Astrology and the Mississippi Primary

[ccpup]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and -- against all accepted knowledge of demographics and Polls and what's expected and anticipated -- predict the winner of the Mississippi Primary on Tuesday.

Hillary Clinton.

Why? I believe it's in the stars, but you can disagree with me if you like and I could be wrong in the end. But at least let me explain.

The day of the Primary and the day after -- I often look to the day after, usually the morning after, to get a sense of how the candidate feels and what, if any, fallout or good Press they may be experiencing -- Barack Obama has the Tr Sun in opposition to his Mars. Now, at first glance, I saw a burst of energy and an electrified sense of achievement. But then I reminded myself that I was thinking of Tr Mars opposed the Sun NOT, as is the case here, Tr Sun opposed Mars.

So, I got in touch with one my astrology mentors and after discussing it (she never tells me outright what something is, but instead lets me flounder my way through the energy of the planets as well as the aspects involved before helping me find my Eureka! moment), came to the conclusion that it would be the exact opposite!

Sun opposite one's Mars is crisis. Confrontation. And, if one's ego is in the way or if one is expecting or assuming a certain result from something, a strong sense of anger and frustration. Now, this transit happens the day AFTER the Mississippi Primary for Barack. But he does have the continued passage of Tr Jupiter sextile his Ascendant and that aspect will be exact this day as well, but that Tr Sun does indeed meet in a head-to-head battle with his Mars, so I'm not sure which aspect will "win".

But since we're talking about Mars - Sun energies, let's take a look at Hillary's chart for the Day After.

Ah, Tr Mars meets her Sun by trine the day after the Primary as Tr Saturn snaps into a trine with her SP Sun. The Mars trine Sun aspect indicates vigor, enthusiasm, making a favorable impression with those in Power (in my mind, the Voters in this case, or the Media who shapes the Story). It also notes a time of unusually high self-confidence, a strong willingness to work hard and is considered a favorable time to initiate all kinds of activity. This Mars - Sun contact for Hillary doesn't carry the same potentially confrontational, angry energy one finds with Tr Sun opposite Barack's Mars (still receiving that quincunx from Tr Neptune, by the way).

So, what's the Tr Sun doing in HER chart the Day After? Seems only fair to take a look.

He's meeting her Moon by conjunction giving her, in effect, a Personal New Moon. In fact, it's something Barack experienced the night of the Wisconsin/Washington/Hawaii Primary setting up the expectations for him to knock Hillary out in the next set of Primaries, March 4th.

So, it's Hillary's turn to experience a Personal New Moon and it happens the day after a Primary she's widely expected to lose. Hmmmm ...

Those familiar with the New Moon Threads know that New Moons are a great time for beginnings, for wishing, for putting fresh, clear energy behind one's efforts to create what you want in your life.

Then I happen to notice Tr Venus entering Pisces two days after the Primary. Hillary's Moon is in Pisces, so I wonder if it'll have any effect. Venus transits, by nature, are rarely disagreeable. The "hard aspects" are usually Venus' way of seeking an outlet for her beautiful, gorgeous energy and in no way a battle. Taking a look at her travels through the respective charts, though, sheds some more light post-Primary.

She first meets Barack's Jupiter by inconjunct, maybe not quite finding balance with his more Jupiter-like optimism. Not a battle, of course, but just not as supportive as she could be. But she also squares his Moon indicating, with the energy involved, a more amorous mood from Barack. So, I'll just leave that one alone. (ahem) She then goes on to quincunx his Mercury bringing, perhaps, a slight hiccup with his message. Being Venus, though, I expect the hiccup to be swallowed and not noticed by too many people.

For Hillary, though, not only does Venus enter the domain of her Moon, it also will square her Jupiter -- allowing her a supportive outlet for the energy she has for continued expansion and optimism -- and then trine her Sun before opposing her MC. Remember, an opposition from Venus is not like an opposition from another planet like Mars, Saturn or even Tr Sun. Happening on March 16th, she may decide to take a bit of a break from her grueling pace (indicated by her career-oriented MC) -- with the next contest not being until late-April -- and enjoy some time with her family. It's also a good time for one to smooth over recent difficulties and reach an understanding with those close to you.

But Venus is such a quick little mover. One needs to look at the rest of the chart to get a sense of how her energies might manifest in Real Life.

With Barack's Ascendant being blessed by that sextile from Jupiter, he may be feeling pretty good regardless of what happens in Mississippi. And with the aspect beginning the day after the Wyoming Primary -- um, tomorrow --, I assume he'll win that, though maybe not by the margins first expected. With the sextile from Jupiter, I also anticipate the crowds in Mississippi to be massive and extremely supportive.

But he still has that Tr Saturn inching closer to his Moon all the while trine Hillary's SP Sun -- which receives an electrifying opposition from Tr Mars after he leaves the trine to her Natal Sun -- while still in opposition (right now) to his SP Chiron. Old hurts being revisited by the Task Master himself. And with the backdrop of Neptune quincunx his Mars?

Perhaps Barack has a fear of being put on-the-spot (humanitarian, group-oriented Aquarius South Node -- his comfort zone -- with a love-the-spotlight Leo North Node -- the scary path he has to walk to bring balance -- conjunct the ruler of that Aquarius South Node, Uranus -- the Grand daddy of Sudden Reversal of Fortune) and bristles when the Press digs too deep, becomes too insistent or cuts too close to the bone with it's questions?

