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any herpetologists familiar with the salamanders of the Midwest here?

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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 09:25 PM
Original message
any herpetologists familiar with the salamanders of the Midwest here?
I ask because I found a Northern Ravine Salamander (at least I am pretty sure that's what it is) doing archaeology fieldwork at a military installation in southwest Indiana, but the references I consulted online to identify it all showed the range of the species as ending several counties to the east of the place I was working.

Anyone know if this particular salamander is known from outside its mapped ranges? It would be interesting if I made some sort of minor herpetological discovery...
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is there a herpetologist in the house?
Always wanted to say that. ;-)
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. WriteDown claims to be a herpetologist.
Look him up and IM him.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Wow!
Good memory!
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sallymander is your person!
She can be often found in DU Lounge.
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TheCML Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. weird
i didn't know salamanders could get herpes.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-05-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's my hobby
I'm on vacation though. Ask me a question and I'll help the best I can.
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SallyMander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. Did you happen to get any pics?
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 10:20 AM by SallyMander

Especially of the belly? It is easy to confuse ravines (P. richmondi/electromorphus) with the "lead-back" phase of red back salamanders (P. cinereus). Ravines will have a solid black belly, whereas red backs will have a mottled black-and-white belly. Other than that they can look very similar!

Also, what was habitat like?

ETA: If it is indeed a range expansion, that is interesting to herpetologists. If you have a voucher specimen or photo, you can submit a Geographic Distribution note to the journal Herpetological Review.

:hi:
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Here's the only pic.
Unfortunately does not show the belly, but if I recall correctly, it did have a solid black belly.



The salamander was found in leaf litter near an old well, about 10 feet from a stream in an wooded ravine in Greene County, Indiana. Local bedrock in the ravine was sandstone, although there's lots of limestone around.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Wow, that is a toughy from the photo...
It's most likely a Slimy Salamander, but I'd need more photos to confirm. Good news is that they tend to stay in one place, so you're bound to find more in the Spring.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The Natural Resources manager at the installation
thinks it's the lead-colored variant of the Red-Backed Salamander.

Here's a picture of the three color morphs of the species:

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Could be....
I would love more photo's if you get them.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Unfortunately, we aren't likely to be back in that area
Our fieldwork was completed and I don't think we'll have reason to go back. But we might be going to the same installation but a different area, so I'll keep an eye out for similar salamanders.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'll so some more research tonight....
Have a pile of field guides I still haven't gone through. What area was it again? Perhaps I'll go for a roadtrip in the spring .
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. It's on a military installation in SW Indiana, so it's not open to the public n/t
But you could always look in similar habitats around Bedford. If it is a lead-backed variant of the Red-bellied, then it's known in the area already and not a big deal.
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