Meta Kos for those inclined for some juicy gossip

[beachmom]

DailyKos has totally blown up, and at the end of the day, it's over the war with some personal vendettas thrown in for good measure. The defunders vs. the incrementalists is how I would characterize it. I'm in the second group myself, but I do not hate the defunders -- I just think it's a stupid idea, at least right now. I believe in an orderly withdrawal from Iraq with a real plan to back it up. Frankly, I don't want to see Iraqis hanging from the last copter out of Baghdad -- it was good that the Vietnam War ended, but it could have been ended better. This is not my position forever necessarily. I just know that right now, I do not want Democrats to defund the war because it will look like we are depriving troops of what they need, and also because of the regional situation which must be dealt with delicately. We had NO plan going in and I feel it will compound the problem if we have NO plan going out.

With that said, here is the gossip. Big Tent Democrat who has annoyed me in the past is . . . drumroll . . . ARMANDO in a new disguise!!! And, he left dailykos a week ago, but I missed it:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/6/0357/06996

And that brings us to today's drama. Maryscott O'Connor of My Left Wing apparently went on Fox News Radio and proceeded to bash Markos. Listen here:

http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070310114235/index.html

Then somebody wrote a diary calling MSOC a wingnut in Kossak clothing:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/13/0286/81960#c1580


I'm kind of staying out of the drama, and don't have a full opinion on it. A lot of what MSOC said in the interview about Markos, many here have said before. But would you say it on Fox News? And also, how does that square with her break with the John Kerry Blog in '04 over Markos's "Screw them" remark? Look, once in a while MSOC will rec one of my diaries, as has One Pissed Off Liberal also of My Left Wing, and my diaries are never left wing rants, so none of this is very simple. But . . . it is very interesting.

Also what I got from that radio program was something I suspected but didn't know for sure since I don't frequent RW blogs -- Republican politicians are NOT posting on RW blogs. They don't really engage with their base in that way, so to me that is another reason why I think the liberal blogosphere is far more powerful than the right wing blogosphere (which is just one more piece of the monolithic right wing noise machine and that's really it).

Needless to say, I will continue to visit and post on DailyKos -- it's never been dependent on Markos anyway -- I consider him to be just another member of the community as far as opinionating, so none of this affects my resolve to stay engaged there.

[dwahzon]

1. Sheesh

I've been so busy today, I missed all the excitement.

I figured out that BTD was Armando a while ago but I didn't know he'd done another GBCW exit.

Good old metakos ... somewhere metajesus is crying.

[beachmom]

3. Between Ted Kennedy, the U.S. attorneys, and meta, today is

definitely NOT a day to post a diary (FYI to everyone).

[Noisy Democrat]

2. Wow. Break out the popcorn. Thanks for posting. n/t

[ProSense]

4. Frankly, it's too much hypocrisy.

It's not like Kos is a private forum, and they all have a hand in the slow response by Democrats. I go back to this comment (found on MyDD and linked to here):

If Stoller wants to blame someone for the timidity of the Democrats, perhaps he should consider our incredibly lame and ineffective anti-war "movement," which has proven utterly incapable of translating the majority of America's manifest frustration with this war into anything like effective pressure. They've totally failed to stake out a credible position to the left of the Democratic leadership, which would (a) probably be substantively correct, at least by my lights (b) more importantly, create room for maneuver so that Democrats could push stronger resolutions but still appear moderate.

From April last year until now, when the discussion about a deadline should have lit up the blogs, they were posturing just like the elected officials. All the talk about stabilizing Iraq and ensuring victory should have been put to rest in 2005, especially after the January election led to more violence and definitely after the transfer of authority in June did nothing to end Iraq's descent into chaos. In 2006, there were only two options: set a deadline or cut funding. Those are still the only options. Screaming out now just doesn't cut it. There has to be the what next---the U.S isn't going to leave Iraq and withdraw from the international community. If Congress cuts funding or sets a deadline, the next step is getting the troops out of there safely, and I don't know anyone who wants the exit to be chaotic.

To your point about power:

Also what I got from that radio program was something I suspected but didn't know for sure since I don't frequent RW blogs -- Republican politicians are NOT posting on RW blogs. They don't really engage with their base in that way, so to me that is another reason why I think the liberal blogosphere is far more powerful than the right wing blogosphere (which is just one more piece of the monolithic right wing noise machine and that's really it).

The left blogs definitely have more power in organizing the grassroots. Unfortunately, the RW blogs get a lot of attention from the media and they, the blogs, feed off each other. As a result, the wingnut message is creeping into media reports with increasing frequency.

[ProSense]

5. OT (but since this is about Iraq): Shrum apologizing for Edwards

Adviser Regrets Pushing Edwards on Iraq

[beachmom]

6. Holy toledo if it's true. What do you think it means?

Does it help him or hurt him?

[ProSense]

7. I don't know, but I wonder is this

contradicts his earlier statements? Didn't he say something about basing his decision on the intelligence? I'll have to check into it. The story is up on Yahoo.

[MBS]

12. all the self-serving revisionist history drives me nuts n/t

[Noisy Democrat]

8. I think it hurts him

I just wonder if Shrum said anything damaging about JK. *sigh* I wish these consultants would not blather afterwards.

[Mass]

9. So, Edwards was led to co-sponsor and vote for going to war because ...

one of his advisors made him do it and he was not able to resist? :shrug:

I have resisted posted that because I was not sure whether Shrum wanted to help or hurt, but, is it really the image that Edwards wants to give: of somebody who will fold to his advisers's ideas.

(I am actually happy Edwards did not say that himself, because I really would not have been able to support him if he was the nominee??? At this point, I still have the ability to think Shrum is doing a McAuliffe on him. If not, Shrum is really an idiot. Edwards is running for CiC, not for the nicest guy in the room. We have to be able to believe he is able to make a decision by himself).

[ray of light]

10. deleted

[Dr Ron]

11. And I thought Armando had improved

I found that Armando was Big Tent Democrat at another blog after he wrote a couple of things I actually liked. I had hoped that maybe he had learned a few lessons and was changing/maturing.

I don't know if it means anything that he is leaving Kos. I recall he previously said he was leaving Kos and the blogosphere after another scandal blew up on him. I guess that must meant he was changing the name he was writing under.

As for this dispute, it sounds like the same mentality as fighting over how someone voted on the IWR, as opposed to being concerned about their actual views on going to war.

[fedupinBushcountry]

13. I have to say one thing about MSOC

She was on the original Kerry blog, I can't remember exactly when she left but... she bought into everything Kos put out and joined the Kossacks. We tried to tell her way back then what Kos was and that he was no liberal but she joined his bandwagon. In the interview she is a bit of a hypocrite when she speaks about jumping on bandwagons. To bad she wouldn't listen to reason back then and we did come away thinking she was a bit looney.

I could care less about Markos, Armando etc., I only post there because of great diarist like you Beachmom and others here.

[beachmom]

14. Thanks, Fedup. I write diaries there for three reasons:

1. The traffic is very big -- lots of eyeballs, especially lurkers. And they want to know what John Kerry is up to.
2. There ARE good people who post there who are not us, and once in a while they'll post an amazing comment that makes all the other crap worth it.
3. Politicians like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry post there, and no doubt, congressional staffers, MSM outlets, and other influential people to take a peruse at dailykos.


As far as Markos is concerned, I view him as an entrepeneur who found a niche market early in the game, and has made a real success with it. His political views and tactics are all over the map, although once in a while he'll have a good post (like the Harry Reid "Fuck Democrats" week). Funny how MSOC is so mad at him, whereas I've found him LESS annoying as of late. I think he DOES read people's comments and take them into consideration. Call me crazy, but in a post where he attacked Hillary over the IWR, I and some others commented that this IWR pie fight was pointless, and what we should really be talking about is a good plan out of Iraq. Well, since then, he hasn't mentioned the IWR and the front page has been FULL of posts about Congress and various Iraq plans. So I prefer to stay engaged, but I can understand how the place can make someone go a bit loopy. I actually like MSOC in spite of everything -- I think Vietnam scarred her family very badly (her Dad was killed before she was born and her mother never recovered from the loss), and she has been very honest about suffering from depression. Markos is not a creature who shows much empathy for people, so their split was inevitable. I just think she should stay away from Fox News, but the decision is ultimately hers.