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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:03 PM
Original message
How did you learn to communicate clearly?
What techniques did you use?

Also, how did you learn to detect your own invalid reasoning and avoid relying upon it? How have you learned to construct step-by-step reasoning that consists of valid reasoning at every step?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Commnicate a lot. Listen a lot. Ask a lot of questions. Get others to talk a lot.
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 08:56 PM by patrice
Ask more questions. Ask people what THEY mean by specific words they are using. Every time they give an answer, ask them about what they mean by specific things they've said in their answers. Explain why. Ask why. Give and ask for examples. Brainstorm other questions together. Compare everything you hear/say/read to everything else you hear/say/read. Compare and contrast any/every/thing to standardized sources and to subject matter experts. Don't be afraid of negative assessments, just keep them on the issue and avoid personal attacks, especially implied ones. Don't be distracted from y/our objective by personal attacks or negativity. Be prepared to receive negative assessments. If something is personal identify it as such. Focus all assessments on the issue or related issues at hand. Keep an open mind. Ask for open minds. Honestly and as completely as possible, stand by the values that you have already internalized. Recognize that others have the right to honestly do so too. Ask them to do so. Recognize that what appears to be lies are often lack of information or error and test for this possibility frequently. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. P.S. How is a good question too. Ask how. Explain how. nt
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Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. I say screw a bunch of valid (conventional wisdom) reasoning.
I have always held to the belief that 'valid reasoning' is the property of Prisoners in Tall Buildings.

To me, there are no dynamics in conventional wisdom unless you are a mechanic (of whatever sort).

I never wanted to be someone who had to adhere to formula.

So I did not go there.

I am now almost 60 years of age and have never held a paycheck job - ever.

I learned to communicate clearly and to judge intent as a child.

Long story, but I have never had to work or to answer to anyone because I was taught to never accept convention.

It is so fine to find a thought-provoking post, Boojatta. I always look forward to your posts and I always read your replies to other OPs.

I hope that doesn't sound too weird.

Thank you,
Sonoman
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You wrote "Long story" but I would prefer a longer story.
I am now almost 60 years of age and have never held a paycheck job - ever.

You described what you didn't do. Can you say more about what you did do: your system, your strategies, your methods? Or is this a situation where people wish to know, and ask to be told, but will claw back their appreciation as soon as you grant them their wish?

Mr. Jabez Wilson laughed heavily. "Well, I never!" said he. "I thought at first that you had done something clever, but I see that there was nothing in it, after all."

"I begin to think, Watson," said Holmes, "that I make a mistake in explaining. 'Omne ignotum pro magnifico,' (Everything unknown is taken for magnificent)

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Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Goodness, gracious, what a wonderful reply...
When I was a child my Grandfather gave me a job. I was maybe 7 years of age.

My Job was to stand in the entrance of his Farm and Feed store and determine if the guys who walked in were there to do business or to drink whiskey and play checkers or 5-Card-Stud.

There was an imaginary line, maybe 5-7 feet inside the door. Past that point, I was expected to make the call.

No amount of schooling/instruction can teach that.

I never attended any school. I just could not get to one. I just read and listened.

Long story...

Sonoman
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Reading
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 09:58 PM by JohnnyRingo
When I was a very young man in the early '60s I would close myself in a closet for hours and pore over comic books. When congress criticized the industry for feeding children garbage the themes changed abruptly to "Little Lulu goes to Australia" or "Dennis The Menace in the Mitchels visit Washington DC". I don't know at what point I caught on and said "Hey! They're teaching me!", but beside the geography facts and history lessons I picked up, those hours spent taught me to spot sentence and spelling structures.

Later, since my mother subscribed to many of the popular magazines of the era, I would read "The Saturday Evening Post" and "Life" on the same day they arrived. The "Readers Digest" expanded my word wealth and introduced me to the short story that furthered my ability to find the vocabulary to convert my thoughts into expressed words. "Sick", "Cracked", and "Mad Mazagine" (sic) brought the love of subtle satiric humor into the conversion process.

With the advent of video games, Twitter, and reality shows, I fear those skills are fading into the obsolete edges of society. While there's plenty to read on the internet, I'm afraid the latest generations spend more time passively watching moving objects and misspelling words like "Chex", Valu", and "Xpress". I'm sure many today would "Laugh Out Loud" at my concern, but society is failing to maintain the ability to communicate on a cognizant level.

RIF. Reading Is Fundamental, and with a library in town I've never in my life discarded a book after I've read it. I only wish people could find them. (I still have those old comic books though)
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Different techniques for different kinds of communication.
Written communication- mostly through osmosis by reading a lot.

Verbal communication- I was quite shy until my early 30s so this was really tough for me. What helped the most was teaching ESL. Having it be my job to talk to people seven hours a day forced me to come up with strategies to engage them. And working with ESL students teaches you how to grade your level of language to the audience and how to use body language and quickly drawn pictures to get your point across when you can see someone isn't understanding. I'd totally recommend volunteering to anyone who wants to overcome shyness or improve their verbal communication skills.

Critique- I learned by example. Honestly, from Calvin and Hobbes and Doonesbury and later Hunter S. Thompson. I learned to detect my own invalid reasoning by arguing with people and either having my mistakes pointed out to me or noticing the mistakes of others. Step-by-step reasoning- also arguing and having my ass handed to me. It felt like crap, so I made sure in the future that I constructed my arguments more carefully.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:40 PM
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8. Kick
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:57 PM
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9. Deleted message
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:17 PM
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10. Writing 20-second radio spots
I had to unlearn a lot of very bad writing habits doing that.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kick
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