Jenny McCarthy Body Count

[Pale Blue Dot]

Jenny McCarthy is a celebrity from the United States. She is most well known for posing nude as a Playboy Playmate, for picking her nose on the MTV show Singled Out, and for being the girlfriend of actor/comedian Jim Carrey.


In 2002 she gave birth to a son named Evan. In 2006 she started promoting Evan as being a “Crystal Child” and herself as being an “Indigo Mom”.


In May 2007 Jenny McCarthy announced that Evan was not a “Crystal Child” after all, but had been diagnosed with autism (there is a possibility that he may have been misdiagnosed). She holds on to the mistaken belief that Evan’s alleged autism was caused by his receiving childhood vaccines. Most anti-vaccination believers claim that the compound thimerosal led to an increase in autism cases. The Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine is their usual target. However, thimerosal was never used as a preservative in the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine. All vaccines licensed since 1999, with the exception of a few multidose container vaccines, have not contained thimerosal as a preservative. Autism has not declined since 1999, thereby scientifically disproving this connection. In addition, Jenny McCarthy's child, Evan, was not born until 2002, well after thimerosal had been removed from most childhood vaccines.


In June 2007 Jenny McCarthy began promoting anti-vaccination rhetoric. Because of her celebrity status she has appeared on several television shows and has published multiple books advising parents not to vaccinate their children. This has led to a dramatic increase in the number of vaccine preventable illnesses as well as an increase in the number of vaccine preventable deaths.


Jenny McCarthy has a body count attached to her name. This website will publish the total number of vaccine preventable illnesses and vaccine preventable deaths that have happened since June 2007 when she began publicly speaking out against vaccines.

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

[trotsky]

1. Ooh, this should be fun.

:popcorn:

[PA Democrat]

18. Oh yes, it's so much fun to bait parents of kids with autism and then ridicule them.

I personally don't subscribe to the thimerosal autism theory but think it's pretty fucking pathetic to get your jollies making fun of people who are desperate to help their kids.

Hey, you want to hear something even FUNNIER? You should see how much money parents are willing to spend on unproven and sometimes risky therapies in the hopes that perhaps it will help their child to say their first word, or to stop biting their arm hundreds of times a day, or to stop smearing their feces all over their room every night.

HAPPY AUTISM AWARENESS DAY EVERYONE!

Don't choke on your popcorn.

[trotsky]

19. BWAH HA HA HA

Even better! A self-righteous moralizing grandstander to liven up the party! Thank you so much!!

[PA Democrat]

20. No just someone capable of human empathy.

But if that's how you get your jollies, go for it.

[mzmolly]

23. Jenny McCarthy had her son fully vaccinated.

That little tid-bit seems to escape many? :(

[Hanse]

43. Yeah, her kids protected.

And she's trying to keep other parents from getting protected.

It's like the Pope telling Africans not to use condoms because they cause HIV.

[mzmolly]

63. She's trying to protect

other children from the fate her son suffered by advocating for safer vaccines. Much like Dr. Jon Polling a neurologist who was in denial until his own child became a casualty.

[Hanse]

73. No, she's not.

She's trying to get money, and hurt kids in the process.

[mzmolly]

112. Oh.

:eyes:

[varkam]

83. Which mischaraterizes the causation in the Poling case...

but don't let that stop you.

[trotsky]

90. The truth never does.

I see from the massive amount of "Ignored" posts on this thread that our favorite anti-vaccination spammer is hard at work again.

[mzmolly]

111. Not according to her father a neurologist, her mother an RN and her physician,

but don't let that stop YOU from regurgitating the official spin.

[varkam]

136. Not according to the actual court decision. But, again...

don't let that stop you.

[mzmolly]

138. Ah yes, the court did use the term "autism like symptoms" vs. "autism"

but let's not allow common sense to interfere with anything.

[varkam]

145. Except that's not what I was saying.

But don't let that stop you.

[alarimer]

93. For the last time, VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM!!!!

Jesus fucking Christ how ignorant are you to believe this?

Every single study has debunked this time and time again and, yet, ignorant people like Jenny McCarthy keep spouting that shit.

And, oh by the way, Andre Wakefield (the one who started all this nonsense) FAKED his data. He is a scientific fraud. I wish that were a crime also.

[mzmolly]

110. I see you've got your talking points down

pat. "Every single study" has not debunked "this." Further, the vaccine court has paid out damages to autistic children. Remove the big pharma blinders for a moment and apply common sense. Neurotoxins can cause neurological damage THUS THE NAME neurotoxin.

[varkam]

224. Hmm...

Remove the...well...whatever you want to call the blinders that you have on and smell the post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Further, the vaccine court has paid out damages to autistic children.

Are you going to expound on that at all? Didn't think so - cause if you did it would just undercut the point that you're trying to make.

Neurotoxins can cause neurological damage THUS THE NAME neurotoxin.

I lurve circular arguments.

[Stuckinthebush]

160. It's an interesting study in psychology, no?

People have a tendency to hold on to explanations that are invalid. Why is this? I think it is fascinating.

[mzmolly]

166. Fascinating

indeed.

[thegoodbyegirl]

231. You have one hell of a nerve...A mother who changed her son's diet

(after having him vaccinated, BTW) and SAW THE DIFFERENCE.

[trotsky]

87. Just to let you know,

I really, really appreciate being your target for demonization and distortion. You rock! :yourock:

[alarimer]

92. They are not helping their kids (or anyone else's) by denying vaccines.

They are KILLING people. So fuck their anti-science ignorance. IF only Jenny McCarthy could be charged with a crime. Fuck her and her ignorant bullshit. Notice that she claims to believe that vaccines are not safe, but she LOVES botox, one of the most deadly compounds out there. But, hey, science is good if it gets rid of your wrinkles but a few dead kids from measles or HiB is a-okay.

[PA Democrat]

102. My reaction is based upon the fact that ridicule and flame bait is not how to address the problem.

You don't convince someone of your viewpoint by making fun of them when they are in very real pain. Popcorn and commentary about how "fun" it will be start a flame war are not helpful.

I stated that I disagree with Jenny McCarthy. In fact I am published on the topic of the alarming amount of pseudoscience in autism treatment. The way forward is to provide people who deal with the very real challenges of raising a child with autism with access to services that will help them and help their child, to support additional funding for education and research.

There is not a single drug approved by the FDA for the treatment of autism. There are no scientifically validated medical interventions to treat autism. In fact, there are most likely many etiologies associated with the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders. One of the most effective and scientifically validated treatments for autism is intensive behavioral therapy. But the reality is that in most places in the US, parents will have to foot the bill to get this treatment for their child, and some kids make significant gains while others make relatively few gains. There is no way to know how your child will respond and the price tag puts it out of reach for the majority of families. In my state, we as parents worked to get funding for such programs but the reality is the growing number of kids in the system as well as the sorry state of the economy have resulted in a drastic reduction in services over the years. It is heartbreaking.

I have a child with autism and personally know hundreds of other families struggling to help their children every single day. I don't always agree with their treatment decisions but I would never ridicule their desperate efforts to help their children. If you spent some time in their homes, you would understand.

Yesterday was Autism Awareness Day. Threads like this are nothing more than ugly flame bait and denigrate the very real challenges faced by families every single day, and they do nothing to solve the problem.

[Junkdrawer]

103. +1 Great Rant. BTW: I think Big Pharma hired an inept PR firm....

and this campaign will backfire BIG TIME.

[lumberjack_jeff]

131. As it should. I find it intriguing that DUers can spot astroturf from a mile away

but not when it comes to pharma.

[mzmolly]

137. Agreed.

It's bizarre that some refuse to acknowledge we would be better served to remove controversial ingredients from vaccines, if for no other reason than they're CONTROVERSIAL.

[uppityperson]

177. You mean like their removing thimerosal from kid's vaccines?

"Most anti-vaccination believers claim that the compound thimerosal led to an increase in autism cases. The Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine is their usual target. However, thimerosal was never used as a preservative in the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine. All vaccines licensed since 1999, with the exception of a few multidose container vaccines, have not contained thimerosal as a preservative. Autism has not declined since 1999, thereby scientifically disproving this connection. In addition, Jenny McCarthy's child, Evan, was not born until 2002, well after thimerosal had been removed from most childhood vaccines."

