I'm beginning to wonder

[terrya]

Reading some of the posts here...especially around election time...

Whether we GLBT people are welcome at DU. And in the Democratic Party, period.

Maybe that's my pessmism kicking in.

[maddiejoan]

1. By and large

we are really not welcome except as a voting block.

I find no evidence that individual Democrats are more friendly to LGBT than individual Republicans,

[LostinVA]

12. Exactly

I've seen a lot of bigoted posts here on DU. Yet, when Haruka and I got married, most of our guests were Catholic Republicans. None of them are homophobic in the least.

[maddiejoan]

14. I have many Republican friends

that accept my transexuality far more than my leftist politics, and never seem to have "pronoun" trouble.

--and I have many Democratic friends that embrace my politics --but every now and then slip up and still refer to me as a "he".


Take that as you will.

[Duke Newcombe]

2. It would generally seem that you are...

...but I'm wondering what is making you feel unwelcome.

Duke

[terrya]

4. Here you go

Yet another fucking post reeking of homophobia. One more "gosh, that person just might be gay or lesbian". Of course, said person is usually a Republican. In this case, I'm certain that this is an Obama supporter.

Sometimes, the homophobia isn't even close to being subtle. People who posts things like this know we're around...fuck, it's not like the good people in this forum don't try to ask people to respect us. And yet, here you go.

If the Democratic nominee loses in November, we'll be blamed for it somehow. Count on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5734179&mesg_id=5734179

[mitchtv]

16. If the nominee is Obama,

Good if they lose. That post is just vile as were most of the Obama-nables who posted there, with a few notable exceptions, very few. Obama might not be all that bad, but his supporters ?

[MNBrewer]

3. I share that question

It feels like we're supposed to just be quiet and be grateful for the crumbs we do get.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. O'Rly?

Perhaps a little historical perspective is needed here...

Every America knows who Martin Luther King is. Few know anyone who argued against him (hint: Condoleezza Rice's family)

But, that's not the history I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the history of the argument they were having.

MLK wanted people to act, to protest until their rights were recognized. Rice's father (among others) believed sitting back and waiting was what the black community's correct path of action should be. Secret and non-offensive action would not upset the whites in power.

This very same argument was made between W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington.

While American school children are being "encouraged" to remember Washington, it is DuBois who is remembered through King. This is not to say Washington had accomplished little or nothing in his life, on the contrary, his life was a reflection of his time. DuBois simply had a longer view forward.

More Links

The Works of W.E.B. DuBois

Here is a link to an interesting Frontline page about the DuBois-Washington debates.

Bayard Rustin

[iamthebandfanman]

5. glbt and every true liberal.

this tends to happen come election time.

[msongs]

6. hey, maybe it's just vote dem and shut up. ask obama what his bible says about glbt equality nt

[MNBrewer]

7. It depends

On which parts he chooses to read. Jesus preached about hypocrisy of the "believers" lots more than about same sex stuff.

Hypocrisy was JC's biggest pet peeve.

[canis_lupus]

8. I understand where you're coming from

I left DU a couple of years ago over some of the homophobic/heterocentric opinions voiced by supposedly progressive members. Now that I'm back, it doesn't seem much has changed (and in some cases it's worse when we question Obama's or Clinton's support for LGBT issues.

Some straight DU members are true allies, but others exhibit no understanding whatsoever for our frustration at being told not to ask for our rights for fear or creating a "wedge issue" in the campaign.

I've thought seriously about giving up DU again ... but so far I've stuck with the motto "Fuck 'em if they can't or refuse to understand." I figure I'll stick around for a while and hope that maybe I can at least do some educating (and if that fails my plan is simply to call out some of the ignorance, bigotry and outright bullshit.

[MNBrewer]

9. SO true

Any of us who don't buy into the "politics is the art of the possible and gay rights equality isn't possible, so shut up" line are shouted down.

Screw the bigots, Dem or Pub.

[Toasterlad]

11. I Can Handle the Homophobic Dickheads....

...it's the sad, ignorant people who truly don't understand why we're upset when a politician embraces a noted homophobe, or when we're told our issues can wait til more important things are settled. Those are the ones who really depress me. How really, truly sad that they don't have it in them to empathize with what it's like to be a second class citizen.

When the well-meaning yet clueless simpletons are willing to give up the rights that they have as straight people until we ALL have the same rights, then they can lecture me about what's offensive or what's important. Until then, they really need to fuck off.

[DarkTirade]

26. That's a good point.

Head-on homophobia I can at least face down. It's a bit harder to face down ignorance.

[mitchtv]

13. In general we are accepted

In those seats at the rear. God forbid we should challenge Queen Bee or the Annointed One, then we are just in the way, traitors, stupid, etc.I have suspended all donations in practice for the day they ask me to vote, and tell me"McCain is worse". I refuse to wait any longer.

[Tyo]

24. I'm so with you on this

I think part of the problem for so many straight DUers is that when we challenge the QB or the AO or compare them unfavorably with the Gores and the Kuciniches it highlights the fact that The Party really doesn't give a shit about us and neither do they. It conflicts with their progressive self image and makes it necessary for them to avert their eyes from the human cost of their political "realism".

Instead of taking a principled position they get pissed off at us and defensive and the rationalizations start to flow. We all know that when a crunch comes and we need people to take a stand most of our straight friends have a thousand reasons why it's just not convenient for them to do that this time.

The only ones who will save us will be us.

[hulklogan]

15. The Democratic Party only gets my vote, and nothing else, until

the day when it truly supports GLBT Americans. Instead, I plan to donate all the money and time I would have given to a candidate or the party to my local GLBT service organizations.

We're only welcome in the party and on DU in the way that an unpopular coworker is welcome at the office Christmas party. And the most frustrating thing is that it doesn't have to be that way. It's just that the powers of the Democratic Party mistakenly believe that they can appeal to conservatives by joining the bigot brigade. In reality, the bigot conservatives aren't going to vote for Democrats anyway. There's a whole cohort of moderates with GLBT friends and family who are being ignored.

[Solon]

17. On DU, the problem is that the Mods are comfortable with homophobia, more so than they are...

racism, or other bigotries. Many members on this board, if they had made racial remarks even remotely similar to what they get away with when they make remarks about homosexuality, they would have been tombstoned in a heartbeat, but instead they are allowed to stay. To be honest, I think the Admins and Mods of DU treat homophobia much differently than other prejudices that are displayed here. They have more tolerance for it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. because homophobia itself is more acceptable in society..

kinda a vicious cycle

[Solon]

28. Yeah, I guess that puts the lie in the whole inclusiveness this board is supposedly about...

This board could be considered one of the most liberal places on the Internet, and yet, even here, homophobia is rampant. Yes, many are disruptors who don't last long, but others are long standing members who are, unfortunately, still allowed to post here.

[ruggerson]

18. The bigots are getting louder and louder

and sadly not enough folks do much about it.

[gaspee]

19. I feel very unwelcome

Here at DU lately.

[nomorenomore08]

20. I'm straight, but I sort of understand where you're coming from.

What's really unfortunate is that most of the people making you feel "unwelcome" probably aren't even truly prejudiced against gays - they just have no idea what it's like to be "other than the norm," and don't understand how that colors one's point of view. Even if they may have GLBT friends/relatives/coworkers/neighbors, there's still that fundamental gap in understanding. So it becomes very easy to say that certain issues aren't politically expedient, that so-and-so should "wait till next year," when they don't realize how important these issues are to many. It's much easier to be cold and calculating (or, if you prefer, cold-hearted) when you're dealing with stuff that doesn't directly affect you.

So at the very least, I wish these (heterosexual) people would shut up for a second and make some attempt to understand. Of course, I'll never know what it's like to be gay, and be (sadly) looked down upon by society because of it, but I can at least keep my big mouth shut and let the experts (i.e. the actual GLBT's) do the talking.

[canis_lupus]

21. Thanks

I think you understand our feelings more than "sort of."

There aren't a lot of people on DU who I'd label "homophobic" - at least not in the way that far-right political and religious zealots are. But there are many folks who I'd call heterosexist because they've never seen LGBT issues through our eyes. It's easy to be dismissive of a group when you've never "walked in their shoes." Unlike real homophobes, these people are reachable and teachable. Unfortunately, it requires them to take a step beyond their comfort zone. Once they do that it usually marks an "Aha!" moment for them and they move from being tepid supporters (at best) to being true allies.

[meegbear]

22. Well it may get worse before it gets better ...

remember the '04 election when posters shitheads were posting how it was 'teh gays' fault for losing it? But I also remember posters countering, saying they stand with us and if you're going to blame them, you're no friend of mine.

I'm sure the vitrol won't be as bad, but I'll deal with the douchebags for a while.

[xchrom]

23. recommend

[racaulk]

25. I feel unwelcome also.

In the Democratic Party, I am valuable for a vote every two years, but that's it.

Funny thing, I had this idea in my head as a teenager (when I was first realizing that I'm gay) that the Democratic Party was the "pro-gay" party and the Republican Party was the "anti-gay" party (Clinton was running for his first term when I was in high school, and at the time, I truly thought he was on our side). I have foolishly believed that all these years and have voted a straight Democratic ticket in every election since I was first able to vote in 1994. I look back now and wonder what good I have received for my support...and I don't see a lot.

Speaking strictly of party leadership, I am realizing now that the Democratic Party is not "pro-gay." Both parties are "anti-gay," just to different degrees. The Republican Party has surely lived up to what I always thought it was, but the Democratic Party has been a huge disappointment. We get lip service from the Party establishment, and nothing more.

Also to me, DU has become an increasingly hostile place to be for GLBT persons, especially over the last few months. In this primary season, supporters of both remaining candidates have reveled in being vile and rude to us in the name of scoring points in this never-ending game of political oneupmanship. And they're not just being homophobic, but transphobic as well. All the crap that I saw in the threads about Thomas Beatie made me want to alternately vomit and weep at the narrow-mindedness of certain members of our "party of inclusiveness." And that shit is still on this board, unaltered and undeleted by the mods, for the assholes here to still broadcast their bigotry to everyone.

I love what this site is, or at least what it used to be. DU is becoming something I don't recognize anymore, and I will be thinking long and hard before I donate to this site again.

It's not just you, terrya. Others are feeling it too. :pals: