"Does a woman's health have value?"

[LiviaOlivia]

A Matter Of Life And Health
Karen Pearl
July 25, 2005

Karen Pearl is interim president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America

In the fight over the future of our reproductive freedoms, it's sometimes the quiet battles that take the heaviest toll.

~snip~

What's At Stake

Under consideration in Ayotte v. Planned Parenthood is a 2003 New Hampshire abortion restriction that targets young women and does not include a health exception. This lack of a health exception is why the law was found unconstitutional in two federal courts that followed Supreme Court precedent in the 2000 Stenberg v. Carhart decision. That decision affirmed that protecting a woman's health must always take priority in laws restricting access to abortion.

Veteran court watchers were surprised, to say the least, when the court agreed to hear Ayotte . Two issues that have wide-ranging implications for women's health and access to reproductive health care will be examined in the case. The first is how the court looks at abortion restrictions. The second is whether laws that restrict abortion must have a health exception.

If the court decides to change the way it looks at abortion restrictions, protecting a woman's access to abortion services could become much more difficult. Right now, an abortion restriction can be struck down if it would harm a large fraction of the women affected by it. In Ayotte, the New Hampshire attorney general argues that the court should change the way it looks at restrictions so a law is only unconstitutional if every woman is harmed by it.

By re-examining the way it looks at this issue, the court will, in essence, decide how many women must be hurt before a law is ruled unconstitutional. Put another way, the question before the court is, "Does a woman's health have value?" Should a woman be denied access to emergency care just because most women will never need it? Do women matter?

~snip~

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050725/a_matter_of_life_and_health.php

[HockeyMom]

1. They say "abortion is NEVER necessary to save the life of the mother"

I wrote to them based on my own experience. I had an ectopic pregnancy. Ever hear of a baby being delivered from a fallopian tube? They SHUT UP immediately. Not ONE answered me.

These people are so blinded by RELIGION, they cannot see ANYTHING ELSE.

[Ysolde]

2. Thanks for the post, I think...

It almost makes me cry to think that here, in the USA, in the 21st century, my daughter's life could be valued so much less than my son's. Can you imagine those highlighted words EVER being applied to men? Sometimes, seeing it in print really knocks the wind out of me. I know what I'm fighting for and why I've stopped tolerating the Fundies (in my family and out), but sometimes it feels hopeless.

[Kerrytravelers]

3. "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

[kestrel91316]

4. A woman's health is of no concern unless she is with child ...............

then it is VERY IMPORTANT to keep her healthy until she delivers. Then it is perfectly alright to cast aside the empty womb/woman because it has served its purpose.

Welcome to the Republic of Gilead

[MountainLaurel]

8. Now, it depends on the woman

Inner-city, low-income minority women or rural poor white: definitely not a concern when you look at the availability of prenatal care, attention to the abuse of pregnant women, and social services. Many don't see a doctor until the birth, which helps to explain why certain areas in the United States have infant mortality rates comparable to those in Third World nations.

[REP]

5. Abortion Saved My Life and I Didn't Even Know It

Of course I have always, always known that I did not want to be a mother, and that if forced to carry to term I'd probably commit suicide if I couldn't induce a miscarriage. I'm not talking about that sort of saved my life; pro-liars don't care about that anyway.

No, I mean it literally saved my life. I have a kidney disease that is unusual in young white women with normal blood pressure (but not rare; the form I have is known as idiopathic), and nobody ever thought to test me for it. It does make pregnancy exceptionally dangerous and women with this disease are advised to avoid pregnancy. Nobody knew I had it then, but I did. If the pro-liars had had their way, I'd be long dead.

Incidentally, it was at that clinic that I first learned I had an enormous amount of protein in my urine and needed further testing to determine why.

I don't think I'm all that unusual. I'm sure there are many, many other women who had an unwanted pregnancy terminated who also had an unknown health problem that would have made continuing that pregnancy dangerous or deadly.

[Nobody]

6. How many times have you heard...

"... the woman's point of view" as several men and one woman make up a balanced panel to discuss an issue, any issue.

Women are not thought of as individuals, even today, by many people.

I've even heard it:

Quote from a co-worker: "but but don't ALL women want to be mothers?" when I mentioned in a conversation that I didn't want kids. I suppose every woman values high gas mileage but tell that to the woman who drove into the parking lot with a Hummer yesterday.

Another quote, this time from a customer in 1985: "You're a gas station attendant? I suppose women can do the same jobs that people can do." I leave you to pick up your jaws and come up with your own reactions. keep in mind this was 1985, not 1895.

With attitudes like these, is it any wonder than women's health is secondary to everyone else's, even a clump of cells residing in the woman's uterus?

[Hello_Kitty]

7. "but but don't ALL women want to be mothers?"

Of all the false gender myths, I believe the so-called maternal instinct is by far the most egregious. Many women are NOT maternal or nurturing and should not be having children but do unintentionally or because it's expected of them. The results are tragic and disastrous.

I also don't want kids and have gotten similar comments to that one. When someone kneejerk reacts like that, I have to wonder about them. I think a lot of them are projecting some of their own issues on to me, probably without even realizing it.

[Heddi]

9. Dude, I think I'd go to jail if I had kids

I have NO maternal instinct. NONE WHATSOEVER.

My husband also has just as little desire as I do to be a parent.

When people hear that we've been married for 5 years, are professionals, etc, AND they find out that we don't have kids (and don't want kids) they give us this pittiful look like our gonads are broken or something.

One woman I worked with asked me (this was when I was about 25 or so) if I had kids. I said no, and she said "Oh gosh, I'm so sorry" and I'm like "Don't be sorry. Be happy. If I had kids, THEN you could be sorry...for the kids"

My uterus isn't broken.
My womb isn't filled with cobwebs
My husband doesn't shoot blanks
Yes, he is potent.

Sheesh. You'd think we were telling people that we pulled the wings off of live flies instead of tellling them that we had no kids and had no plans for kids in the future.

I know PLENTY of people who have had kids becacuse they think that's what they HAVE to do--they're married, they're 24..why, OF COURSE! Next on the list is having kids. And these are the same people who don't understand--you're not having a BABY, you're having a PERSON. you have to RASIE it and DO A GOOD JOB AT IT. Nope. Everything they need to know about raising children can be found in the back pages of Ladies Home Journal and that's all they need to know.

They treat their children like they're little accessories...like a shoe, or a toy-dog. They give them the 'hot' new name like Jaydelynne or Kaiytelynnnnnnnnne" or "Ayshleyghe". Ugh. YOU CANNOT FIT THOSE NAMES ON A BIRTHDAYFUCKINGCAKE. NO FIVE YEAR OLD CAN SPELL THAT> for god's sake--they're not a handbag, they're a CHLID.

Sorry. I don't dislike kids, but I abhor most parents :)

I've got a saying: I'd much rather regret never having a child, than to regret having a child.

[Nobody]

10. I'm not maternal either

and the biological time clock is a myth. I'm in my late 30s and have no regrets over never having had a child. What me desperate? No way.

Ugh.

I've gotten mostly reactions like "you horrible MONSTER you" expressions (though most people are too cowardly to come right out and say it to my face) than the pitying looks you seem to be getting.

I think there are more women like us out there and I think deep down society knows it. I have friends whose mothers disliked small children and continued to dislike children after having had several.

I'm sure you've heard the phrase "but that's so UNNATURAL!" in regards to a woman doing something profitable, interesting, exciting, by herself, not involving a man, or not involving small children. My answer to taht is this: If it's so unnatural, why do you have to force me not to do it?

[REP]

13. Caternal Instinct, Perhaps

I like cats. I can't stand to be around babies/toddlers/children, and I never have.

Whenever I hear the "You'll change your mind" I usually reply that that's unlikely as Alzheimer's doesn't run in my family. (I was childfree long before my kidneys were found to be incompatible with pregnancy).

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Rita Rudner

Said something once to the effect that she and her husband were trying to decide between having a baby and getting a dog and opted for the dog because it was better to have your carpet ruined than your life.

I love my 2 doggies and my kitty and they are all the kids I'll ever want. And yes, my carpet is a disaster.:-)

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[REP]

12. You've Seen This, Right?

http://www.cfpersonals.com/bingo/index.php

(I'm "REP" everywhere, by the way.)

[Hello_Kitty]

14. LOL!!!

That's excellent :rofl:

[REP]

15. There's a Drinking Game Variant

In some situations, though, playing the drinking version could cause liver failure. Such as nearly any thread on this site discussing ill-behaved children or the childfree.

[Heddi]

18. Oh! That's great

Oh I'd win at BINGO within 20 minutes. Seriously....

oh
my
god

[Heddi]

17. Snotleigh and Mystayke. SUPER FUCKING DUPER

Yeah. I've been told I'm selfish. I've been told that I'll never "mature" fully until I have children. That I'll never be a 'complete' woman until I have children.

It's been insinuated that I don't have a family because I don't have children---uh, what about my fucking HUSBAND? What's he--chopped fucking liver? He *IS* my family.

I've been told that I'll never know "true" love until I get the love that only a child can give. Or that I'll never be TRULY responsible until I'm responsible for another person.

It's all fucking empty platitudes. MOST of those comments came from a friend of mine--29 years old, on her 3rd marriage and 2nd child by 2 different men. Had child #1 after she got married to husband #2 (a guy she only knew for 6 months before getting married). Had the kid because she was having 'marriage problems' and thought little Dr. Phil would make things better.

whoops. That didn't happen.

So she got divorced to hubby #2, single parent, hooks up with soon-to-be husband #3 while still legallly married, got knocked up by him before marriage, now she's going into labour any day, still not married, and not sure if this guy is going to 'work out in the long run" and is having 2nd thoughts about child #1 AND child #2.

oi vey.

But SHE is more responsible because her uterus swoll up to the size of a watermellon twice. SHE is more of a "woman" because she performed a basic biological function.

big
fucking
deal.

I take a shit every day---hey! I'm a super person because my bowels function! Whoopde do!!! Look at me! I'm a REAL human because I can urinate! Woohoo!!! Look! I perform biological functions! I'm a MARTYR.

She says that, by not being a parent, i don't REALLY know what stress is like...all this shit. I tell her that perhaps she's having stress because she's got 1 1/2 kids that she now regrets having AND resents their presence because it intereferes with her fucking around time. She even has said on NUMEROUS occasions that her greatest fantasy is waking up one morning, taking child #1 to daycare, dropping ex-hubby #2 off at work, going home, packing her shit, and moving away and not telling either of them where she is.

yeah. mother of the fucking year.

But i'm a half a person because I've not squirted out 14 babies by the time I'm 30..:eyes:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nobody]

20. I'd like to add a furthermore to that

Furthermore...

Those that are responsible parents are also those that recognize that not everyone can be a responsible parent nor should they.

Those of us who opted out of parenting are doing the world a service by not becoming parents.

I speak only for myself now: I'm doing my share of keeping the world's population down, preventing my lack of patience from escalating into me doing something I'd hate myself forever for.(I do not ever condone or excuse child abuse and I lack the patience to always and I do mean ALWAYS be gentle with my own) I see other people each day who meet the high standards I set for myself and I know myself well enough that I couldn't do it myself.

Child rearing is a huge responsibility. Why people would rather see a teenage girl trying to raise a child she isn't ready for than for her to abort and protect her own health and THEN IF SHE WANTS TO LATER become a mother baffles me. No, it doesn't, really. It's not about women's health or women's capability to take on responsibility, it's about recognizing that women, as well as men, are equally valuable human beings and that women, as well as men, are equally entitled to decide for themselves how best to balance their own and society's interests.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[politicat]

25. I got the "my mistake changed my life" argument from my tenant....

After the curtain climber literally ruined the carpet, sprayed inkjet refill ink on the walls, and broke several curtain rods.

I remember blinking at her (the discussion had come up, for ghod knows why, when I was giving her the final bill for cleaning and restoration of the property....)

It took all I could do not to say, "The reason I don't want children is because you're a perfect example of a woman who should have gone with her gut instinct."

Abortion rights are never about the majority; they're always about the exception to the rule because there is no such thing as a standard pregnancy. No two women ever have identical conditions.

[fudge stripe cookays]

23. Nothing like a Heddi post...

to make my day!

I think we're living parallel lives, hon!

Married 5 years, he had a vasectomy right after we did it, and we now have a wonderful cat and dog, a house, and a great life together.

Why the hell would I want to screw that up by having kids? I have absolutely no maternal instinct.

We thank heavens every day for being able to call our own shots for our lives.

FSC

[Heddi]

26. aw thanks :)

I really want one of us to get sterlized, but I'm just not 100% sure that we won't change out minds in the future. I'm happy getting my 4-times-a-year depo shot---it's permanent but reversable should I just wake up one morning and say OH MY GOD I WANT A BABY RIGHT NOW...which won't happen.....but you know....always leave a door open blah blah blah

My cat is my child. My mice are my children. My fish are my children. I"m lax enough about changing the cat-box....poor baby would have shitty diapers for days because mommy's too busy DU'ing to hassle with the pampers :)

Oh yeah. And without kids, we wouldn't be able to wake up one day and decide to take a 2 week trip to Europe. We wouldn't have been able to move SO easily 3,000 miles across country. We wouldn't have been able to think about studying and living in the Virgin Islands. We both wouldn't be able to be in school at the same time. We'd have to pay more for a 2bd house/apartment. We'd have to make sure to live in a 'safe' neighborhood.

As of now, we can sleep in late, stay up late, drink til we puke, smoke tons of reefer, and leave shards of glass and rusty nails lying about the floor. I mean, I'd have to, like, CLEAN UP THE NAILS if we had a kid....what a killjoy THAT would be :)

[Iris]

24. what about the latest trend

3 or 4 kids right in a row. Eek!!!

[Heddi]

27. eek is right

My vagina hurts just thinking about that :shudder:

[MountainLaurel]

22. Not to Reich Wingers

As the chant goes: "Pro-life is a lie, you don't care when women die."