Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Boxing: Photos from Saratoga Springs

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Sports Donate to DU
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:49 AM
Original message
Boxing: Photos from Saratoga Springs
Here are a few photos from the 7-25-08 fight card in Saratogo Springs. I'll start with a couple of Ray Joval. The first is of him and my son, as he was coming to the SS City Center; the second is of him after the fight. After losing to Buddy McGirt, Jr., the 39 year old gave a moving speech in the ring, announcing his retirement. He noted that boxing is a sport where "old energy" must give way to "new energy." He is a true gentleman, both inside and outside the ring.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nagy Aguilera
is the 22 year old heavyweight who beat Gary Wilcox in the opening bout on ESPN. We've seen his two most recent bouts. His record is 9-0, with 6 KOs. He won the NYS GG twice, and hits very hard. I think he should learn the old Cus D'Amato "peek-a-boo," so that he can deliver those hard punches faster and more accurately against more experienced competition in the professional ranks.

He is seen below with my son. As these photos show, it was a fun night for me, as I was able to introduce my son to a lot of the fighters there:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Two guests:
Former heavyweight contenders Lou Savarese and Gerry Cooney were introduced between fights. I used to watch Lou fight at the Broome County Arena in Binghamton in the late '80s and early '90s. He later fought tough guys, including George Foreman, Buster Douglass, Michael Grant, Mike Tyson, Tim Witherspoon, and Evander Holyfield.

Gerry Cooneyis best know for his classic war with Larry Holmes. He also fought Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, Michael Spinks, and George Foreman.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Lou Savarese:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Gerry Cooney:

I had a chance to talk with Gerry away from the ring. A few fans were being rather obnoxious, including one who grabbed Gerry's wife. Cooney is a really big, strong guy. He did not seem to appreciate the lack of boundries that drunk fans have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Cooney looks great---
What's he up to now-a-days?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. He lives in Fanwood, NJ.
He is active in the efforts to help boxers: (1) Gerry helped start JAB, the first real attempt to form a boxer's union, to protect their interests from greedy and crooked promoters and managers; and (2) He is active in FIST, the Fighters' Initiative for Support & Ytaining, which helps retired fighters transition into the work force. He is also involved in community-based efforts to end domestic violence. I always thought highly of him as a boxer; my respect for him is even greater since he retired and became an activist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bulldogge Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. If
I had known that was Gerry Cooneys wife I would have never been so obnoxious. (grin) It was a great night though, the atmosphere was one of a kind, the crowd was electric, they were deafening at points (standing room only). All the fights were well fought, even by the up and coming fighters who were getting their first taste of the spotlight. Glad we were able to share the experience.

I agree about all the positive comments made about Atlas also, the guy is class.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Obnoxious can be underrated
I've been to plenty of smaller fight cards and the memorable ones are due to fan activity. Well done.

Damn, I'm generally in Saratoga this time of year. Couldn't make it this time. I'll have to check on the fight cards in future years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Right.
The behavior of the crowd is an important factor in determining how much people enjoy the fight card. Along with the quality of the fights, it stands out in how one remembers the night later on.

I think there are usually several "crowds" at each fight, including the smaller audiences. These groups often overlap. One of the most significant factors is the divide between those who are sober, and those who are intoxicated. The first group includes those who don't drink alcohol at all, as well as those who enjoy a few beers. The second group includes people who should not be behind the wheel after the fights.

There are also groups including the "hard core" boxing fans; the family and friends of the fighters; the people who have a passion for many sports, including boxing; and those who have a passion for watching violence from a safe distance, and believe that the price of their ticket entitles them to witness bloodshed. Each one of those sub-groups will have individuals who are sober and who are intoxicated. For a variety of reasons, it is the last group that tends to consume massive quantities of alcohol, become convinced that they are far smarter than they are, and act in the most obnoxious of ways.

My son finds that he prefers not to sit near the family members of fighters who are in the ring. He finds it distracting. I sometimes find it hard not to laugh at some of the things that some family members yell during a fight, but I have never found it uncomfortable to be sitting near them (except years ago, when the mother of a fighter I trained entered the ring to strike the referee with her pocket book).

As I've said on previous threads, I think that college classes studying the psychology of crowds should take field trips to boxing matches.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I thought that
the fights that were not shown on ESPN were more exciting than the two co-features.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. Teddy Atlas:

"Atlas -- From the Streets to the Ring: A Son's Struggle to Become a Man" is my son's favorite book. It was before we went to Saratoga Springs, and it surely is now that Teddy autographed it.

