Questions about feline CRF (chronic kidney failure)

[Venceremos]

My 10-year-old tabby cat was diagnosed with chronic renal failure (CRF) a couple week ago. I took him to the vet because he had an abscessed tooth. His symptoms were awful breath, reduced appetite and weight loss, dull coat, excess drinking and urination. I thought the symptoms were due to his bad tooth, but the vet said they were caused by CRF. He pulled the tooth and also did a blood test. His creatinine level was 3 (normal is .6 - 2.4). His BUN was in the low 40's (normal is 14 - 36). His red blood count and all other blood work was normal.

Since the day after his tooth was removed his physical symptoms have disappeared. He's drinking and eating normally and no longer excessively urinates. His coat condition has drastically improved and he's gaining weight. He hasn't had another blood test yet, the vet said to wait a month or so. The only CRF treatment he's had so far is that I've changed his food to Hill's k/d.

I've never been impressed with this vet, so I'm uncertain if his CRF diagnosis is correct. He's always trying to sell me extra stuff to make money, but I'm in a rural area and he's the only vet around for miles.

My questions: Can a bad dental infection cause a cat's creatinine and BUN levels to rise or do they only rise because the cat has CRF? Or is it typical for a cat in the early stages of CRF to stop displaying symptoms?
Thanks in advance if anybody knows - I've researched it on the internet but couldn't find any definitive info.

[Coyote_Bandit]

1. I have a dog that was diagnosed with

CRF at 5 months of age. He is now quickly approaching 7 years of age. For the past several years his blood values have all tested within normal range. He takes no medication but does eat the Hill's canine k/d. Through the years we have experimented with other diets including homecooked foods and other prescription diets. We have consistently had the best results with the k/d. There have been a few accomodations but my dog basically lives a pretty normal doggie life. No food other than his prescription diet. Treats are raw carrots and apples both of which he loves. An effort to avoid stressful situations, exposure to extreme temperatures and overexertion. He always has access to water.

The k/d is specially formulated for renal dogs (and kitties as the case may be). It will have a very low phosphorpus content because phosphorous is known to accelerate kidney damage. It will have low fat, sodium and protein levels. Fat can cause pancreatitis which is a common problem in kidney compromised animals. Sodium is associated with fluid retention - something which you do not want to occur in a renal animal. They need plently of fluids to assist their kidneys in flushing out toxins - which is why your kitty has been drinking a lot of water. Protein levels are reduced in order to lower the BUN. K/d is also ph controlled because renal animals have a tendency toward acidosis.

There are a couple of Yahoo groups for folks with renal dogs. Some of the information there has been very helpful to me. Some of the information there has been downright dangerous to my dog.

You can learn a lot about kidney disease and how it works by reading about kidney disease in humans. The dynamics are the same but the measurements of what is considered normal differ.

Based on what I understand of renal disease it would appear that your kitty has compromised renal function. Like other diseases renal failure has stages. My research would suggest that your kitty is in early stage renal failure. Thing is, it is not always possible to know what causes renal disease or how quickly it will progress. Among other things, renal failure can result from exposure to toxins or it can be secondary to another health problem. CRF is not diagnosed unless there has been a significant loss of kidney function. The condition is progressive and cannot be reversed. However, there are many things that can be done to help the kidneys function effectively and to protect them from further damage. That is one of the reasons for the development of the prescription renal diets. Some animals are fragile and the disease progresses quickly while others live fairly normal lives for an extended period of time.

I did seek out a second veterinary opinion for my dog when he was first diagnosed. The best prognosis he received was "wait and see." One vet recommended he be euthanized. It did take a little while for his condition to stabilize. Since that time he has done very well.

I'm not a vet so you should take everything I say with caution and try to do your own research. I'm just sharing what I have learned.

I wish you and your kitty well. Give him a scratch for me and treasure your time together.

[Venceremos]

2. Thanks

I'll check out the Yahoo groups. And best wishes to you and your dog.

[glinda]

10. We had a cat once that the Vet told me to put him down as she said tests showed

he had kidney failure. I thought he had gotten worse one night and ended up taking him to another Vet who was available for Euthanasia but he did another test and it turned out my cat had an infection and was not in kidney failure. He gave him appropriate antibiotics and he lived another two years. He died at age 21 3/4.

[GentryDixon]

3. My cat was diagnosed with CRF.

He was put on a low dose of prednisone for a short time, and I had about three more years with him. I am sorry I cannot remember the dose, nor the length of time, as it has been about 15 years ago.

