Is Cassel better than Brady, at this stage in their careers? Without the cheating.

[IndianaJones]

Throw out the advantage Brady had with the cheating of his coach and assuming said coach no longer cheats.

He's definitely more mobile. And he will be a free agent end of this year. What will NE do?

[hughee99]

1. I'm not sure if he's better, but if he doesn't win the SB

Cassel will be gone and Brady will be the NE QB next year.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. um

no

[DaveinMD]

3. no

Brady is just about the best QB to ever play the game.

[trumad]

4. Joe the Plumber could have put up those numbers against the Phins

The Phins secondary is awful and will be top priority this upcoming off-season for Parcells and his coaches. They've made quite a few average QB's look like Tom Brady this season.

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Sort Of How I Feel About Yesterday's Bears Game

Geez, St. Louis is just TERRIBLE! Geez, it seems like it would be hard NOT to run for 100 yards against them.

They've got holes everywhere. They're braintrust, unlike your sea mammals, can't be looking to plug one deficiency, though.

That team stinks top to bottom, left to right, and back to front!

No wonder the stadium has only been 70% of capacity this year.

If the Bears had lost that game to that team, i would have quit watching until next year.
The Professor

[BOSSHOG]

5. Now Indy thats one big assumption

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

8. Technically it is not retarded...

Isn't it beneficial for the offense to know the defensive play calling?

[Redbear]

7. Early Tom Brady didn't have Randy Moss

Cassel is a fascinating story though.

[Alter Ego]

10. I have to admit I was one of Cassel's major detractors--from what I saw of him,

he was really pathetic. But I guess all he needed was playing time, some exposure, and some offensive talent to support him. Now I don't cringe when I see him jog onto the field for an offensive series.

[Upton]

11. Cassel has yet to prove anything

let him win a SB, then ask again. BTW, to suggest that Brady and the Patriot's success is due primarily to "cheating" sounds like the sour grapes of a Patriot hater with no basis in reality.

[IndianaJones]

12. knowing the oppositions plays would be an advantage. are you denying the cheating...

or just saying that it wasn't a big deal?

[Upton]

13. I'm saying it's much ado about nothing

Brady is a Hall of Fame QB, are you denying that or attributing his success to "cheating.?"

[IndianaJones]

14. I think his coach cheated extensively. I think he benefited from that cheating.

I think he will enter the HOF and he should....and I think there should be detailed explanations of the circumstances under which he won championships, in other words, with the help of cheating.

I think if he played for a team that was not coached by a cheater, he would have fewer rings.

[Upton]

15. That's ridiculous

your obvious dislike of the Patriots is clouding your judgment. Brady is clutch, big game clutch, it's an intangible that can't be taught or learned, no matter what the circumstances.

Do you really think the Patriots are the only team in the NFL that has tried to gain an edge by skirting the rules?

[IndianaJones]

16. whats ridiculous? that he knew the oppositions plays?

I don't like or dislike the Patriots. Thats why I can objectively say that their coach is a cheater and the team benefited from his cheating.

The Patriots didn't try to gain an edge. They did. What other teams are we talking about?

[BOSSHOG]

21. Could it be possible

that your "like" of the Patriots is clouding your judgement? Or is it only detractors that have judgement problems? If my team (Eagles or Saints, take your pick) gained an edge by cheating I wouldn't be on chat boards talking about peoples judgement, I'd let my teams headshed know how fucking despicable I thought their actions were and insist they ask for more punishment then the league might put forth.

[Upton]

22. My team is not the Patriots

I'm a 49er fan. Therefore, I can state objectively that all this talk of "cheating" sounds more like a 6th grade playground than anything else. Perhaps you should worry more about the judgment of Andy Reid and the poor play of the Eagles....or were the Ravens cheating last week?

[BOSSHOG]

23. Billicheck cheated

there's nothing sixth grade about that. The Eagles are horrible this year and I'm not worried about a thing as long as no chicanery is involved. I have no idea whether the Ravens were(are) cheating, I doubt they needed to to win Sunday. Since I'm not a Patriot Fan and based on your logic I am talking objectively as well. Talk of cheating relative to a coach who admitted such is good for the sport. I guess Barry Bonds homers were all steroid free. No sense in bringing his record into any sports conversation. And I guess my alma mater, the University of Arkansas which got caught cheating relative to their Track and Field Program should be of no concern to those who think integrity in sports is a pretty good thing. They lost (at least) three national championships, I wish it were more and told the (former) athletic director so.