[mzmolly]

187. A complete crock. Most people have not claimed that mercury

was the issue with the MMR vaccine. This is a common strawman used to distract from what has actually been questioned. Again, the reduction of mercury in vaccines did not involve a requirement that old lots be pulled off the proverbial shelf.

[varkam]

226. Ha!

This is a common strawman used to distract from what has actually been questioned.

It has been spoken!

:rofl:

[varkam]

225. Hmm...

I personally don't subscribe to the thimerosal autism theory but think it's pretty fucking pathetic to get your jollies making fun of people who are desperate to help their kids.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If someone really, truly, honestly believed that the only way to cure kids of a disease is to force-feed them lead paint chips, do you think that person would be deserving of ridicule? Do you think that same person is deserving of ridicule, especially in light of the fact that the science is pretty squarely against that person? Do you think that same person is deserving of ridicule when they are demonstrably harming the health of children?

I guess not.

Hey, you want to hear something even FUNNIER? You should see how much money parents are willing to spend on unproven and sometimes risky therapies in the hopes that perhaps it will help their child to say their first word, or to stop biting their arm hundreds of times a day, or to stop smearing their feces all over their room every night.

Like chelation therapy. If by all that you mean that it kills their autistic children, then yes, there are parents who have done that - thanks much to the medical advice of the likes of Jenny McCarthy. What's the phrase when there's a death toll that can be ascribed to someone? Ohhh...it's on the tip of my tongue...

[Orrex]

228. Great post!

:yourock:

[varkam]

233. No - *you* rock, friend.

:yourock: :fistbump:

[Name removed]

230. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dorian Gray]

144. you're telling me...

[trotsky]

149. Careful.

Now you're gonna be tarred as an evil monstrous human being just like me.

[Dorian Gray]

161. Evil and monstrous, yes...

Human????? No way!!!!


:evilgrin:

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. You should have posted this yesterday.

I could have added "Big Pharma Lobbyist" to my fake resume of DLC credentials, and really shilled up a storm for the legal drug pushers. :puke:

[Pale Blue Dot]

8. This "Big Pharma Lobbyist" and "DLCer"

is an English teacher who is practically a Marxist. In fact, just last week on DU I was told that I must have voted for McCain because I do not support Obama's economic policies.

Scientific evidence is scientific evidence.

[cliffordu]

3. OMFG...What a thread!!!

:popcorn:

Gift from the gods, I'd say....

[NeedleCast]

106. I'm planning my day around this thread

Hopefully we can fire up the breast-feeding thread to.

[Javaman]

173. I love these!

Pass the popcorn will you?

:popcorn:

[xchrom]

4. recommend

[NoodleyAppendage]

5. Tell you what....if thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is so harmless...let's inject you.

The ONLY reason for putting a mercury derivative in vaccines is to allow for multiple doses from a single vial (i.e., saving money for the drug/vaccine company). While thimerosal may not cause autism, it is a NEUROTOXIN. Why should we subject our children to a NEUROTOXIN for the sake of saving corporate dollars???? You know...cigarettes are not likely to kill our children either, so I guess the pediatrician would have no problem if I allowed my 2 year old to toke up in the doctor's office?

The issue is NOT autism...the issue is allowing a NEUROTOXIN to be injected in our children only to save a few bucks.

J

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. Thimerosal isn't in vaccines anymore (not since 2002, I believe), so that's a moot point. nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. Bullshit. Thimerosal is still in the flu vaccine. See the CDC link here.

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

J

[truedelphi]

15. Thanks Noodley

Additionally what we do with what we don't use up in the USA is simply to ship it over to foreign countries. The oral vaccine for polio that has been outlawed here is used in third world nations.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. Thimerosal was removed from all routine childhood vaccines in 2001 and the autism rate did what?

It increased. How is that possible if thimerosal was to blame?

David

[mzmolly]

25. It's too soon to tell if autism is increasing

or not. However, mercury is but one possibility as it relates to vaccination.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

28. Why is it too soon to tell?

[mzmolly]

30. For a couple reasons.

1. Vaccines containing mercury were used after the so called removal dates and 2. Children are often not diagnosed until they are challenged in school. Additionally, some who have examined the data have claimed we have seen a decline in autism. I believe it's too soon to tell if mercury played a role. And if the CDC continues to promote an annual flu jab in small children, that could muddy the waters as well.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. Kids born in 2001 should be in school by now.

Autism rates should have dropped dramatically after thimerosal was removed from all routine childhood vaccines if thimerosal was the primary cause.

David

[mzmolly]

34. Again

according to some, rates have declined. Additionally, old lots of vaccines were used for an undetermined period of time. And the flu jab has been promoted more heavily on an annual basis in recent years. Edited to add that trace amounts of mercury are still found in routinely used vaccines.

Also, I don't think many asserted that mercury was the "primary" cause of autism, just one of many potential environmental triggers.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. There shouldn't be a small decrease or data that's hard to interpret.

If thimerosal was the primary cause then the decrease should be huge. I never accused you of saying anything.

David

[mzmolly]

38. Unless mercury is completely removed from vaccines, we'd

have to know what amount of mercury is enough to push a child over the tipping point before we can say one way or another.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. The ever moving goalpost.

[mzmolly]

45. Indeed.

:hi:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Cheers.

:toast:

[varkam]

84. According to who rates have declined? eom

[mzmolly]

114. You appear to have issues

with the retention of information?

http://www.sacunion.com/pages/california/articles/5424/

LOS ANGELES—The number of new cases of autism in California has fallen for the first time in more than 10 years in what may be a bellwether for autism rates nationwide, according to new data compiled by the state Department of Developmental Services.

The total number of autistic children receiving special education services from the state continues to grow - bringing the current total to 28,046 - but the rate of increase peaked in 2002 and has dropped slightly since then.

California has the best reporting system for autism in the United States because it guarantees special education services for autistic children. Because of its tracking system, the state is generally considered a predictor of what is to come for the rest of the country.

Experts said, however, that they don’t know what’s causing the numbers to fall off.

And another consideration.

http://autismresearchandarticles.blogspot.com/2008/07/is-autism-american-disease-somali.html

# This information MIGHT also help explain why autism numbers in California (and Minnesota, for that matter), are still high. In California, between 2003 and 2007, the rate of autism among black and white children enrolled in the state's DDS program increased by 50%. But the rate among Asian children in the same period went up by 79%, and the rate among Hispanic kids increased by 84.2%. The growth rate was about 58% higher among Asian and Hispanic children than black and white children.

# One in four California residents are foreign born. The majority are from Mexico, Central America, China, Korea, the Philippines and other countries with high vaccination rates (Mexico's is about 92%) and that still use the full amount of thimerosal in shots. Many if not most of these children are routinely revaccinated upon entry into the United States.

Not to mention the entire premise that vaccines no longer contain mercury is false.

[varkam]

134. All I ask is for you to substantiate your claim...

and all of a sudden I have a problem with retention of information? Sweet.

[mzmolly]

140. It's the number

of times you've asked in various discussion that puzzles me.

[varkam]

146. Really? When?

When have I asked you for a substantiation of those who claim that autism is decreasing? I'll expect a nice, blue link. I asked because I was genuinely curious - but if you want to get nasty about it, I'm happy to do that, too.

[mzmolly]

147. You've asked for the studies

that support this conclusion. You've also asked other repetitive questions.

I will not dig up a link for you on this. We'll have to agree to disagree, again.

[varkam]

150. I see you're still you're sunshiny self.

That's good to know.

[mzmolly]

151. "Sunshine"

is a nickname of mine. Glad you noticed.

[varkam]

152. Is it an ironic nickname?

You know, like "Tiny"?

[mzmolly]

153. No, do people call you Tiny?

If so, I'm sorry to hear that Varkam.

[varkam]

154. Your sincerety is overwhelming.

Sunshine.

[mzmolly]

155. Thanks

Tiny. I appreciate your kind words under the circumstances. ;)

[varkam]

202. Aw, come on.

If you're going to insult me, at least come up with something creative!

[uppityperson]

178. "Vaccines containing mercury were used after the so called removal dates "

I'd like to see some proof of that allegation.