So, in brief, the day after the Primary we have Barack being hit by a one day transit of the Sun to his Mars indicating confrontation, anger and frustration with Neptune still quincunx his Mars but Jupiter still sextile his Ascendant.

Meanwhile Hillary enjoys a Personal New Moon with Mars suddenly trine her Sun and Saturn trine her SP Sun.

I could be embarrassingly wrong, but the aspects indicate a Hillary win on Tuesday in Mississippi.

[lavenderdiva]

1. thanks for all your posts, ccpup-

I am enjoying reading all of them, and appreciate the time you are taking with your analyses. Thank you for sharing them with us! :hi:

[ccpup]

2. thank you

and I love your Anais Nin quote. Fantastic!

[Celebration]

3. I have to admit

I will be VERY impressed with your astrological skills if you are right about this. Especially after this--

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1078590

"How can Iowa be ranked with Mississippi? That’s not what I see. That’s not the quality. That’s not the communitarianism; that’s not the openness I see in Iowa,"

As someone who lives a stone's throw from Mississippi, I promise you that this did not go over well there at all. The stars are more powerful than I thought if she succeeds there. Of course, there are a ton of Limbaugh fans in Mississippi, so you never know when fanatacism will overcome state pride. I can guarantee that most of the votes that she does get there will be Limbaugh fans. We'll just see how much the stars influence them to vote.

[ccpup]

4. I freely admit I could be wrong with this --

and did so in my OP, I think. But it was her lovely New Moon as well as that confrontational Tr Sun opposite his Mars that made me think she might pull this out.

Another way to look at it is that she may lose, but by a surprisingly, shockingly small margin (a point or two) thereby raising questions about the reliability of Barack's Base and about his strength in Southern States. I don't know.

I DO know that she spends the next day incredibly upbeat feeling on top of the World with Mars trine her Sun and Saturn trine her SP Sun and a New Moon while he becomes even more defensive and/or confrontational with that Tr Sun opposite his Mars.

Astrology can manifest in many different ways and I'm keenly aware of that when I go out on a limb to make predictions.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ccpup]

6. call it what you like

I could care less. If I wanted to argue I'd be over in GD:P I still think she may eke out a win, but you can call it whatever you like.

[Why Syzygy]

8. You really should be posting these in GDP

instead of here. I don't share the feeling of support you've gotten from other group members.

If you are going to post them here, then you'll get what you get.

[ccpup]

12. I respect that you don't support what I do here

So perhaps reading and responding to those Posts you do enjoy or can at least contribute to might make more sense?

As this OP is more astrology-based than anything, I doubt many in GDP would understand what I'm talking about, although I respect your suggestion. Furthermore, this forum with it's clear astrological bent is the perfect place for what I write and allows those who have an interest in seeing how astrology may or may not play out in one's life an opportunity to see astrology in action, as it were. It's one thing to talk about aspects from Planet X to one's chart, but it's quite another to see it take place in a Candidate's chart with the Press that would inevitably follow.

I don't mind criticism, by the way, and am more than welcoming of other's different viewpoints, especially if they bring astrology to the table and can discuss our differences with the charts as a backdrop. What I do mind is someone showing up spoiling for a fight without anything to offer the Thread other than their perhaps misplaced anger. More common to see in GDP than here.

I'll endeavor to keep my Posts astrologically based from here on in, but invite you to remain involved. Perhaps you'll learn something new and surprising from the astrology offered as well as the other Poster's comments.

[Why Syzygy]

13. Since I believe it is your threads which are

misplaced, my anger is in exactly the right place.

If stating opposing views is "spoiling for a fight", then you can count me in.

I can have no respect for the ASTROLOGY you present because it is so obviously biased and tainted towards one party. It's like reading your personal rationalizations. Perhaps you are ignoring reality and instead studying the heavens for some sign that you will get what you want? Is that an appropriate use of astrology in your opinion?

You now have about SEVEN open threads on this topic. That is spamming the group.
I invite you to just start a giant ASTROLOGY FOR HILLARY thread and stop starting new threads for every aha you think you have.

[Why Syzygy]

7. The main problem with Mississippi

is the poverty. It has nothing to do with gender. But that's the spin she puts on everything.
A sexism charge is her form of sexism. Reverse sexism of a sort.
It does nothing to advance the interests of women, not to mention ignoring the lived daily reality of POVERTY.

[Celebration]

9. I don't even live there

And it pisses me off completely when someone denigrates Mississippi. A whole lot of wonderful people live there, and I get a little tired of the cultural snobbery of people comparing the whole state in an unfavorable light to another state. But then I don't think she is running on being a uniter.

[Why Syzygy]

10. I did live there.

It is a beautiful state. The people are beautiful too. They took a big hit from that large company that closed there, just south of Memphis... was it 3M? Any lack of progress they have is due to poverty and not sexism, was my point. I'm not denigrating them at all.

We had to drive about 30 miles to the job site while we were there. There was a housing shortage at that time. The drive was gorgeous, but on two lane roads. If someone up ahead was making a left turn, all the drivers behind him also put on their blinkers so everyone knew what was going on! It was amazing.

Do you know if Gulfport ever recovered from Katrina?

[Celebration]

11. well, Hillary denigrated them and it totally is hurting her there

Maybe the stars and Limbaugh votes will help her there and maybe they won't.

Basically what she said to Iowa was something like, "Iowa, I thought you were better than Mississippi, and would be more progressive than THAT STATE on women's rights." That is sure how it came off around these parts.

Well that crazy old MCI (or was it renamed by then?) crook was in Jackson, Mississippi. That was like Enron Part 2 and caused a lot of job loss there.

Gulfport is still struggling, I think. I haven't been there since Katrina.

In some ways I don't feel southern at all, but mainly I don't feel regionalist, if that is a word. Anyway, when someone attacks someplace around here, like Hillary did with Mississippi in Iowa, it can really fuel my defense of my turf. And, Mississippi is close enough that it feels like my turf.

You are completely right about Mississippi--it is filled with poverty and poor people are BEAUTIFUL.

[Why Syzygy]

14. Yeah.. I think it was MCI .

but that was in 1994, during Clinton's presidency. So it was really Enron one then? I know it was a scandal .. didn't it have something to do with the Clintons? Now I'm going to have to go look that up.

[Celebration]

15. No maybe I am getting confused

Enron was later than that. I have to admit MCI is a blur to me, but it did hurt Jackson.

[mother earth]

16. Why shouldn't ccpup be posting these astrological takes in any

other place? That doesn't make sense. Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message he brings.

Votes, it seems your problem is with the interpretations not meeting your standards due to your own prejudices. Clearly, you are not liking that the readings seem to indicate a HRC win. I have to say I was not very appreciative of ccpup in the beginning, for the very same reason, but have since changed my views 100-fold. I'm an Edwardian and I didn't much like that his astro. influences were indicating trouble, but like it or not, that's what the chart said & ccpup was right.

You may not like what ccpup's interpretations are, but why not offer up your take if you also read astro. charts? Don't make those of us who are enjoying these threads suffer because you want the outcome to be different. It is what it is, or just say why your interpretation is different. :shrug:

Frankly, I'm sometimes surprised there aren't MORE astrological threads, afterall, that's why this board exists. I applaud any and all efforts to teach those of us here who want to learn more about this fascinating subject. Constructive criticism is different, so if you've got some please share.

(As an aside, I wonder how any of the supporters are going to feel after the bashing is over, if there is indeed a unity ticket. Can't this party ever unite and isn't that Obama's byline?)

[Celebration]

17. I actually get a sort of kick out of these threads

And face it, they were pretty accurate on Ohio and Texas. So kudos for that.

But, you gotta admit they are partisan-- pro-Hillary. So, she can't expect to get a pass, pretending that no "attacking" should go on in a partisan thread. Not that I felt that I attacked, but I just wasn't my usual ASAH self. I agree with Votes that she has to expect a little conflict. But I really do mean it that if Hillary wins Mississippi I will be doubly impressed with the astrology skills.

It would probably be more accurate to put them under an "Astrologers for Hillary" thread. Anyway, I am sort of glad for this whole bru haha, because it caused me to put protection around Obama's campaign.

Whatever the stars "say", I am uncomfortable with allowing them to choose our nominee, and a campaign with a strong aura can deflect the influence.

As for a "unity" ticket, it may come about. If Clinton wins the primary, it is the only way she will win IMHO, after showing her colors in the last couple of weeks. However, it will make me highly suspicious that warrantless wiretapping has led to the "unity"........ I can't really see Obama being her Veep candidate sans some sort of blackmail. I could be wrong.

[Bluestar]

18. You're saying that crossover Limbaugh votes are the only

votes for Hillary in Mississippi and that "they" (Republicans) shouldn't be allowed to choose our candidate? That's exactly how I feel, but I think that Obama so far has benefited the most from Republicans voting in our primaries and caucuses in many states. That's why he hasn't won the big blue states because the numbers in big blue states are so large, the Republican crossovers can't influence the vote.

I'm sorry to violate the perceived purity of ASAH with a political opinion, but I am tired of letting statements like this get a pass without an opposing viewpoint.

[Celebration]

21. Limbaugh votes and other Republicans

I know a ton of Republicans that voted for Obama in the primary, and guess what? If he is the nominee, they are going to also vote for him in the general election. They are as sick of the neocons as we are. I consider those crossover votes legitimate.

The Limbaugh votes are supposedly to disrupt the Democratic primary. I consider that illegitimate. Now, I think there is a larger agenda here. Limbaugh knows that 1. Hillary will be easier to beat in the general election, by far, and 2. Obama is not as tied into the super rich powerful elite in this country, and he is a big question mark. If they have to have Democrat they feel more comfortable with the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton succession, though they think it unlikely that she win. They are afraid of him.

If you want to know more about why they are afraid of Obama, follow the money, follow the money, oh, and can I just say it one more time LOUD AND CLEAR

Follow the Money

and see this post--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4970563&mesg_id=4970563

I promise you I will never begin a partisan post in ASAH, but I sure am not going to give anyone a pass if they choose to start one.

[Bluestar]

24. You have your opinion, I have mine

I don't understand why you're being so antagonistic. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have a real progressive in the race now, so we must make a choice as to who we believe can beat the Republicans in November.

The fact that Obama appeals to so many Republicans and that he uses "amen" and scripture in his speeches scares me a lot. I'm tired of the loud noise here on DU insisting that he is some kind of second coming or saint and that those who support Hillary are somehow evil. It just isn't true, and I think we will learn that as we go forward.

[Bluestar]

25. Love your astrology threads, CCPup, keep up the good work

Despite all the naysayers here, please don't get discouraged.

[Celebration]

27. Well, I think you are projecting re: the amen stuff

Look, I was raised in Texas, and I am now a southerner, and I understand the black preachers. I know their style. I know them through and through. I know them completely. I understand that you don't. I understand that it is foreign to your particular culture. And I even understand the hesitancy. And, I do understand why people could be put off by this.

Obama is a little green. He is naive, in a sense. He is idealistic, in a time when that is not in fashion. That naivite turns people off. It certainly is not my style. No, he is not particularly progressive. I do believe that he might grow with the job. He is not exactly what we need, but he is by far the closest thing available.

Hillary has grown too, but she has grown the wrong way. She completely bombed out in the first two years of the Clinton administration with the health care initiative, so she changed her mojo. How did she change it? She abandoned her principles. She is dealing. I realize people in politics have to do that to a certain degree. But she has totally lost it. It is a power game now. Why does she not support the Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act? Why is the MSM not reporting on that? Why does nobody ask her that question?

Why do you think she won't release her tax returns? Tell me that. Now, be logical in your response. Try to think of some benign reason for that.

I do not AT ALL think Hillary supporters are evil. However, I do think they are deluded, and definitely wrong.

We are going to face tremendous economic pressures in the years to come. Right now our capital markets are in complete shambles, oil prices are skyrocketing, and there is nobody in charge. It isn't that we need a JFK type person, we will need an FDR. Have you heard an FDR speak, on the History Channel perhaps? Back then it was a chicken in every pot. That is how bad off things were. A chicken in every pot, and yes, on their radios people were tuning in and saying YES maybe I can have a chicken in my pot on Sunday. YES WE CAN.

That is the possibility that we are facing, thanks to the neocons and their runaway spending and awful fiscal irresponsibility. When there was a semblance of a future Hillary might have been okay, despite her favors to the tax haven people. Now we need an FDR type character, someone that people can rally around--an FDR type person that inspires people. Hillary is about as inspirational as a used rubber tire. And she ain't no progressive either. It is the wrong time for her. She will divide the country. I predict if she is elected everyone will dump on her for our economic woes, even though this would be unfair. It would be a disaster.

Obama isn't progressive, he is not perfect, he is naive, and he is my choice at this point.

And, as long as anyone starts a partison post in this group, I am going to express my heartfelt opinion.

[Bluestar]

28. OK, so like I said you have your opinion

But what is my "culture"?? I was raised in an evangelical church in the Midwest, some people described as the "holy roller" church. There I found out early on that most of the leaders of evangelical churches are hypocrites. Because I rejected that religion early in my life, I have a strong aversion to politicking in the church and I will NEVER support someone who uses that preacher-cadence, amen BS in a political speech. Hearing the cadence in Barack's voice is like fingernails on a blackboard to me. I thought to myself one day, what if he actually does become president and I have to listen to him on the news everyday with that sing-song nasal preaching? I can't stand the thought of it.

Regarding the issues, I have been following this election very closely. I think the time for an FDR has passed. It's going to take a lot of guts to clean up the mess Bush has left. I think Obama is weak and will be overwhelmed by the responsibilities of the office of president and I think Hillary is strong. I also think that Obama is far more corrupt than Hillary. These are only my opinions and I have no desire to try and influence yours. I wish you well.

[Celebration]

29. I pray that you are right re: need for FDR, but suspect you are not

If Hillary would release her tax returns, my fears might be allayed. Instead, she obfuscates, denies, and delays.

Cadence doesn't play into my decision.

[Celebration]

30. Try reading the Economy Forum

About our banking system being tens of billions of dollars in the red, it getting worse by the DAY, and having to borrow billions of $ from the Fed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x33786

Then tell me we won't need an FDR.

[Coyote_Bandit]

34. I am offended

by the use of spiritual and biblical allusions by candidates and elected officials regardless of their political ideology or party affiliation.

That is a conclusion based on many years of "Chrisitan" education - some of which was under folks who are active leaders in the religious right. I am well acquainted with Christian practice in many varied forms - and in the use of faith to manipulate political behavior. Religious speech is designed to motivate, relate to and create and affiliation with religious people.

Faith should not be a tool to manipulate and motivate behavior. That is true whether some tv evangelist is seeking financial contributions or a politican is looking for a vote. Appropriate boundaries should be respected.

[Celebration]

37. thankfully neither candidate is doing that

Obama just learned his cadence from attending church. I sure don't fault him for that.

Have you seen this?

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[Coyote_Bandit]

38. I disagree

Religious speech used when seeking to motivate behavior - whether that is a financial contribution or a vote - is designed to appeal to religious people.

The issue isn't the cadence (i.e. rhythm) of the speech. It's the content. And let's be clear. We are talking about stump speeches which are largely scripted and designed to maximize appeal to voters. The widespread use of religious allusion, speech and content in political campaigns is neither accidental or spontaneous. There's a reason why even the most corrupt politicians are people of faith - at least while they are running for office.

We are most inclined to follow people who are like us. We tend to agree with people we know and like. We like people who are physically attractive, who are similar to ourselves, who extend compliments, and who are associated with positive experiences. Those are long-standing well documented human behavioral traits and you can study them in any class on persuasion or marketing or consumer behavior. They play out in unfair and ugly ways every day.

A candidate is not required to attribute God's favor regarding positions on issues in order to use faith to manipulate folks. Referencing or quoting any sacred text or using religious speech (e.g., religious terms such as amen or religious imagery) creates a sense of liking and similarity among religious people who hear that speech. It can be a reminder of positive faith experiences. Undoubtedly it is complimentary in its recognition and attempted affiliation. It is an issue of content not cadence.

You, obviously, do not have to share my conclusions - or my offense. But you cannot dismiss offensive religious content by claiming it is simply a vocal technique. I'm not buying that.

And, yeah, it is an equal opportunity offense with multiple offenders.