We had a chance to have a long conversation with Teddy. He talked to my son about his experience in the Golden Gloves, and how to translate those lessons into his approach in college. Teddy and I talked about Cus D'Amato, and especially when Cus trained Eugene "Cyclone" Hart in the early 1970s.

The ESPN crew invited my son and I to hang out with them at ringside. Although we only had the "general admission" tickets, we thought it would be rude to pass up such a kind invitation. We went back and forth, from ringside to our cheap seats, throughout the night.

We were joined by another DUer there, who is a fight fan.

For over two years, Teddy has taken an interest in the boxing-related medical issues my oldest brother is dealing with. It can be a dangerous sport, and Teddy is recognized as the leader in the brotherhood of ex-fighters. In the last round of the main, Teddy said hello to my brother, and gave him words of encouragement. My brother and a friend, watching the ESPN FNF in his living room, were thrilled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks a lot, H2O Man
The fighters active and retired in your photos seem to be real gentlemen who were kind and respectful to you and your son. That's good to see. And Teddy Atlas is a very classy guy, my favorite boxing announcer. The gesture he made to your brother is very touching. There's a reason so many people like Teddy Atlas and it isn't just about his knowledge of boxing and his ability to communicate it on television. He has real class.

By the way, forgive me for raising a question extraneous to your post, but will you be posting your take on the Cotto-Margarito fight? I'd like to read your learned assessment. Does Margarito have Cotto's number? Could Cotto have adjusted and fought differently or is he just too small to beat Margarito in a rematch? And how do you see the welterweight division playing out after this stunning win by Margarito?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It was a classic fight.
We only had four people here last night. That surprised me, because I expected a lot more. I thought the fight was about the best in boxing, and had invited lots of people over.

As I said before, I thought that Cotto had to be favored on paper. But a few people (including here on DU) said that while true, they thought an upset was in the air. So, by fight-time, when we went through our ritual of "final predictions" here, I was one of three picking Margarito, with one friend sticking with Cotto.

The first round didn't surprise me, because Margarito starts slow. By the end of the second round, I said that if Margarito could keep that pace up -- as he said he would do a couple days ago -- then he would stop Cotto late. It takes a lot of energy to move the way Cotto did, and he wasn't able to get any rest during any of the rounds. Margarito's legs weren't going to wear out moving forward, at anywhere near the same pace Cotto's would.

Unlike Jim L., as the next few rounds went by, I didn't think Cotto landed the more effective punches. He certainly landed the cleaner punches, and he was winning some rounds. But he really didn't go to the body -- because you can't body-punch moving backwards, especially when you've made a career of planting your feet and digging in.

Cotto was punching up towards Margaito's head. His plane of power is at his own shoulder heighth and below (especially the hook to the body). Trainers have fighters throw jabs etc "high" on the bag, because it tires your arms out quicker. Adding it to the foot movement, I thought Cotto was making a mistake.

Margarito was landing uppercuts and other hard shots. While not as "clean" or "crisp," they were more effective. If you watch the film, you'll see Cotto's feet move when he gets hit. His nose wasn't really bleeding onto his face, which might mean he swallowed blood. Either way, that wasn't the usual bloody nose. It looked painful. That can impact your vision, too: things get blurry for a second every time the nose gets hit.

The small cut on the eyelid distracted Cotto. He keep pawing at that, and the other eye. In between rounds, Cotto began to look progressively more discouraged, and Margarito just seemed totally focused. When one of the later rounds ended, my friend who picked Cotto said, "Finally -- Margarito looks tired!" I said he did, but that is to his advantage: he knows if he is tired, Cotto is far more tired. Margarito just seemed a lot bigger. Not just taller, but like he was a weight class or so bigger and stronger. And Cotto is strong as heck himself.

Max and Manny had figured out what was happening, when Jim still was favoring Cotto. But I thought the HBO crew did a good job. By the 8th and 9th round, it became a matter of time. Cotto was brave, and he tried to change the tide by blasting some serious combinations. He was still dangerous. He really hasn't been a guy with one-punch power as far as head shots, and Margarito obviously takes a great punch. But I thought Cotto might dig a hook into the ribs. I don't care who you are: after fighting 9 or 10 rounds, Cotto could hurt you with a body shot.

