people. (Gosh, I'm glad he found THK. She seems to leaven some of this, as do his daughters. They bring, as love so often does, lightness and purpose and a sweeter meaning to life. Thank goodness. That's so much healthier for all concerned.)