Santa Claus

[Midwest_Doc]

Santa Claus teaches children that their parents will lie to them. When a child learns the truth about Santa, his/her first thoughts are: "my parents have been lying to me." This has got to be harmful.

Any psychiatrists or psychologists care to respond?

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. Bear in mind that there is more truth to the story of Santa than there is

in the story of christ. St. Nicholas was a real person, and it has been suggested that he attended the Council of Nicea.

snip)
St. Nicholas of Myra


(Also called NICHOLAS OF BARI).

Bishop of Myra in Lycia; died 6 December, 345 or 352. Though he is one of the most popular saints in the Greek as well as the Latin Church, there is scarcely anything historically certain about him except that he was Bishop of Myra in the fourth century.

Some of the main points in his legend are as follows: He was born at Parara, a city of Lycia in Asia Minor; in his youth he made a pilgrimage to Egypt and Palestine; shortly after his return he became Bishop of Myra; cast into prison during the persecution of Diocletian, he was released after the accession of Constantine, and was present at the Council of Nicaea. In 1087 Italian merchants stole his body at Myra, bringing it to Bari in Italy.

The numerous miracles St. Nicholas is said to have wrought, both before and after his death, are outgrowths of a long tradition. There is reason to doubt his presence at Nicaea, since his name is not mentioned in any of the old lists of bishops that attended this council. His cult in the Greek Church is old and especially popular in Russia. As early as the sixth century Emperor Justinian I built a church in his honour at Constantinople, and his name occurs in the liturgy ascribed to St. Chrysostom. In Italy his cult seems to have begun with the translation of his relics to Bari, but in Germany it began already under Otto II, probably because his wife Theophano was a Grecian. Bishop Reginald of Eichstaedt (d. 991) is known to have written a metric, "Vita S. Nicholai." The course of centuries has not lessened his popularity. The following places honour him as patron: Greece, Russia, the Kingdom of Naples, Sicily, Lorraine, the Diocese of Liège; many cities in Italy, Germany, Austria, and Belgium; Campen in the Netherlands; Corfu in Greece; Freiburg in Switzerland; and Moscow in Russia. He is patron of mariners, merchants, bakers, travellers, children, etc. His representations in art are as various as his alleged miracles. In Germany, Switzerland, and the Netherlands, they have the custom of making him the secret purveyor of gifts to children on 6 December, the day on which the Church celebrates his feast; in the United States and some other countries St. Nicholas has become identified with Santa Claus who distributes gifts to children on Christmas eve. His relics are still preserved in the church of San Nicola in Bari; up to the present day an oily substance, known as Manna di S. Nicola, which is highly valued for its medicinal powers, is said to flow from them.


The real message to children is or should be simply the spirit of giving. That selfless giving is virtuous. I don' see that as harmful at all.

[trotsky]

2. That's why I never fed my kids the Santa Claus myth.

I don't think it sends the right message. It confuses reality and fantasy, and it teaches you that the people you trust the most (your caregivers) have no problems lying to you. Which I suppose is a lesson you learn eventually, that people lie, but there are better ways of learning that.

I'm no psychologist, but that just CAN'T be good.

[neebob]

10. Same here

I felt like a complete idiot, finding out from my friends in the fourth grade. I felt as if my parents had deliberately set me up for ridicule.

It was a lot worse than in the first grade, when I got into this argument with the girl across the table, who insisted it was greenish bluish and not greeny blue, as my mother had led me to believe, and I saw that the label on the crayon said something else entirely.

The Santa Claus thing was majorly traumatic.

[progressoid]

3. Speaking of which - where's fshrink?

[Book Lover]

4. Take a different tack

My child will learn that Santa is many stories people tell each other to celebrate the winter holidays. Father Christmas is not a direct equivalent to Santa, nor is Sinter Klaas.

[FiveGoodMen]

5. Funny thing is

my parents -- very decent, intelligent, scrupulous people ... but also Baptists -- never let me believe in Santa Claus because they were afraid that if they ever admitted that it was all a lie, I might begin to suspect that Jesus was made up as well.

Didn't work out the way they planned. I had to listen to my friends talk about such nonsense for years while I remained silent, wondering when they'd get a clue.

As it turned out, that was just practice for my current life: wondering when the rest will grow out of their childhood fantasies and face reality.

[enki23]

6. maybe it's a good lesson to learn

maybe it's best to teach our children, as soon as it's appropriate, their elders and/or superiors (actual and otherwise) will often do their damndest to deceive them. sometimes just to fuck with them. maybe it helps instill a healthy skepticism toward authority figures, before they develop too much trust in authority.

works for me. i think i just made up my mind about santa.

[funflower]

7. OH, man! What kind of fun is that? I suppose the Tooth Fairy doesn't

visit your house either...!

Seriously, I think there is less distinction between fantasy and reality in the minds of small children than in the minds of adults. I don't carefully explain that fairy tales are false, either. Does that make me a liar?

I think there is value in enjoying a little fairy tale now and then - and in eventually outgrowing it.

[ozone_man]

8. It never bothered me.

I vaguely remember sneaking downstairs and hiding behind the living room door when I was about six. I understood then and there that Santa was a myth, but an enjoyable one. I had no intention of expressing my disbelief in Santa with all of the presents that had arrived.

Disbelieving in God was not a discrete event like that, but by the time I was old enough to put the idea of God to the test of reason (~12), at least the personal God of Christianity, I realized that it made no sense, probably like this postcard.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. I Believe in Father Chrstmas

They said there'll be snow at Christmas
They said there'll be peace on earth
But instead it just kept on raining
A veil of tears for the virgin birth.

I remember one Christmas morning
A winter's light and the distant choir
And the peal of a bell and that Christmas tree smell
And eyes full of tinsel and fire.

They sold me a dream of Christmas
They sold me a silent night
They told me a fairy story
Till I believed in the Israelite.

And I believed in Father Christmas
I looked to the sky with excited eyes
Than I woke with a yawn in the first light of dawn
And I saw him through his disguise.

I wish you a hopeful Christmas
I wish you a brave new year
All anguish, pain, and sadness
Leave your heart and let your road be clear.

They said there'd be snow at Christmas
They said there'd be peace on earth.
Hallelujah, Noel, Be it heaven or hell,
The Christmas we get we deserve.

I think I more or less always looked on it as a game, in which my parents and I just pretended, while knowing it wasn't real. Maybe if it turned out it was a straight lie, it might cause problems, but since it's "covering up" your parents' generosity, it's not much different from someone pretending they're not doing anything for your birthday, only to be surprised with a party.