[hughee99]

30. Really, you didn't think the U of A was punished enough?

Because I recall having a discussion on this exact topic with you and was left with the impression that you felt the U of A was sufficiently punished when it was stripped of two T&F national championships, and that you felt coach McDonnell's only crime was making a stupid hire. Maybe I'm just "misremembering" it all, though...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=215x72172

[BOSSHOG]

31. Compared to

the chicanery of billichick and what he did to his sport the Hogs should have gotten another national championship. As a stand alone my alma maters actions were wrong and an embarrassment, the NCAA considered the punishment enough, I would have buried them further to ensure when the next chucklehead who chooses to do such a thing, at UA or any other institution, next year or 20 years from now they will think twice or three times. McDonnel's only crime was making a stupid hire but he was wrong and he was punished. Compared to billichick, Mcdonnel is a candidate for sainthood and his career can be held up to other coaches to emulate. I think the best thing for the NFL would be to ban the likes of billichick from ever coaching again. He's a cancer regardless of what his apologists say. I guess its the old Navy guy coming out in me but wrong is wrong and if ya ain't punished then chances are it will (or is) happening again. Chump change ain't punishment. Not even a slap on the wrist. I think it reflects poorly on Patriot Nation that they haven't taken it upon themselves to run him out of town. I guess winning is everything.

[Forkboy]

17. They're 24 - 5 since the Jets game at the start of last year.

Maybe there was more to their success than cheating.

[IndianaJones]

18. certainly...several HOF'ers. but the coach did cheat and cast some doubts in peoples minds. nt.

[trumad]

19. See---here is the thing about cheating---especially when you are caught...

Maybe their continued success is because they're still cheating.... ya never know....

It was stupid for Bill B. to do it and he will be forever tarnished for it and his fans will have to defend him forever as well.

Plus---it gave smacktalkers a big old button that we instantly push to get you Patsie fans all in an uproar---as witnessed above.

HE HE!

[Forkboy]

25. And ya never know, maybe their continued success isn't due to cheating.

I do agree with you that it was stupid to do (beyond stupid, in fact), but there's zero indication or proof that they are still cheating. The ones who think so certainly can do so, but I posit that those people clutch to that because they usually root for sucky teams, teams that the Pats have beaten about the head and shoulders, or both, and in every sport the best teams are hated for being the best. Fans rarely have the inward looking ability to admit the role that jealousy does play in it, but it's there. It's not the only factor, but a factor nonetheless, and quite often the motivating one (why do you think I hate the Canadiens so much?). Look at the Cubs. They never win shit, and the only people who hate them are Cubs fans. :)

Let me make it clear. I'm not defending the cheating and never have (if you remember, I was one of the few that thought the sentence wasn't tough enough), but I will defend the team's performance since then, especially absent any evidence of cheating outside of your own mind.

And lastly, you wouldn't be capable of causing an uproar short of running across the Canes field naked during a national broadcast (hint hint lol). Besides, all someone has to do is bring up the Gators and the Hurricanes and you go into spasms, so you might want to rethink the whole button pushing thing... :P

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Any Supporting Information?

We know about the taping of Jet's signals. We know the taping of the Rams practice was a lie. Where's the evidence of "extensive" cheating? Some of what we heard was true. Some of what we heard was false. What's your definition of "extensive"? And are really naive enough to think that this behavior is isolated to New England? Come on!
GAC

[trumad]

24. OK--- let's go the other route

He did cheat right? and he was caught right? So prove to us that he did not extensively cheat. I think it is the cheaters that should prove they didn't do a lot of it and have stopped doing it. Why? Uh, because why trust a cheater?

[ProfessorGAC]

26. You Make The Claim, You Provide The Evidence

I made no claim. I just asked for evidence. If i make no claim, there's no evidence to provide. There is no evidence for a claim that wasn't made.

Nice try, Trumad. But, this is on you!
GAC

[trumad]

27. Oh really--- I claim he cheated...

The NFL claims he cheated. The Patriots admitted they cheated. The Pat's lost a 1st rounder and a half million bucks---far to little as far as I'm concerned.

You try to rationalize by saying they only cheated a little..... I am simply asking you to prove it was er... just a little.

Do you really think it was just the Jets game.... too funny.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Repeating: And I'll Do It Slowly

I.Made.No.Claim! Which part of that don't you understand.

I asked for proof that they are habitual cheaters.

You've got nothing. You know it. I know it.

You're getting tedious now.

Simply admitting you had no evidence beyond what the NFL already acknowledged would have been sufficient.

But, that would require honesty. Alas, no such sentiment will be forthcoming from you.

GAC

[bigwillq]

29. No.

I don't think so.

[Iggo]

32. Yes.

Hey! Who threw that?

[joeybee12]

33. Here's what I got to say to this...

:puke: :puke: :puke: