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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 07:55 AM
Original message
Anyone here ever have c--diff?
I acquired it from taking too many antibiotics. I've been battling it since Oct. and on the final 7 days of a Rifampin/Vancomycin combo. I had my teeth cleaned in August, took 1000mg Amoxicillin, then I had my son in August - and was put on erythomycin for my mitral valve, then in Sept, came down with bronchitis, put on the z-pack, in October I took Omnicef and bam.. Came down with c-diff. Been on Flagyl, Vanco, and now on Vanco/Rifampin combo for 30 days. I'm seeing an Infectious Disease doc who seems to really know her stuff and I hope I can get this under control. I go see her on tuesday so I'm hoping this stuff is working. I did go on probiotics when I was first dx'd with it, and my ID told me that the probiotics will kill off the medication and not let it work. That could be why I cant get rid of it. So 7 days left of the meds and I'm going to be starting VSL3 again.

I will NEVER, EVER take another antibiotic unless it is deemed 100% necessary, and I will follow that with my kids as well. I cant believe how many doctors dont know about this. I'm 24, 3 kids, and previously didnt have any medical issues other than a bad back.

I'm still scared to death that I'm going to die from this, even with multiple doctors telling me I wont. I'm just scared.

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. my 94 year old dad has it now.
Edited on Fri Jan-06-06 08:23 AM by xchrom
we've been battling this since this summer -- june to be exact.

he's now an invalid and had to go in the hospital with pnuemonia -- as a result he was put on anti-b's and contracted c-diff.

he's been on three courses of flagyl one course of vanco{which gave him a negative result but came back a week later} and is now on flagyly indefinetly.

i'm concerned that the doctors haven't used a combo thereapy.

but then again i have a hard time getting them to treat him as anything but terminal because of his age.

no, it won't kill you but it will make life a living hell --

i wish you the best -- i believe the combo therapy should do the trick.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. That is horrible...
Hes a living person.. he should get the best of care regardless of how old he is. For all they know, he could outlive them. I tried the Flagyl and it was horrible. I couldnt take it past 10 days because of the side effects. Did you consult an infectious disease doc? My GI knew NOTHING about C-diff. He only knew to give vanco or flagyl and that was it.

I'd pressure them more. This isnt a fun disease at all. :(
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well your post is comprehensible, you dont seem delirious.
I dont quite understand what you wrote about the discontinuing the probiotics and the other meds but I do know that tummy fauna is a tender little ecosystem. Mt brother had a genuine tapeworm in his stomach. Though not the same... he stayed on meds for a long time, just to make sure the varmit got killed off. Good luck and don't be scared. I would use this whole episode as a sprinboard to rededicate yourself to taking care of yourself in every way if you're not already. Good diet. Personal time. Turn a neg. into a pos.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I dont understand it either.
She told me that the probiotics will inactivate the Vancomycin and not let it at the c-diff. I was feeling better when I was on the probiotics, it actually made me feel better. I was shocked when she told me to get off all probiotics. I am using this is a spinboard. It has changed my complete outlook on life. It made me wake up and stop taking drugs that doctors throw at you. As soon as I do get over this, I'm going to start exercising. I dont need to lose weight - I just need to tone up and get in shape.

Its sad it took this to wake me up and realize.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Nah, you young. Your body resilent. I asked my 85 yr old urologist
who looks 60 and runs marathons what is the secret to good health? He said that's easy...hydrate and have sex often.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. Been there done that a few times
with my wife, Last time she had it We checked out of the hosp.
The next morning she got up and on a empty stomach drank 16 oz. of cs, followed by 16oz. of water and followed up with some acidophlus to replace the friendly flora. now I cant recomend this of course.
worked great for my wife.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Whats cs?
If this round of meds dont work, I'm on a taper of Vanco. I really hope I dont have to go on another round of this stuff. I'm worried about developing a resistance to it. How long did it take for her digestive system to go back to normal? I read a LOOONG time it can take, and IBS can be a result of the c-diff.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. It's colloidal silver
I have been using it for a number of years now I'll post a link for your general information they sell cs too, but its easy to make at home real cheap.
The problem seemed to go right away, and it works the same with pnunomia. check out also
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. So sorry purr! I do have some ideas to share with you.
I worked in health care for 17 years and have seen this situation far too often.

I had many problems with reoccurring bronchitis until I began to drink Essiac Tea. You may have heard of its use in cancer. Very powerful and healing stuff. I have not had bronchitis in the past eight years, and I attribute it to this tea. Within 24 hrs of drinking a small amount I can see how my lungs are being cleared. You begin to cough it up but, very gently.

I buy a good organic tea from 1-800-NEEDS in Syracuse, NY. This is a good source.

There's lots of info on the web about it. Sorry no link.

You may also wish to look for a homeopathic remedy. My kids now 13 and 9 have NEVER taken an antibiotic. Luckily out pediatrician now practices homeopathy.

Hope you feel better soon! :hug:
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thanks! I'll check out that stuff.
It seems that I get bronchitis like 3-4 times a year. I'd love to find a homeopathic doctor, but theres none around here :( I do belong to the cdiff support board online and theres close to 400 members on there. Theres quite a few people on there that have had this for 4+ years!!! I couldnt imagine that. I hope I dont have it that long.

What I dont know what I'm going to do with the antibiotics - since I have mitral valve, I need to take antibiotics every time I get my teeth cleaned, worked on, or if I need surgery.

I do know I need my gallbladder out and I dont know what I'm going to do then :(
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. How much vitamin C do you get a day?? You may want to check
out research on how vital vitamin C is to our wellness... I myself like sugars that heal..... why here is one of them now.... you may want to read the following book as well..... "Sugars that Heal".

FYI I have taken arabinogalactan... no ill side effects, no worries.

1: Altern Med Rev. 1999 Apr;4(2) :96-103. Related Articles, Links

Larch arabinogalactan: clinical relevance of a novel immune-enhancing polysaccharide.

Kelly GS.

Larch arabinogalactan is composed of greater than 98-percent arabinogalactan, a highly branched polysaccharide consisting of a galactan backbone with side-chains of galactose and arabinose sugars. Larch arabinogalactan is an excellent source of dietary fiber, and has been approved as such by the FDA. It has been shown to increase the production of short-chain fatty acids, principally butyrate and propionate, and has been shown to decrease the generation and absorption of ammonia. Evidence also indicates human consumption of larch arabinogalactan has a significant effect on enhancing beneficial gut microflora, specifically increasing anaerobes such as Bifidobacteria and Lactobacillus. Larch arabinogalactan has several interesting properties which appear to make it an ideal adjunctive supplement to consider in cancer protocols. Experimental studies have indicated larch arabinogalactan can stimulate natural killer (NK) cell cytotoxicity, enhance other functional aspects of the immune system, and inhibit the metastasis of tumor cells to the liver. The immune-enhancing properties also suggest an array of clinical uses, both in preventive medicine, due to its ability to build a more responsive immune system, and in clinical medicine, as a therapeutic agent in conditions associated with lowered immune function, decreased NK activity, or chronic viral infection.

Publication Types:

PMID: 10231609
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I take a multivitamin - it says 200 mg - 333% total daily value of C
Interesting article.. I wonder if I can get vitamin testing from my doc.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. There are people who take between 10 and 20 grams per day,
Edited on Sun Jan-08-06 06:27 PM by 4MoronicYears
"just to be safe". If a rabbit, (that still retains the enzymatic ability to make ascorbic acid) feels the need to make 14 grams of ascorbic acid per day, and he only weighs between 6 to 10 pounds.... then going by human body weight.... what "REALLY" is an optimal amount for us????

This will give you an idea as to why I queried about your immune system status.... your blood counts may be good... but this is referring to your intestinal environment....

1: J Clin Pathol. 2004 Sep;57(9) :973-9. Related Articles, Links

Colonic IgA producing cells and macrophages are reduced in recurrent and non-recurrent Clostridium difficile associated diarrhoea.

Johal SS, Lambert CP, Hammond J, James PD, Borriello SP, Mahida YR.

Division of Gastroenterology, University Hospital, Nottingham NG7 2UH, UK.

BACKGROUND: In Clostridium difficile associated diarrhoea (CDAD), histological changes in the colonic mucosa range from minimal inflammation to pseudomembranous colitis (PMC). The disease also recurs in a considerable proportion of patients. AIM: To investigate mucosal immune system cells in colonic biopsies of patients with CDAD. METHODS: Colonic biopsies were obtained from 12 control patients with diarrhoea, six patients with CDAD and minimal inflammation, and 10 patients with CDAD with pseudomembranous colitis (samples obtained from areas with and without inflammatory exudate). Immunohistochemical studies were performed using antibodies to T cells (CD3), macrophages (CD68), B/plasma cells (CD79alpha), and to IgA, IgM, and IgG. Labelled cells in lamina propria were quantified.

RESULTS: In contrast to T cells, there were significant reductions in B/plasma cell and macrophage counts in all biopsies from patients with CDAD compared with controls (p<0.001). Studies using anti-immunoglobulin antibodies showed significant reductions in IgA producing cells in CDAD biopsies (p<0.05), with the greatest reduction in samples from patients with PMC. In contrast, there was a significant increase (p<0.05) in IgG producing cells in CDAD biopsies. Only patients with PMC relapsed. In these patients, B/plasma cell and IgA producing cell counts (in biopsies with and without inflammatory exudates) were significantly lower (p<0.01) in mucosal samples from those who subsequently relapsed (five) than those who did not.

CONCLUSIONS: A selective reduction in mucosal IgA producing cells and macrophages is associated with colonic disease in C difficile infected patients. Severe reduction in colonic IgA producing cells may predispose to recurrence of CDAD.

PMID: 15333661
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I'm still pretty sure he did those tests... I also had a bunch of blood
Edited on Sun Jan-08-06 06:48 PM by purr
work when I was in the hospital. I dont have the pseudomembraneous colitis.. Thats the worst form of c-diff. I think if I had problems with my cells as above, then I would have more serious issues - like I only had the diarrhea ONE DAY... Other than that I'm totally fine. Sure, I get the loose stools every now and then, but I never have the diarrhea like I did that day I went to the er.

I think if I did have a lowered immune system, I'd have more problems than I do now.

I even asked my doctor if Vancomycin could stop working, he said no - not unless you have AIDS, then he said which you DONT have. Hes done waaaay too many blood tests on me that all came back normal.

Overall, the only 'illness' I get is bronchitis a couple times a year - but thats from me smoking. I dont even know if it IS true bronchitis since he never tested me for it, I think I just get upper respiratory infections. It usally comes on after one of my kids gets sick and I get it.

How much of vit c do you take/ Dont you have to take it with another vitamin for it to work effectively? I was always scared of taking more than 1g of it because its hard on your digestive system.

On edit: I also had a negative ANA test. I thought if I had something up with my immune system, that would be positive? Thats what I got out of the literature on the ANA.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I take a few grams per day... .it works better with bioflavonoids
which is in my C... I use ester c which is buffered and doesn't "get your gut" like regular C does.

If you smoke.... you may want to read up on Pine Bark Extract... I don't know if the oral supplement can do what this filter experiment did... but Pycnogenol is a wonder nutrient anyway and it WILL NOT HURT YOU.

1: Toxicol Ind Health. 2002 Jun;18(5):215-24. Related Articles, Links

Pycnogenol in cigarette filters scavenges free radicals and reduces mutagenicity and toxicity of tobacco smoke in vivo.

Zhang D, Tao Y, Gao J, Zhang C, Wan S, Chen Y, Huang X, Sun X, Duan S, Schonlau F, Rohdewald P, Zhao B.

Institute of Biophysics, Academia Sinica, 15 Datun Road, Chaoyang District, Beijing 100101, PR China.

Despite large-scale anti-smoking campaigns throughout the world, the number of smokers remains high and cigarette smoking continues to represent a life-threatening health risk. Until a smoke-free society is achieved, reduction of cigarette smoke toxins may reduce the health burden. Current cigarette filter techniques are limited to the reduction of volatile tar constituents by dilution and by condensation on the filter surface. Vast quantities of harmful constituents, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, heterocyclic (aromatic) amines, free radicals and reactive oxygen species, are inefficiently retained in the filter. We investigated whether neutralisation of free radicals in cigarette filters is feasible and accompanied by a reduction in smoke toxicity. Addition of the bioflavonoid pine bark extract Pycnogenol to cigarette filters depleted free radicals in a dose dependent manner. This was paralleled by a reduction of toxicity and mutagenicity in rodent test models. In this model system, the acute toxicity of cigarette smoke was markedly reduced by up to 70% in rodents with 0.4 mg Pycnogenol in filters. Chronic exposure to cigarette smoke for 75 days revealed that Pycnogenol filters significantly reduced mutagenicity by up to 48% and decreased pathological changes in lung tissue.

PMID: 14653310

1: Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2002 Apr;40(4):158-68. Related Articles, Links

A review of the French maritime pine bark extract (Pycnogenol), a herbal medication with a diverse clinical pharmacology.

Rohdewald P.

Institute Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Westfalische Wilhelms-Universitat Munster, Germany.

OBJECTIVES: An increasing body of evidence indicates that Pycnogenol (PYC), a standardized extract of French maritime pine bark, has favorable pharmacological properties. This is a review of studies with both PYC and components of the preparation, that have helped to elucidate target sites and possible mechanisms for activity in men.

METHODS: Studies appearing in peer reviewed literature, as well as results presented at international meetings not yet available as published papers, are included in this review. Additional data from published sources in German and French languages that are not widely available are also included.

RESULTS: Chemical identification studies showed that PYC is primarily composed of procyanidins and phenolic acids. Procyanidins are biopolymers of catechin and epicatechin subunits which are recognized as important constituents in human nutrition. PYC contains a wide variety of procyanidins that range from the monomeric catechin and taxifolin to oligomers with 7 or more flavonoid subunits.

The phenolic acids are derivatives of benzoic and cinnamic acids. The ferulic acid and taxifolin components are rapidly absorbed and excreted as glucuronides or sulphates in men, whereas procyanidins are absorbed slowly and metabolized to valerolactones which are excreted as glucuronides. PYC has low acute and chronic toxicity with mild unwanted effects occurring in a small percentage of patients following oral administration. Clinical studies indicate that PYC is effective in the treatment of chronic venous insufficiency and retinal micro-hemorrhages.

PYC protects against oxidative stress in several cell systems by doubling the intracellular synthesis of anti-oxidative enzymes and by acting as a potent scavenger of free radicals. Other anti-oxidant effects involve a role in the regeneration and protection of vitamin C and E. Anti-inflammatory activity has been demonstrated in vitro and in vivo in animals. Protection against UV-radiation-induced erythema was found in a clinical study following oral intake of PYC.

In asthma patients symptom scores and circulating leukotrienes are reduced and lung function is improved. Immunomodulation has been observed in both animal models as well as in patients with Lupus erythematosus. PYC antagonizes the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine and norepinephrine by increasing the activity of endothelial nitric oxide synthase. Dilation of the small blood vessels has been observed in patients with cardiovascular disease, whereas in smokers, PYC prevents smoking-induced platelet aggregation and reduces the concentration of thromboxane. The ability to inhibit angiotensin-converting enzyme is associated with a mild antihypertensive effect.

PYC relieves premenstrual symptoms, including abdominal pain and this action may be associated with the spasmolytic action of some phenolic acids. An improvement in cognitive function has been observed in controlled animal experiments and these findings support anecdotal reports of improvement in ADHD patients taking PYC supplements. CONCLUSIONS: There is much evidence showing that PYC has beneficial effects on physiological functions. Results from ongoing clinical research are required to confirm and extend previous observations.

Publication Types:

PMID: 11996210

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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. WOW.. Where do you get your info?? Your quite good :)
I should send you my labs for interpretation :P Just kidding..

What do you think with all the normal values? My doc says nothing else is going on with me - only the cdiff which in itself can be hard to get rid of. Some people on the board I'm on have had it for 4+ years!!!!! They also found out that sometimes IBS is low-grade c-diff. I've always had IBS symptoms so its hard to tell if its the c-diff or the IBS.

Ester C eh? I'm going to get a bottle of that and slowly add it to my diet until I get up to 1g again. What are bioflavinoids??

You are so wonderful and helpful :)
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I've had either IBS or Ulcerative Colitis for awhile... (long time) and
Edited on Sun Jan-08-06 07:46 PM by 4MoronicYears
here is what seems to be helping me now.

A couple grams of C per day.

100mg of grape seed, (a cousin of pine bark)

Beta-Sitosterol, two thumbs up from the FDA

Wild Yam extract

A multi vitamin/mineral


I have been taking these things for awhile... but what really seemed to minimize my problems was the glyconutrient complex.... you can't say enough good things about them. I just got back on them and I will not go off them again.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Oh man I have so many ? I'd love to ask you about.
Like for example -

The whole Collodial Silver thing.. I was doing some research on it and I found that its actually harmful for you. A friend that I made on the cdiff board has been drinking Xango juice and I looked that up as well and it doesnt do squat either.

How do you know what is true and whats not when doing things like this? Of course, I would ask my doc before I even tried anything, but even thinking of taking something how do you know? Also how do you know if its not going to harm you in anyway?

What if some doctor comes online and says "drink 2 teaspoons of bleach a day and your problems will go away?" I mean, that could be fatal.

I only have 5 days left of Vanco & Rifampin and I'm going to go on VSL3 (probiotic) as soon as I'm done. I see the Infectious doc on tuesday so I'll be asking her if I can start up the probiotics since I will be off of meds soon.

Ok I'm off to the glyco site to check that out.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. The glyco site should be the end of the road so to speak for
you..... these glyconutrients are NOT foreign to our bodies. They SHOULD be in the foods we eat. You liver has to make them every day and it's a back up system that does this function. If you knew what people who have had every type of malady from A to Z have experienced.... well, you get my drift. Happy hunting and perhaps you could consider an MD who has either taken longevity training or nutritional therapy classes.

Many excellent naturopaths are graduating from this university.... do read up on their training and methodologies... 4.
The public's increased interest in natural health care has precipitated a growing need for basic and clinical research in natural health practices. Bastyr University has been continually expanding its research efforts since 1986, when the university declared research as one of the three fundamental parts of its mission.

Research at Bastyr aims to investigate, evaluate, and develop the principles and practices of natural, integrated and complementary medicine.

Scientific Practices
As a leading academic institution of natural health sciences, Bastyr strives to fulfill its responsibility by documenting the results of studies often involving centuries-old, empirically-derived practices with rigorous scientific method. Research at Bastyr is dedicated to furthering the evolution of natural health practices and to the continued development of faculty skills and resources in this area, as well as the training of students in research methods and design.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Bioflavonoids are.....
Bioflavonoids are reported to have numerous health benefits. They are the natural pigments in fruits and vegetables. There have been many scientific reports about bioflavonoids but none have produced firm reports that confirm this statement. Researchers have reported over eight hundred different bioflavonoids. Most of these are the yellow pigments found in citrus fruit as well as other fruits and vegetables, these are referred to as flavonoids.

Bioflavonoids are also referred to as vitamin P, a name that nutrition scientists object to because it has not been proved that they are essential to human nutrition and health. Many researchers are studying bioflavonoids and many reports have been given about their possible functions. Some researchers believe that bioflavonoids help maintain capillaries. Capillaries are microscopic blood vessels that allow the oxygen, hormones, nutrients, and antibodies to pass from the bodys bloodstream to individual cells. If a capillarys walls are too fragile they will allow blood to drain out of the vessels and into the cells. The result of this is easy bruising, brain and retinal hemorrhages, bleeding gums and other abnormalities.

Bioflavonoids also in recent studies have been shown to help the blood clot, this alone can be helpful in treating phlebitis and other clotting disorders. Many bioflavonoids prevent the cellular damage caused by free radicals; these are unstable molecules that are formed when the body burns oxygen. Some bioflavonoids are used as food preservatives to prevent fats from oxidation. Some reports show bioflavonoids are useful in enhancing the antioxidant action of certain nutrients

I would recommend this book if you like to get a "second opinion" from doctors who have been there done that.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Probiotics(good bacteria the body needs to function) help with
conditions caused by taking antibiotics. Any time antibiotics are used, they kill both harmful and beneficial bacteria and the
good ones need to be replenished by pro-biotics. I had chronic condition caused by fluorine based antibiotic for several months
and a Digestive Treatment Clinic used probiotics to cure the problem. In chronic cases, I've found experienced colonics practitioners to be the quickest way to get rid of bad intestinal populations of things like parasites or bad bacteria like clostridia and to repopulate the intestines with good bacteria.

Antibiotic resistance is a huge problem these days, getting rapidly worse due to indescriminate prescription by doctors for
conditions its not likely to help or that there are better options for- in addition to widespread use in animal farms.

Antibiotics are showing up in water bodies everywhere, with antibiotic restistance increasing due to widespread use.
Microbes always adapt with those resistant then proliferating.

Antibiotic soap is also a major problem and widely used and hugely adding to the problem. A person in my family was
extremely immune reactive to antibiotic soap and had severe reactions. The reaction was so severe he was affected just by
being near the soap, but broke out in hives/mental confusion if used.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Tell me about it.. I have a doc whos too antibiotic happy.
I told him never to give me another antibiotic!! I should get rid of my antibiotic soap. I've been thinking about doing that after my c-diff is gone. I dont want to pass this on to the kids or hubby!
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Gilmore Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-07-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am sorry that this has happened...
I hope that the doctor's visit goes well.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Me too! Only 2 more days!
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. CDiff support site..... looks good, hope it helps.... 4
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Thanks!! I belong to the site..
Stopped posting there because of the psycho mods. You ask a question and they flip out on you - NICE!! :)

I'd love to go to that center in Australia.. they do the fecal infusions which they claim to have a high success cure rate! I'm thinking of doing that if this doesnt work :(
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Not to pry.... but is your t-cell count and all the other critical values
such as your CD-8 cells where they should be??? If not, they can be recovered,I have absolutely no doubts about that.
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Had a complete blood workup and all is welll. I dont even have anemia.
Why would they be low?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I "assumed" that a bacteria thrives..... when the immune system is
either weakened or dysregulated. Since 80% of your immune cells "live" in your intestines.... I figured they may be lying on their duffs instead of taking care of business so to speak. Have you read any on Arabinogalactan??
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purr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I did read that.. Where would you get the stuff?
Wonder why my immune system could be weakened? I got all this from overuse of antibiotics. It wiped out the good bacteria and left the bad bacteria to grow.

I'll call my doc on monday to see if he did do those tests you mentioned. I'm pretty sure he did, as well as my CBC w/ diff, platelets, liver, kidney, pancreas and a whole bunch of other things and all are in normal values. Wouldnt those be off with low immune system problems?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. A proper balance of intestinal micro-flora is essential for a
proper immune response.... (in the intestines). Intestinal dysbiosis can lead to leaky gut syndrome, which can trigger all sorts of maladies. I will link you to a site with many many M.D.'s statements on aloe vera, a site with a great article on intestinal dysbiosis, and a book I have that could possibly help you in ways you can't imagine.... I hope I am giving you information that will benefit you in the near future.... 4.

