Help! Writing a nice letter rejecting a university's generous offer.

[Duppers]

Here's the details: (Yay, a chance to brag about my kid! :) )

My son has been admitted into Johns Hopkins' PhD program in physics, which includes a very generous offer of support. He was thrilled and accepted their offer to come visit with their faculty this coming week.

Here's the problem: Since accepting their offer to visit, he has been accepted into Cornell's grad program too, which ranks #7 in the country in physics! Yes indeed, we all were very excited...and proud!

He feels he must turn down Johns Hopkins' offer, including their all-expenses-paid offer to visit. His dad and I have encouraged him to at least visit there, but just an hour ago he said if he's not planning to attend Hopkins, why should he visit, wasting their time? His dad and I can think of many good reasons (Networking for one: they have a faculty member in HIS field publishing with the famous Lisa Randall). But he wants to turn them down, not only their offer of admittance, but their offer to visit as well.

Opinions?

A nice letter will have to be written. Does he mention the school he has decided to attend or not?


(How many people would like to have his problem! :+ )

[BlooInBloo]

1. I'd do it over the phone with the appropriate member of the grad faculty....

I also wouldn't make any firm decision until all paid-visit offers had been done.

That 2 week trip around the country was one of the best damn times of my life.


EDIT: And thank you for providing the country with a non-idiot.

EDITEDIT: Does he yet have a specific area he wants to focus in? Or is that TBD?

[Duppers]

4. thanks!

Nope, not TBD. He has his field firmly picked.

Over the phone? Not thought of that. I thought a nice, 'smail' letter would be nice.

I'll run this passed him.

Thanks!

[zazen]

2. congrats! could you ask his soon-to-be adviser at Cornell?

I probably don't have to tell you that his networking begins _now._ So not only an nice letter but maybe even a nice phone message to the adviser who thought they'd have him at Johns Hopkins would be in order, because there's a chance he'll be applying there in 4-6 years for a job. Hopefully, his new adviser at Cornell will be flattered to be asked for such mentorly advice and will appreciate that your son is considerate and respectful of his "superiors."

[yorgatron]

3. why is your son so positive that he'd ratrher attend one than the other?

he should go visit anyway,they may have more to offer than he originally thought,especially if they can pony up for a trip to check it out.

[Duppers]

7. agreed.

Hopkins' budget is down and all their faculty has taken a 5% pay cut, is one reason we don't want to further burden them with paying for his trip.

But Hopkins is dear to our hearts, since my hubby had the most excellent medical treatment there.

But in physics, they rank #20th in the country vs. #7 for Cornell. Most folks would chose Cornell, an Ivy league school.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/phy/search


edited to thank you!

[Duppers]

6. Excellent points!

I added 'networking' to my post before reading your reply. His dad is almost to the point of insisting on that he go now.

Hopkins' letter said they were 'deeply' interested in him. I've sent him 3 emails since speaking to him tonight encouraging him to reconsider his decision not to look them over.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

[pnwmom]

5. I would strongly encourage him to visit both programs, and not choose

Cornell merely because of their higher overall ranking. When you're looking at schools as strong as those two, the overall department rankings are not as important as the professional qualifications of your son's chosen advisor and what kind of research he'll have an opportunity to do with him or her.

There are many factors to consider, including your son's particular research interests, the size of the department, who he might like to choose for an advisor, the terms of the financial offers, etc. If I were your son, I'd give Johns Hopkins a chance to make its case. You might even get one or both of the schools to sweeten their offers.

If he goes on both visits, he also has the chance to give presentations and make positive impressions on both sets of faculty, which could assist him in the future, no matter where he chooses to study next year.

As for your other question, if he's just going to turn Johns Hopkins down cold, I wouldn't mention Cornell in the letter. If Johns Hopkins wants to know, they'll probably ask him.

[Duppers]

8. You're so right and I agree

But Cornell not only has a much higher ranking but a larger dept., including more faculty in his research area. But they are being more vague about his funding. Hopkins was very definite and generous, despite their budget cuts. And Hopkins has a faculty member working with Lisa Randall (at Harvard) who will be receiving a Nobel some time in the future--for sure. Networking is always good.

I appreciate all the feedback and have decided to join my hubby in insisting that he go for the visit, even if we pay his transportation and not let Hopkins pick up that tab. Their paying for his room and meals is enough. (As I mentioned in a post above Hopkins' faculty has taken pay cuts recently. And after my hubby's excellent medical treatment for cancer there, we cannot thank them enough.)

So thanks, pnwmom. You always offer good advice!

[pnwmom]

11. My daughter and her husband went through this a few years ago,

and they were lucky to have the advice of family members on both sides in the academic and scientific world. In the end, though, it just comes down to an educated guess -- but better to be as educated as you can, and that means going on the visits!

Here's one more piece of free advice: think carefully about choosing an advisor who doesn't have tenure yet. Even under the best of circumstances, your son will feel more pressure working for such an advisor -- because both of their jobs will be depending (at least in part) on your son's research. And under the worst of circumstances, if the advisor doesn't get tenure, then your son would have to switch horses midstream.

The best of luck to your son. How nice to have good news these days!

Feel free to p.m. me if you have any more questions.

[Duppers]

12. More excellent advice

That's a point I had forgotten about. I'll pass this on.