[mzmolly]

185. To clarify again, the substance has not been completely removed

from vaccines. You are aware that the flu jab contains mercury and a few others still contain trace amounts I presume? As to your curiosity about lots of mercury containing vaccines being used after mercury was reduced call the CDC and ask them ~ "Were old lots of mercury containing vaccines used after mercury was removed from various vaccines?" I believe the old lots were allowed to be used through 2006? Though, I can't say for certain.

[uppityperson]

186. "I believe"..."Though, I can't say for certain." Thank you. eom

[mzmolly]

188. I can't give you an exact date which does not negate the greater point.

I read a while ago that in 2006 California demanded old products be removed from the shelves? But again, I'll let you do a smattering of your own research. It's possible the dates vary by state? That said, I stand by my assertion that old lots remained in use for a time after the reduction of mercury containing vaccines.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

207. Ah, the old "I read somewhere that someone said something that might back me up so fuck you" line

I love that argument - it's almost as helpful as real science.

[mzmolly]

211. Vs. the old I haven't read the conversation so I don't understand the context

but I'll pretend to noting some jibberish about "real science". I love that argument - it's almost as helpful as having a valid point.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

216. I read the conversation

What's odd is that you, who were half of the conversation, seem to know little about its context yourself.

You remind me of my cat, who when threatened with something scary like the vacuum cleaner sticks his head under the pillow. Kinda a feline version of "la-la-la, I can't hear you".

[mzmolly]

218. The hope that if you repeat

a lie, someone will believe it apparently?

Here is a statement from Safeminds on the subject I eluded to:

Second, although the U.S. recommendation for the reduction or elimination of thimerosal
from infant vaccines was announced in 1999, the removal has been gradual, incomplete,
and not quantified. We still do not know how inventory was stockpiled in advance of the
transition to thimerosal-free vaccines, how long vaccines stayed in the supply chain
subsequent to the stated plan to remove thimerosal from vaccines, and how expiration
date policy was handled. We should remember that thimerosal-containing vaccines were
never recalled and so were administered to infants for years after their removal was
mandated. The U.S. FDA continued to allow the release of lots of thimerosal preserved
infant vaccines for several years, at least into 2001. Infant vaccines such as the
Diphtheria-Tetanus still contain thimerosal. Safe Minds has received reports that infants
continued to be administered thimerosal preserved vaccines as late as 2003. Influenza
vaccine, the majority of which continues to contain thimerosal, was added to the list of
routinely recommended vaccines for not only pregnant women, but also infants starting at
6 months of age, beginning in 2004.

http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/press_releases/Response%20to%20CA%20DDA%20Autism%20Case%20Report%2001-18-05.pdf

[varkam]

203. It's an article of faith. eom

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

220. Who made vaccines with 5 year expiration dates?

[mzmolly]

223. See post # 218.

Vaccines have differing shelf lives depending. To my understanding the range is 12 months to "at least 3 years".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

235. Ok so at the latest there should have no thimerosal in routine childhood vaccines by 2004.

[truedelphi]

14. And also, all this hype about the fact hat there is NO proof of

Vaccines causing autism, well, is there any proof that vaccines are safe?

Wakefield did some excellent work on this issue. He has been slandered and his reputation has been destroyed. He never even suggested that people not receive vaccinations - he simply offered up that it was much safer to give the shots singly rather than in complex doses. The only reason for giving two or more shots in a single day is for the convenience of the doctor's office.

Then recently we had a court case involving autism come up that dismissed the plaintiffs. A court case proves nothing. The witnesses for the plaintiffs were extrremely weak and my guess is that another set of parents, with more money and better witnesses, could just as easily get the judge ruling on the new evidence to say that the plaintiffs do have a reason to seek damages fees from the vaccine manufacturer.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Didn't Wakefield make up some of his data?

[mzmolly]

36. Not according to Wakefield.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3346281/the-witchhunt-against-andrew-wakefield.thtml

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

81. And you believe him?

In February 2009, The Sunday Times reported that a further investigation by the newspaper had revealed that Wakefield "changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism", citing evidence obtained by the newspaper from medical records and interviews with witnesses, and supported by evidence presented to the GMC. The newspaper went on to state that the rates of inoculation fell from 92% (very slightly below measles herd immunity) to below 80% after the publication of Wakefield's study, and that confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales have risen from 56 in 1998 to 1348 in 2008, with two child fatalities.

wikipedia

[mzmolly]

115. Wakefield responded to the Sunday times in the link I provided.

I don't believe him or disbelieve him. I'm neutral. But I do find it remarkable that anyone who questions the use of neurotoxins and carcinogens in vaccines is essentially abused and considered crazy.

Black is white, up is down, carcinogens are safe, neurotoxins don't cause brain damage ...

[truedelphi]

77. Oh go make up your bed

And that's it for now, you are officially Mr Ignore to me!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

80. For asking a question, my aren't we open minded.

[alarimer]

95. He has not been slandered, HE FAKED THE DATA.

He is a fucking fraud.

That is not "excellent" work.

That court case was dismissed for LACK OF EVIDENCE. It happens all the damn time. And in this case was absolutely correct.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT VACCINES OR ANYTHING IN VACCINES CAUSES AUTISM. And they ARE safe. Certainly much safer than the diseases they prevent. Kids no longer die in huge numbers before age 5, for one thing. They eradicated polio (I dare to claim those vaccines aren't safe to someone with post-polio syndrome- I hope they hit you with their canes.) and smallpox. Measles can be fatal and often was. Withholding vaccines is causing actual people to die.

[AngryAmish]

99. Water is also a NEUROTOXIN!!!11!!!

Why do I even bother? What is the point trying to get through to these nutters?

[uppityperson]

179. But water is NATURAL and could never hurt you!

:sarcasm: just in case

[Skip Intro]

7. What the fuck. The all-powerful JM is wasting kids by the minute? Is this a joke?

[Iris]

122. just what I was thinking. She's single-handedly responsible for this?

[nxylas]

143. We've no way of knowing how many of those deaths were caused by Jenny McCarthy

Every one of those kids died because Jenny McCarthy went on TV and promoted anti-vaccination theories? I suspect the fact that basic healthcare needs are unaffordable for many in this country due to our fucked-up healthcare system may have had something to do with it too.

[Iris]

205. well, this controversy has been going on for much longer than she's even been a mom

[aikoaiko]

10. It hard to blame her. She's just a celebrity who had a child with troubles

and she was desperate like all parents of children with developmental delays to attribute them to a cause and find a make things better.

I truly empathize.

But in the end she should be held accountable for what she promoted.

[mzmolly]

26. She promotes

safer vaccines.

[aikoaiko]

27. What's wrong with the vaccines used today?

[mzmolly]

31. IMO, the use of known neurotoxins, and carcinogens

among other things.

[aikoaiko]

35. I welcome citations to studies showing neurotoxicity and cancer from the amounts in

in vaccinations.

[mzmolly]

44. I welcome citations of studies showing that neurotoxins and carcinogens

are safe in any amount.

Formaldehyde has been classified as a human carcinogen (cancer-causing substance) by the International Agency for Research on Cancer and as a known human carcinogen by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/risk/formaldehyde

Mercury is a neurotoxin. ... When mothers with no symptoms of nervous system damage gave birth to infants with severe disabilities, it became clear that the developing fetal nervous system is more vulnerable to methylmercury than is an adult's nervous system.

I'd prefer my vaccines free of carcinogens and neurotoxins, silly me.

http://epa.gov/mercury/health.htm

[Hanse]

50. The human body produces its own formaldehyde.

And in amounts far greater than that found in vaccines.

As for mercury, I doubt you're scared enough to give up eating fish.

[mzmolly]

59. I don't eat fish.

And I feed it to my child in small amounts. Also, some substances that cause our bodies to produce formaldehyde have also been linked to cancer. Alcohol for example.

[Hanse]

61. You feed mercury to your kids?

Wouldn't that make you an enormous hypocrite?

[mzmolly]

64. Less so than the CDC

who acknowledge that formaldehyde is a carcinogen yet endorse its use in the production of childhood vaccines in spite of that fact. Akin to global warming denial if you ask me.

[Hanse]

66. That's because the CDC understands basic science.

The presence of formaldehyde doesn't cause cancer, high concentrations of formaldehyde cause cancer.

That's, what, 13th century chemistry?

Your body is producing formaldehyde right now, naturally, and it amounts far more than in vaccines.

[mzmolly]

69. The CDC says

that there is no known safe level of exposure to formaldehyde.

As for what the body produces, one doesn't know if our bodies react the same to the natural formaldehyde produced by our bodies as we do to that which is injected or ingested or inhaled etc. We also don't know how each individual reacts to X amount of the substance. Some may be more vulnerable to the potential carcinogenic effects than others.

Wanted to respond to your latest post before signing off.

[Hanse]

71. There are safe levels of formaldehyde.

The levels of formaldehyde the body produces is safe. In fact, it's necessary for us to live.

The levels of formaldehyde found in vaccines is safe. And the CDC agrees, since they're pro-vaccine.

"As for what the body produces, one doesn't know if our bodies react the same to the natural formaldehyde produced by our bodies as we do to that which is injected or ingested or inhaled etc."

One does know. They're the exact same molecule. The body does not distingusih between formaldehyde produced in the body and that injected in vaccines. It is the exact same thing.

"We also don't know how each individual reacts to X amount of the substance. Some may be more vulnerable to the potential carcinogenic effects than others."

Yes, we do. Since every human being produces far more formaldehyde that what's in vaccines, we know that it's safe for everybody.

[mzmolly]

76. Wrong.

Again, an in-depth reply in the am.

[mzmolly]

120. The CDC has stated in the past, that there are no known safe levels of exposure to formaldehyde.

To respond to your assertion that formaldehyde is safe to inject into infants ~

One the top formaldehyde researchers in the country, Jack Thrasher, Ph.D., Toxicologist, Immunotoxicologist, Fetal toxicologist,
says recent peer reviewed published research has demonstrated some pertinent information: "It has demonstrated that certain genes are responsible for the metabolism and detoxification of formaldehyde. Some humans have abnormalities in these genes and are more susceptible to the adverse effects of formaldehyde. Therefore, there can be no safe standards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23168160/

In addition to causing respiratory ailments, formaldehyde is considered a human carcinogen, or cancer-causing substance, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer and a probable human carcinogen by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

http://www.toxictrailers.org/2008/07/no-safe-level-of-formaldehyde-because.html

[Hanse]

168. Jack Thrasher, the MCS quack?

Wow, impeachable source there.

:crazy:

"In addition to causing respiratory ailments, formaldehyde is considered a human carcinogen, or cancer-causing substance, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer and a probable human carcinogen by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency."

The EPA considers sunlight a known human carcinogen.

That doesn't mean there aren't safe levels.

[mzmolly]

172. No, Dr. Jack D. Thrasher, PhD., "Toxicologist, Immunotoxicologist,

Fetal Toxicologist."

Also, fair adults and children are advised to use sunscreen. We can't alter the carcinogenic properties of the sun, but we can choose to protect ourselves from sunburn and skin cancer. We can also choose a different method of manufacturing vaccines.

As to the "safe" amounts of carcinogens assertion, I'll defer to the expert vs. an anonymous quack claiming various credentials, whom I met on the internet. Though, I would be interested in seeing the scientific evidence to support your assertion that the substance has been proven safe to inject into infants. You know, so I can contrast your data to that of Dr. Thrasher.

Edited to add Dr. Thrashers Resume given you've decided to smear him.

EDUCATION
California State University, Long Beach, CA. Zool/Chem, B.S., 1959
University of California, School of Medicine, Los Angeles, CA. Human Anatomy/Cell
Biology, Ph.D., 1964

PROFESSIONAL EXPERENCE
1964-1966: Assistant Professor, Department of Anatomy, School of Medicine,
University of Colorado, Denver, CO.

Teaching: Human Anatomy, Histology, Embryology, Physiology and Cell Biology
Research: Cell Biology

1966-1972: Assistant Professor, Department of Anatomy, School of Medicine,
University of California, Los Angeles, CA.

Teaching: Human Anatomy, Histology and Embryology, Cell Biology
Research: Cell Biology: Effects of aging, air pollutants, environmental radiation
and organo-mercurial compounds.

1973-1975: Application Specialist and Project Manager, Ultra Pure Water
Systems, Millipore Corp, Bedford, MA.

1975-1976: Consultant: Chief of Toxicology, Applied Biological Sciences
Laboratory, Glendale, CA.

1975-1976: Consultant: Toxicology, Alchem Laboratory, Marina del Ray, CA.

1975-1984: Consultant: Safety and Efficacy of Medical Devices, Drugs and
Cosmetics, Los Angeles, CA.

1978-1980: Director of Regulatory Affairs: Safety and Efficacy of Cardiac
Pacemakers. American Technology, Northridge, CA.

1984 to Current: Consultant and Expert Witness - Environmental Toxicology and
Immunotoxicology. Northridge, CA and Alto, N.Mex. Human Health Effects.
Research, Library Research, Consulting and Testimony.

1988 to 1994: Consultant to Antibody Assay Laboratories, Santa Ana, CA

1989 to 1996: Mentor: School of Health and Human Services, Columbia Pacific
University, San Rafael, CA.

1990-1995: C.E.O. International Institute of Research for Chemical
Hypersensitivity (INRCH), Northridge, CA and Alto, NM

1993-1994: Editor-in-Chief, Informed Consent, INRCH, Publisher.

1993 to 1996: Faculty. Eastern New Mexico University, Ruidoso, NM

1994 to Current: Advisory Committee, Chemical Impact Project, Tides
Foundation, Mill Valley, CA.

2002 to Current: Recent Consultation to:
Immunosciences Lab, Inc., Beverly Hills, CA.
Progressive Health Care, Benson, AZ
Center for Immune and Toxic Disorders, Spring, TX
State Of New Mexico, Department of Health, Expert in Mold Inspections
Real Time Laboratories, LLC, Dallas, TX – Medical Director
Consulting Services to Treating Physicians – Nation Wide
Consulting services to ChemWatch
West Coast Energy Project, Edmonton, Canada
Light Brown Apple Moth infestation, Monterey and Santa Cruz Counties, CA

2007 to Current: Technical Director
National Toxic Encephalopathy Foundation, Las Vegas, NV
Representative Chemicals: Formaldehyde (Trailers and Mobile Homes), Organophosphate
Pesticides, Chlorinated Pesticides, Herbicides, Pyrethrins, Solvents
(Aromatic, Gasoline, Paint Thinners, Chlorinated), Indoor Air , New Carpeting,
Smog, Heavy Metals, Methyl Bromide, Isocyanates, Silicone Breast Implants,
Industrial Air Pollution, Ground Water Contamination, Hydrogen Sulfide (Sewer
gas, concentrated animal feed organization, Oil & Gas Fields, Waste Treatment
Plants), Organo-Sulfur Compounds, Paints (Solvent and Water Based), Ammonia
and Ammonium Compounds, Mold, Mycotoxins, Indoor Environment resulting from
water intrusion, Cosmetics, Fragrances, Asbestos, Coumarin, Benzophenone-2,
Benzene, Limonene (d & l), Linalool etc.
Development and Organization of Websites on Toxic Exposures
Mold and the Environment: Updating of Peer Reviewed Literature
http://www.moldenvironment.com/main/index.php

Scientific Societies and Organization Memberships
American Association of Anatomists (1964-1972)
American Society of Cell Biology (1964-1972)
American Association for the Advancement of Science
American Academy of Environmental Medicine
Consultant to: Childscreen Professionals on Autism.
Medical Science Monitor International Reviewers Panel (IRP)
Moderator: Environmental Toxins Foundation, UK
Participating Organization: Collaborative on Health and the Environment, USA
Society of Toxicology (SOT)
Speaker: American Environmental Health Foundation, Dallas Texas, June, 2004

RECOGNITION: Committees and Research Presentations by Invitation.
Who's Who in Medicine and Healthcare
Who's Who In Science
Advisory Panel and Investigator. Safety and Efficacy of Root Canal Medicaments.
Food and Drug Administration and the American Endodontics Society, 1975.
5th International Conference on Indoor Air Quality, Toronto, Canada, 1990
Second Annual Meeting of the International Society for Environmental
Epidemiology. Berkeley, CA 1990.
Disabilities. Senator Milton Marks, Chairman, California Legislature. 1994-1996.
IFC/Arnold O. Beckman European Conference on the Environment, July, 1995.
Advisory Panel. Access for People with Environmental Illness/Multiple Chemical
Sensitivity and Other Related Advisory Committee. Medical Outreach Committee
of the No-spray Coalition. New York, N.Y. 1999-2000.
22nd Annual International Symposium, June 24-27, Dallas, TX. “Environmental
Aspects of Inflammation. Cosponsored by AEFF and AAEM. Speaker and Faculty
Member.