I don't think Cotto should fight him again too soon. It is hard to see him making the adjustments needed to make any real change. Maybe body shots? But he would have to expose himself to do it. Maybe wait until Margarito has a few fights, and see if he becomes overconfident again, and takes fights for granted, as he did with Williams. But taking time off is important for Cotto right now.

I think it is very unlikely Oscar de la Hoya will fight Margarito. So it will probably be another Williams fight. That would be interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Thanks
Interesting information to consider. It hadn't occurred to me that Cotto might be swallowing blood from the busted nose and that it could be affecting him. I agree that Cotto wasn't landing the types of shots he can land when he comes forward in his crouching style where he generates power from his back muscles and legs. Maybe Cotto should have fought on the inside and tried to get to Margarito's body, although it would have exposed him to those multiple punches that Margarito throws as you say. It might have also ended in a TKO but an early committment to bodywork might have been Cotto's only chance. Cotto probably doesn't have the power to hurt Margarito to the head, even if he sets himself and comes forward. And I think if you watch Margarito closely, he has a subtle way of moving his head with the punches to take a little of the sting off, in a kind of James Toneyish way.

Jim Lampley often cheerleads for one fighter over the other. He's got a great voice for boxing and a good style, but he tends to favor the house fighter (the guy who has regularly appeared on HBO) and this time it was pretty blatant.

I wish Oscar would fight Margarito. It would be a great way for him to go out on a high note in my opinion. They have about the same height and reach. Either Margarito would move up to 154 or Oscar would go down to 147. Or they could meet at a catch weight of 150. I think there would be no disgrace for Oscar to lose to the Tijuana Tornado and if he won, it would be a way of finishing with class. And Margarito certainly would have another reason to crank up his motivation, for a chance at a big pay day and glory. I think it would be a great fight. The idea of Oscar fighting Manny Pacquiao sounds like some kind of freak show to me, as Oscar is expecting Pacquiao to move up three weight classes in just two fights to 147.

Regarding Margarito, I know he's taken worse punishment in fights than the shots Cotto landed on him; the flush shots he took from a monster puncher like Cintron for example. I wonder though if even a guy with a steel head like Margarito can take too many more of these slug fests. He's thirty and he's been fighting since he was fifteen. Hopefully, he'll get a few good pay days in the limelight now because he seems like a nice man who has sacrified a good deal for his sport.

I'm anxious now to see the Zab Judah/Joshua Clottey fight. Clottey I think is an under-rated fighter and could be a dark horse in the welterweight division. He's never been knocked out and has only two losses. He appears to have only average power but he has a very good chin, good defense, and some boxing ability. He was beating Margarito in the first few rounds of their fight and suddenly stopped punching, supposedly because of a bad hand. A guy who can go 12 rounds with Margarito with a bad hand and not get knocked out I think might surprise a few people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. It looked like Lampley fell in love with Cotto, almost as much as Merchant loves Pacquiao.

While hearing his commentary from the 7-10th rounds, I was thinking, "is he watching the same fight?" You could see that Margarito was getting hit, but they were doing nothing to him - he was walking right through them. However, around the 6th and later every time Margarito connected you could see it affect Cotto.

Also, great pictures. Thank you for sharing them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. Great Pics.
Ray Joval always a class act. Gerry Cooney looks good. Thanks for sharing them with us. The Cotto/Margarito fight was fun. Think Cotto should have 'attempted' to crowd Margarito a bit more inside, stand his ground with his faster hands, and tried to get off a combination of shots (to the body) with some leverage, before retreating so quickly. He never really gained Margarito's respect as far as his punching power is concerned ....... so Margarito just kept coming forward. Not sure it would have helped to stem Margarito's relentless assault, maybe nothing would have that night....... Hats off to Margarito ...... and it seemed as though Cotto had no other choice in the end but to kneel to the better man that night. Cotto was spent, done.

I don't think Cotto will end up sitting the year out, and will return to the ring in November against a somewhat 'safe' opponent. To shake off this weekends disappointment.

Margarito ....... damn ..... who wants to fight that guy ??? Same old story for him. ;) ..... good to see he finally got his shot at the big time and do what quite a few expected he would in the lime light. 3 time Welterweight Champ now. Seems like his first to some degree ..... at least now he can say 'Hey look at me' !!!! And people will notice, now they have to. Peace.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Dec 12th 2017, 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Sports Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC