Brain Waves Surge Moments Before Death

[n2doc]

Irene Klotz, Discovery News



Oct. 6, 2009 -- A study of seven terminally ill patients found identical surges in brain activity moments before death, providing what may be physiological evidence of "out of body" experiences reported by people who survive near-death ordeals.

Doctors at George Washington University Medical Faculty Associates recorded brain activity of people dying from critical illnesses, such as cancer or heart attacks.

Moments before death, the patients experienced a burst in brain wave activity, with the spikes occurring at the same time before death and at comparable intensity and duration.

Writing in the October issue of the Journal of Palliative Medicine, the doctors theorize that the brain surges may be tied to widely reported near-death experiences which typically involve spiritual or religious attributes.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/10/06/near-death-brain.html

[hedgehog]

1. Or maybe they're downloading their memories to wherever they're going next......

By definition, no scientist will ever drag something into the day light and declare he's discovered a human soul. So, is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

[havocmom]

2. +1

Yeah, maybe just moving from material girl to electrical girl.

[MrModerate]

6. If a human soul is measurable and its existence verifiable . . .

And that verification repeatable, I'm sure scientists would be happy to write it up for the next issue of Science. And yes, absence of evidence is suggestive (i.e., evidence) of absence. Just not conclusive evidence.

[hedgehog]

9. I think that if it were measurable, it wouldn't be a human soul.

[Ian David]

11. If it's not measurable, then it doesn't exist.

Everything that exists is measurable.

It's just that sometimes, we haven't figured out how to measure it yet.

If there is a soul, it will someday be measured.

And soon after, there will be products sold to modify it.

[hedgehog]

13. If something can't be measured, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it

means it doesn't exist here.

If a physicist talks about other dimensions, he's brilliant. If a religious person talks about other places, he's a nut.

[hedgehog]

15. I think the great Captain James T. Kirk encapsulted this concept best when

he asked "What does God need with a star ship?"

[sam sarrha]

26. ..but a Demi-God would know exactly what to do with it.. WAR.!!! Demi's..the Jealous Gods

[Ian David]

16. You can measure other dimensions in other universes. n/t

[HuckleB]

24. Sometimes you feel like a..., sometimes you don't.

Yeah, I know. Crass commercialism.

I couldn't help it.

[BuddhaGirl]

37. +1

to infinity and beyond! :thumbsup:

[MrModerate]

18. And then it wouldn't be "real" as that term is commonly understood. n/t

[roguevalley]

32. people have weighed people at their deaths and there is an tiny difference

in weight after.

[MrModerate]

35. I've read about that, and maybe that's a step toward some sort of . . .

quantifiable result.

I happen to think the likelihood is about zero, but that's just me. And as I'm neither a scientist nor a religious person, my opinion doesn't matter.

[trotsky]

36. Urban myth.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

What to make of all this? MacDougall's results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiosity, but nothing more.

[Chemisse]

40. That's gotta be annoying

To be on your deathbed - moments from death - and having some nurse saying, "Ok honey; it's time to weigh in!"

[Ian David]

8. What scientist would want to earn a Nobel Prize and a Sainthood on the same day?

:sarcasm:



Seriously.

You have no idea what Science actually is, do you?

[izquierdista]

19. I am NOT spending the afterlife in some snotty kid's iPod!!

[MineralMan]

3. If you actually read the article, there's a simple explanation of

why this would happen.

[hedgehog]

4. We can only explain what we can see and measure on this side.

(Cue theme from Twilight Zone)

[sam sarrha]

23. that sorta seems cynical and myopic..

[HuckleB]

25. Well, at least cynical.

[sam sarrha]

27. you haven't had a NDE ore OBE..? they are 'Expansive'.. going places no Freeper has ever gone..!!

[hedgehog]

28. Actaully, I meant that as the opposite of cynical - to indicate that

if something is supernatural, of course you can't measure it. If you could measure it , it would be natural. Shakespeare knew all about this centuries ago.

[sam sarrha]

22. yea..., but thats only for people who haven't had the experience..

[HuckleB]

5. Very interesting stuff.

Thanks for sharing!

[The River]

7. How to Explain

someone stopping nearly all brainwave activity just through
meditation? It's more than just chemical interactions when
you can be conscious even when sleeping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8N4

[hedgehog]

12. If you believe that there is something "out there" that people can touch

or perceive sometimes, there should be some evidence of a physical change or signal at the interface, the human brain. But since we're talking about something "out there", I don't think there is any possible way to differentiate between the brain waves induced by a vision and those from a seizure. Put it another way; if an angel was physical enough to be seen with a camera, there would be no difference between the light waves reflected off the angel and those reflected off anything else. A photon is a photon. It's basically a parlor game, pay your money and take your pick.

[roguevalley]

33. I remember a NDE of a woman getting surgery who had her eyes

covered and ears as well, sealed without a chance of peeking. They brought her body down to nothingness through cold I believe and she still floated around and told them what they did after is was all over. They thought, yeah, right. Then a nurse found a shoe out on a ledge that no one could peer down to just where the woman told them she saw it when she was floating around. That one has never been debunked.

[sam sarrha]

21. Tibetan monks meditate in their dreams, Meditation is a process of training th brain, it essentially

resets the dominate regions of your Organic Brain back to "Default Settings" after your 'Conscious' brain has Fucked up everything.

that is my personal evaluation based on my own experience. after 4 years of training by a Tibetan monk in Meditation.. i was sitting in a group meditation at the Group Center.. i had the realization that Buddhism was a lot like an A.A 8 step program for people addicted to Conventional Thought.

[Ian David]

10. Anecdotal evidence

After seeing one of my dogs put to sleep, I think the final burst of brain wave activity might be simple panic.

[hedgehog]

14. It could be all systems going on red alert, so to speak.

[sam sarrha]

20. doesnt invalidate the experience.. simply means it cant be measured killed an put in a bottle..

an⋅ec⋅dote  /ˈænɪkˌdoʊt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA
Use anecdote in a Sentence
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–noun a short account of a particular incident or event of an interesting or amusing nature, often biographical.

[hedgehog]

29. There's nothing to say that it isn't both the physical body in crisis

mode and a person's non-physical identity encountering something.

[sam sarrha]

39. a geart attack would make anyone spike.. i see nothing valid so far in this, too many variables

[sam sarrha]

17. so does it prove they're real or not real..i think the researchers should 'Flat Line for Science'...

how else can they know what they are talking about.. i have had an NDE, i have also had numerous OBE's.. very similar.

one OBE involved meeting and communicating with a 'Being of Light'... seemed similar to be the voice that said "No,..Not yet" during the gas leak as i was rocketing thu the tunnel after waking up not breathing. , i understand how early goat herders could mistake them for a Burning Bush that is not consumed... you cant walk away from that without being really changed.. i am not religious, i didn't think i met god, but i can see how some old testament folks did. the White Light streams thru you, you're a transparent crystal shell in a non positional space.. it must be something like Plasma, it is a lot like being electrocuted. this happened after an intense 1 1/2 hr Pranayama session.

[hedgehog]

30. I have no idea what it would prove or disprove, but I wonder if people

who are brain dead such as that poor lady down in Florida would show the same burst of signals.

All of this strikes me as the high tech equivalent of that doctor who placed dying people on a scale, bed and all, then tried to determine the weight of the human soul by comparing before and after.

[sam sarrha]

38. what were his methods, tools etc... what frequency spiked.. what does he call a spike.. ? duration.?

[roguevalley]

34. there is a behavior change from this that is almost universal. people

become incredibly loving and ZERO fear of death. My pa had two NDE's when he had strokes. (I remember sleeping on the floor by his bed for two weeks after he came home because he was so touch and go) My papa became even sweeter, if that was possible, and loving and kinder than he already was. He also had ZERO fear of death. He was terrified, absolutely petrified of death before it.

[lostnfound]

31. Reminds me of the 1983 movie Brainstorm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorm_(1983_film)

[gkhouston]

41. So, when my life flashes before my eyes, I'll be seeing it in high resolution?

Boy, I can think of some dates in college I'd rather not re-visit...

[Warpy]

42. I've been very close and the experience was really pleasant

I'd liken it to very deep meditation along with the most incredible sense of peace as everything that usually occupies your mind is seen as inconsequential.

I've taken care of terminal cancer patients and others in the most awful sort of pain. Typically, they will turn medication down just before death. The pain is probably still there, it's just not important enough to do anything about.

Whatever happens, dying is not unpleasant, although surviving an attempt is, along with getting to that point in the first place.