Panelist and Participant in Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Case Definition Workshop.
Double Tree Hotel, San Francisco Airport, Burlingame, CA. Sponsored by the
Chemical Injury Information Network, White Sulphur Springs, MT. August 4-5,2006
Advisory Panel Expert at Legislative Education: Overview of The Complexity of
the Indoor Environment.. Washington DC, 2007.

RESEARCH PAPERS can be found at http://www.drthrasher.org/CVJACK.pdf">LINK

Amazing what counts for a "quack" these days.

[Medusa]

91. You won't eat it but it's okay for your kids to eat?

"in small amounts"? :crazy:

[mzmolly]

121. I don't LIKE

fish, my child does. :eyes: However, I AM thoughtful about the amounts and the kind of fish she consumes.

[aikoaiko]

123. Lots of dangerous substances do no harm in small amounts.

Heck, the little grill marks on hotdogs are carcinogenic.

You even let your kid eat fish (presumably with mercury), but its ok in small amounts.

[mzmolly]

125. The nitrates in hotdogs

are more so. Thus, I limit our consumption of hotdogs. However I prefer organic, nitrate free hotdogs. I'm glad they're available.

[Hanse]

39. Her child is fine, he doesn't have autism.

She claims she "cured" his autism with her special magical diet, and she's selling the cure-all in a book to other dumb parents.

The only thing wrong with the kid is his mother's mentally unbalanced.

[mzmolly]

49. He was diagnosed with autism.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/jenny.autism/index.html

[Hanse]

56. According to the word of an established liar.

She's now claiming he doesn't have autism, and will sell you the cure for a fee.

[mzmolly]

60. According to his Dr.

who has been on Larry King with Ms. McCarthy. She's donating the proceeds of her book to my understanding?

[aikoaiko]

108. I know, but at the time it wasn't clear what was going on at first (as it is in many cases)

I haven't read her book, but I often hear it described as her wanting to share how her nurtritional regime brought her kid back from autism (as you mentioned). I don't know if that is exactly what she claims, but that is how her book is promoted.

[Iggo]

11. She's purdy and she looks good naked.

I didn't even know she had a kid. He's not in any of her naked pictures.

[dysfunctional press]

58. no...

she looks REAL good naked.

[Iggo]

98. Ah, yes.

I apologize for not being clear.

She looks REAL good naked!:thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

180. TTINGWAP. GICGRTHTDFSRTF

this topic is no good without a picture. Guess I can google rather than having this deleted for smut rather than flames.

[PM Martin]

12. Ms. McCarthy has a lawsuit here.

To single her out and blame her for people's individual choices is absurd.
This should qualify as slander.

[Quantess]

55. I remember her saying that parents SHOULD vaccinate their children

but only one vaccine at a time, and to get the minimum dosage possible, or something like that. And to ask the doctor a lot of questions, and demand that they contain minimal thimerosal.

But anyway, I distinctly remember Jenny McCarthy clarifying that she was not telling parents not to vaccinate.

[PM Martin]

74. One vaccine at a time, yes indeed.

[Skip Intro]

13. I can't believe DUers are falling for this half-assed bullshit.

The counts don't in any way compare death/illness rates to before/after the evil JM, yet all but claim to be scientific.

It's a bullshit scheme using incomplete statistics to appear to make prove a point it doesn't even come close to proving. The site reports statistics from June, 2007 when JM "began publicly speaking out against vaccines," but provides no data from before that date for comparison to, for example, show a rise in deaths and illnesses since the all-powerful JM decided to have an opinion and speak it.

It's a total bullshit hit piece of a site.

I can't believe people on my beloved DU could be so easily fooled.

[burning rain]

16. Maybe the site was set up.....

by a guy bitter over not being part of Jenny McCarthy's body count in a very different way!

[mzmolly]

22. Unfortunately

I believe it. We have a rabid religious movement here in which vaccination is the God who is never to be questioned.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

208. Can you point to a single instance of pro-vaccination posters

saying that vaccines should never be questioned and that they are 100% safe?

[mzmolly]

212. LOL, I'll allow the statements from the never question vaccination

crowd to stand as is. However, while we're on the subject, I'll invite you to share your concerns regarding vaccination. Got any?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

215. Can you answer the question or not?

If we're as bad as you say, this should be an easy task for someone as learned as you.

[mzmolly]

219. You're asking me to provide a specific quote that denotes an exact statement to the effect

"I have never questioned a vaccine ever" which is of course, absurd. Again, I let the record of conversation speak for itself and I invite you to prove me wrong. Do you have one quote from yourself here, in which you've questioned any vaccine, ever? Just one, and I'll scratch you off the group think list. ;)

[EvolveOrConvolve]

227. You can answer the question, can't you?

You posted the ridiculous assertion, so please back it up. Instead of trying to answer a question with a question, get me the information to back up your words.

[Hanse]

40. There are a lot of loony people on this site.

I think the 9-11 forum attracts them.

It's a shame. You go for a long time thinking the person you're talking to is rational, then they go on about how nukes brought down the WTC, how aliens are causing chemtrails, and how vaccines cause autism and cancer.

[mzmolly]

46. You have that last sentence wrong.

It should read ~ and how... neurotoxins and carcinogens are no longer classified as such if they're in a vaccine.

[Hanse]

48. Thanks for illustrating my point.

That's probably what chemtrails are made out of.

Aerosolized vaccines.

[mzmolly]

51. I don't subscribe

to chemtrail theory. Chemtrails and nuclear blasts on 911 are just a couple more dangling strawman for the zealots to grapple onto when common sense fails.

[Hanse]

52. Chemtrails, vaccines/autism, bigfoot...

It's all the same shit.

[mzmolly]

53. Uh

huh. :eyes:

[Hanse]

54. loch ness monster, creationism, astrology,

gays being child molestors, global warming denial, HIV not causing AIDS, holocaust not really happening...

[mzmolly]

62. None of which have anything

to do with this conversation other than the fact that certain religious zealots like to bring them up when all else fails.

[Hanse]

65. Sure they do.

They involve extremist zealots who make claims based on their own beliefs rather than facts, and put innocent people in danger in the process.

Well, maybe not the loch ness monster believers.

[mzmolly]

67. On this we agree.

Fact: Formaldehyde is a carcinogen
Fact: Mercury is a neurotoxin
Fact: Both are used in the manufacture of vaccines given to infants and children in order to supposedly preserve health
Fact: Zealots demand that we believe formaldehyde is safe if it's used in a vaccine
Fact: Zealots demand that we ignore mercury and aluminum are neurotoxins if they're used in a vaccine
Fact: We have record high vaccination coverage levels in the US today ~ Jenny McCarthy has not caused a decline in vaccination rates

Goodnight :hi:

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

75. I'll reply to

your ridiculous assertions with facts tomorrow.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trotsky]

119. Typhoid Mary was far more of a jerk. n/t

[mzmolly]

126. I expect said tough person is actually more than

one person here?

The over the top abuse and bullying do not help their cause eh?

I agree :rofl:

[dionysus]

129. how do you sleep at night with all that blood on your hands?

i find that sleeping covered in blood is good if you have dry skin problems, it is better than lotion.

:silly:

[mzmolly]

132. I bathe in the blood of virgins which helps me relax before bed. But I do demand they're up to date

on their vaccines first. Especially the adult Tdap booster. ;)

[mzmolly]

124. I've addressed your made up facts about formaldehyde above.

Edited for grammar.

As to who understands what. I understand that the SCIENCE indicates that formaldehyde is carcinogenic and aluminum and mercury are neurotoxins.

What are your scientific credentials?

As to the lie about anyone having blood on their hands here is what the SCIENTIFIC data indicates:

http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20080904/childhood-vaccination-rates-high

Sept. 4, 2008 -- Childhood vaccination rates are at or near record highs, the CDC announced today.

Most parents are vaccinating their kids, with less than 1% of children not getting any vaccines by age 19-35 months, according to a new CDC report.

Jenny McCarthy has not impacted vaccination rates ONE SLIGHT BIT, unless you care to credit her with an INCREASE in compliance. And to suggest that I have is even more absurd. But, I'm used to such nonsense from the big pharma bully brigade here.

It is not I who has blood on my hands. It's the people who FIGHT AGAINST common sense change to an archaic vaccine production standard.

Why not remove neurotoxins and carcinogens from vaccines?

[merh]

158. What's wrong with advocating safe vaccines and a safe time line

to give them to children.

It was my small pox/chick pox/measles vaccine when I was 23 months old that caused my life time struggles with the herpes virus. I've grown accustomed to the symptoms but now I read that there is a link between herpes and Alzheimers.

Who ever created this website is one sick piece of shit - probably funded by the pharmaceutical companies. And yes, big pharmacy doesn't give a rat's ass about us, they just want to be rich.

[mzmolly]

165. I hear ya!

I am among those with sensitivities to formaldehyde. I worked with the substance and developed what amounts to rashes and allergies. I get physically ill if I'm around it in new furniture, carpet etc. without proper ventilation.

The website is yet another example that one can't question the sacred cow without being smeared. The odd thing is, it's not even "OK" to suggest improving vaccination without being essentially called a murderer. Bizarre, to be sure! :crazy: Group think is a powerful thing.

[BrklynLiberal]

167. It would e interesting to search out the funding for that website....

[EvolveOrConvolve]

209. What's wrong with letting the scientists and doctors

and other experts decide the safety and time-lines for vaccinations rather than some hysterical mother on the internet who happens to have nice tits? I don't fucking get it - would you let a car salesman perform brain surgery on you? Why not, he has a head and a skull and a brain - shouldn't he know everything he needs to know, just like Jenny McCarthy?

[mzmolly]

213. Do you suggest that Doctors and Scientists have not shared

such concerns?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

214. I'm saying that I would rather that

doctor's and scientists (who have, by a large margin decided that vaccines are a good thing) make the decisions that they are educated to make. Would you rather have a pinup model making your children's health decisions for you?

[mzmolly]

217. I haven't seen any "evidence" that parents are allowing McCarthy

to make medical decisions on their behalf.

[Hanse]

169. No, you didn't, you completely ignored them.

"What are your scientific credentials?"

PhD, natural products and medicinal chemistry.

You?

"As to the lie about anyone having blood on their hands here is what the SCIENTIFIC data indicates"

The scientific data indicates that vaccines don't cause autism, and failure to vaccinate kills children.

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/MeaslesUpdate/

[mzmolly]

174. So you're paid by the pharma industry. Perhaps this explains why you sugggest those who disagree

with you are all quacks? Quacks assert that vaccination rates have declined (due to Jenny McCarthy mind you) in spite of evidence to the contrary.

I've ignored nothing. I noted that scientific data show formaldehyde to be a carcinogen and mercury to be a neurotoxin. The data also points to the fact that each person may process these substances in a unique fashion. I quoted an expert in the study of such substances who has researched their effects on the human body, and you're only response was the typical "he is a quack" smear.

Further, the Hannah Poling ruling determined that vaccination led to "autism like symptoms" in the child thus the payment of monies to the family. She's not the only autistic child to be paid as a result of vaccine injury. Sadly, vaccination has also resulted in death. That's something you'd rather not discuss I imagine? However, given we have an expert here, I have a few questions if you don't mind? ... I am curious what a person of your scientific stature thinks causes a vaccine related death? What is the mechanism involved in your opinion? Do you consider every death related to vaccination an "allergic" reaction? Or are their other factors at play? Also, in such instances, was the vaccine "safe" for the child who perished at the hands of a vaccine? Are measles considered "safe" for a child, who like most, recovers completely?

Like McCarthy, I'd rather not choose between autism and measles or pertussis and so on. But if I had to, I'd take my chance on measles over austism. Though, I'd simply prefer safer vaccines vs. the ridiculous assertion that vaccines needn't be improved upon no matter what we discover about their manufacture over the course of decades.

edited for grammar and to add a few questions.

[uppityperson]

183. "PhD, natural products and medicinal chemistry"=paid by pharma industry?

good grief. Why is that accusation fallen back on so often?

[mzmolly]

189. Ah yep.

For example.

The Division of Medicinal and Natural Products Chemistry educates Ph.D. students and postdoctoral fellows in the chemistry and biology of drug discovery. We offer an interdisciplinary course of study and world class faculty with leading edge research projects resulting in a quality education and rewarding careers in the pharmaceutical industry and academia.

[uppityperson]

192. Ah. Rather like I am a nurse making $65/hour as a neonatal intensive care nurse?

since my nursing school could result in a quality education and rewarding careers such as that?

Wrong. Just because someone has credentials in"PhD, natural products and medicinal chemistry" does not mean they work for the pharmaceutical industry. Just because someone with credentials in computer programming does not mean they work for Microsoft.

For example.

[mzmolly]

194. I assume that those who pursue a PHD work in a related field? You appeared to question that?

However, I'll await a reply from the party in question.

[uppityperson]

197. No, not everyone with a PHD works in a narrow field just because they can.

I am thinking you like to argue. Are you a virgo? I am. Nitpicky and all.

[mzmolly]

200. LOL

Gemini. But my Mom always said I like to argue. She was right. ;) I do. And, I don't take much personally either. Unless someone suggests I'm a murderer for trying to improve vaccination because I actually care about children. I tend not to like that.

Peace

[uppityperson]

182. Fact: zealots believe in dichotomous thinking

[mzmolly]

190. Indeed.

"Formaldehyde is a carcinogen, unless it's in a vaccine" is a prime example.

[uppityperson]

193. As is ""Formaldehyde is always a carcinogen". Thanks for the examples

[mzmolly]

195. LOL. Well, carcinogens ARE carcinogens.

Thus I thank YOU for another example. ;)

[uppityperson]

196. Dose related. Perhaps you have missed that.

[mzmolly]

198. Nope.

But I have indicated the obvious which is "safe dosage" amounts vary from person to person thus no safe amount can be determined. Begs the question, why not use another substance?

[uppityperson]

199. dose related="safe dosage" amounts

ah well, think I'm done here since this is getting silly

[mzmolly]

201. Makes two of us.

I've spent far too much time on this subject. Unfortunately I find it intriguing.

Have a nice evening UP. :hi:

[semillama]

204. well, to be fair

There IS more evidence for Bigfoot than the vaccine/autism link. At least there's footprints...

[uppityperson]

181. Did

aerosolized vaccine chemtrails bring down the WTCs?

[Marr]

68. It is strange, isn't it?

It's certainly not just this site, in my experience. It seems like half the time I meet someone with whom I agree politically, they eventually wander into subjects like 'aliens built the pyramids'.

[fascisthunter]

156. You Mean Like Yourself, right?

and you have yet to convince me that your info is factual. I've seen plenty of responses on this thread handing you your ass on a platter with info that has been backed-up and verified. You have not. ALl you have done is attack people on a personal basis, and I'm wondering if the good people just don't bother alert on you.

[Stuckinthebush]

162. Whoa buckaroo!

I was with you until you started questioning the aliens/chem-trails theory. Those aliens are sneaky.


:D

[mzmolly]

21. What a crock. Where is the "about us" page? Why is the author of the propaganda site hiding?

In tabulating "vaccine preventable illness" data, the CDC does not claim that a person who dies of XYZ was not vaccinated. The CDC does not mention vaccination status when they tally deaths due to so called VPI. In fact, said deaths could be due to vaccine failure.

Also Jenny McCarthy had her son fully VACCINATED, thus his autism (according to his Dr.) However, I'll let Ms. McCarthy respond to this absurdity for herself:

"If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it's their f___ing fault that the diseases are coming back. They're making a product that's s___. If you give us a safe vaccine, we'll use it. It shouldn't be polio versus autism."


To which I say HEAR HEAR!

Additionally, vaccination compliance rates are at an all time high in this country, so if diseases are making a comeback, I suggest demanding a refund from Merck, rather than blaming the mother of an autistic child.

Link to Jenny McCarthy's recent Time Magazine interview: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1888718,00.html

[Junkdrawer]

88. They are also blocking whois with a contactprivacy.com registration...

Clearly this is a deep-pocket funded smear that is afraid of a slander lawsuit.

[mzmolly]

127. Could be.

One lacking in complete fact besides. ;)

[fascisthunter]

157. BINGO!

[Canuckistanian]

24. Nobody ever died from autism

However, non-immunized children die every day.

Disclaimer:
My 12 year old son is autistic - and it hasn't diminished his life in any way. He's just "different".

[mzmolly]

32. Seizures related to autism, and self injurious behaviors

among other issues, can play a role in mortality.

[Hanse]

41. Jenny McCarthy won a major award for her work.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/500-pigasus-awards-for-2008-announced.html

[depakid]

70. She's in "good company"

Pigasus Awards for 2008 Announced

Every year, on the appropriate date of April 1, the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) gives out the Pigasus Awards, a dubious honor to people or organizations that have done their best in the past year to snuff out science and promote irrationality. The award is named after the beloved mascot of the JREF because, after all, when paranormal powers are proven, pigs will fly.

The five categories of the Pigasus Award are:

1. To the Scientist who said or did the silliest thing relating to occult, supernatural, or paranormal subjects in the preceding twelve months.

2. To the Funding Organization that supports the most useless study related to the occult, supernatural, or paranormal during the year.

3. To the Media outlet that reported as fact the most outrageous occult, supernatural, or paranormal claim.

4. To the Performer who fooled the greatest number of people with the least effort in that twelve-month period.

5. For the most persistent refusal to face reality.

This year's (dis)honorees are:

1) Dr. Colin Ross, who claims he can shoot electromagnetic radiation from his eyes;

2) The Producers of the movie "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed";

3) Late night cable TV stations;

4) Jenny McCarthy; who has written books and appeared on countless TV shows promoting measles; and

5) Kevin Trudeau; who sold quack books even after the government fined him for it.

[dysfunctional press]

57. to be fair- she may be part of the 'cause'...but she's hardly the only one.

whoever started that website is giving her WAY too much credit on that front.
maybe a disgruntled stalker-type?

[truedelphi]

78. I hold a different sort of Corporate minded profit seekers guilty of a body count

One in one hundred and fifty children is now diagnosed with autism.

And there are multiple causes, I imagine. but after watching six hours of testimony when Senator Dan Burton assembled his government Oversight Committee (in the 1990's) to review vaccinations, I was struck by the diligence of Andrew Wakefield.

Here is partial defense of his work by the man himself:
W: The diagnoses reported in the Lancet were accurate based upon the information provided to the clinicians and review of the available records. (I) Where there was considered to be a pre-existing developmental problem, this was accurately reported in the Lancet paper. (II) This is not the place to get into a detailed discussion on developmental regression which is still a subject of debate

experts in child development and is certainly not something about which Deer has any expertise.

It is a matter of fact that I did not play any part whatsoever in making the microscopic diagnoses of inflammation on any biopsy from any child investigated at the Royal Free Hospital. Intestinal tissues were examined, and the children’s pathology documented, by two doctors (not me) employed in the Department of Histopathology who were experienced in bowel disease, using an agreed protocol to ensure rigor and consistency . These doctors were co-authors on the paper. The same tissues were reviewed by Professor Walker-Smith and his team. I merely entered the documented findings into the Lancet paper. I did not “change” any findings as alleged. The paper was then reviewed by the relevant authors prior to submission to the Lancet in order to confirm that the diagnoses were correct. The findings reported in the Lancet are, in the opinion of the relevant authors, correct. This is a matter of record at the GMC.

Parents who came before this Senate Oversight Committee often expressed their gratitude to Wakefiled for his investigations. We do know certain things - it is not a genetic phenomena - one of the participants that day was a mother of twins. Both children had the same immunizations, but one of the twins was sick the day of his vaccines and became autistic while the twin who was healthy on the day of the vaccination remained healthy.

We are witnessing an entire generation of Americans who are skewed in their understanding of what science is. Just as the Chicago School controlled the lexicon of what vocabulary can be used in discussing economics, the new Corporate Science has created a new lexicon for discussing and controlling the science issues needed to be examined by the public. Ten thousand or more parents have brought healthy children in the doctors for the measles mumps and rubella shot, and left with children arching and flailing in pain, screaming, remaining feverish and disturbed for hours and days. And while a generation ago, this information would have been made part of a data base, now these parents are told that their observations are "anecdotal."

Anecdotal my rear end! Inductive reasoning is a (or I guess I should concede and say it was) once part of the way that scientific hypotheses were proven. In fact Jenner himself only formulated his proof of a smallpox vaccine on his observations on fewer than forty milkmaids. Whereas the Corporate World wishes to deny the testimony of ten thousand parents, these days, as it doesn't want to give up on multiple vaccines.

[TZ]

104. Andrew Wakefield is a HIGHLY UNETHICAL person

Who performed NAZI-like unauthorized experients on autistic children. In fact he's in big trouble in the UK for this. He's going to go to jail for fraud and lose his license most likely.
I'm surprised he didn't get a job in the Bush administration. He'd fit right in..:puke:

[truedelphi]

164. Andyou spent how many hours watching the hearings on vaccines?

Oh wait, you paid attention to the newspaper articles in the COrporate Controlled media.

He didn't even touch the kids, not at all.

Read the testimony I printed in my post above.

If you can read!

Emma Goldman spent time in jail, Joe Hill was executed for Armed Robbery. Guess you'd side with the Corproate Media run back in those days too.

[reggie the dog]

79. Here in France my doctor recommended

that we not vaccine our daughter against Measels Mumps and Rubella until she is a teenager. If she gets measles she will build up her own antibodies and will not need the vaccine. He said that statistically the chance of dieing from measles mumps or rubella in France is lower than the chance of the baby having a bad reaction to the vaccine and that a bad reaction in a teenager would be less dangerous than for a small baby.

[depakid]

82. That's pretty irresponsible advice

as measles cases are often brought into the country from unvaccinated travellers- and failing to vaccinate creates clusters where measles spreads- as recently occurred in the UK

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/72197.php

Moreover, measles is not a harmless disease; it comes with serious complications:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/measles/DS00331/DSECTION=complications

[lumberjack_jeff]

135. Those wacky irresponsible doctors.

It's a good thing we've got the DU Pharma shill legionnaires watching over us.

[mzmolly]

141. LOL. Indeed. How dare they consider the individual child vs.

fall in lock step with the advice of profiteers.

[depakid]

170. Is there evidence and logic that you fail to understand?

no, don't answer that- it's obvious. Conspiracy theory outweighs evidence and scientific thought.

[mzmolly]

116. Sounds like your Dr. is considering the individual involved?

Bravo to him/her.

[uppityperson]

184. Huh, my French family's doc recommended their kids get vaccinated as kids.

Guess there are all sorts of recommendations by different docs

[LeftishBrit]

85. Sad; but I don't think it's fair to single out Jenny McCarthy...

there have been several people speaking out against vaccines. I would personally blame Andrew Wakefield a lot more.

[Medusa]

94. But Wakefield is a saint

didn't you get his memo telling everyone that he is? :sarcasm:

[Junkdrawer]

86. Project much?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnfound]

96. It is despicable to attack someone in this manner and demeans your argument.

You say she "holds onto a mistaken belief", and because you disagree with that belief, you want to blame her for deaths of children?

If she was a public policy author, or a person taking a position purely for profit (books don't qualify unless you think she is writing the books deceptively in order to make a buck), you would have some leeway. But she is a citizen with a right to free speech speaking about something that apparently in good faith ("mistaken", in your word) she sincerely believes is correct.

I cannot stand it when people don't make a distinction between sincere mistakes and culpable intention. It's uncivilized.

