Does anyone remember seeing posted here "A heaven without gays"

[dsc]

which was about a heaven where there was no Sistene Chappel etc. We had a very interesting announcement at my school for black history month about what life would be like without the inventions that blacks invented. I thought this would be a cool counterpoint for gays.

[theredpen]

1. Fuck the Sistine chapel

How screwed would the world be if Alan Turing hadn't been there to break Nazi ciphers in WWII?

(All due respect to the Sistine chapel... but history without Alan Turing would be pretty grim.)

[DarkTirade]

2. Not to mention the whole getting us into the computer age thing.

So without him we'd be typing on typewriters in german. As opposed to speaking in l33t on computers.

[UncleSepp]

3. Konrad Zuse would have filled that void.

Yes, things would have been horrid for the world without him (Turing), but be realistic. Lack of technology, including computers, was not one of the shortcomings of the Germans in World War Two. Also, without gay folks, the world would have been missing one Ernst Roehm - and most of the leadership of the early SA he led.

[dsc]

4. he also broke the enigma

[UncleSepp]

5. Yes, that he did - an impressive and critical feat. n/t

[readmoreoften]

7. I don't think queers were somehow "crucial" to the Third Reich.

Yes, there were a few highly placed fags who were eventually eliminated. But the Pink Swastika thing is a right-wing talking point I think we can deal without.

[UncleSepp]

8. There's a reason I didn't cite "The Pink Swastika"

I didn't mention it specifically because it IS such a giant, steaming turd. My original point was that Konrad Zuse was also developing programmable computers. My secondary point is that gay people, just like any other people, contribute to the world in ways that are good, bad, and indifferent. If we're going to speak of one gay scientist as if he were irreplacable in the Allied war effort, we can't also minimize the contributions of a gay organizer to the success of the early Nazi party without losing a measure of honesty and becoming ourselves propagandists for our own cause.

BTW, I am gay, transgendered, attend a synagogue, and speak very good German. I have studied National Socialism, its history, and its modern offshoots for close to twenty years through reading and through personal interactions with surviving and current activists. My primary interests have been the study of propaganda and of the Time of Struggle. I'm not saying this because I think it makes my opinion more valid than anyone else's; I'm saying it to defuse any potential misunderstandings about my point of view and its basis.

[DarkTirade]

6. Looking up others online...

and found out that the composer I was named after was rumored to be bi, but there isn't much in the way of proof floating about.

Got a great quote from him upon his first discovering the brand new wax cylinder phonograph...


Dear Mr. Edison, ...I can only say that I am astonished and somewhat terrified at the result of this evening's experiments: astonished at the wonderful power you have developed, and terrified at the thought that so much hideous and bad music may be put on record forever. But all the same I think it is the most wonderful thing that I have ever experienced, and I congratulate you with all my heart on this wonderful discovery.

Whether he was actually bi or not, he was certainly a man after my own heart. :P

According to some of these sites, Tchaikovsky was also gay. And in his case there's a bit more evidence floating about.