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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 07:06 PM
Original message
If anyone is still reading this forum...
I began to think, since the recent stuff with Clinton.

Now, I am not taking sides IN THIS scenario; because I ultimately am fighting for Gore to be the nominee, of course. Here's something that jumped out at my admittedly desperate brain this afternoon...

The Clinton statement about RFK. Someone on another forum was talking about it, and was saying that the comparison to the 1968 was appropriate because (!!!HELLO) "the nomination was resolved on the convention floor in August--more than five months after the primaries started--with Humphrey, who controlled the delegates but didn't run in a single primary, winning the nomination."


I wonder..if she 'slipped up' in more than one way.

Maybe she really is staying in the race all the way to the convention...for a different reason than we think?

Is it possible, considering the animosity that the Clintons and Gore have? I am probably reaching. But for either reason, (she's staying for her chance, or for someone else's); the end result could be the same.

Now, personally, I have made a choice between Clinton and Obama. But that's not the purpose of this forum, so I'm keeping my personal preference out of it. Please do not read any such preference into the above hypothesis, because you could very well come away with the wrong conclusion.

I want Gore, but if I can't have him, I have made a decision I am ok with.

Thanks for listening.
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm...

Are you saying that possibly she could be staying in up until the convention to create some chaos and let someone else walk away with the nomination (and all of us hope that the someone would be Gore)?

I think it is possible. I don't know how probable, but I think it could be. While there's no question that there's been animosity between the Clintons and the Gores, I haven't heard anything recently that would indicate that it's still a hot issue with them. When I saw Al speak here in Columbus a few weeks ago, he mentioned Bill Clinton a couple times and I would characterize his tone as warm.

I don't think Hillary would do this without having something to gain for herself. I've never questioned that a Gore/Clinton ticket wouldn't work. But, your post is making me rethink that. After all the animosity between Clinton and Obama in this campaign, she might be willing to take a second seat to Gore just to prevent Obama from winning.

Also, I remember reading something quite a long time ago. I think it was in Rolling Stone. It was a rather lengthy article about the '92 campaign, with a lot of behind the scenes detail about the bus trip that they all took together (I think they did the bus tour right after the convention if I remember right). There was lots of depiction of the fun the four of them had together on that trip. Lots of talk about jokes and laughter and high hopes. Just thinking about some of my own experiences, I think that when times are tough, I tend to remember the good times with people from my past and those good memories overshadow any intervening difficulties.

I'm just thinking that it could be possible that in the face of this campaign and all the bad blood between her and Obama, that the past problems between her and Gore pale in comparison and she might be warming up to him. As to his side of the equation, I tend to think that Gore is smart enough and pragmatic enough that his choice would be based on whether he thinks they could be an effective team more than on any kind of grudge or hurt feelings he might be harboring.

It's a long shot, but I'll take a Gore nomination any way I can get it. As I've said before, I don't care who the VP is, I just want Gore at the top of the ticket and in the White House for the next eight years.

Thanks, Lildreamer, for proposing this intriguing idea.

BTW, for anyone who didn't hear this, RFK Jr. is on the record with having no problem with the comment Clinton made.
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rodbailey Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hey, some of us die-hards are still reading here.
Intriuging thoughts Lildreamer. I'm still not sure I see Clinton and Gore coming together, but a lot of folks (the chatterers on TV) are certainly asking themselves the question - "What does Hillary want?" So, maybe what she wants is to not let Obama become President and whatever else happens is secondary. This kind of runs counter to other things we've heard (through folks at the Yahoo site and others - not that any of us have real high-level contacts) that it really is over and Obama is it. But, there was an article in our local paper today (and I'm sure other places) about how there may be challenges to any decision by the DNC committee meeting on May 31 to resolve the MI and FL issue. And, I think I heard last evening on the news that there has been a legal case filed relative to seating the FL delegation, so whatever gets decided on May 31 may not be the final answer.

While Obama is only, supposedly, 54 delegates away from securing the nomination (assuming the 2026 number is the accurate one) he will not get that many from the remaining pledged delegates in the last 23 primaries. And, if the "goal posts" are moved with a decision on MI and FL, he will still be a ways from locking up the nomination. Based on that, the only way to end the nomination process would be for Hillary to conceed and basically release her delegates to Obama, or for most of the approx. 200 still uncommitted super delegates to come out and endorse Obama. That might happen following the June 3 primaries; but if Hillary wins big in PR and the decision on May 31 goes somewhat in her favor, she will keep making the case that she has won a majority of the votes cast in primaries and that might continue to "freeze" some of the uncommitted supers in place on into June and perhaps beyond.

It has been a very strange primary season and the forthcoming possible scenarios still seem to leave the door open just a bit for Gore. However, unless there has been some kind of backroom deal between the Clintons and Gore, I'm not sure he would be keen to have Hillary be his stalking horse (in fact I really suspect he might be getting frustrated that she keeps going...and going...and going) and then jump in as she keeps things tied up until the Convention. Just in case, though, the algoresolution web site is still there, just waiting to be put to good use.
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. 23 primaries?
I thought it was just 3. If there are 23 more, anything could happen!

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rodbailey Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Andrea,
you know by now that I can't type, mis-spell, and all other kinds of crazy things. Who knows, maybe this will be like Groundhog Day and there really are 23 more primaries to go. Wouldn't that be fun?
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It might be fun
As I recall that movie, in time he got everything right. Maybe the same thing would happen with the voters!

And you know by now that I have to tease you when you make particularly funny typos!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm still checking in.
What are the chances, at this point, that Obama will not have enough delegates to lock up the nomination before the convention?

I held my nose and voted for Clinton in my primary to try to slow that process down, which really didn't matter, since he won my state handily.

As long as there is still a chance, I'm here. I dreaded reading the news after May 20th, thinking that Clinton would drop out and it would be over. It didn't happen, so I'm still on board.
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rodbailey Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I think it really does depend
on what the supers do after June 3. I just saw a news report that Pres. Carter is basically saying Clinton is going to have to drop out after the final primaries. He is obviously assuming the FL and MI thing gets settled in such a way that Obama will not lose his lead, and that the supers (or at least enough of them, himself included) will declare and that will put Obama over the top. Clinton, however, is still making her strong case that she is more electable and might have won the popular vote. I think her "more electable" argument falls apart a bit when she keeps citing that she won CA and NY. Any Dem. will win CA and NY in November (IMHO). She also won MA and NJ which will be in the Dem. column. The troublesome ones are PA, OH, FL, and maybe places like WV. If Obama can't pick up those, we are in serious trouble. On the other hand, in a contest with McCain, I'm not sure Clinton is guaranteed a win in places like FL or WV. She beat Obama there, but that's different than beating McCain in states like that.

Keep hanging on and keep your fingers crossed. But, the Gore scenario is getting fuzzier and fuzzier.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. very fuzzy.
losing all hope here. still checking in and reading, wishing and be honest, I don't think even Gore can save this mess.
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road2000 Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Still checking in.
I haven't posted much to this forum, but still check regularly.
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