He really wanted into MIT in the worst way, but after visiting both Harvard and MIT last summer, we all fell in love with Harvard....and were even invited to Arthur Jaffe's house near campus! We went and spent almost 2 hrs talking with him! Amazing warmth there.

His hopes for Harvard have greatly dimmed since, as it is our understanding, they've already sent out their first choice letters. He has a 3.8 average, but his 75 percentile GRE scores kicked him in the teeth (he did not sleep the night before taking them). IF he gets wait-listed and gets an offer, you'll hear the biggest shout from me, posting here and in the lounge! ;)

Thanks for your kind offer to PM you. If I think of more questions, you'll hear from me!

:)

edited for verb agreement.

[GoesTo11]

16. There are books about how to choose a PhD program and succeed in grad school

Worth spending the $20 bucks for a couple of those.

I don't think it's a slam dunk to choose Cornell over JH. On a log scale, #20 and # 7 aren't that far apart and the tyranny of rankings shouldn't be the only consideration (same goes for MIT and Harvard, really). I note that none of the schools he wanted has a good football team. Oh well.

If JH has solid funding, and Cornell doesn't, he may end up scrambling around doing scut work to get funding and that could slow down grad school by a year or two. Cornell is a small town with lousy winters, while JH is smack in the heart of one actually fairly cool city that is close to other cities. At Cornell, he would be a small fish. With his grades vs. GRE profile, sounds like the closer he works with someone the more they would recognize his talent, and at a big program with lots of people with varying degrees of funding, the faculty might tend to typecast students pretty quickly. At JH, he's almost sure to finish with a Ph.D., but at Cornell, there may be some obstacles. In the end, what he does is more important than where he goes. Coming out with some good articles written while in school would make a difference in placement.

It would also be worth checking out where students from each school place. Not just the best students they brag about, but where does a good applicant of typical ability (who might be one of the best at JH and middle of the pack at Cornell) place?

Your son's instinct to not go if he has made up his mind shows that he is responsible - it really would be dishonest and would take away a visit for some other student if he absolutely won't go there. But if there's even a 5% chance he would decide to go there, I think it's fair to take them up on the offer to visit. He will learn more about how different schools work and he will meet more good people in the field - and he should treat every meeting as a first meeting with future lifelong colleagues.

Good luck and congratulations on whatever good opportunity he ends up taking.

[sandnsea]

9. Johns Hopkins would want him to come

They would encourage him to come, even if he is sure he will never attend. They want him to come to convince him of the superiority of their program. If he wants to take a free trip, tell him to call Johns Hopkins and tell them he is 90% sure he will accept to Cornell program. Leave it to Johns Hopkins to tell him not to come. I seriously doubt they will do that.

And WOW, Congratulations!!

[Duppers]

10. thanks, he has worked so very hard

We live on the east coast and Baltimore (Hopkins) is just 4 hrs away, depending on traffic. I've decided to drive him up to save Hopkins the expense of transportation.

I've already made my reservations in Baltimore's inner harbor!

Thanks for the advice. It's definite now; his dad and I are going to insist he go, if for no other reason than the NETWORKING opportunity it will provide!

:)

[Why Syzygy]

13. Just read through the thread

and, I'm glad to hear that. Do you think he might see Condi on campus? ;)

[Duppers]

14. nope, wrong campus, wrong coast

"Condoleezza Rice, previously secretary of state, resumed her Stanford University roles as a political-science professor and senior fellow at its Hoover Institution think tank."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123518630430139343.html

It's disappointing that a great school such as Stanford would accept her back.

[Why Syzygy]

15. oops.

Oh. I think it was Paulson. I just skimmed something today. One of the neo's got a job at John Hopkins. But, I could be wrong about that also. :blush: I can't find the link right now.

edit: I'm tracking it down. brb

"A handful of Bush cabinet officers have accepted academic appointments," reported the paper. "Former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson joined Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies as a fellow. Condoleezza Rice, previously secretary of state, resumed her Stanford University roles as a political-science professor and senior fellow at its Hoover Institution think tank."
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/For_exBush_officials_nearly_75_percent_0221.html

[electron_blue]

17. I wouldn't bother with a letter, call instead. But first he should visit JH.

Seriously, he needs to take that trip. I say this as someone with a PHD in physics who made a final decision about where to attend after taking all those free trips. In one case, I was shocked at how bad the grad program was in a top ranked physics department. There was no sign of this from the outside, but the 2 day visit was terribly enlightening. To give you an idea of the problems - several faculty who worked in the area/specialty that I wanted to work in - told all the visiting grad student candidates that they would not take anymore new students for the foreseeable future. This was huge. A bonus of going on-site is that you get to talk privately with current graduate students, who might tell you that 90% of all students flunked the comprehensive exams last month. Count on it - you will learn many things, good and bad, not shown in the brochures, websites and mentioned by the recruiters.

Cornell is not that much better than Johns Hopkins in physics, all things considered. What will matter infinitely more to your son's career is who your son's doctoral advisor is, how well connected he ends up being, and how much support he has from his department.

He should go visit JH and Cornell both and then make up his mind. Even if Cornell won't pay for the trip (I couldn't tell from your post whether they have offered), he should find the money to check them out himself.

Good luck!