Check this out - GWB's Horoscope - Post Election

[TNOE]

I found this REALLY fascinating:

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/gwbhoroscope11nov04.shtml

Snip:
First of all, this is not a horoscope of a true ruler, it is rather that of a puppet being forced to perform because he has no choice (even though he may well have been a soldier or warrior in his past lives). The planets in his first house would give you a hint of who is moving him: mainly oil and mining, and thirdly, pharmaceutical interests. In fact, it has always been relationships and friends who managed his life so far; these relationships and friends have been simply extreme, however.

Snip:
It is very likely that he has been an Arab in more than one life, and an important Native American in another life – betraying his people/tribe to the white man/the Westerners. He has also been one of those who massacred Indians in America. The karma of believing that America would be is the land of the white conquerors has been with him for many lives already (indeed, he is one man who has spent a great deal of time in North America in other lives). The only good thing that can be said about him is that he truly loves his country and his family.

This idea that America (the USA, specifically) is a unit that belongs mainly to the (white) people who founded it is coming to a close in this lifetime. However: he will be forced to realize that since land has been stolen from the Native Americans, white civilization must give it back some time – in a way (Or perhaps found new countries upon its dissolution, based upon ideas closer to Indian values.) Indeed, it is possible that the whole country will break up under or soon after his second term (see later), which he is probably not going to complete in office.

He is bound to be sacrificed by those that move him, which experience will change him deeply and force him to come to realizations from unseen quarters – but this realization may only mature by as late as 2011. We do not think he will be killed, but he may perhaps stay in confinement for a while, and it is certain that he will have to face some sort of judgment for his deeds. He will face the wrath of people for wars, the economic collapse and for his lies – which he believes have been committed for the sake of the nation.

He is an alcoholic – it is next to impossible to remain sober for a long time with this constellation. (Mercury with Pluto and Saturn, with Moon as dispositor means a destructive mind). Even though he says he is sober since he met Jesus when he was forty (the exact time is more like his early forties), he probably drinks now as well. (Or those who control him hand the stuff out to him time to time.)





P.S. - I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR THIS ROOM - AND GLAD I FINALLY FOUND IT! DOOOOH! Thanks to all of you who helped in giving us this space!

[Castilleja]

1. Wow, that is an interesting one...

Thanks for posting it.

[NJCher]

5. On second reading

I thought this article so intriguing that I came back to read it again.

On second reading, I find these passages most interesting:

1) bush has already destroyed entire civilizations (possibly planets!) before:

Destructive forces are so strong around him that he may actually destroy more than you can believe: he has already been participant of the destruction of a civilization – or a planet – in one of his previous incarnations.

In addition, recall what environmentalists said at the end of the 90s? They said we don't have much time to turn things around. Now I think we can pretty much say we've gone over the edge. "Environmental disaster" is on the march!

2) Wonder if the following means we blue-staters get to dump Jesusland?

Indeed, it is possible that the whole country will break up under or soon after his second term (see later), which he is probably not going to complete in office.

I will be so happy to see it if he cannot complete his term. The very idea that he thinks he's finally one-upped his father because he stole a second term in office galls me.

Also, I would love it if I had to apply for a passport to go to Jesusland.

3) We at DU have long observed that he's hit the sauce over the years. His pictures and the behavior show it plain as day:

He is an alcoholic – it is next to impossible to remain sober for a long time with this constellation. (Mercury with Pluto and Saturn, with Moon as dispositor means a destructive mind)

And recall all those glazed-eye pics of Laura? Look at this:

... his wife uses pills.

We pegged her as a Stepford Wife a long time ago.

4) This is both good and bad for us:

He does not know why, but the more he fights any party, the stronger his enemies become.

Good in the sense that as a party we've become stronger. Bad in the sense that bush has made Al Quaeda stronger.

5) Looks like his failures will be taken up by aspiring candidates in the '06 elections:

When Jupiter enters Scorpio in sidereal counting (late October, 2006), his enemies will have a field day...

And I hope it wins us better representation in the House and Senate.

6. Recall his Freudian slip about the "crusade" early in his term? It caused such controversy?

The wars he will bring about can cause the very dissolution of the country: the issue fought for is an old one, probably a war on religion, the Crusades etc.

Maybe that was one of his former selves creeping through. Muslims were rightfully outraged by that remark and looking at the slaughter that's going on over there, is there any doubt at all that this is a way of eliminating them?

7. Finally, this:

As far as his opponent, Kerry is concerned: we are surprised to learn – looking at his chart – that he is moved by the same Plutonian forces, which means he would have been the executor of the same will as Bush.

Does anyone recall that astrologers said something similar about bush and Gore in 2000? I recall them saying one was Tweedledee and the other was Tweedledum. While not for a minute do I think we would be in Iraq with Gore, it makes one wonder if it's not the ruthless foreign policy this country has pursued over the years that is coming to light and for which retribution will be exacted. In that sense, I think the issue is larger than any president as it is the accumulation of decades.

Thoughts, anyone?


Cher

[saracat]

6. I would have phrased the Kerry section

differently. But It is not my reading! I believe that it would have been difficult for Kerry , and may be yet! but while an overall result might be similar as the result of powers behind the scene, I have no doubt that we would not be in as deep an abyss as the moral clarity of the man would not allow it to happen. Bush is amoral so anything could happen. Just my thought!

[KoKo]

8. I read it three times...found the last part about Karmic forces behind the

two men very creepy. A very interesting article. It's sad that we would seem to be trapped in some karmic situation by both Bush and Kerry. I think the line of the Bush's set us up for this. Father, Grandfather, Greatgrandfather. This article points that out. The Greatgrandfather was in the gun making business, the Grandfather was involved in business with the Nazi's, the father was into drug running, intenational and national espionage, his sons are all into much the same thing...and we get one of the evil spawn occupying the White House for two terms.

Kerry's ancestors were involved in shipping in Boston (hints of China Trade) and who knows what else. Some kind of American Karma coming back to bite us and we are all along for the ride, just because we didn't have the resources to stop it. Awful....

It's very hard to plan with such a doomful situation ahead of us. How does one plan ahead with a maniac at the helm of the ship? How do we know what to save for, where to save, where to live, how we are to cope with such changing circumstances. Where is the joy and the hope with this ahead of us? Even our friends and family relationships have been hurt by all that's been going on. Some of us have folks we can't relate to because of the anymosity they have sewn all over. Even our
religious expression is under attack as well as our bodies.

And all in four years! It's quite gloomy. There must be a way out of this so that we aren't all brought down by someone else's karma.

[NMDemDist2]

2. that's quite the site

sylphs and lots of other goodies

how could i be interested in metaphysics for decades and never heard of chemtrails or sylphs till i found DU?

[Desertrose]

3. TNOE- this sort of fits in with what I felt about bush for awhile now...

"....it is rather that of a puppet being forced to perform because he has no choice"


I just feel sorry for the life he must lead. How horrible to be so clouded and so controlled. He sure makes a wonderful focus for hatred though, doesn't he?

Great article and great site...thanks TNOE :hi::loveya:

:hug: DR

[NJCher]

4. so.....

I can see the economic downfall coming. Yes, I will get my money out of the states and into foreign property and investments. Looks like we have about two years.

I don't plan on selling my home, however. Maybe I will take some equity out of it, though. I read another Indian astrological forecast that said housing values in the U.S. would remain relatively stable.

It's quite interesting, don't you think, that the scenario would be the same whether it were dumbya or Kerry in office? It makes me think of various posts I've seen in other forums at DU. One in particular was about how bush stealing the office again might lead to a better world for those outside the U.S. but worse for U.S. citizens. The thinking was that the U.S. has not used its power benevolently or wisely and it is best that it be divested of it.

What actually got me over the theft of the election was that things are too far gone in this country for Kerry to have straightened them out. bush has made such a mess. He will never clean it up; he's incapable of that. He will simply wreck the country, period, end of story.

I did enjoy reading that there might be some justice after all. I would be deliriously happy if he were to go to prison although the confinement they speak of is probably more like an alcoholic rehab center.

What a pitiful situation, isn't it? So sad that we have to go through this with this pathetic moron at the helm.


Cher

[hippiechick]

7. Hmmm ...

Before anyone flames me let me say I am a believer. I'm not educated in astrology or past-life regression, tarot, or any of the arts - I merely follow them with interest because I think there is something to them.

That said, I am having a hard time putting aside my skepticism on this particular reading. There isn't alot here that any one of us couldn't have predicted based on reading Ivins, Kelley, and by knowing just a little about Bush's record as governor/resident.

Were it written in, say 1999, it would hold more credence for me, but since he's been out there for all to see and debunk for over 4 years already ... I'm gonna take a pass on it.

JMHO ~


:hippie:

[belle]

14. Yeah.

[Helga Scow Stern]

9. Kerry moved by Plutonian forces, but from another direction than B*sh.

"As far as his opponent, Kerry is concerned: we are surprised to learn – looking at his chart – that he is moved by the same Plutonian forces, which means he would have been the executor of the same will as Bush."

I don't agree with this part of the article, although overall it was interesting.

Kerry ties into the US Pluto and Moon through his vibrant Jupiter in Leo, whereas B*sh connects through his weak, shadowy Saturn in Cancer in the 12th house, a waning Saturn now in its final stages of a cycle. So one brings forth the transforming power of Pluto through noble consciousness and true leadership, whereas the other actualizes it through destruction, fear, and breakdown. Simple.

On election night, the will of the people spoke strongly as tertiary progressed Jupiter was right on the tert. Prog. midheaven on the US Moon. Positivity abounded. It will prevail. Kerry is only on the same wavelength as B*sh in that he has as much potential to transform the country as does B*sh to bring it to ruin. It will take the cycle of Saturn's last retrograde in Cancer to clear this up. Then perhaps we will be done with negativity as such a steady diet--at least the stronghold will be broken.

There is another strong karmic tie--Kerry is B*sh's nemesis, his undoing. Kerry's Pluto and North Node are on B*sh's ascendant and Mercury; B*sh cannot escape him. This same ascendant and Mercury of B*sh, and Pluto and North Node of Kerry fall right on the North Node of the US: B*sh has taken the US on a hard ride. Kerry does not follow in this path, but has the mandate to transform it. He was born for this.

And one more thing while I'm at it--the US has been in a sub-sub-bhukti of Ketu (the South Node)since 11/3, bringing fog and confusion. This shifts 12/5 to Venus, which is also the date of the Mars-Venus conjunction. Any ideas? Venus rules the presidency, in the chart I use.

[KoKo]

10. Thanks....that's very interesting about Kerry. When is Saturn's last

retrograde with Cancer...the date? (If it's in the original article I will go back and check for it) Your article gives a sliver of hope..perhaps election fraud will allow Kerry to shine if he is persistant in persuing it. :shrug:


"It will take the cycle of Saturn's last retrograde in Cancer to clear this up. Then perhaps we will be done with negativity as such a steady diet--at least the stronghold will be broken.

On Edit: I Googled "Saturn Retrograde in Cancer."

http://psychicvortex.com/AstroSaturnRetro.html
Saturn's Retrograde
Re-examine Family Values
(November 8, 2004 through March 21, 2005)

On March 21, 2005 Saturn will be at direct station. He will be turning from a backwards motion to a forwards direction again. Most astrologers feel that when a planet is at direct station, the stress is the greatest. We will probably feel these affects up to five days prior and after the actual direct station. Luckily there won't be any major planets aspecting Saturn at this time, but these few days could bring upsets and plans going wrong especially in the areas of family and home. Be ready to adjust your schedule. There may also be some work to do at this time.
http://psychicvortex.com/AstroSaturnRetro.html

[NJCher]

11. a note to us from the writer

I wrote to the author of the above post and heard back:

Dear Cherie,

I tried to log in myself to this thread, but as I am based in Hungary now I
could not be a donor. There are some replies from people who know certain
things about astrology, but I think a couple of things should be cleared up
regarding Indian and Western astrology in respect of Bush and Kerry.

Here is what I tried to post but could not:

Hello there,

This is Kartikeya, I wrote the quoted Bush article, using the insights from
my astrology group. If we do not want to confuse readers at this forum, I
think we ought to add that Indian astrology uses the sidereal zodiac, and a
whole sign house system. Those astrologers who have some experience with
both systems generally find that this is a better basis to predict outside
outcome (such as an election), and former lives, whereas the tropical zodiac
(used by conventional Western astrology) is generally very good at analyzing
a person psychologically, and looking at his personal life cycles.
Sidereally, Saturn is in Cancer from Sept. 05, and will backtrack into
Gemini from January to May, 2005, then reenter Cancer until the spring of
2007. At first glance I also thought that Bush could not win because of his
Saturn return, which falls into his ascendant house Cancer. The thing is
that Cancer is eleventh from his Moon, though. This is excellent for him.
Saturn, after all, lifted him up to be President and curbed his bad habits
in its dasa. Venus is the Lord of 11th from the ASC (the house of the
future), which will make him conceited, but will also bring victories such
as the present one.
I have to remark, though, that the majority of Indian astrologers in India
forecast a Kerry victory - possibly because they have not taken Pluto into
account, and because we based our reading upon nakshatras - or Moon-signs.

DETAILS: Bush's Sun is in Punarvasu (Jupiter), which is where the Moon was
during the first part of Nov. 03. Pluto and Venus are in Aslesha (ruled by
Mercury, which in turn is spoiled by standing with Saturn and Pluto in
Cancer). Of course this is bad for America (Gemini - July 4). Kerry's Pluto
is in Pushya, ruled by Saturn, which is posited in his eighth, retrograde
(Gemini!). A Saturn like that would be also be dangerous enough for America,
although in a different way. Added to this is that Kerry's Saturn is in
Mrigasira (ruled by Mars (retrograde, standing with his Moon and Uranus in
Taurus). That means he would have been forced to make some of the same wars
as GWB for material reasons - the Saturn-Pluto connection led by a
retrograde Mars - and waste resources. The forces are fateful, eighth house
forces. Saturn transits his third house from the Moon - ninth from ASC. This
does not spell a good appearance before the world during an election. Saturn
is in Cancer now, passing over Kerry's Pluto. Pluto is in Jyestha now, a
Mercury Nakshatra, and Kerry is in his Mercury Dasa. This actualizes the
Plutonian potentials in his case, too. There is no way he could escape the
masters who control Bush, he could submit or be killed.

I still think Kerry would not have been as great a difference as he appeared
to be, from the point of view of possible wars and possible economic
calamities. I personally found him very likable, and had it not been for his
horoscope, I would have believed in real change. I actually think any
politicians or leaders in America born between 1932 and 1952 (when Pluto was
in Cancer) are inappropriate presently, while Saturn is in Cancer - they are
deeply tied to oil and radioactivity. The only exception would be members of
the healing profession. The worst leaders are those born between 9/27 1945
and 7/28 1948, who are bound to bring destruction because of Saturn being
conjoined with Pluto.

Regards,
Kartikeya

So.....

The only exception would be members of
the healing profession.

Can you spell H-O-W-A-R-D D-E-A-N ?

I think I'm gonna' go cry now.


Cher

[KoKo]

12. Geeze that's depressing...... Was it Richard Nolle who thought Dean had

the best chance against Bush? One of the astrologers early on didn't even mention Kerry...just said Dean had the best transits. I thought it was Nolle because he didn't update after that. But, maybe it was Majorie Orr..

I have to hope that the Vedic astrologers are maybe a little off on Kerry, and Bush...

Saturn is good for Bush? Sheesh....

[Digit]

13. I take this to mean Kerry would not have been able to pull out of Iraq

I take this to mean Kerry would not have been able to pull out of
Iraq immediately. The Ain't I Christ began a war which should never have begun in the first place. It is a mucked up spot to be in, but I don't for one second believe Kerry/Edwards would have been outsourcing jobs and sticking it to the American middle class like * is doing. Nor do I think K/E would have been making such enemies of our allies and former allies.

[belle]

15. Well, the other part is, of course, he would've immediately been beset...

by not only the Repub-controlled Congress but by the entire frenzied attack machine. I mean, I always knew that they were going to make what they did to Clinton look like a walk in the park. I figured that at least Kerry had the advantage of being (I thought) more of a fighter than Clinton; and also was way less likely to give them easy ammo by oh say sleeping with an intern. But I also knew that it was going to be complete gridlock at best. Which I would've been mostly okay with; gridlock is at least better than actively fucking even more shit up. On the other hand, if and when something really hit the fan during his tenure--the economy tanking, another god forbid terrorist attack, or now something like this bird flu--he would've been savaged for it. No, it's not logical, but hello, we haven't been dealing with logic for quite some time now.

And that's without even taking Iraq into account. Let's face it: if he did not get us out of there one way or the other, and he gave no guarantees that he would do so, the left as well as everyone else would be all over his ass by the latter two years of his term.

I still hoped with all my heart that he would win; I knew all this shit was going to happen regardless, and I figured he might at least do some good work to keep the worst from happening, economy and environment-wise, not to mention civil rights-wise (hello, Supreme Court?? sigh). And I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt per Iraq; I knew that he was at least more likely to get us out than Dubya, which isn't saying much. And that he at *least* would not be trying to open up a war on another front. And that he would buy the rest of us time to regroup and rebuild a progerssive wing. But he would've been a lame duck at best; even in my fondest hopes I did not imagine otherwise.

Well, as the man himself said, or something like it, it is a good thing to be able to adapt to new circumstances and change your mind. I threw a lot of energy and cash into trying to get him elected. I will not be doing do if he decides to run again. And I will be pondering the implications of a Bush win with as much objectivity as I can muster. That is, I am rethinking my strong opposition to the idea that "it has to get worse in order to/before it gets better," if only because there's no doubt that it'll get worse, and I have to believe it'll get better *someday*...

[Helga Scow Stern]

16. Thanks for writing. A couple of things....

First, B*sh:

Just because Saturn brought B*sh to the heights in its dasa, does not mean that it will not also plunge him to its depths. He does have Saturn and Ketu (south node) in the tenth house of the vedic harmonic chart that rules his career, meaning that what goes up also can come down, especially if built on unsturdy ground. Nixon was brought down by a powerful Saturn in his 10th. Ketu kicks in as his sub-bhukti on 12/8, suggesting the beginning of the end. Even if he is inaugurated, it is not likely to last.

As for Saturn in the 11th house from the Moon, that could be that B*sh is stopped by his peers, his party, his "friends". That can also mean that the hopes and wishes of his Moon are not fulfilled, but met by hard cold reality (not of his own making) instead. Saturn in Cancer, after all, is a weak Saturn, and its position relative to the Moon only emphasizes this. Saturn is also casting its aspect to the Moon and Jupiter in Shrub's 3rd--his good press and ability to get away with lies. Saturn will not uphold this but corrode it. Saturn's retrograde motion as of 11/8 is a net being cast. It is almost in place. Saturn's going direct on March 20 will only convince Shrub that he is indeed bound by it and cannot escape.

Saturn as 11th from the Moon is also Karl Rove in Bush's chart--it was due to Rove that Bush began his rise. Rove and his tactics will also destroy him. I might add that the unpredictable Rahu is in the 11th from ascendant, made all the more so by its conjunction with Uranus and recent opposition from Pluto. Kerry's Sun also falls opposite this, again suggesting a polarity to the damage wreaked by Shrub and Co.

I would also point out that when Saturn enters tropical Leo this summer, it will be approaching 45 degrees from *'s Moon, entering the window of ruin of the infamous 7 years of Saturn. This Sadi-santi will be especially crushing because his Moon is with Chiron.

As for Kerry, his birthtime is in dispute. I spent a good part of a day working on rectifying it and am not yet satisfied--I would love to see what anyone else has come up with. I am tending toward the times around 8am, not the midnightish time that was also given.
And who is to say that Kerry is not a healer? Just because he does not directly work in that profession, he may be stepping up to that plate on a collective level. His progressed Chiron--the healer--is directly on the Midheaven--the presidency--of the United States. Saturn and Pluto tied thru Nakshatra rulerships is a karmic tie to the powers that be, but it may bind one to transform and serve, rather than to unconsciously act out the dark side. His Saturn in the Vedic 8th also gives him longevity and protection from the dark forces; again, it does suggest a contract, but that may be to expose and to transform the dark, rather than simply to be the victim of it. We are waking up, are we not? The fact that Kerry is in his Mercury Dasa and that Saturn opposes it means that this is the time that these transforming forces come into play. And it is not easy. Think of what he must be going through if he is the least bit conscious. The forces he is confronting show these dynamics.

Time will tell. Let's see what happens when the fog begins to lift on Dec.5 (end of Ketu (KoolAid) period that kicked in for US on November 3).

[TNOE]

18. Very fascinating Ojai

Thanks for your input on this thread. You sound so very knowledgeable. Again, thanks, a great read.

[cliss]

17. Ch., thank you for sharing.

I appreciated reading some background info on these astrologers.

I read this article at Astro World.us about 1 week ago. I was fascinated. Printed it and read it over about 5 times to make sure I didn't miss anything. Like some others, I was dismayed to hear that Kerry would be the engineer of the same destructive forces that we see with Bush. I was gloomy for a couple of days.

Upon reflection, I realized that since Bush is such a puppet, maybe there are forces behind the scenes that are unstoppable. Think of how the world stood up before the war and opposed it. To no avail. All the demonstrations, nothing worked. So maybe they're right.

I would tend to agree that we are headed for some kind of abyss. The way things are going, it's just unsustainable. I'm following the threads about the dollar collapsing pretty closely now.

Last night, I fished out a little booklet written by P. Yogananda in 1940. It's entitled "World Crisis". I've read this little booklet a few times the past 10 years. I never really understood what he was talking about.

Last night, however, all the pieces fit. He's referring to a FINANCIAL crisis. He gives advice on what to do to survive in the coming years. Scary stuff.

Thanks.

[NJCher]

19. additional comments from author of original post

Dear Ojai Person,

I agree with you in numerous points. I must point out that what we do here is not simple Parasari stuff – in many things we are closer to Jaimini and Krishnamurti.

Please note that the majority of traditional Indian astrologers forecast a Kerry victory, with the exception of the noted K. N. Rao. I can send you his complete article if you wish.

I took my Kerry data out of the Kepler database, Rao has a 7:59 a.m. birthtime in Aurora, CO, and I worked with 8:30 Denver. If Kerry's birthdate is off before a presidential election, I would say it is not by chance - it is karma. We have to work with the person as known to us.

I agree that Shrub has a weak Saturn, it is in dead avastha, and burned by the Sun, and therefore the last part of its dasa will be increasingly difficult for him. His Mars – 10th lord – is vargottama, and he became President in Mars bhukti - a ruler put in place for warmaking. I think his life is personally miserable, but he will not topple as early as you suggested (although the Jan-May Saturn in Gemini transit may indeed be bad for him, and Saturn stationary may really start things spinning out of control, in a sense.) I have already said in the original article quoted by Cherie that B*sh would probably not complete his second term. I would look at Jupiter, Ketu and Saturn transits for timing his downfall, though.

The 11-th connection is really why he will be eventually sacrificed by the group he represents. I do not have Ketu in the Tenth of his dasamsa, though (mean or true node?). And I would not think he will have real problems until transiting Ketu is left behind alone in Virgo by transiting Jupiter (next Sept). That means the law will protect him - think about the Patriot Acts and Homeland Security! That is how he became President, too.

I think what is really bad for this man is the time when Ketu and Saturn will be scissoring his Mars from the fall of 2006 on. His Ketu is in a desructive, rakshasic Mercury-ruled nakshatra - with Merc. period running. I agree his „communication problems” will shortly start (this includes accusations, media, etc.) but I think he will not leave presidency until after Mercury period starts (2006 May).

In my understanding Nixon was also finished due to Mercury.

I would not mix tropical transits into this – I personally use them only for agricultural issues, as they are based upon a solar logic, and never for a Sade Sati. But see what the coming months bring... Astrology is a science with many different branches, and ancient techniques are being rediscovered.

I find it significant that George’s natal Ketu falls between John’s Lagna and Sun. They are, I agree, each other’s nemesis; this is worse for Kerry, though. Shrub simply annihilates a chance for him to assume power and become famous. He could still be a President later, but by that time Shrub will have largely wrecked the country. B*sh is amassing a great deal of debts, for one thing. He will bring in foreign interests (further commercial unions for example, and further foreign military engagements - 12th house). That will be very hard to undo even during four Democratic years following.

It’s my personal view that the neoliberal-monetaristic economic approach ruling since Reagan is simply inadequate to solve the problems of the American people amassed since 1980 (and especially lately). A much more radical, people-oriented approach would be required. Now four years would not be enough to pay all those war debts (unless they are declared illegal by a new government, and then we would have even larger problems with banks and multinationals demanding payment against the American people).

Plutonian powers – weapons, drugs, radioactivitry etc. – will not leave us so peacefully. Pluto is tied with the eighth house, Shiva - destruction is warranted for the transformation you speak of. I do not think Pluto is a benevolent planet at all, rather, it is like the Jungian Shadow. It is about our darkest aspects, about power, control and its misuse. Think about where you were 248 years ago... It may be the very reason you came back to Earth. In the case of a shaman-healer it could force him or her (esp. if it is with Uranus) to be a healer – instead of a tyrant or a sadist.

Kerry’s Pluto in the 9th in a Saturn Nakshatra, retrograde, along with Rahu. And Saturn is in his eighth! The best I can bring out of this is a new faith, a new philosophy, but he could have misused religious power in another incarnation pretty badly. And when I looked at transits, I concluded that while Saturn is in Cancer, Kerry, if elected at all, would have to do much the same thing as far as essential issues. He would have had little choice these years. Think about homeopathy: when you have a cancer or a poison in your system, you take a poison potentiated homeopathically, but you still have to suffer fever, chills, sweating, diarrhea etc. as it finally comes out. If you feel all right after taking the medicine, that is dangerous – then the stuff remains suppressed and the medicine may not be the right one. Chiron is a healer for everyone, but for profession I would look at Amatya-karaka (Moon for Kerry), tenth or sixth lord (Sun). My understanding is that no one born between 1932 and 52 - except active doctors and naturopaths - could have used that Plutonian power differently during this term – otherwise you would see the deep, compulsive nature of Pluto with oil, mining and weapons trade. (Not to mention Haarp). Kerry' sixth lord Mars is facing the Sun (10th) - this is not good for someone who wants government leadership and a real calling to serve the people. The two would be opposed.

I have to agree with Cherie, who was so kind as to post my writing that Howard Dean would have satisfied these criteria better. With Saturn moving through Cancer now, though, it is possible that we would have faced another Kennedy case, had a real healer, a reformer of these corrupted state of affairs been elected in 2004. There is a negative power afoot, the way I see it, America has been coopted. I lived there while this was going on. This process must unfold to its end. However, B*sh may bring that power itself down before he wrecks the entire country! But our (I am a citizen) world ruler status is probably over within the decade (all for the better). Now that needs real awakening…

K. N. Rao writes: „In this context it is worthwhile remembering that in the horoscope of USA with Simha lagna , the dasha of Moon in the seventh house will run for another seven years and will show its greater entanglements in wars. Bush has started it and is likely to carry it further…” (from article dated 2004. Sept. 10)

Yours,

Kartikeya


Cher

[NMDemDist2]

20. Cher, that stinks ya know

no good news there I can see

:cry:

[BlueIris]

21. Kick. In wake of Katrina and Bush's response, it's relevant.

Especially that first part. Interesting stuff.

[loudsue]

22. Wow! Thanks for re-visiting this thread, BlueIris. Relevant, indeed.

And Katrina has exposed the bush administration in a very painful way to many of the kool-aid drinkers.

2006 will prove very interesting.

:kick:

[Metta]

23. Hubba, hubba. nt

[cliss]

24. Whoa. I forgot all about this thread.

Thanks for breathing new life to it, BlueIris.

I read the whole thread a 2nd time -- it's looking a little clearer now, eh? The fog is lifting.

[I Have A Dream]

25. This is really wonderful! Interesting to see that it's from last year...

so nobody can claim that it was written specifically taking the Katrina situation into account.