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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 07:39 PM
Original message
The only debate on Intelligent Design
The only debate on Intelligent Design that is worthy of its subject
Moderator: We're here today to debate the hot new topic, evolution versus Intelligent Des---

(Scientist pulls out baseball bat.)

Moderator: Hey, what are you doing?

(Scientist breaks Intelligent Design advocate's kneecap.)

Intelligent Design advocate: YEAAARRRRGGGHHHH! YOU BROKE MY KNEECAP!

Scientist: Perhaps it only appears that I broke your kneecap. Certainly, all the evidence points to the hypothesis I broke your kneecap. For example, your kneecap is broken; it appears to be a fresh wound; and I am holding a baseball bat, which is spattered with your blood. However, a mere preponderance of evidence doesn't mean anything. Perhaps your kneecap was designed that way. Certainly, there are some features of the current situation that are inexplicable according to the "naturalistic" explanation you have just advanced, such as the exact contours of the excruciating pain that you are experiencing right now.

Intelligent Design advocate: AAAAH! THE PAIN!

Scientist: Frankly, I personally find it completely implausible that the random actions of a scientist such as myself could cause pain of this particular kind. I have no precise explanation for why I find this hypothesis implausible --- it just is. Your knee must have been designed that way!

Intelligent Design advocate: YOU BASTARD! YOU KNOW YOU DID IT!

Scientist: I surely do not. How can we know anything for certain? Frankly, I think we should expose people to all points of view. Furthermore, you should really re-examine whether your hypothesis is scientific at all: the breaking of your kneecap happened in the past, so we can't rewind and run it over again, like a laboratory experiment. Even if we could, it wouldn't prove that I broke your kneecap the previous time. Plus, let's not even get into the fact that the entire universe might have just popped into existence right before I said this sentence, with all the evidence of my alleged kneecap-breaking already pre-formed.

Intelligent Design advocate: That's a load of bullshit sophistry! Get me a doctor and a lawyer, not necessarily in that order, and we'll see how that plays in court!

Scientist (turning to audience): And so we see, ladies and gentlemen, when push comes to shove, advocates of Intelligent Design do not actually believe any of the arguments that they profess to believe. When it comes to matters that hit home, they prefer evidence, the scientific method, testable hypotheses, and naturalistic explanations. In fact, they strongly privilege naturalistic explanations over supernatural hocus-pocus or metaphysical wankery. It is only within the reality-distortion field of their ideological crusade that they give credence to the flimsy, ridiculous arguments which we so commonly see on display. I must confess, it kind of felt good, for once, to be the one spouting free-form bullshit; it's so terribly easy and relaxing, compared to marshaling rigorous arguments backed up by empirical evidence. But I fear that if I were to continue, then it would be habit-forming, and bad for my soul. Therefore, I bid you adieu.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here in Toronto ...
... a recent (short and to-the-point) Letter to the Editor:

"The fact that anyone is discussing teaching Intelligent Design in school proves the point that there is NO SUCH THING."
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Outstanding!
That's so amazingly amazing, I'd like to steal it. :)
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Steal away.
It's not original with me.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's an absolutely perfect analogy.
and something I'd love to see in real life. Giving it a recommend.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. LOL that is great... I plan on e-mailing it if
you promise you won't break my kneecap:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
nominated
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afdip Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. the reasoning is impeccable . . . .
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kick!
:bounce:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nominated, posted to my blog (with credit) hope you don't mind.
Genius.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Can we distribute this to every public high-school biology class
as "equal time" arguments for the evolution "theory"?

****

Some Mistakes of Moses - by Robert G. Ingersoll
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/some_mistakes_of_moses.html

(excerpt - material in the public domain)


For many years I have regarded the Pentateuch simply as a
record of a barbarous people, in which are found a great number of
the ceremonies of savagery, many absurd and unjust laws, and
thousands of ideas inconsistent with known and demonstrated facts.
To me it seemed almost a crime to teach that this record was
written by inspired men; that slavery, polygamy, wars of conquest
and extermination were right, and that there was a time when men
could win the approbation of infinite Intelligence, Justice, and
Mercy, by violating maidens and by butchering babes. To me it
seemed more reasonable that savage men had made these laws; and I
endeavored in a lecture, entitled "Some Mistakes of Moses," to
point out some of the errors, contradictions, and impossibilities
contained in the Pentateuch...

It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as
sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when
that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the
balance of power, this Government will be destroyed
. The liberty of
man is not safe in the hands of any church. Wherever the Bible and
sword are in partnership, man is a slave...


...

In the second account, man was made before the beasts and
fowls. If this is true, the first account is false. And if the
theologians of our time are correct in their view that the Mosaic
day means thousands of ages, then, according to the second account,
Adam existed millions of years before Eve was formed. He must have
lived one Mosaic day before there were any trees, and another
Mosaic day before the beasts and fowls were created. Will some kind
clergymen tell us upon what kind of food Adam subsisted during
these immense periods?


In the second account a man is made, and the fact that he was
without a helpmeet did not occur to the Lord God until a couple "of
vast periods" afterwards. The Lord God suddenly coming to a
appreciation of the situation said, "It is not good that the man
should be alone. I will make him an helpmeet for him."

Now, after concluding to make "an helpmeet" for Adam, what did
the Lord God do? Did he at once proceed to make a woman? No. What
did he do? He made the beasts, and tried to induce Adam to take one
of them for "an helpmeet." If I am incorrect, read the following
account, and tell me what it means;

"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be
alone; I will make him an helpmeet for him.

"And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the
field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see
what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living
creature, that was the name thereof.

"And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the
air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not
found an helpmeet for him."

Unless the Lord God was looking for an help meet for Adam, why
did he cause the animals to pass before him . And why did he, after
the menagerie had passed by, pathetically exclaim, "But for Adam
there was not found an helpmeet for him"?

It seems that Adam saw nothing that struck his fancy. The
fairest ape, the sprightliest chimpanzee; the loveliest baboon, the
most bewitching orangoutang, the most fascinating gorilla failed to
touch with love's sweet pain, poor Adam's lonely heart. Let us
rejoice that this was so. Had he fallen in "love" then, there never
would have been a Freethinker in this world.

Dr. Adam Clarke, speaking of this remarkable proceeding says:
-- "God caused the animals to pass before Adam to show him that no
creature yet formed could make him a suitable companion; that Adam
was convinced that none of these animals could be a suitable
companion for him, and that therefore he must continue in a state
that was not good (celibacy) unless he became a further debtor to
the bounty of his maker, for among all the animals which he had
formed, there was not a helpmeet for Adam."

Upon this same subject, Dr. Scott informs us "that it was not
conducive to the happiness of the man to remain without the
consoling society, and endearment of tender friendship, nor
consistent with the end of his creation to be without marriage by
which the earth might be replenished and worshipers and servants
raised up to render him praise and glory. Adam seems to have been
vastly better acquainted by intuition or revelation with the
distinct properties of every creature than the most sagacious
observer since the fall of man.

"Upon this review of the animals, not one was found in outward
form his counterpart, nor one suited to engage his affections,
participate in his enjoyments, or associate with him in the worship
of God."

Dr. Matthew Henry admits that "God brought all the animals
together to see if there was a suitable match for Adam in any of
the numerous families of the inferior creatures, but there was
none. They were all looked over, but Adam could not be matched
among them all. Therefore God created a new thing to be a helpmeet
for him."

Failing to satisfy Adam, with any of the inferior animals, the
Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall "upon him" and while in this
sleep took out one of Adam's ribs and "closed up the flesh instead
thereof." And out of this rib, the Lord God made a woman, and
brought her to the man.

Was the Lord God compelled to take a part of the man because
he had used up all the original "nothing" out of which the universe
was made? Is it possible for any sane and intelligent man to
believe this story? Must a man be born a second time before this
account seems reasonable?

Imagine the Lord God with a bone in his hand with which to
start a woman, trying to make up his mind whether to make a blonde
or a brunette!

Just at this point it may be proper for me to warn all persons
from laughing at or making light of any stories found in the "Holy
Bible." When you come to die, every laugh will be a thorn in your
pillow. At that solemn moment, as you look back upon the records of
your life, no matter how many men you may have wrecked and ruined;
no matter how many women you have deceived and deserted, all that
can be forgiven; but if you remember then that you have laughed at
even one story in God's "sacred book" you will see though the
gathering shadows of death the forked tongues of devils, and the
leering eyes of fiends.

These stories must be believed, or the work of regeneration
can never be commenced. No matter how well you act your part, live
as honestly as you may, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, divide
your last farthing with the poor, and you are simply traveling the
broad road that leads inevitably to eternal death, unless at the
same time you implicitly believe the Bible to be the inspired word
of God.

Let me show you the result of unbelief. Let us suppose, for a
moment, that we are at the Day of Judgment, listening to the trial
of souls as they arrive. The Recording Secretary, or whoever does
the cross-examining, says to a soul:

Where are you from?

I am from the Earth.

What kind of a man were you?

Well, I don't like to talk about myself. I suppose you can
tell by looking at your books.

No, sir. You must tell what kind of a man you were.

Well, I was what you might call a first-rate fellow. I loved
my wife and children. My home was my heaven. My fireside was a
paradise to me. To sit there and see the lights and shadows fall
upon the faces of those I loved, was to me a perfect joy.

How did you treat your family?

I never said an unkind word. I never caused my wife, nor one
of my children, a moment's pain.

Did you pay your debts?

I did not owe a dollar when I died, and left enough to pay my
funeral expenses, and to keep the fierce wolf of want from the door
of those I loved.

Did you belong to any church?

No, sir. They were too narrow, pinched and bigoted for me, I
never thought that I could be very happy if other folks were
damned.

Did you believe in eternal punishment?

Well, no. I always thought that God could get his revenge in
far less time.

Did you believe the rib story?

Do you mean the Adam and Eve business?

Yes! Did you believe that?

To tell you the God's truth, that was just a little more than
I could swallow.

Away with him to hell!

Next!

Where are you from?

I am from the world too.

Did you belong to any church?

Yes, sir, and to the Young Men's Christian Association
besides.

What was your business?

Cashier in a Savings Bank.

Did you ever run away with any money?

Where I came from, a witness could not be compelled to
criminate himself.

The law is different here. Answer the question. Did you run
away with any money?

Yes, sir.

How much?

One hundred thousand dollars.

Did you take anything else with you?

Yes, sir.

Well, what else?

I took my neighbor's wife -- we sang together in the choir.

Did you have a wife and children of your own?

Yes, sir.

And you deserted them?

Yes, sir, but such was my confidence in God that I believed he
would take care of them.

Have you heard of them since?

No, sir.

Did you believe in the rib story?

Bless your soul, of course I did. A thousand times I regretted
that there were no harder stories in the Bible, so that I could
have shown my wealth of faith.

Do you believe the rib story yet?

Yes, with all my heart.

Give him a harp!

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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. wonderful
spread the news on this joke and yours. these needs to be nominated
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nice way to put it all into context!
Oh, the hypocrisy!

Thanks for posting this HawkerHurricane. :toast:
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. How I wish they'd tried that argument here in Kansas!
:rofl:
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I sent this to all my biology professors
Great work :thumbsup:
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