[Celebration]

39. And I take offense on manipulation by FEAR

Do you think anyone is using THAT in this Democratic primary?

[Coyote_Bandit]

41. I think that

anything that can be used to manipulate and influence votes is in fact being used during this election. There are no innocent parties (or candidates). Many supporters of various candidates are completely unaware of the ways in which their loyalties have been influenced. Some are simply ignorant (or unobservant) of the many techniques of emotional, social and subliminal persuasion that are being utilized. Others have willingly substituted the judgment of another for their own.

Regardless of the form it takes, any unfair (i.e., disproportionate, uneven, deceptive, or unjust) technique to influence and persuade constitutes manipulation. Part of what makes these persuasive techniques so unfair is that they are disrespectful and fail to recognize appropriate boundaries. One form is no better or worse than another. Obviously, making an appeal based on a suspect class (e.g., age, gender, race, nationality, etc.) is unfair. So to is an appeal to emotion, the use of power to coerce, the use of subliminal messages and outright deception. An appeal using faith like an appeal to fear is based in emotion rather than reason. Both are manipulative.

I don't have a dog in this fight. Could care less who gets the nomination. I could have supported Gore or Edwards or Kuchinich. But I don't like any of the remaining candidates. None represent my interests, desires or priorities. They all suck.

Still, as a matter of self-respect I will point out if someone holds forth a double standard in judging candidates or fails to respect appropriate boundaries.

[Why Syzygy]

42. At this point, I'm in the thing from a purely

defensive position. It is not so much that I have been influenced FOR as I have been influenced AGAINST.
True, it is still my perception. Only a certain percentage of the population is highly susceptible to mindless manipulation. People who are more informed, and accept the challenge to amass facts and opinions from a variety of sources, are less likely to fall for mind tricks. People are becoming more sophisticated. But the mind control racket has been around for a very long time. You know they even have TARGET audiences. They have us figured out! :a little sarcasm:

The only way to have a war is for it to be about "them". "They" did something wrong and now "We" are gonna take care of it. Who is "them"? It can be ANYONE. You cannot get to war without an enemy them. Whatever my market share is, we are interested in avoiding MORE WARS. Of course there is no easy exit plan in Iraq. But someone who is dedicated to avoiding war in the first place will be more likely to find a way to exit. Someone committed to war as a solution and a "them" as the problem, is not going to be as likely to.
Many in this market share have determined that Obama fits better than the alternative.

Whatever market share I'm in, is a group that has decided that Hillary Clinton poses a grave threat to our country. The reasons are multiple and varied. This group overlaps all politico-cultural-gender-religious definition lines. When you have a Mike Huckabee in the finals, with a decent shot at VP, Obama saying a few Amens here and there gets a pass. I wish he wouldn't. But at least he isn't trying to re-write the constitution according to the Baptist Standard! Perspective People!

Bottom line. I care more about keeping the nut cases away from the Capitol than I am motivated by any inspirational feelings to any message.

[Celebration]

44. the "Amen" thing

What people here need to realize is that he was virtually forced into wearing his religion on his sleeve. There have been repeated attempts to depict him as a Muslim by the right wingers. He can't exactly go around saying "I'm not a Muslim" because that would make it look like he thought there was something wrong with being a Muslim. But, in fact, a Muslim could never win an election. So, what he is left with is just one choice--throw out a couple of Amens to let everyone know he is a Christian.

I am not sure why people here don't see that he was painted into a box with this. Sure he could have ignored the issue-- but we have learned that people who ignore attacks really, really get creamed at the polls.

These two candidates are just not the same, not with war issues, and not with economic issues, eg

Clinton voted for the new bankruptcy bill.
Obama voted against it.

It's a rather long list. Not to mention that Obama has not attended a Bilderberg meeting,.

[PinkTiger]

51. You know, we have all tried to stay above the fray in here, but you are now name-calling.

If I had called Obama a nut case, you would be highly offended. But you think you can come in here and spread this crap, and get away with it. You are pissing me off now. My suggestion is that you stick to the astrological or intuitive discussion, or leave these threads alone. You are now violating the true purpose of these threads.

[Celebration]

43. mainly, the real issues aren't being talked about by the MSM

So, instead of talking about the sixty billion dollars in tax revenues we are losing to tax havens, the scandals in Europe because of the tax havens, we are diverted into talking about non existent phone calls about NAFTA to right wing Canadian officals, who leak erroneous memos.

And, there is only ONE candidate who benfits from these dirty tricks.

And, if you want to know why sixty billion dollars in tax revenues is being lost, you won't find out from our media, because the owners of the MSM are the same ones that are benefiting from the tax havens.

If you think the two remaining candidates are the same, you are wrong.

One supports stopping tax haven abuse, and one doesn't.

One has released tax returns and one hasn't.

And the last two sentences are related to each other. These candidates are not the same. Let's see the tax returns. If you could see them, you would realize it. How can people support Hillary while she is throwing sand in their faces?

I never said Obama was perfect. God knows he isn't. But the tax returns, the tax haven issue, and the appeal to fear by Clinton are concrete ways that these candidates differ. If Obama talks like a black preacher and says Amen I could just care less.

[Lucinda]

19. Thank you! Your work is much appreciated.

:hi: BTW - did you look at Monday?

[ccpup]

22. what's happening Monday? n/t

[Lucinda]

23. Joe Trippi said something on CNN that made me wonder what the news day might be like Monday

If I remember correctly, it was something about there being more comments from Power (even though she's gone now) that would likely be coming out. I was curious about what their charts looked like on Monday because of that...

Editing to add transcript link:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/07/se.01.html

ROBERTS: ... to the Democratic side of things because I want to get Joe a chance to answer this. Let's say that you're in charge of Barack Obama's campaign as opposed to being an adviser to John Edwards. Samantha Power goes out there and says what she said, what are you doing back there at campaign headquarters?

TRIPPI: I think he has to go out and --

ROBERTS: No. But give us a look inside. Are you throwing things?

TRIPPI: Oh, yes. Well, these things happen all the time in a campaign. It's very rare for a campaign to go without one of them happening, but you don't want it to happen right now.

BORGER: Right.

TRIPPI: Right when you're really trying to turn the momentum. So, yes, you're pulling your hair out at that point. I mean, it wasn't -- it's not good timing. But I mean, I think they had to be a little bit tougher about getting out in front of it instead of sort of --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: And you were saying that maybe one more out there?

TRIPPI: Yes, I think there is another -- I think there's a couple more. I think she's evidently making these kinds of statements, and there's tape of it or something that's going to happen.

[ccpup]

26. Hmmmm ...

well, that is the day Mars finishes up his conjunction with Barack's Venus and begins his trine to her Sun. Sometimes planets will leave a bit of a "parting gift" before moving on to the next degree, so it might be interesting to see how this plays out.

Secondly, she does have the Tr Sun trine her Ascendant/Mercury the day of the Primary -- an aspect I may have overlooked earlier and neglected to mention --, so perhaps whatever happens Monday helps to keep her on-message and puts her (with that trine to her Ascendant in effect) in a good light.

Lastly, with another aspect I overlooked earlier (I tend to focus on the slower moving planets only occasionally glancing toward Jupiter or Venus or -- and almost never -- the Tr Sun), Barack has Tr Mercury opposing his Uranus the day of the Primary, so it's possible he may be thrown off-message by the events of Monday. But it could also be a bit of a holdover from the just passing Mars inconjunct his Mercury as well, so perhaps it's a bit of the same energy we're seeing now -- being a bit off-message and on the defensive, slightly scattered and undisciplined with what he says -- only continued for another day with a different aspect (Mercury opposing Uranus).

Only time will tell, I guess.

[Lucinda]

31. Thanks. I thought it might be worth looking at...

It seems very logical that the frustration and barriers would carry over from the past week all by themselves, even without any additional events. I caught the Trippi comment, so I was curious. Hillary did well enough today that MSNBC was talking about his win tonight as almost an afterthought. The focus was ALL on Pennsylvania. That would also add to being off messsage.

Appreciate you taking the time to peek at it! :hi:

[ccpup]

33. and with Mars trine her Mercury/Ascendant

during the Primary and Venus trine her Saturn the day after the Pennsylvania Primary, I anticipate her doing well there, too!

[Lucinda]

35. That's very good to hear!

It meshes well with what I have been feeling.

[katty]

45. yes, Mars, she will do well/better with male voters

[ccpup]

48. although not too familiar with asteroids

she also has Tr Venus conjunct her Pallas today, so perhaps the female vote -- which had been trending strongly toward Barack in Mississippi -- will be better than expected? Guess we'll see at the end of the day.

[NMDemDist2]

20. thank you so much for your hard work and time, I really enjoy your threads

nice to have them right here on DU

I was going to check Nancy's Starlight News regularly, but you actually seem to have better predictions so far.

don't worry about the negativity, people who don't enjoy the threads are welcome to use the hide thread option

I really hope you keep up the commentary!

:applause:

[katty]

46. starlight is really good

[Grateful for Hope]

47. I agree

It is really good.

[Coyote_Bandit]

32. .

I really enjoy these threads and appreciate your efforts. Thank you.

I am a neophyte astrologer at best. Entirely self-taught with much left to learn. I am fascinated to follow your analysis and how it plays out day to day. It gives me an opportunity to compare your analysis with my own - and with the events that follow. I think of it as an experiment of sorts.

I am not invested in either of the remaining candidates. I pretty much think they both suck. Either Obama or Hillary will certainly be better than McCain but neither will bring significant change. Talk is cheap and aspirations have little value if the legislative and judicial branch do not also act consistently to implement those aspirations throughout government.

[saracat]

36. Thank you ccpup. Great work and please keep posting!

We have not always agreed but you do a wonderful job and I am always interested in your posts. I am an Edwards Democrat who could sometimes be annoyed at some of your posts but astrologically , you are on the money. We don't always get to hear what we want but thats just the way things are.

[okasha]

40. Excellent, detailed analysis, ccpup.

Please keep posting; as you say, watching it all play out in such a public and dramatic way is fascinating.

[ccpup]

49. I was wrong ... so wrong

And I'll be the first to say it.

Obviously with Barack's win, the astrology evident in both charts will manifest in the candidate's lives and careers in a different way. But the aspects my little astrological eye spied -- and which led me to erroneously calculate a Hillary Win in Mississippi (what was I thinking?!) -- are still there, so watching the following few days as the Venus and Mars aspects play out and today, as the Sun opposite Mars aspect plays out for Barack might be interesting.

If Hillary can take a drubbing in Mississippi and STILL be as fired up as that Mars trine Sun indicates she is, then I'll tip my hat to her ... if I had a hat to tip, that is. But you guys know what I mean.

So, even the best make mistakes and I'm far from being "the best". My apologies to those I might have disappointed.

And, before the naysayers have a chance to step in and urge me to bow out now, I'll continue posting my thoughts as the race winds down. I'm still calling a Clinton-Obama team in early- to mid-May and I'll post my thoughts on why later, if you like.

[PinkTiger]

50. I'm with you, Ccpup

You know I'm predicting similarly. But I admit, it is hard to hold on to one's predictions in this climate. It is an emotional rollercoaster for everyone. My predictions were not based on astrology, but on visions. And these are visions I didn't even control. As an empath and intuitive, I'm also picking up on much emotional stuff coming from the people involved in these races, and not just the candidates.
One thing I wish somebody would address is the amount of vitriol coming from the Obama camp on this board. I try to stay away from GDP, but it is like trying to stay away from a bad car wreck - one tends to rubberneck a little.

[Coyote_Bandit]

53. I agree that there is lots of emotional stuff in play

That is to be expected when the primary and recurrent theme of one competitor is a hope for change - a theme that has a clear appeal to emotion. When that is the theme then everything else becomes secondary - including analysis of issues and the likelihood that proposals will find practical success.

Rational appeals are easily discarded and rationalized. Not so with emotional ties. Failed emotional investments lead to disillusionment. That failure could be either a failure to secure the nomination - or a failure through an ineffective presidency. In any event that long term potential for harm poses a very real danger.

Lots of reasons why emotional appeals are successful - and those reasons have more to do with those who respond to the appeal than those who issue it. Not to say that emotional and rational appeals are completely divorced from each other of course. Or that all who support a candidate who uses an emotional appeal have responded emotionally rather than rationally.

Personally I think the vitriol and aggressiveness is an indicator of emotional investment not in a particular campaign or candidate but rather in a particular hope and vision. Folks want change. But they are unwilling or unable to recognize the change they desire will only be accomplished when all branches of our government work together to implement it - something which will only occur over a period of time.

[ccpup]

55. I do my best to not lump Supporters into one big group

especially if the behavior is unnecessarily nasty (per the PMs in my InBox I found myself faced with this morning ... the tauting and teasing unkind mocking of people who, at their age, should really know better).

The Jupiter sextile his Ascendant was really a blessing and, perhaps, will help to mitigate the Sun opposite Mars today. But come Pennsylvania, he's locked into Saturn square Moon with Jupiter not yet in a trine to his Mars (another factor that may ease the burden).

I keep going back to that SAturn, though, as Saturn really, REALLY tries to teach us what we need to know. And in hitting his emotional, gabfest of a Gemini Moon (natally trine Jupiter, so that Saturn is also inconjunct this Jupiter) with a difficult -- though useful if one uses it -- square, Saturn may be trying to show him one last final time (as this is the final passage of it) that he needs to put more solid structure behind his words.

As this Saturn is also inconjunct his Mercury (further highlighting the need to put structure behind his words) and sextile Venus (I'll discuss this later), the astrological pot becomes even thicker.

Pennsylvania is still Hillary's, I believe, as is the Top Spot on the ticket and looking at the Mars transits to her chart and continuing Saturn station sextile her Sun both before and after the contest, I think she'll do very well.

I suspect Barack will do fine enough, but that Saturn square Moon, inconjunct Mercury and sextile Venus is leading him into forging an agreement that will be a bitter pill to swallow but will reap magnificent rewards in the end.

[mother earth]

56. It has been my gut feeling since BOTH are doing equally well,

that there must be a unity ticket. Otherwise, Barack's uniter image will be forever tainted, the party forever split, & this is exactly what McCain would love. A win is not negotiable, we must win and the only way to do so is thru unity.

I want to know why Dean is not taking this on, because the longer we wait, the more detrimental this race becomes. We can't chance things, if either candidate is going to be ready on DAY ONE, they had better put that leadership into play TODAY & let the pettiness die. This is about more than what has become "media" personalities duking it out, and less about being presidential with every swipe they take at each other. I'm tired of it & I wish Edwards had stayed in because he could've risen above this foolishness.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing more, ccpup.

[liberalnurse]

60. Please send me a PM if you have a moment...

I would like to share a brief message with you.

LN

[PinkTiger]

65. For some reason, it won't let me.

SS. PM me, please.

[liberalnurse]

66. It said yours was disabled ...

That's why I posted it. Maybe DU is under construction or something like that which is blocking it...I'll send off a note to the mods.:hi: :shrug:

Check your preference......Mine works... :argh:

[PinkTiger]

76. I think I fixed it.

I tried to send you a PM -- did you get it? Please let me know.

[liberalnurse]

52. I think he lost by sending the message to Pa and the other

upcoming Primaries that it is a black man they voted for not a Democratic Candidate. Everyone is thinking it, speaking it in close quarters....Geraldine Ferraro new it and said it Monday and that is the leading media discussion regarding the election....after the sex and prostitutes are thoroughly analyzed of course...

Pennsylvania will let him know it. I think you were right ccpup.....He didn't get many white votes per analysis....just the Nader-like thinkers. 90% black....that is a loosing message to me.

[mother earth]

57. Just wanted to interject here & say I agree with your take, liberalnurse.

I also agree with Ferraro. This race has become about the first black pres, nothing less and nothing more, but then I've felt that from the start, except that I've always thought it was about a first (fill in the blank). Edwards' was the only one who had the issues right, but he was just a white guy, not a first. What a tragedy because we need that man desperately. Having said that, I hope the two left standing wake up real soon.

[liberalnurse]

58. It looks like Edwards saw this coming and

got the heck out of the way! Smart man.O8)

Obama, he needs to take the VP position. He risks the stigma of being "the Divider" when ever his name is mentioned, it will stick...

[Lucinda]

54. Looking forward to hearing it.

:hi:

[katty]

62. not sure now about the Hill/Obama team after Ferraro

blasted her way into this race--IMO they really need to get some control of HRC's campaign-Dean needs to have them both reel it in.

[WolverineDG]

67. I was wondering if something had been mis-read

like the Neptune thing that was to unmask Obama & instead unmasked Hillary (as well as some of her supporters). :shrug:

I like reading these insights, even though I don't see any way in Hades these two are going to run on the same ticket AND defeat McCain.

dg

[Celebration]

68. I like reading them too

Not sure what astrology says about it, but I don't see them being on the same ticket at all.

My pendulum tells me that much.

However, my accuracy rate on future events is probably only 55%-65% or so. I think I am letting a little bit too much of my conscious judgment in there.

[katty]

69. well it appears Hillary is stumbling in her tactics to unmask

Obama and he is well aware that she wants to agitate him to fight back the 'same way'-and he just won't play that way. He is masterful at staying calm while her campaign keeps freaking and making missteps. In my view Obama is running as a person, he has no emotional connection or drama around being African American/mixed race-it is a non-issue for him, really. I will say he is better on offense (aren't we all?!) than doing defense. Hillary is more skilled at defense, she can pull it off pretty well-he seems to stumble around that.
We can't always be in the middle (clearly Obama prefers that middle place)life has a way of just beating you up - it can be very polarizing. As for astrology, she does have some great aspects-hope she doesn't blow it, it would be a real waste. Obama can no longer stay out of the fray, that's the problem so he has alot of work ahead.

[Celebration]

73. think you are right about Obama and race

It seems almost as if he almost doesn't get why race could ever be an issue. Even though he obviously knows he is black he is more likely to just identify himself as a "person." Part of that may be that he just does not have that generational karma related to slavery. That makes him very different from almost all blacks in America.

Michelle has some of the edginess from generations of discrimination, ancestors having been owned by people, etc. She has to be careful not to offend any more if her husband is the nominee. I certainly don't have her background, but I can kind of feel where she is coming from. Many people think people should be over slavery after over 100 years. It just doesn't happen like that. Once I heard that humans are collectively suffering post traumatic stress syndrome from a past meteor strike that just about wiped us all out, thousands of years ago. That seems about as good an explanation as any for what we have become. Throwing out the past just doesn't happen quickly, if at all. That energy is all around us.

[katty]

75. concur re: O, gen karma..and he was to a great extent

raised by his white grandparents in HI (even when I am in Maui off the 'mainland'the energy is different)he just can't and thus won't relate to the obvious stresses of the race issue that Michelle Obama has inherited/had to deal with-she definitely wants to put it all out there. Obama and campaign advisors/handlers will have to reel in Michelle from time to time.

[ccpup]

70. nope, not Neptune

more like my wondering openly in my OP which aspect would "win" the day for Barack: his Jupiter sextile Ascendant or his Tr Sun opposite that Mars. Looks like Jupiter won.

As for running on the same ticket and beating McCain, I'm waiting to see what happens once Uranus stations conjunct her Moon and opposing his Mars ... at the same time. Decisions made at that time will be electric, upset the status quo, make history and set the political world on fire.

Should be very, very interesting.

[okasha]

72. I find that Mars-Uranus opposition worrisome.

Hard aspects between those two tend to represent danger.

[ccpup]

74. well, yes

the temperaments of those two planets when put together via opposition can be quite combustible as well as uncontrollable. But this Mars of his is also being graced by a trine from Jupiter for the first week or so -- or maybe the first few days --, so maybe that will lend a helping hand out of dangerous dark alleys.

But after that Jupiter leaves the trine to his Mars and retrogrades from the 22nd degree back to the 21st degree, it begins it's sextile to Hillary's Mercury/Ascendant the same time Saturn is direct and back to being sextile her Sun. During the majority of Uranus' journey conjunct Hillary's Moon and opposite Barack's Mars, Saturn will be Direct and first sextile her Sun, then conjunct her Midheaven (where he was when she won Ohio/Texas/Rhode Island) and finally conjunct Barack's Pluto.

One thing I haven't mentioned though is the transiting South Node.

When Barack lost New Hampshire, it was conjunct his SP Uranus. Granted it was traveling over that degree for much of January, so it may mean little when it comes to divination. But during the contest in New Hampshire, Tr South Node was 7 minutes from exact his SP Uranus. During Pennsylvania, the Tr South Node is 10 minutes from exact his Natal Uranus. It will be interesting to see if or how that manifests during this contest.

Hillary's Tr South Node will be 55 minutes past exact of being sextile her Natal Uranus. Actually, when Barack won Iowa, the Tr South Node was 55 minutes from being exactly conjunct his SP Uranus and, when he lost New Hampshire, it was 7 minutes from exact.

Hmmmmmmm ... I guess we'll wait and see.

[lavenderdiva]

71. still with you ccpup-

and still reading with great interest your insights. Please keep it up!

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Celebration]

61. Here it is October 10, 2002, 11:12 AM

Iraq War Resolution

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00233

:hi:

[Celebration]

64. Hillary's chart for this date?? Any takers??

:hi:

October 10, 2002

[Helga Scow Stern]

63. Please keep predicting!

Bravo to you for knowing what you are doing and sticking your neck out. It's trial by fire and we learn from our mistakes, although sometimes astrology doesn't follow the rules. That's why it's ruled by Uranus.