Hillary conceding?

[ccpup]

I just finished an interesting conversation with a Political Know-It-All (and I label him that way as a personal joke between he and I) about the state of Hillary's Campaign. He thinks she's finished -- regardless of the astrology --, but he's also an avowed Obama Supporter, so ...

Anyway, I decided to revisit her chart and look for the Loss as a way of proving myself wrong. A good thing for astrologers to do as we should strive to be, above all things, both balanced and honest with the information one offers. So, I sat down to look for the sign that she might, in fact, concede on or slightly after March 4th or even after April 22nd, when Pennsylvania votes.

My eyes went immediately to Saturn. He's known to have stopped many campaigns dead in their tracks. And there he is, currently crossing (by conjunction) her Virgo MC. (I'll save my thoughts as to why I work with an 8 AM time for her for another Thread or Post) So, with his ability to constrict and contract passing over her MC, which is the angle representing her career and who she is in the Public Eye, it's possible that could be the key.

But wait.

It's retrograde and this phase gives one the opportunity to correct oneself. To fix whatever he highlighted as potentially weak during his initial Direct pass. Things aren't often ended or decided during the retrograde phase. That usually comes during the final pass when he's Direct again and is either rewarding you for strengthening your foundation or knocking you out of the game because you were as thick as a post and just didn't get it. And with the recent streamlining of her campaign staff and having to consolidate her resources to do more with less -- all done in the Public Eye (very MC, I might add) --, Saturn certainly is in evidence.

Besides, he isn't in aspect to her Moon which would be a depressing, frustrating contact. And immediately after leaving her MC, he whoops it up with her SP Sun by trine and then offers a long, consistent helping hand to her Natal Sun by stationing sextile. In fact, he begins this trine to her SP Sun the same day transiting Mars ignites her Natal Sun by trine.

So, with all due respect to The Mighty Taskmaster, Saturn's no help in my quest to find when or if she'll concede.

Let's look at Neptune. As you all know, he's been smacking the h-e-double hockey sticks out of her natal Saturn the last month or so. But he's now moved away from that aspect. In fact, the next aspects he makes -- in April, I believe -- are a bit of a head-scratcher for me as he's both square her Nodes and trine her SP Uranus. Not sure what to make of that.

On the one hand, one can see the frustration (square) he brings to her attempts to step into what she believes is her Destiny (the Nodes). But the trine to her SP Uranus appears to counteract that with his easing, perhaps, her ability to change.

--- Interesting that people respond well to the more nurturing nature of her Taurus North Node and not the powerful, controlling nature of her Scorpio South Node which is conjunct her Ascendant. As we tend to be afraid to embrace our North Nodes -- as the qualities inherent in them are unfamiliar to us -- and usually find comfort and safety in our South Nodes (a big mistake as our charts are leading us to embrace the opposite qualities of the North Node), it's almost as if the Universe is trying to help her out by making the successful moments in her campaign more Taurus by nature than Scorpio. ---

Okay, back to Neptune.

Oops. I just noticed he's currently in opposition with her SP Saturn. An embarrassing oversight, to be sure. Safe to say, Neptune isn't done with her authority and structure just yet.

At the time he was opposite her Natal Saturn, though, she was also getting slapped by Chiron square her Natal Chiron, her Mercury and Ascendant and her Venus. With those Chiron squares no longer in play -- as well as the trines and sextiles from Saturn and Mars to her Sun I mentioned above --, perhaps this Neptune aspect won't be as harsh?

I don't know.

Wait a minute. Thinking back to when John Edwards left the race, I'm reminded of transiting Venus being exactly quincunx his Jupiter/Moon -- which was receiving a nasty square from Saturn as well -- on THAT DAY. So, looking at transiting Venus in her chart, I discover -- on March 5th -- she's square her Ascendant/Mercury and opposite her Natal Saturn. That might be it.

Ah, but wait again. Transiting Jupiter is supporting her Natal Venus with a sextile and transiting Mars is conjunct her SP Part of Fortune. (sigh) I just don't know. Looking for the Concession is like taking one step forward and then three steps back while feeling that throbbing in your temples grow stronger and stronger.

So, I'm still not sure what to say. Her chart is busy with what I call "work trines" to one's Sun during and immediately after the March Primaries as opposed to the "healing trines" to one's Moon which would be present if someone had thrown in the towel and was mourning a loss in private.

And Barack's chart (as well as Michelle's) is entering what would astrologically appear to be a difficult period, so I'm inclined to say she's in it until Pennsylvania when she has several Fated Aspects coming into play.

Only time will tell, I guess.

[diddlysquat]

1. Thanks.

Good to know that a person I believe is not a quitter, will not quit.

[BlueIris]

2. I just want to thank you for using the 8 a.m. birthtime for Clinton.

I don't know why people even bother screwing around with other times.

[ccpup]

3. the 8 PM birth time has horrible transits for her

so many astrologers who support Obama insist that's the birth time which MUST be correct. :eyes:

But this 8 PM birth time gives her a Fifth House Sun, a borderline Cancer/Gemini Ascendant and a Pisces MC! I don't know anyone who sees in Hillary the upbeat personality a Fifth House Sun would make her. Add to that, if 8 PM were correct, this Sun would be trine a very emotional, watery, dreamy, slightly forgetful (perhaps) Pisces MC. Not exactly the type of personality focused on facts, figures and information and certainly not someone who is above all things ridiculously prompt and businesslike. That Sun trine a Pisces MC would be more gut-instinct driven and intuitive, especially with a Cancer (maybe Gemini?) Ascendant. And that combo would also have given us more books written by Hillary that would have been more personal, revelatory and Pisces-like in Nature. The two books she's offered so far have been interesting, but self-protective "this is what happened and then this happened, too". Not exactly a Fifth House Sun trine Pisces MC.

The 8 AM birth time gives her a Twelfth House Sun, a Virgo MC and a Scorpio Ascendant. With health care having been a career-long obsession -- and Virgo ruling Health and the Body --, one can easily see other's health care being a focus of her career (Virgo on the Midheaven). Her Twelfth House Sun is recognized as having been in the shadows for awhile -- behind that impossibly charming husband of hers -- and of being intensely, almost obsessively private and protective.

But wait. How can one have a Twelfth House Sun and yet be in the public world of politics?

When Bill became Governor, Hillary's SP Sun had just entered the very Public -- and Public Service oriented -- sign of Sagittarius. On her Cosmic Map, learning to step out of her Twelfth House shadow in order to serve others was apparent with this Sagittarius SP Sun journey. This SP Sun has now started the journey through the CEO sign of Capricorn. It's no accident she's running for the Top Job at this time in her life.

And with the 8 AM time, her Mercury and Ascendant are tightly conjunct. As the Ascendant is how others see you, it makes perfect sense that these two would work together to give her an image of someone who knows her facts, figures, numbers, details, details, details. This placement also puts them in a frustrating square with her Natal Saturn, giving her the occasional habit of knowing TOO much and, therefore, seeming like too much of a bossy Smarty Pants.

Anyway, the 8 AM time makes sense for me. May not be what the Barack Supporters like to hear, but I've worked with both charts and that's the one that undoubtedly fits in light of the events she's experienced being mirrored in her transits and progressions.

[okasha]

12. Re: the public face--

I don't have her chart in front of me, but Hillary should also have the Pluto/Saturn conjunction in Leo in her ninth or possibly eighth house. I have a 12th house Scorpio stellium, including Sun, but with that Leo placement I seem to do have done okay with the "performance" aspects of teaching and currently with public advocacy. I got to see Hillary in person yesterday, and she has real a charisma/star performer "thing"--watching the energy flow between her and the crowd, building on the interaction, was absolutely amazing.

Edited to add: and she certainly did not speak like a candidate on the brink of throwing in the towel.

[ccpup]

13. you're right

her Saturn and her Pluto/Mars conjunction are in her 9th House.

Good call! :thumbsup:

[stellanoir]

4. I find your analysis to be. . .

THOROUGHLY ENTERTAINING

Your outer/inner display of your inner dialogue is a stitch and a half.

:hi:

As you know I've a strange aversion to looking at their charts so I'm really pleased you are SO into it.

However I had seen a bunch of references to Barack having a Taurus Moon and then elsewhere saw it in very early Gemini.

What do you have for his birth time?

I think it was rather telling that BC said something to the effect of it be over for Hillary if she didn't win OH and TX.

Lutin keeps saying it won't be resolved until Saturn's station in May. Not sure if I agree with him or not though I generally do.

http://www.michaellutin.com/dailyfix.htm

He posted that on Huff Post but they have a lousy search function.

[ccpup]

5. I use the 1:06 PM time for Barack

During the January Primaries, the SP Moon was both conjunct his Jupiter and trine his Natal Moon at 00 Gemini. The opportunity for further rectification will come as Chiron transits square what could be his 17 Scorpio Ascendant this month and then moves into an opposition with what probably is his 19 Leo MC in mid-March.

[stellanoir]

6. Thanks hon

I still owe you an e-mail.

[liberalnurse]

7. I can't seem to read between the lines.

Could you please summarize your review? What is the Edwards event on March 5th mean? :shrug:

[ccpup]

8. oh my

to summarize my Review? Um ... er ... I thought I summarized at the end. But I'll be happy to recap, if you like.

I don't believe -- based on the (sometimes conflicting) astrology in play -- that she'll concede on or around March 4th. And I've always believed from the get-go -- based, again, on the astrology -- that Pennsylvania on April 22nd was always going to make or break this race.

As for the John Edwards event on the 5th, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Has he announced something that will take place on that date? I've been avoiding GDP like the plague these days, so I'm quite happily and blissfully in the dark.

[liberalnurse]

9. Thank you...I kind of lost it

in translation. Don't go to GD Prime.......it is HELL.

Here is your reference to Edwards in the OP I believe.

snip>

Wait a minute. Thinking back to when John Edwards left the race, I'm reminded of transiting Venus being exactly quincunx his Jupiter/Moon -- which was receiving a nasty square from Saturn as well -- on THAT DAY. So, looking at transiting Venus in her chart, I discover -- on March 5th -- she's square her Ascendant/Mercury and opposite her Natal Saturn. That might be it.

[ccpup]

10. ah, got you

The day Edwards announced he was leaving the race was the day transiting Venus was exactly quincunx his Jupiter/Moon conjunction.

The day after the March 4th Primary (March 5th), Hillary has her own transiting Venus action in the form of a square to her Ascendant/Mercury and opposite her Natal Saturn. But then you have the contradictory Jupiter sextile her Natal Venus and Mars conjunct her SP (Secondary Progress, or P2) Part of Fortune. And then all those trines and sextiles the rest of the month.

Nah, I don't think she's dropping out.

[liberalnurse]

11. Thank you....

O8) :hug:

[elleng]

14. ccpup, I have no idea

how this might work in your analyses, but my feeling is, as a consequence of last debate and some rumors, that they've kind of agreed to run together. AND I thought the standing ovation at the end was for both of them.

THANKS for your work!