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Obama: "We may disagree about gay marriage..."

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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 07:28 AM
Original message
Obama: "We may disagree about gay marriage..."
Edited on Fri Feb-05-10 07:54 AM by t0dd
I suppose its fine for us to disagree about interracial marriage too, right? Or how about a woman's right to vote? How about slavery? I'm sure there are merits to all of these too, right?

I know progress is slow in this country, but is it really necessary for him, at a National Prayer Breakfast of all places, to make such cautionary and centrist remarks on the topic? Why doesn't he just not say anything? Oh, I guess he's just guided by his "faith".

Whatever he does say will just be replayed by NOM against the gay community. I can see it now: "Duhnunuh. There's a storm coming. President Obama thinks we 'may disagree about gay marriage', so why are radical activists trying to take away your right to disagree? Let the people vote, or what else won't we have a 'say in'? (huge image of a polygamous man marrying his wheelbarrow and pet ferret appears).. The horror!!"

Then again, maybe he'll refute their attacks!

Nah, that's something a fierce advocate would do.

Oh, Great Mediator, you don't support gay marriage, we get it, but at least have the decency to not mention it at all since anything you do say will be used against us. Gay couples are constantly made to feel inferior because their rights are determined by a "moral majority" that are the final arbiters on what constitutes a loving relationship. Try not being the spokesperson for a vicious organization that only wants to abase homosexuals and prolong their suffering. Thanks!
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is ONE guy who should NEVER use the phrase "we may disagree..."
Edited on Fri Feb-05-10 07:39 AM by Ken Burch
At least not with the people he's trying to get to VOTE Democratic.


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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R. Thank you for speaking so wisely about the level of thoughtlessness
that can add more harm to those who are being discriminated against.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Then don't marry a man, President Obama
This is one of the areas where I wish he would keep his mouth shut. His words are used against the LGBT community.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. How the hell does someone as smart as he is
NOT believe in EQUAL RIGHTS? By definition, it's the fair and right thing to do. What the fuck is so hard to understand?
For that matter, how does someone that smart believe in an old man who lives in the clouds and hears our every word?
It's like believing in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy,for fuck's sake.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. But supporting equality might make the Republicans not like him!
(Of course, they already hate him anyway, but maybe if he just turns into Ronald Reagan then maybe they will love him.)
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Bigotry isn't rooted in intelligence but fear n/t
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. But one usually finds baseless fears in the ignorant, not in
Constitutional law professors - especially one who is, I'm sure - familiar with discrimination. He will never get a pass on this from me.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. +1
:patriot:
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TokenQueer Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Right on!
:fistbump:
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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Good point, muffin1!
I've always thought of homophobia as the same thing as racism. Someone "choosing" to be gay is like someone in 1950s Alabama "choosing" to be black.

People should not be denied equal rights based on popular opinion or even popular vote. If the advancement of civil rights depended on popular vote, blacks would still be sitting in the back of the bus, and they still wouldn't have the vote. (That's why Proposition 8 pisses me off so much.)

Wanna know how Canada ended up allowing same-sex marriage? The Charter of Rights in the Canadian Constitution outlaws discrimination based on the usual things - race, religion, etc., but there isn't anything about sexual orientation. However, a couple of years ago, the Supreme Court basically ruled that discrimination is discrimination, even if it's for something not covered in the Charter. I'm hoping that the challenge to Proposition 8 gets a similar ruling.

BTW, Mr. President, doesn't America have freedom of religion? That means more than the right to choose between different Christian denominations.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Didn't he say their policies were odious?
It's a start.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, he said the kill the gay legislation in Uganda is 'odious'
But yeah, sure! that's a start! I'm glad he doesn't think gay people should be murdered! :eyes:
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. ok
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. they were praising him to the heavens here yesterday for that
Edited on Fri Feb-05-10 08:32 AM by jonnyblitz
comment like it was a very brave thing to come out against not killing gays. I was surprised at my restraint yesterday. :crazy:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Such Courage! No lesser politican could ever have said that!
:eyes:

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Marriage equality is the only issue his alleged faith seems to influence.
All that scripture about comforting the downtrodden and feeding the hungry and making peace, he never has much to say about it, but let the subject turn to queers who want to be treated like people and all of a sudden he's a Southern Baptist.

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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. I wish vast numbers of people of faith would confront him on THAT.
:(
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dickthegrouch Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. And a Constitutional Scholar who can't understand
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 12:56 PM by dickthegrouch
the difference between an "establishment of religion" (Matrimony) and a creation of the State (Civil Marriage) must have missed a few important lessons in his education.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obama shouldn't say "we" if he disagrees with us.
Oddly, that phrase is quite patronizing when used that way. He should say "I personally don't agree with the idea of . . . " which is different from implying that he carries the final say so.

I can easily say I "don't like" abortion and wouldn't choose to have one if it were possible to find myself preggers, BUT that does not mean I would claim states rights override a woman's right to choose for herself.

For a lawyer he can be pretty obtuse sometimes.
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lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree with you, but for the love of pete...
DO NOT equate not being able to get married with slavery.

Doing so makes you look like a clueless white guy.

I'm taking an Atlantic History course right now - and trust me, there is NO COMPARISON between the systemic violence of the trans-Atlantic slave trade and same-sex marriage not being legal.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oh Lord, here we go...
I don't doubt for a minute that a fair number of the religious right in this country would beat or kill GLBTers en masse if they could get away with it. As we speak, the religious nutjobs in this country are traveling to Uganda to spread just that kind of hatred, culminating in a bill that demands the death penalty for gay people.

Discrimination of ANY kind is WRONG. I'm so sick of hearing, "But, my pain is GREATER". We all suffer when we allow discrimination to flourish.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. +1
:patriot:
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Oh, How Some People LOVE To Play Oppression Olympics
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Nobody here equated marriage equality and slavery.
Edited on Fri Feb-05-10 05:59 PM by QC
Responding to what people actually say is more likely to lead to a productive discussion.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. ...


We aren't having a discrimination contest here. If you had actually read my post, I'm emphasizing the absurdity of looking at "both sides of the issue" when it comes to discrimination. It doesn't make sense to because any kind of discrimination is wrong. Please see post #15.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. RIGHT ON!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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dickthegrouch Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-05-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Prop 8 trial talked about 'Political Powerlessness'
I cannot understand why they didn't use Biden's statement from the VP debate as an example of how badly we are being undercut at every turn by the pols.

Now we have further evidence which I firmly believe should be submitted to the court.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
24. By the context, he was suggesting that he actually disagrees with NOM et al. regarding gay marriage.
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 01:33 AM by Unvanguard
As the representative of the liberal side in the partisan divide in the parallel structure of that part of his speech.

Obviously Obama has made clear his public opposition to marriage equality (though from some older comments of his, and my own best guess about a liberal academic, I'd bet he actually supports it), but this position comes to very little effect at the federal level.

You are definitely right, though, about the rhetoric of post-partisanship, especially applied to this issue: there is no reason to "agree to disagree" about a basic question of civil equality. I guess I understand the politics of saying what he said, but it still made me rather angry to read. Opposing equal rights is not some trivial policy dispute.
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. That was the take that Signorile was suggesting on his show yesterday...
that Obama, at the Prayer Breakfast was telling the fundies that we may disagree on same sex marriage. Sig took it as a sign that Obama is starting to change his stance on the issue.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. I've Said It Before and I'll Say It Again: Obama, STFU About Gay issues
You are not our ally, and we can do without your "help". Just take a cue from Bush and pretend we don't exist.
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