Good luck with your little guy.:hug:

[Venceremos]

4. Thanks

He's not on any meds yet, but the vet thinks I'll have to start him on fluid treatments soon.

[CountAllVotes]

5. my vet told me he is seeing many older cats with CRF

he said it is due to the pet foods out there. Many cats ate the poisoned food a few years ago. That said, I'm not a fan of Science Diet for my cats.

I'm still feeding all three of them ranging from the age of 3 years to 15 years Life's Abundance with excellent results.

The oldest cat is doing fine - had a slight eye problem last year but otherwise is doing AOK.

[glinda]

7. Past poisoning and also toxins in many foods are causing more cases but

the one thing I can tell you for sure is that you should buy a good quality water filter so to make sure that the water is of the highest quality and cysts, toxins and excess horrid things in the water are removed. We recently bought an over the counter one for $550 which leaves a trace amount of good things in the water. You do not have to spend that amount but we did since all of our pets ate recalled foods and two are now on urinary foods. Our one cat cost us thousands and we submitted his info to the lawsuit.

[CountAllVotes]

9. I have been using a MultiPure system

for many years. Where I lived before we were on a very toxic well. The filters had to be replaced every 3 mos. If you didn't do it this often, they'd be green when you took them out.

People living around me were dying of cancer! :scared:

Needless to say, none of my cats ever got a drop of this. :puke:

[tencats]

6. A quick reply here.

First, your Vet would have based the diagnosis for the chronic renal failure part on the returned blood lab report. He should have told you that when CRF does show up the poor cats kidney function is down at least by two thirds. My Vet says he thinks it more like down to the last five percent of function. You might ask your Vet how the values could be likely skewed because of the infection your kitty was suffering from at the time the blood sample was taken. I believe I have often read that its thought that there is a link between a cats poor dental condition and other diseases. Most of our cats will have some degree of periodontal disease during their life. Untreated periodontal disease in humans seems to affect the heart, in cats it seems more likely to affect the kidneys. A cats dental problems can arise or worsen because of CRF. Every one of my cats that were found to be suffering from CRF did make a come back after the first lab report showing CRF and then they would hold up for a while (few months) before crashing. With all I gave sq fluids and adjusted their diet as best I could. In the end they all stopped eating and with mine they also seemed to suffered collapse of their immune system as well. I never could get any of mine to eat that k/d formula though which I hear is very good for a cat with kidney disease. I would advise you to consult with your Vet about retesting when his mouth infection clears.

[glinda]

8. I agree but I am rural also and would also seek a second opinion at that time

Are you in MN? CRF is way too common in cats right now. Maybe worth a trip even though an hour or so to a holistic/regular vet. Someone with a good rating. We drive 45 minutes to our Vet but it has been worth it. I wish we lived by our old Vet but maybe someday.....

[Lorien]

11. Agreed. Kidney failure is all too common among cats eating(for instance) Hill's

Science diet and other "feed grade" diets: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=243&topic_id=4388&mesg_id=4388 from everything I've heard, raw diets can be a great way to treat kidney issues as long as they are prepared and handled properly: http://felineinstincts.com/privacy/FelineCatKidneySupportDietCatKidneyDiseaseSupport.html There are many, many prepared raw diets available: http://pookiesbowwowbakery.com/raw-frozen-diets-c-43.html . I'd look into both getting a second opinion and researching species appropriate diets. Corn, wheat and brewer's rice can definitely cause problems for cats, and unfortunately most grocery store and "premium" foods contain one of those ingredients!

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. About Raw Food Diets

These ***can*** carry risk of salmonella and if not properly formulated can have high levels of fat, protein, and phosphorous all of which can be dangerous to kidney compromised furkids.

Work with your vet regarding an appropriate diet for your furbaby. A good vet will be able to offer several options including some raw and homecooked foods.

My renal dog eats Hill's k/d and has done very well on it. However, it is regularly supplemented with raw fruits and veggies. No raw meat here however. I also have several recipes that I can prepare should I choose - although none seem to be as effective for my furkid.

[Tammie]

13. I went through this with my cat Dixie

She was 18 years old when diagnosed. I don't know that it had anything to do with her teeth though. She wanted nothing to do with the prescription diet. I switched her over to human grade food, which she loved, and we managed to keep her stable for a over a year and a half. Both her regular vet and internist were surprised at how well she did. It wasn't kidney failure that took her, it was cancer in the end. Anyways, here's a website that really helped me out.

http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm