Gay vs Pedophile

[jhrobbins]

The thing that is being blurred here is the dynamic between the fact that Mark Foley is gay and that the object of his interest seem to be young boys (which then directs us to the notion hat he is most likely a pedophile). This is a problem for me because I know that the conservative pundits are going to blur the difference and there is a BIG difference.
Also, I heard Pat Buchanan say the other day that the age of consent in DC is 16. Is this true?

[kenny blankenship]

1. No age of consent involved in sexual harrassment of subordinates

and pages serving in the Congress are truly the most subordinate of workplace subordinates, cast in the image of feudal paternalism. (they leave their parental home and live under a roof provided by the adult employers they serve, and are policed by their employers--they are more or less completely entrusted to the care of their masters who're not just employers and adults, but authorities and lawmakers) Apparently 16 is age of consent in DC from what I've heard on television and online discussions happening here. However, the law Foley championed, which is a federal law, makes it a crime to engage in sexually explicit communication with anyone under 18 over the internet. Legal considerations like these are separate from issues of gross ethical violations--the sexual harrassment by a Congressman of pages (the minor status of the victim just makes it worse) and the follow-on ethical violations contained in the mishandling of Foley's behavior by Reynolds, Hastert and who knows who else in the House Republican Leadership. Then there's the completely separate matter of the FBI/Gonzales Justice Dept. non-investigation. Loads of legal misdeeds to investigate here.

[BOSSHOG]

2. To all Gays on DU

I love you guys. You have taken a beating here and elsewhere on this issue. Republican blurring is nothing new.

Being a "conservative" republican is repugnant and more and more Americans are discovering that on an hourly basis. If they were as honest as the gay community they wouldn't be grappling with this bruhaha.

And to wander on an issue just a tad: If gays can't marry and can't join the military then why should they pay taxes?

[pat_k]

3. In Reality there's no connection, but to homophobes, it is the same thing.

. . .and a Congressman preying on pages is not why the core of the core of the Republican Party has is NOT why they are horrified.

This is ALL about homophobia. They are horrified that the people they put in power are harboring homosexuals (Kirk Fordam -- more to be revealed) in their midst.

The truth (no connection) is irrelevant. No one needs to "blur the lines." To homophobes, there is no line. (And when did reality ever get in the way of what they believe or do?)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2323080&mesg_id=2323080

And, BTW, on the topic of reality, pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children.

Preying on teenagers is illegal, but I'm not sure it carries a DSM label.

[applegrove]

4. Sorry for this. Seems when ever a pedophile who is hetero is found -

he or she is described as a pedophile. Whenever gay pedophile is found.. it turns into a "gay" thing. That is so sad. An adult you likes young teens is, regardless of sexual orientation, warped & sick. That is all that needs to be said. The gay thing should be left out of it.

[jhrobbins]

5. I am certainly not going to try and defend what Foley did...

but something you said sparked a new thought. In DC apparently, the age of consent is 16, so this puts this in a different light in one way. Of course, according to sexual harrassement law, it is the power differential that is the factor and this could certainly apply here. Also, the fact that most pages , I am guessing want to pursue some interest in politics and pissing off a US congressman could be construed as a power differential. But it is that age of consent thing that has me thrown a bit. I think it is a bit weird that DC has this kind of statute, but nevertheless, there it is. So, is he a pedophile or just a gay man with sad,pathetic attraction to hopelessly younger men. I have seen a lot of those in my life, in fact it is rather iconic in the gay community and society at large too.

[Jemmons]

6. I thought about this yesterday and looked up a few definitions

It turns out that pedophili is defined as being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children, that is, to humans not yet sexually matured in the biological sense.

"During puberty boys and girls go through some of the greatest physical changes of their lives. Their bodies grow faster than during any other period of life except infancy (66, 201, 471, 537). Secondary sex characteristics develop during a hormonally driven growth spurt. These dramatic physical changes generally occur over a 5-year period but may take as little as 18 months or as long as six years (35, 66, 201, 281). A group of 14-year-olds may include boys and girls who still look like children as well as some whose bodies are those of adult men or women (114)."

The average age of puberty has been decreased by three to four months each decade after 1850 among US girls, something which is thought to be explained with better nutrition.

Puberty in boys is defined by a set of devellopments in testicular size, function, and fertility, body growth and the 97th percentile age of atainment of the defined stages is 16 y 6 m for boys. Indicators of puberty atainment are potent attractions for both sexes: Heigth in men and breasts in women. Reproduction is helped when sexual instincts are sensitive to onset and completion of puberty (and thus reproductive cappability).

There is nothing to suggest that Foley is a pedophile in this sense, BUT:
"In contrast to the generally accepted medical definition, the term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote significantly older adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents below the local age of consent".
To my mind this has more to do with insulting the parrents than with perversion of biological sexual drives, but it is not recomended if you want to label yourself as a saint in society.

As age of puberty falls for biological reasons the legal age of consent (if it is not adjusted) becomes more and more related to the interests of parrents and less to the biological dynamics and reproduction.


http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/j41/j41chap1_2.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

[justin899]

7. Yes, the word for for a situation involving an older teen isn't pedophilia

it's Ephebophilia. An obscure word rarely used, but it bugs me to no end for people to suggest there is no difference between an incident involving a REAL child and an incident involving an older TEEN.