Click on "library" and enter search term "bacteria".
Search results
Using keyword(s): "bacteria"

From Category: Aloe Vera (32 matches)

Sub-Category: Articles From Doctors and Health Practitioners
A Natural Solution To Drug-Resistant Bacteria, Viruses And Fungi

Sub-Category: The History of Aloe Vera
A Natural Solution To Drug-Resistant Bacteria, Viruses & Fungi

Sub-Category: The History of Aloe Vera
Aloe Vera Controls The Amount Of Juice And Neutralizes Acidity

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Virus, Bacteria, Fungi And Parasites III

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Skin Disorders IV

Sub-Category: Articles From Doctors and Health Practitioners
Aloe Vera And The Human Digestive System

Sub-Category: Articles From Doctors and Health Practitioners
A Holistic Protocol For The Immune System

Sub-Category: The History of Aloe Vera
A Holistic Protocol For The Immune System

Sub-Category: Articles From Doctors and Health Practitioners
Aloe Vera And The Human Immune System

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Virus, Bacteria, Fungi And Parasites II

Sub-Category: The History of Aloe Vera
Clinical Research - Findings And Results On Aloe Vera

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Gastrointestinal Disorders V

Sub-Category: Articles From Doctors and Health Practitioners
The Cancer Solution

Sub-Category: The History of Aloe Vera
The Cancer Solution

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Wound Healing III

Sub-Category: Clinical Research - Findings and Results
Virus, Bacteria, Fungi And Parasites V

The term "orthobiosis" was first introduced in the early 1900's by a microbiologist Metchnikoff to describe a state of health dependent on the correct balance of microbes that live in the ecosystem of our gastrointestinal tracts.
Metchnikoff felt that when our gut bacteria is in balance we possess "orthobiosis." When our gut is out of balance we are said to have "putrefactive dysbiosis."
Numerous studies since then have supported these theories showing that the generation of toxic chemicals by the action of the gut bacteria on meat protein leads to this putrefactive dysbiosis. We recently have come to realize that the absorption of these putrefactive toxins also cause "dis-eases" of their own, or lead to other body function changes that lead to "dis-eases."
More recently, there has been added a "fermentation dysbiosis." Some fermentation is necessary because it produces butyrate and short chain fatty acids (SCFA) that nourish the cells lining the gut. If it takes over, however, the end result is "fermentation dysbiosis" another process leading to toxins that cause dis-ease.
If "putrefactive or fermentative dysbiosis" is taking place in the gut, the gut wall is damaged by yeast/fungi and/or fermentative bacteria. This damage allows the absorption of toxic by-products, which in turn decreases the absorption of nutrients. If the good nutrients can't get into your body, alternative pathways are used to keep you going until these pathways are closed down from toxic by-products. Eventually you end up with a "dis-ease." A "dis-ease" not necessarily associated with your gut.
Gut symptoms of dysbiosis are:
Other tissue involvement of dysbiosis present as:
behavioral disorders
joint pain
learning disorders
immune dysfunction
chronic fatigue
muscle pains
nutritional deficiencies
As you can see, the brain, joints, liver, and muscles all are effected by this bacterial imbalance.
In order to evaluate a person for dysbiosis, the Complete Diagnostic Stool Analysis should be run.
Digestive Wellness
Not only is the list of difficulties caused by poor digestion lengthy, it includes many health problems that people don't immediately associate with their digestive process. Most people know that bad breath, indigestion, hiatal hernias, and Crohn's Disease are related to what happens in the digestive tract. Clinical nutritionist Elizabeth Lipski, M.S., C.C.N., also includes arthritis, autism, fibromyalgia, psoriasis, and schizophrenia in the list of digestion-related ailments.

Lipski cites all the latest research and studies on digestive disorders and therapies in her new book, Digestive Wellness, Updated Second Edition.
Digestion begins in the mouth and continues through the stomach and intestines to the colon. Each organ has an important role to play in helping the body break down foods so that their nutrients can be absorbed. Lipski says that "most of us don't think much about digestion unless it isn't working well," adding that "many people with chronic digestive problems continue to eat poorly, never realizing that their food choices are causing their ill health."

She starts with an exploration of the causes of digestive illness, which is often related to lifestyle choices. She then describes how a healthy digestive system works, and explains where and how the process can get out of balance. Lipski also includes information on how to pinpoint the source of your particular digestive disorder and provides recommendations and therapies for restoring wellness.

She emphasizes that each person has different biochemistry, and that what works for one will not work for another. Although health professionals can order lab tests (and she explains these tests fully), healing usually involves modifying individual eating habits. Accordingly, Lipski devotes one section to self-care strategies, with the intent of exposing readers to "more plans, new ideas, and the tools to be your own health expert."

She ends with a resource list of nutrition experts, health professionals, laboratories, and suggested reading.

Lipski says that Digestive Wellness "is about taking control of your lifestyle to increase your chances of getting healthier and more vibrant each year." It's an excellent resource for everyone suffering from any kind of digestive disorder and those who care about them.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-08-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. A clip from that link that is most important.... "perhaps".

Recurrent otitis media is common in pediatric populations and it appears that improving immune system function might lead to a decrease in both frequency and severity of this condition. Research has demonstrated larch and other arabinogalactans to be capable of enhancing the immune response to bacterial infection via stimulation of phagocytosis, competitive binding of bacterial fimbriae, or bacterial opsonization. This was found to be particularly true for infection by gram negative organisms such as Escherichia coli and Klebsiella species.<2,13> In addition, D'Adamo reports a decrease in occurrence and severity of otitis media in pediatric patients supplemented prophylactically with larch arabinogalactan.<2> Larch arabinogalactan's mild taste and excellent solubility in water and juice make it a relatively easy therapeutic tool to employ in pediatric populations.

Chronic Disease

A number of chronic diseases are characterized by decreased NK cell activity, including chronic fatigue syndrome,<14> viral hepatitis,<15,16> HIV/AIDS,<2> and autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis.<17> Stimulation of NK cell activity by larch arabinogalactan has been associated with recovery in certain cases of chronic fatigue syndrome.<18> Viral hepatitis (hepatitis B and C) is also characterized by a decrease in NK cell cytotoxicity<15,16> and therefore these patients may benefit from its stimulation by larch arabinogalactan. In the case of multiple sclerosis, a small 2-year study of patients with the relapsing/remitting type concluded that disease severity was correlated with NK cell functional activity, supporting the hypothesis that NK cells play a role in the immunopathogenesis of this disease.<17> Consequently, stimulation of NK cell cytotoxicity might be of clinical benefit to these patients. Patients with HIV/AIDS develop low CD4 cell counts and often are plagued by opportunistic infections. By virtue of its immune-stimulating properties, larch arabinogalactan has been shown to effect a slight increase in CD4 cell counts, in addition to decreasing susceptibility to opportunistic pathogens.<2>

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. Cell count..... and cell activity are two very different

1: Antioxid Redox Signal. 2005 Sep-Oct;7(9-10):1203-10. Related Articles, Links

Improvement of leukocyte functions in young prematurely aging mice after a 5-week ingestion of a diet supplemented with biscuits enriched in antioxidants.

Alvarado C, Alvarez P, Jimenez L, De la Fuente M.

Department of Physiology (Animal Physiology II), Faculty of Biological Sciences, Complutense University, Madrid, Spain.

In our previous studies, diet supplementation with therapeutic thiolic antioxidants improved the function of peritoneal leukocytes from mice, especially in adult prematurely aging mice (PAM). In the present work, we have studied the effects of ingestion during 5 weeks of a diet supplemented with 20% (wt/wt) of biscuits enriched with antioxidants (vitamin C, vitamin E, beta-carotene, zinc, and selenium) on several immune functions of peritoneal leukocytes from young PAM. The results show that, in macrophages, chemotaxis and phagocytosis as well as the intracellular free radical levels, which are depressed in PAM in comparison with the control nonprematurely aging mice (NPAM), increase after supplementation, especially in the PAM. An increase also occurs in lymphocyte chemotaxis, proliferative response to the mitogen concanavalin A, and interleukin-2 release, as well as in natural killer cell activity. However, the release of tumor necrosis factor-alpha, which increases with aging, decreases after 5 weeks of supplementation. As a well preserved function of the immune system is an excellent marker of health and longevity, the improvement of leukocyte functions after ingestion of the present diet suggests that this antioxidant supplementation may be useful for the preservation of health and functional longevity in aging populations.

PMID: 16115024
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