[TZ]

107. She is spreading pseudoscience worse than Creationist anti-evolutionary arguements

AND causing death and permanent injury resulting from the anti-science anti-vaccine screed she spouts..which doesn't have a scientific truth.
This is everybit as harmful as global warming deniers as well.
I see you have bought into the two tiered scientific hypocrisy on DU..Evolution deniers, global warming deniers BAD..anti-vaxxers GOOD.:puke:
They are all dangerous pseudoscience.

[lostnfound]

206. I have one opinion about corporate propaganda and another about individual free speech.

Unless you can show me that she is getting paid millions by the equivalent of Exxon to "spout" (as you say) her unscientific opinions, it is not a valid comparison.

Unpopular opinions of individuals are extremely valuable in a democratic and open society. People can weigh it on its own merits. No reason she needs to be cowed into marching in lockstep with the CDC or whoever else has a stake in this.

Who's afraid that opposing views to hers won't stand on their own merits, anyway? Truth, meet level playing field.

[CatsDogsBabies]

97. Well, my mother lost two siblings

to what are now vaccine-preventable childhood illnesses (so my grandmother lost 2 of her 8 children at about 1 year of age). And, to put this into persepctive, I have a preschool-aged child who is protected from these same diseases (and who never gets sick). It really wasn't that long ago that children routinely died from all these diseases children are now vaccinated against. Go to any older cemetary to see how common it was for families to lose one child or several children in the first years of life.

It is unfortunate that JM's child has been diagnosed with autism, but this does not give her the right to advocate that other children suffer from other non-related conditions. I really don't think she is trying to help other children.

[mscuedawg]

100. McCarthy's response to polio and the like were..."those diseases dont exist anymore"

...BECAUSE OF VACCINES!!!!! Duh! As a mom, I understand wanting answers to your questions when it comes to your children, but complete refrain from vaccination is irresponsible..IMHO...

[AngryAmish]

101. See: You have let the anti-vax nutters out again.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to get them back in their pens? Do you?

[NeedleCast]

105. Whenever a Celebrity Does Something,

Doing the opposite thing is usually the best course of action.

Yes, there are a few exceptions to this rule, but not a lot.

[crimsonblue]

109. Autism is caused by a mutation in one's DNA...

This mutation is heritable, and people may be carriers for autism. The mutation can also arise during the fusion between egg and sperm cell. Autism is not caused by vaccines.

[Jim__]

117. According to the CDC, the cause of autism is not known.

From the CDC's website:

What causes autism?

We have learned a lot about the symptoms of ASDs and have improved efforts to track the disorders, but we still don’t know a lot about the causes of ASDs. Scientists think that both genes and the environment play a role, and there might be many causes that lead to ASDs.

Family studies have been most helpful in understanding how genes contribute to autism. Studies have shown that among identical twins, if one child has autism, then the other will be affected about 75% of the time. In non-identical twins, if one child has autism, then the other has it about 3% of the time. Also, parents who have a child with an ASD have a 2%–8% chance of having a second child who is also affected.<5>,<6>

For most people with ASDs, the cause is not known. But ASDs tend to occur more often than expected among people who have certain other medical conditions, including Fragile X syndrome, tuberous sclerosis, congenital rubella syndrome, and untreated phenylketonuria (PKU). Some harmful drugs taken during pregnancy also have been linked with a higher risk of autism, specifically, the prescription drug thalidomide.

CDC’s Centers for Autism and Developmental Disabilities Surveillance and Epidemiology (CADDRE) are working together on a large, population-based study to better understand the possible risk factors for and causes of autism. Called the Study to Explore Early Development (SEED), this project will help answer the many questions needed to find the causes of autism and—if possible—come up with strategies to prevent this complex disorder.

[lumberjack_jeff]

133. The increase in prevalence can't be explained by anything other than environment.

Clearly genetics causes people to be more or less susceptible to it. But there's an environmental trigger.

[Orrex]

221. Or a broadening of the diagnostic criteria

Or a change in the methodology of sampling.

Or a change in the thoroughness of reporting.

Or a changed in parental awareness/paranoia due to media hypersaturation.


Incidentally, even if there's an environmental trigger, we still have no idea what it might be or how it might function or if it requires a preexisting genetic condition in order to manifest.

[Freddie Stubbs]

118. Perhaps this is a good thing

These morans will be passing along less of their genetic material.

[PA Democrat]

148. WTF?

The people who are DEAD and thus unable to pass on their genetic material are in most cases CHILDREN. That's a "good thing"?

Ever think that there are other reasons that people aren't getting their kids vaccinated? Maybe you should look into the impact of illegal immigration on vaccination rates. Or would their deaths be a "good thing" as well?

[lumberjack_jeff]

128. The very definition of flamebait. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

139. And Slander...And Pseudoscience...

Assuming there's been an increase of preventable childhood diseases, what's more plausible:

1.) The economic downturn has more and more parents skimping on routine visits

2.) Jenny McCarthy's advocacy of a slower vaccination schedule

For a group that claims a monopoly on the Scientific Method, this thread is a thorough embarrassment.

[mzmolly]

191. What's interesting is we have record high vaccination rates.

This according to the CDC so the entire premise is bologna. :hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

130. Autism has both a genetic and environmental component, it is now believed.

vaccines aren't causing autism. Never have. It's straw grasping by parents who feel the need to blame something, anything for their child's diagnosis.

And, it's wrong.


Thanks, PBD for this thread.

[Stuckinthebush]

163. Best response to this thread

clear, concise, and reasoned.

Thank you.

[rucky]

142. This doesn't help me.

I'd like to know how many illnesses and deaths are related to the vaccines themselves. Then at least you're giving parents the information they need to weigh the risks.

[Orrex]

222. It is also essential that parents understand the effects of the illnesses in question

Rotovirus, for instance, has some positively delightful effects. A description of the illnesses is every bit as essential as "how many illnesses and deaths are related to the vaccines themselves."

When we vaccinated our two children, we received literature prior to the actual shots that outlined the known side effects and the signs to watch for in case of a reaction to the vaccines.

I don't believe that the literature included a statistical analysis of the likelihood of fatality, but this information is readily available online from credible sources.

[fascisthunter]

159. nice bit of propaganda there

so how much did the Pharmaceutical pay for this OP?

[BrklynLiberal]

171. and/or the website..

Someone with better tech insight than I can followup
http://www.easywhois.com/index.php


Registrant:
Contactprivacy.com
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA

Domain name: JENNYMCCARTHYBODYCOUNT.COM


Administrative Contact:
contactprivacy.com, email address guarded from harvesters
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457
Technical Contact:
contactprivacy.com, email address guarded from harvesters
96 Mowat Ave
Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
CA
+1.4165385457


Registration Service Provider:
PowWeb, email address guarded from harvesters
866-476-9932



Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 02-Feb-2009.
Record expires on 02-Feb-2010.
Record created on 02-Feb-2009.

Registrar Domain Name Help Center:
http://domainhelp.tucows.com

Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.POWWEB.COM
NS1.POWWEB.COM

[Junkdrawer]

176. It's a "No Tell" web hosting service....

Someone's afraid of a lawsuit...

[EvolveOrConvolve]

210. It's pretty easy to set up some simple privacy controls on a registered domain

That doesn't mean that they're afraid of a lawsuit. A lawyer could bust through that privacy screen easily in several hours, and I can guarantee that Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey have enough money for good lawyer.

The website itself appears to have been created by an individual. It doesn't have a slick, shiny interface like you'd find on a corporate funded website. If a large pharmaceutical company had funded this, the website would have been enormous and immaculate. This website is not, and I really doubt it's anything more than a small-timer who created it. For god's sake, look at the URL for the home page - it's amateur hour.

[trotsky]

229. Fits with the pattern though.

Any data or idea that challenges the "let's blame vaccines" mindset is instantly met with "BIG PHARMA IS BEHIND IT" choruses. (One step up the evolutionary ladder from "LA LA LA, I can't hear you!!")

Which is odd in itself, since if vaccines really do cause autism, there are no drugs to treat it! "Big pharma" is pretty damn stupid to be willfully creating a condition that they won't profit from!

Ah but that's logic, and it has no place in an anti-vaccination worldview.

[newtothegame]

175. I'd count that body. n/t

[Name removed]

232. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varkam]

234. Goodbye, girl!

:rofl: Oh, I kill me. I was going to welcome you back, but I saw I was too late.