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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:02 AM
Original message
Do people in general value peace?
After some rather interesting conversations in GD with people who were not mystical in their outlook, I began pondering this question.

Many, if not most, people at DU say they are for peace, but I do not know if they truly value it. Let me explain what I mean by this, and then, please, chime in with your opinions.

To value peace to me means to feel peace within yourself. It means that, once you have felt this inner peace, you cultivate it by whatever means works for you--meditation, walks in nature, listening to music, etc. It means that this inner peace is your refuge when things get a little crazy "out there".

I also think that, in order to have peace in the world, it must start with peace within.

I do get the impression that there are posters here who are enamored with the drama of living, who would rather have anger, anxiety, or sadness as their core underlying feeling. There is nothing wrong with this; that is their path. But would it then be ill mannered to wish such a person peace? Would they take it as an attack of some sort? What would be the best way to address such people so that they would understand that you are offering your goodwill?

What is your outlook on peace? Thanks for your responses!
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. one thing I got from David Hawkins
Is the idea that different emotions have different levels of consciousness. The lowest level of consciousness is shame. Above that is guilt, and above that are anger and apathy. There is a whole heirarchy of emotions. As people raise their level of consciousness, they go through the anger stage, and it feels good to them, after having lived in shame.

Then, of course you go through the positive emotions, and end with love, peace, etc.

But, the idea is that anger can feel good to people, after having lived with shame.

This can also apply to karma, and ancestral karma, for sure. After ancestors have lived through shame, then anger feels good. (think: race relations in this country--why don't people "get" this?)

Anyway, that is the best explanation that I have read why some people get kind of hooked on anger. Wayne Dyer uses a lot of Hawkins ideas, but doesn't exactly have the same take on it--
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I hadn't heard this
thanks. This may well explain a poster who doesn't "get" my message of peace elsewhere on the board.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. David Hawkins
When I say "one thing I got from David Hawkins" I meant that just about literally. That is, this is the ONE thing--only. In general, even though I love using muscle testing for various things, and he does too, I find his ideas quite peculiar and illogical, at times. The book "Power vs. Force" I actually wanted out of my house. Having said that, I sort of like provocative, edgy stuff that gets me a little upset. And that book got me more than a little upset. I would say, for example, that his viewpoint seems almost undemocratic. At the least it is not egalitarian --it reminds me of reading Plato, or something. He must have studied the classics from infancy and then just kind of lost a few screws in childhood.

But, the ONE concept that I really liked that I got from that book was the heirarchy of emotions--shame being the lowest, and the stages of emotion that people go through. I should have Xeroxed the chart from that book before I gave it away.

Anyway, I have made my thoughts on him known in the past, but I got a PM from a newer poster here about David Hawkins "warning" me about him.

There may be some fans of his here, and I am not particularly interested in starting a discussion about him. But I did want people to know that I think he is more than a little screwy.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I did some digging. Here:
From low to high, the levels of consciousness are: shame, guilt, apathy, grief, fear, desire, anger, pride, courage, neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, love, joy, peace, enlightenment.

Shame - Just a step above death. Youre probably contemplating suicide at this level. Either that or youre a serial killer. Think of this as self-directed hatred.

Guilt - A step above shame, but you still may be having thoughts of suicide. You think of yourself as a sinner, unable to forgive yourself for past transgressions.

Apathy - Feeling hopeless or victimized. The state of learned helplessness. Many homeless people are stuck here.

Grief - A state of perpetual sadness and loss. You might drop down here after losing a loved one. Depression. Still higher than apathy, since youre beginning to escape the numbness.

Fear - Seeing the world as dangerous and unsafe. Paranoia. Usually youll need help to rise above this level, or youll remain trapped for a long time, such as in an abusive relationship.

Desire - Not to be confused with setting and achieving goals, this is the level of addiction, craving, and lust for money, approval, power, fame, etc. Consumerism. Materialism. This is the level of smoking and drinking and doing drugs.

Anger - the level of frustration, often from not having your desires met at the lower level. This level can spur you to action at higher levels, or it can keep you stuck in hatred. In an abusive relationship, youll often see an anger person coupled with a fear person.

Pride - The first level where you start to feel good, but its a false feeling. Its dependent on external circumstances (money, prestige, etc), so its vulnerable. Pride can lead to nationalism, racism, and religious wars. Think Nazis. A state of irrational denial and defensiveness. Religious fundamentalism is also stuck at this level. You become so closely enmeshed in your beliefs that you see an attack on your beliefs as an attack on you.

Courage - The first level of true strength. Ive made a previous post about this level: Courage is the Gateway. This is where you start to see life as challenging and exciting instead of overwhelming. You begin to have an inkling of interest in personal growth, although at this level youll probably call it something else like skill-building, career advancement, education, etc. You start to see your future as an improvement upon your past, rather than a continuation of the same.

Neutrality - This level is epitomized by the phrase, live and let live. Its flexible, relaxed, and unattached. Whatever happens, you roll with the punches. You dont have anything to prove. You feel safe and get along well with other people. A lot of self-employed people are at this level. A very comfortable place. The level of complacency and laziness. Youre taking care of your needs, but you dont push yourself too hard.

Willingness - Now that youre basically safe and comfortable, you start using your energy more effectively. Just getting by isnt good enough anymore. You begin caring about doing a good job perhaps even your best. You think about time management and productivity and getting organized, things that werent so important to you at the level of neutrality. Think of this level as the development of willpower and self-discipline. These people are the troopers of society; they get things done well and dont complain much. If youre in school, then youre a really good student; you take your studies seriously and put in the time to do a good job. This is the point where your consciousness becomes more organized and disciplined.

Acceptance - Now a powerful shift happens, and you awaken to the possibilities of living proactively. At the level of willingness youve become competent, and now you want to put your abilities to good use. This is the level of setting and achieving goals. I dont like the label acceptance that Hawkins uses here, but it basically means that you begin accepting responsibility for your role in the world. If something isnt right about your life (your career, your health, your relationship), you define your desired outcome and change it. You start to see the big picture of your life more clearly. This level drives many people to switch careers, start a new business, or change their diets.

Reason - At this level you transcend the emotional aspects of the lower levels and begin to think clearly and rationally. Hawkins defines this as the level of medicine and science. The way I see it, when you reach this level, you become capable of using your reasoning abilities to their fullest extent. You now have the discipline and the proactivity to fully exploit your natural abilities. Youve reached the point where you say, Wow. I can do all this stuff, and I know I must put it to good use. So whats the best use of my talents? You take a look around the world and start making meaningful contributions. At the very high end, this is the level of Einstein and Freud. Its probably obvious that most people never reach this level in their entire lives.

Love - I dont like Hawkins label love here because this isnt the emotion of love. Its unconditional love, a permanent understanding of your connectedness with all that exists. Think compassion. At the level of reason, you live in service to your head. But that eventually becomes a dead end where you fall into the trap of over-intellectualizing. You see that you need a bigger context than just thinking for its own sake. At the level of love, you now place your head and all your other talents and abilities in service to your heart (not your emotions, but your greater sense of right and wrong your conscience). I see this as the level of awakening to your true purpose. Your motives at this level are pure and uncorrupted by the desires of the ego. This is the level of lifetime service to humanity. Think Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Dr. Albert Schweitzer. At this level you also begin to be guided by a force greater than yourself. Its a feeling of letting go. Your intuition becomes extremely strong. Hawkins claims this level is reached only by 1 in 250 people during their entire lifetimes.

Joy - A state of pervasive, unshakable happiness. Eckhart Tolle describes this state in The Power of Now. The level of saints and advanced spiritual teachers. Just being around people at this level makes you feel incredible. At this level life is fully guided by synchronicity and intuition. Theres no more need to set goals and make detailed plans the expansion of your consciousness allows you to operate at a much higher level. A near-death experience can temporarily bump you to this level.

Peace - Total transcendence. Hawkins claims this level is reached only by one person in 10 million.

Enlightenment - The highest level of human consciousness, where humanity blends with divinity. Extremely rare. The level of Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus. Even just thinking about people at this level can raise your consciousness.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's a cool post lildreamer. Thanks for doing the digging for us.
All I have to add is this. . .

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. thanks SO much
Yes, and thank David Hawkins for this one idea that made lots of sense to me. Obviously we can experience all of these emotions, but there is generally a predominant one where a person *is*. Moving to a higher level emotional state--even from desire to anger, feels good.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Did anyone notice the similarity to the Secret's chart of feelings?
here's the pic from the movie (PDF):

Joyful Appreciation

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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I went to see the movie Zeitgeist tonight, and it had the following quotation in it...
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

-Sri Chimnoy Ghose

It's not exactly relevant to your OP, but I really liked it and thought of this thread when I saw it.

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes, that is true
and one gives up one's power, one becomes all powerful, as described in this Sufi poem:

Go sweep out the chambers of your heart
Make it ready to be the Dwelling of the Beloved
When you depart, Love will enter
In you, void of yourself,
God will display His Beauties.
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think that people in general value peace
I think that many people need to be stirred up, and to stir others up, to feel that they're alive. As far as parts of DU are concerned, I often log in with a chuckle,wondering what the "outrage du jour" will be. Other times I have to leave it due to all the negativity, especially the doom and gloom regarding the economy. There are some who seem to be dancing with glee that things are going poorly.

Another thought: I've always been somewhat introverted and felt manipulated by the pot stirrers, to the point where I've always said "I want to be left alone!" I've since changed that to "I want peace and joy in my life," as I truly do not want to be left "alone."
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I've decided you are right
After yesterday's extremely hate-filled thread in GD about Muslims, I have to agree. Having read through the posts, I could tell that some were projecting, some playing the victim card, but others merely pot-stirring to keep everyone riled up. It's hard at times to know when you are being manipulated by them and when a reply might bring enlightenment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wow, this whole thread is really interesting.
I've bookmarked to come back to later today.

I don't think most of the posters on DU are very evolved. There is so much hate and anger here. I read here for information, since you don't get this stuff in the news. I love the research and viewpoints, and I have learned a lot over the last 3+ years. People here are really intelligent and knowledgeable!

But I find myself getting grumpy and out of sorts when I read too much. I have to sever myself from this place on a regular basis, or come here or the Energy forum, to regain my sanity. The negativity has a bad effect on me. I'm too sensitive to just slough it off.

I absolutely agree with you that peace begins within. If everyone did their inner work, the world would be a more peaceful place. Instead, we project onto others, act passive aggressively (passively aggressive?!), make others scapegoats, and so on. If we could learn to deal with ourselves, we'd all be happier.

Then again, like a friend of mine said, we have karma to work out, so maybe mine is not a realistic viewpoint. We also are creating new karma, so it goes around and around.

I also believe that everything that is happening is supposed to be happening for the simple reason that it IS happening. So I try to sit back and watch the show, not feeling powerless to change it, just believing that the universe is working perfectly. That is not a very popular viewpoint in GD or GDP, which affirms how I feel about how those folks are not very evolved spiritually. It also keeps me very quiet and reading.

I love the hierarchy of emotions. I will have to study it.

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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. might enjoy this:
This is my second favorite spiritaul read of all time. I don't know if it will resonate with you as it did me, but I absolutely love it.
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PinkTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think Peace has much of a chance.
Peace is stasis. Nature itself is not into stasis, so I think it stands to reason that Peace, or Letting it Be, etc., is not going to happen ever.
We like progress. We want to mobilize. That ain't Peace.
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