protein supplement -

[mzteris]

for vegetarian?

My son (nearly 14 now) has just gone through a massive growth spurt - height wise. He's still skinny as a rail.

He's very active athletically - dances 5-6 days a week and kungfu 2x a week. Plus PE at school 3x week now. (Yeah, he started "real school" wah. long story. :( ) And the whole "school" thing. Getting up waaaay too early and go go go go go all day long and falls into bed at night.

He's doing Pilates and picks up girls regularly. No, really. He PICKS UP GIRLS. He's a dancer. Or should I say - Danseur. He does ballet.

Because of all of the activities (early morning to late night) - I know he's not eating as well as he should. Though still better than most boys his age, I suspect. Anyway -

he needs to build his body strength. (He's always had core body strength deficits.) So I'm thinking maybe a supplement? GNC recommended the Goat Whey over the Soy Whey - though that's "ok". I'm not sure about either.


Any suggestions/comments?

[Ellen Forradalom]

1. Calling flvegan

This is your department.

[flvegan]

2. Couple questions...

Vegetarian, not vegan, right? That makes it a lot easier.

"he needs to build his body strength" that suggests he needs a supplement. Okay, but what's the real-world scenario behind this. GNC will sell you ice if you're an Eskimo with an icemaker in your igloo. GNC will not, however, take into consideration that as a dancer, he needs to build strength, but also needs to stay very lean.

I'd really like to give you a good answer to this, but I'd need to see a sample of his daily diet.

If he really does need to build his base strength, then I think I can help you folks out. 14 is a great age to get started.

[mzteris]

3. A very definite ECTOMORPH.

He is very lean - both parents were extremely thin (growing up, of course.) He's 5'7 and 3/4" and weighs about 115. He has some muscle though it's long and lean.

He is vegetarian, not vegan.

He also has hypolipedemia - which is just a fancy way of saying he has genetically induced high cholesterol - even with a very low fat diet that we've been on since he was about 6 years old.

Diet has recently changed due to his starting school:

Breakfast:

Usually something like : Whole Wheat Bagel with natural peanut butter and all fruit strawberry jam (no sugar added); or some type of cereal - like Organic Frosted Mini Wheats, Life, or hot oatmeal when it's cold. Oh yeah, skim milk.

Lunch:

Lately it's been sandwiches (Multigrain bread - focus on no transfat, low fat, low sodium, high fiber content) - Tofurkey lunchmeat, Quorn turkey, lowfat mayo & spinach/mix, or Pbutter/jelly. OR he has a salad (maybe with meat substitute), or leftovers from dinner. Nofat pretzels. An apple. Maybe some Teddygrahams. Fruit juice with no added sugar or HFCS. No articial stuff.

Dinner: - now there's a challenge. When eating out - which is too often - usually Italian. Mexican, Chinese. The usual "vegetarian" options. At home, beans - green, butter, black, navy, field peas. Tomatoes. Broccoli. Spinach. TVP. Soy meat substitutes. Quorn turkey/chicken. Pasta. I try to half/half the whole wheat and Barilla pastas. Not enough rice (half brown half white). Natural applesauce. Once it gets cold we'll have more casseroles, soups, chili.

Snacks: Pretzels - he loves Pretzels. (Has a salt craving thing. & a crunchy thing.) Cheese/crackers. Sometimes lowfat icecream or sherbert. Occasionally "regular icecream" out. Lowfat coffee cake or muffins. The occasional candy. (The doc stressed years ago NOT to make his life miserable with diet.)

Heavy on the water or skim milk. Soda or other 'drink' is once or maybe twice a week - no caffeine, no diet, no colored. (Dye sensitivity, of course.)

Oh yeah - and pizza. Cheese or black or green olives. Feta. Or the animal lovers. or well - the usual veggie type.

Overall, yeah - too much cheese. too much pasta. Too late dinners.

He's pretty good about his diet overall, though.


He used to eat very little. This past year - he eats all the time. Cereal or bagels before bed. Nearly a lunch or dinner type "snack" in the afternoon. (I used to call him a Hobbit, 1st and 2nd breakfastes, doncha know? lol) But he's had such a growth spurt he's needed to eat more.

He's SUPPOSED to take vegetarian flax seed oil supplements - but he quit taking them this past year 'cause they taste yucky. He's SUPPOSED to take a multi - but has very sensitive taste buds and they taste awful. (He has sensitive everything - hearing, vision, taste - you name it.)


He recently started the partnering class at ballet which involves lots of lifting and he really does need to 'build some muscle'. He stopped gymnastics this year due to scheduling. School PE - omg - like he needs it? Yeah, I know - most kids DO - but he doesn't. They've been playing tag football for two weeks in the gym. woo.

According to the PT he went to last spring, he also has a tendency to lock his joints and 'lift' more than he's really capable of.

I went into GNC to get some supplements I take and asked if there was anything "new" in the protein department.




PS - about my younger son - the one with the OPPOSITE problems (weight gain, etc.) he has the same general diet - only he still eats too fast and too much and gulps without chewing properly. :( We're working on it. I'm still waiting for the copy of his bloodwork they're supposed to be mailing. We go back to the pediatrician later this week for a "weigh-in".

[flvegan]

4. Okay, I'm going to toss out a couple thoughts

First, his diet looks good for an active 14 year old. The "eating all the time" is good, as having several meals as opposed to just 3 is much better for not only his metabolism, but also for his bristling testosterone levels, which you'll want to keep as elevated as naturally possible.

As for protein supplementation. I really hate to suggest any whey, casein or egg products with an already elevated cholesterol count. If you insist on going that route, the only "new" thing is one of the more obvious ones. Some companies have discovered that mixing both slow and fast burning proteins are the best way to go, as opposed to just making a product with a big number next to the "grams of protein per serving" on the jug. Google "Syntha 6" for a good explanation, and you can probably find some product reviews as well. Were it up to me, I'd suggest a soy protein. For starters, soy has a better bioavailability than most of the whey crap that's out there. Studies have also been done on soy v. whey in the antioxidant department, and soy appears to be easily winning that one. I personally use and like NOW Soy Protein. 2 lbs is around $10, too. You'll probably get a better price online than you would at GNC (who likely doesn't carry it). A health food store might very well have it. Since he's looking to add strength and not just pack on muscle, he shouldn't need but maybe one serving of it per day. Oh, btw, it tastes like crap. Something to keep in mind.

Okay, now here's the bump. Because of his activity levels and the amount of "weight" he's moving, I think it's worth thinking about supplements beyond protein. Naturally, have a talk with his doc first, but I think he'd benefit a great deal for a high-quality creatine and nitric oxide mix. Going this route, plan to spend around $50/mo. It's not cheap, but the effects should be fairly dramatic. I've mentioned this before over in the fitness forum, and I've personally been using it for a couple years with good results. BSN makes a product called NO-Xplode. It's a creatine/akg powder. Rather than going into potentially rule-breaking details about how it works/what it does, I'll let bodybuilding.com do it for me:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/xplode.html

I stack it with Cell Mass (also from BSN), but he probably doesn't need the recovery aspect. It might benefit him to take a small glutamine supplement post class/workout. I also take it differently than the directions suggest. I take a full serving of the NO 40 minutes before I hit the gym, but I also put a serving of both in my water bottle to drink during my workout.

If you go to GNC looking for creatine, do some research first (or ask me, why not?). They may try to sell you some monohydrate or some other crap from the 80's. You want the quality stuff.

Lastly, though I have no idea where he'd find the time, consider having him join a gym. I joined my first gym when I was around 13 or so, and bought my first weight set when I was 14. The best way to get stronger is to progressively lift more weight. Now, unless he's going to start lifting heavier girls every couple months, he's not going to get much stronger.

I'm sure I missed something here. I'll reread this in a couple hours and add to it if need be.

[mzteris]

6. I was thinking soy protein

but they were really pushing the "new goat whey"...

I'll look into the other supplements, too. A lot of the problem is trying to get him to "take stuff". :( He is a kid, after all.

As for the gym thing - his kungfu studio has some weights in the back that some of the people use. I talked to his shifu last night and he said my son could use it no problem. He's concerned about him trying to overdo it, though and stressed going easy - especially with the level of activity the kid's doing.

His dad also has a weight bench at his house though dad has no idea how to use it properly (and, of course, won't listen to anyone) - but I'm hoping after he develops some good routines and proper technique, he can use it on the weekends there.

His dance studio also started a boys only class. I believe their intention is to introduce some weight and isometric type strengthening.

There are a number of girls to be lifted, some larger than others. The stronger and more confident he gets, the "bigger the girl" he can lift. And the more lifts he will do - so I suppose there is some degree of increased weight/repetition in just the partnering class.


Thanks again!

[silverweb]

5. Try quinoa and liquid aminos, too.

I cook _quinoa_ into every batch of rice that I make (25% of the total batch) for a protein boost. My daughter has vegan friends who eat it like oatmeal in the morning, too, and she says it is quite good that way.

Also, you might try using _Bragg's Liquid Aminos_ as a seasoning in different dishes instead of soy sauce, mixed into ketchup, etc.

[mzteris]

7. I'll try the quinoa

My son may like it for breakfast - he loves oatmal and chi fan(which is kinda like rice soup with brown sugar - it's a Chinese thing.)

I used to have some Bragg's but when me moved (cross country) I had to get rid of it. I totally forgot about replacing it! doh.

[Tumbulu]

8. have you tried spelt ?

Spelt in place of wheat can really add available protein to the diet. Spelt not only has 20-40% more protein than wheat, but the protein is significantly more digestible. Plus it has all of the amino acids- it is a complete protein requiring no other sources of protein to go with it. It is also higher in minerals and fiber.

At my coop they have spelt bread and spelt pasta (they claim that a serving of spelt pasta supplies 50% of the daily USDA protein requirement) and spelt pretzels. It is more expensive than wheat- I have grown it and the yield at best is about 1/3 of regular wheat's plus it has a hull. The plant is unique and it intrigues me, though. I always buy and eat spelt bread and they also have rolled spelt that I use for oatmeal/ speltmeal really. Someday I will figure out how to dehull it and then I will grow it again as it is a very special plant in my book.

Quinoa is delicious as well, just can't be used to make sandwiches and pretzels.

[CountAllVotes]

9. I like spelt

and welcome to the DU Tumbulu!! :hi: :D

:dem: